Why Buy American?

[SUPERCOUPE]

I believe, Jersey Jim, is having trouble finding actual businesses remaining to do the work. On the HAMB there are many qualified and skilled fabricators who can no longer find employment in their field. Might try posting a want ad there for fab shops. Maybe some of these small guys would be able to start up their own businesses with some work!

 

[RaceDeck1]

SUPERCOUPE - You are right, there are some great fabricator, machinists, tool makers and true craftsman in this country. The problem for most of the ones who no longer can work in their trade is that many companies have sent their tool, dies and mold making work overseas where they can have it done for much less.
We have a full machine shop where we have two fantastic tool & die craftsman who build all of our molds for our flooring products . I believe the quality and 'consistency' of their work can not be matched, Nor can their creativity when it comes to new technologies for process and finished products.

 

[brad d]

I believe the quality and 'consistency' of their work can not be matched, Nor can their creativity when it comes to new technologies for process and finished products.

yeah tooling for molds are tricky from china, many companies get them from china then re work them.. still cheaper. but in house is best.

 

[rsanter]

rsanter -

I don't think many Americans would want to park on and/or walk on the American flag. Maybe in California, but not back here in the Midwest. Call me old fashioned, but I would not.

I see your point
I was thinking of it from the view of promoting america and promoting the american flag and american cars.
I never claimed that the FREE idea was worth more than the price paid for it

bob

 

[rsanter]

rsanter - though I may not totally agree with you, I do believe that a USA manufacturer should make a better product at a fair price.
An example would be the choice I made this weekend - I was in Home Depot ( the modern day local hardware store) and was looking at two choices of adjustable wrenches, the one made in the USA was $13.99 and the Husky China version was $11.99
For me it was worth the $2.00 even though at a glance they looked almost identical. As a manufacturer I also know the China made wrench at $11.99 probably has twice the margin in it for the company & store...THey know the average customer will more than likely just grab the one that is cheaper.

in the case you site I would do the same thing. I would always rather have a quality USA product than a chineese product if I can afford it. the difference comes when I need a tool that I will use once or twice in the next couple of years and the american version is $300 and I can get one from HF that will get the job done for $30 even if it will only do it a few times before it dies.

the other point I make is that I will not buy an american product just because it is american. I want to buy a quality american product at a fair price. I think that it is the responsibility of american manufactures to supply us with a quality american product at a fair price if they are going to earn our loyalty and our dollars. if the american companies do this then they will be pushing out the china stuff from our market.

one case in point.
a couple of years ago when I worked for a plastics company, we used to outsource some of our products because of lack of machine time. we were getting bids from new vendors and several of them were based in china (which I did not like because 98% of our stuff was made here).
there was a company in the LA area that was price compeditive with the china bids we were getting IF you compair prices for a product delivered to our doorstep. I was impressed with their price and their capibility so it was a slam dunk to go with them.
their shop was clean and organized, and the quality was great at a very good price. I know we can do it here at a reasonable price and do it better, the US based companies need to get into gear and do it here for a good price and we can outdo china

bob

 

[Bo Heck]

Same for me.

I buy the best product I can afford. Sometimes it's German or Japanese or even Taiwanese.

90% of the time it's American, 1% of the time it's mainland China (paint brushes) but I'm only loyal to value and the ammount of sweat I have invested in each one of my dollars.

Even American manufacturers' aren't exempt from making garbage these days because everything is built to a price point, not to a spec.

I don't owe anyone anything other than an objective evaluation of the individual product they're offering me because that's all they're going to give me. THAT'S HOW CAPITALISM WORKS. No crying, no bail-outs, no tariffs.

All that said, there's no other country on earth I'd consider living in and FWIW I've never owned a foreign car (I like fast cars unfortunately and every one knows they only come from Italy or America... and I'm still a few years away from buying Italian.

You hit the nail on the head brother. Buying where your need of quality meets your price point is how capitalism works, and how it has worked to put us in the top spot in a global economy for years and years.

Some folks will only buy American, or they'll buy nothing. This is called Protectionism and it kills an economy. One nation cannot provide all the raw materials and end products that it needs. It's impossible, and it would be detrimental to try and naive to think it should be so. The US just like everyone else has to pick and choose what it can produce in the global economy and be competitive. Free trade benefits everyone, and yes, even trade with China. They sell us a TON of stuff, and they lend us a TON of money.

I will quote myself from another thread, this is my response to "Buy American, or buy nothing!" arguments.

This is the exact kind of thinking that led to the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 that PROLONGED the Great Depression. US protectionism does not help anyone. Buying American does not create jobs, I'm afraid to say. People here in the US have to work to sell these products, wherever they are made. In order to create manufacturing jobs here, taxes must be lowered for corporations and small business. And I'm not talking about these ridiculous "tax breaks" Obama has specified in his plans. I'm talking about permanent percentage cuts, not handouts. Corporations will build plants and factories where it's the cheapest to do so, and they, by far, employ the most folks, and produce the goods compared to small business. The only way to jumpstart the economy is to bring more of these jobs back here. They did jump overseas because we stopped buying their goods, they did it because the tax burden is less elsewhere. It's really time we instituted the Fair Tax but that's not likely to happen anytime soon with who we have in Washington now. Please do not misunderstand, I'm not criticizing your pride in your country. I would love to see more Made in America stickers, but on things I could actually afford. I do not support the UAW or any other union for that matter. I worked as a sort supervisor at UPS and it took me over 2 and a half years to get my sort to the #1 spot in the division when it could have taken me only a few months if it had not been for absurd union protection for sorry employees. I do not believe in a minimum wage, the employees will force the wage to a competitive number or the company will get crappy employees that will drive the company into the ground, problem solved. I DO believe in securing our borders and sending illegal aliens back to where they came. They are an immense drain on this country and are taking American jobs away from us. It's estimated there were 13 million illegals living here in 2007 with an average increase of 500,000 per year, so somewhere about 14 to 15 million now. I don't understand how this is accepted by anyone. I believe in the free market wholeheartedly, but the whole idea seems to be fading fast in our country. There are is a list a mile long of proven solutions to bringing jobs back to the US that Congress and especially the president lit on fire and threw away, never to be mentioned again. Sorry for the jack. We just spent $787 Billion on a bogus plan to "create or save up to 4 millions jobs." Does no one else see the lawyer-speak in this? For one, this is an immeasurable value, who's to say that this plan saved this job or that job. Unless you're talking about the banking sector, where we, as taxpayers, kept corrupt banks afloat, or we're saving the UAW jobs by direct bailouts. That's not the kind of job I want to be saving. That's not the way free markets work. Secondly, "up to 4 million" means 1 to 4 million. I do not believe the government should be in charge of job creation, or job saving. It's been tried before, it doesn't work. Roosevelt did it, prolonging the depression, Japan did it, prolonging their depression, socialists practice it, and what's kept us on top of all that? Capitalism. It works.

 

[jscoma47]

Glad to see this post.I am a proud union employee in this fine country, We all need to make an extreme effort to support the companies who proudly continue to produce their products is this country. I plan to purchase Race Deck after reading this post,as soon as my concrete is redone.Invest in the future of America by supporting American made products.I do my absolute best to only purchase American made , it takes a little longer to find it and may some times cost more, but as far as I am concerned it is more than worth it.
Thank you Race Deck for standing by this country.

 

[Bo Heck]

Hooray for Protectionism? read above post.

 

[brad d]

Went to Canadian Tire and picked up a 3 pack of funnels for 3.99$ And was shocked to see that they were made in the USA.. good on this company for making something that china can easily do, and keeping it in the USA and still making money off it.

 

[Shocker]

It is not protectionism when you buy the best product for the job. Racedeck is the best tile for garages.

 

[tatra]

actually noticing a lot more locally produced stuff myself lalty.........metal pails at work from canada.........guy asked why i was smiling and i just pointed to the lettering and being young he just shrugged...........still made me happy...........

 

[dpledford]

The Alchemist - You should have no issue whatsoever. If you look in our website photo gallery you will see many photos of lifts. see http://www.racedeck.com/racedeckgallery/index.html and go to photos 01 ,09 16 , 106 , 126 for a few examples of lifts and heavy loads

Racedeck:

I don't mean to highjack the post, but I was on your site looking at the gallery and is that '36 Terraplane pick up one of yours or a customers?

 

[Bo Heck]

It is not protectionism when you buy the best product for the job. Racedeck is the best tile for garages.

Of course its not, I never said that. Though there is a difference between, "I buy American". And "I buy the best."

 

[rednecklimo85]

Heres my take,

I've got a '99 dodge ram 1500, made in dodge city, mich. I also have a '07 Honda vtx 1300 made in Ohio(and yes it actually has enough American content to say made in USA). Both of those were made by(or assembled if you prefer) by blue collar Americans, employed in America, who are going to take there blue collar dollar and spend it in American stores to buy the stuff they need to provide for there family's. I hold this believe for anything, that yea maybe the parent company is from China or from India, but if its made here, there's a whole bunch of Americans getting paid, from the guy leading the day shift, to the guy cleaning the bathrooms at night

Now take this example. Take a Ford, or Chevy, or what ever that's based in USA but made in Mexico. The person sweeping the floors at the end of the night, takes his money, and spends it at Mexican stores. The only money that makes it back here, goes to a small group of high paid executives who's take most of that money and put it in the bank...

Whats the best option there?

 

[gryzynx]

First off, RaceDeck1 probably has written the best case for buying domestic product that can be made. Hats off to you sir, the effort from people like you will be what will save us from the current economic mess.

I've noticed in this and other threads that there still is a perception that the answer lies in protectionist economic policy. Lessons learned from the Great Depression of the 1930's would indicate otherwise. There is no guarantee that buying domestic will provide you with superior quality and value. As some are finding, the Chevrolet truck in your driveway may be made in Canada with Mexican components. My Subaru was built in Indiana. Such is the reality of the global marketplace. It will not go away and we will find ourselves on an increasingly small planet. Coastlines and imaginary lines drawn on the map do not make a case for protectionist economic policy. Trade unions in the USA also represent Canadian workers. Buying manufactured goods from overseas certainly affects domestic manufacturing negatively, but transportation and retail distribution will benefit. So where is the real devil here? I'd make a case for speculation and greed within the banking and oil industries coupled with the big business perception that the bottom line can always be improved as the primary culprits, but the same attitudes filter down into labour negotiation and even to our personal decisions in product purchases. In short, human nature will always be to improve our own lot first. Best course of action? Don't panic. Think about your purchases and the effect of your decision. Some products simply cannot be produced locally at a cost palatable to the consumer. Would you pay 2, 3, or 10 times the price to prop up unrealistic domestic business? Conversely, transportation of goods consumes huge amounts of energy and could be detrimental to the enviroment. Quality is always a concern, but don't assume that quality is directly linked to country of origin.

 

[patrick66]

...yup. It'll drive one nuts trying to figure out what's foreign, what's domestic, etc...
For a vehicle's final point of assembly, the first digit of the VIN correlates to:
1- USA
2- Canada
3- Mexico
5- USA
K- Korea
J- Japan

I forget what Europe's designation is... 4 perhaps? And I've encountered the H designation a few times as well - Hungary?

The number 4 is also USA. Six is Australia. W is Germany. H is not used as a first character anywhere in the world.

A link that explains EVERYTHING about 17-digit VINs: http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/VIN/WMI.html#ccode

# Position one represents the nation of origin, or the final point of assembly. Cars made in the U.S. start with 1, 4 and 5. Canada is 2, Mexico is 3, Japan is J, and Germany is W.
# Position two tells you about the manufacturer. For example, A is for Audi, B is for BMW, L is for Lincoln and N is for Nissan.
# Position three tells you about the make.
# Positions four through eight tell you about the car, such as the series, body type, restraint system, and engine code.
# Position nine is the check digit, a number from 0-9 or the letter X. Law enforcement officials can detect if you've tampered with the VIN by this character.
# The 10th digit gives you the vehicle's model year. The letters from B-X correspond to the model years starting with 1981, with Y bringing up the rear with model year 2000. There are no letters I, O or Q. Here's a list of the model years: B=81, C=82, D=83, E=84, F=85, G=86, H=87, J=88, K=89, L=90, M=91, N=92, P=93, R=94, S=95, T=96, V=97, W=98, X=99, Y=00. Beginning in model year 2001 the manufacturer's made it a little easier and made the VIN's 10th digit mirror the model year as follows: 1=2001, 2=2002, 3=2003, and so on through model year 2009. So if you are not sure about a vehicle's model year always double check the 10th digit of the vehicle's VIN.
# The letter or number in the 11th position indicates where the vehicle was assembled. For instance, 9 identifies that it was made in Detroit, Mich.
# The last 6 digits are the production sequence numbers.

 

[patrick66]

I would always rather have a quality USA product than a chineese product if I can afford it. the difference comes when I need a tool that I will use once or twice in the next couple of years and the american version is $300 and I can get one from HF that will get the job done for $30 even if it will only do it a few times before it dies.

bob

Maybe, but it might be that one time that cheapo Chinese tool fails and YOU die, or get injured, just because you wanted to save a few bucks. I'll spend the money right the first time, or if it is a tool I might use a few times, or just once, I'll go and rent it.

 

[sammerdog]

The number 4 is also USA. Six is Australia. W is Germany. H is not used as a first character anywhere in the world.

A link that explains EVERYTHING about 17-digit VINs: http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/VIN/WMI.html#ccode

Thanks for the link - the ol' alzheimer's kickin in - for some reason, an "H" designation kept popping up in my mind. I musta come into contact with too much aluminum over the years!

Some of the other designations brought back memories... the "9" series that started the ol' Brazilian made Ford CF7 & 8000 series straight trucks, the "I" designated Italian built Iveco's. Man, I played with some real **** trucks over the years....

 

[Bo Heck]

Heres my take,

I've got a '99 dodge ram 1500, made in dodge city, mich. I also have a '07 Honda vtx 1300 made in Ohio(and yes it actually has enough American content to say made in USA). Both of those were made by(or assembled if you prefer) by blue collar Americans, employed in America, who are going to take there blue collar dollar and spend it in American stores to buy the stuff they need to provide for there family's. I hold this believe for anything, that yea maybe the parent company is from China or from India, but if its made here, there's a whole bunch of Americans getting paid, from the guy leading the day shift, to the guy cleaning the bathrooms at night

Now take this example. Take a Ford, or Chevy, or what ever that's based in USA but made in Mexico. The person sweeping the floors at the end of the night, takes his money, and spends it at Mexican stores. The only money that makes it back here, goes to a small group of high paid executives who's take most of that money and put it in the bank...

Whats the best option there?

What do you think the banks do with it?

Regardless of that, you didnt go to mexico to buy the thing you went to a dealership in the states, run by Americans, where the guy who sweeps the floor and cleans the toilets is American and the so is the salesman, the management and up and up. So...I really don't see your point.

 

[Tom2]

You hit the nail on the head brother. Buying where your need of quality meets your price point is how capitalism works, and how it has worked to put us in the top spot in a global economy for years and years.

Some folks will only buy American, or they'll buy nothing. This is called Protectionism and it kills an economy. One nation cannot provide all the raw materials and end products that it needs. It's impossible, and it would be detrimental to try and naive to think it should be so. The US just like everyone else has to pick and choose what it can produce in the global economy and be competitive. Free trade benefits everyone, and yes, even trade with China. They sell us a TON of stuff, and they lend us a TON of money.

.

I used to think this way..but more recently find myself more and more in the "buy American" camp.

Yes, free trade is ideal in a perfect world. Every country does what they're best at, and everyone has more. Its a very simple economic concept we were taught in Microeconomics.

The problem with this is the outsourcing we're seeing today is an EXTREMELY one sided. We are doing more than just trading with another country - we are tranferring our wealth and strength directly to other countries - countries which do not have the best human rights records, and do not particularly like us. The US will not be a super-power 50 years from now. It will be China, Russia, and mid-East countries.

Unforunately, free-trade doesn't take into effect human rights, slavery, politics, long-term consequences, etc...


Having said that, I think the best way to balance the entire situation is to lower and simplify the US tax system. Corporate taxes are way too high in America. Then businesses will naturally want to stay in the country..The incentive to leave isn't worth quite as much.
Thats the way to do it.. Not "Were going to punish companies that outsource!" rhetoric we all hear at election time. All you're doing is driving more business away..

I agree with you on the minimum wage..Its completely pointless from an economic standpoint. I also support the Fair Tax. I am indifferent with Unions. I think theyre pretty unnecessary in most industries..but they served a purpose back in the day, and are still relevent in some sectors.

 

[Bo Heck]

I used to think this way..but more recently find myself more and more in the "buy American" camp.

Yes, free trade is ideal in a perfect world. Every country does what they're best at, and everyone has more. Its a very simple economic concept we were taught in Microeconomics.

The problem with this is the outsourcing we're seeing today is an EXTREMELY one sided. We are doing more than just trading with another country - we are tranferring our wealth and strength directly to other countries - countries which do not have the best human rights records, and do not particularly like us. The US will not be a super-power 50 years from now. It will be China, Russia, and mid-East countries.

Unforunately, free-trade doesn't take into effect human rights, slavery, politics, long-term consequences, etc...


Having said that, I think the best way to balance the entire situation is to lower and simplify the US tax system. Corporate taxes are way too high in America. Then businesses will naturally want to stay in the country..The incentive to leave isn't worth quite as much.
Thats the way to do it.. Not "Were going to punish companies that outsource!" rhetoric we all hear at election time. All you're doing is driving more business away..

I agree with you on the minimum wage..Its completely pointless from an economic standpoint. I also support the Fair Tax. I am indifferent with Unions. I think theyre pretty unnecessary in most industries..but they served a purpose back in the day, and are still relevent in some sectors.

Did you watch CPAC? I totally agree with what you're saying (except its macro-economics), we could make more and do more it is a matter of incentive instead of punishment and the Fair Tax would do wonders in that respect. But if that cant be done, at least lower the capital gains and corporate tax. Our imports do outweigh our exports and we could do a little to change a lot but...I don't think it's going to happen soon.

 

[Tom2]

Did you watch CPAC? I totally agree with what you're saying (except its macro-economics), we could make more and do more it is a matter of incentive instead of punishment and the Fair Tax would do wonders in that respect. But if that cant be done, at least lower the capital gains and corporate tax. Our imports do outweigh our exports and we could do a little to change a lot but...I don't think it's going to happen soon.

You know, I should have learned that in Macroeconomics, but it was actually in my Micro book (trading systems, etc)

I caught most of Rush's CPAC speech. It was excellent..If only the Republicans had someone who truly believed in conservative principals, and could articulate them clearly... It's a landslide everytime..

 

[Gustav_t]

I´m european and always buys european or american.
Problem is that a lot of american products isn´t represented here - or not very well.
I believe theres is a great market for high end US products here.

I´ve heard americans stating that europeans have turned their back on USA.
Not true - and we never will.

 

[dustym]

When a lot of you fly do you specify a Boeing jet over anything else?
Buy and Fly american.

 

[BooUrns!]

When a lot of you fly do you specify a Boeing jet over anything else?
Buy and Fly american.

Are you trying to be sarcastic? No one will 'specify' what type of plane they fly aboard. Carriers use certain types of planes for certain routes, all dependent on volume and frequency and distance.

Why don't you try and specify a steak next time the stewardess offers you a choice between the fish and chicken...