Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?

[2ndGearRubber]

I would guess more laymen would know TAG than Patek Phillipe but I see your point and you're right. Most people wouldn't know a Royal Oak from my Seiko but everyone knows Rolex.

It's funny that the brands most people likely think of as the very top end of watches are actually on the low to mid range of mechanical/swiss/fine watches.

I'm sure in certain circles the more exclusive brands are better known and also largely bought as status symbols. I'm picturing a scene much like the one with the business cards in American Psycho.

Snap On, nickle chrome, 1/2, standard open end, and that's the long pattern.

"Oh, very nice"

 

[CGarage]

I'm sure in certain circles the more exclusive brands are better known and also largely bought as status symbols. I'm picturing a scene much like the one with the business cards in American Psycho.

They are not, and that is the point.

 

[garfunkle24]

They are not, and that is the point.

Could you please clarify?

 

[dchawk81]

I think all coffee *****.

What tool company should I be buying from?

Starbucks. It's always packed with tools.

 

[dchawk81]

Wait, you tried expensive coffee and decided cheap coffee was just as good? Shocking! Nope, no irony to see here. Move along. These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.

Yeah and? Tasting better and being worth the money aren't really the same thing.

 

[dchawk81]

"We secretly switched his Snap-On Dual 80 with mountain grown Folger's Crystals..."

Fair trade.

 

[mreisner]

Pretty much everybody knows the Rolex name. They used to be a great tool watch especially for divers and Pilots  and now they're an excellently marketed fairly well made but nowhere near the top of the line watch.

 

[JeepYJ]

How about a SnapOn watch?

Snap-on Tool Seiko Watch - Limited Edition - New in Box SSX23P105 | eBay

<p>Snap on Limited edition watch </p><p>Promo Item</p>

www.ebay.com

 

[zendriver]

Coffee has taste?

Almost sounds like pining for chocolate flavored heroin.

 

[msharley]

Coffee has taste?

Almost sounds like pining for chocolate flavored heroin.

 

[zendriver]

Can I say I do get a bit annoyed by the folks who announce they’ve discovered the Secret Magical Chinese Tool Store where the tools are exactly the same as Snap On for 1/5 the price etc. I’ve also noticed a detail that these pronouncements of Snap On equivalency come from folks who just purchased the magical Chinese tools, not people who’ve spent a year or 10 years with them.

Nothing secret about it.

I still have and use almost every tool I have ever purchased from HF, same impact sockets for over 10 years. They seem to work like impact sockets. Maybe I'll upgrade someday.

I have some older 1970's Snap On as well. Hanging in there, but worth 5x as much?

Not at all, IMO.

 

[Cruzan80]

Garmin, naturally, is a Swiss company

I did not know that!

Honestly, while I appreciate fine detail craftsmanship, the ergonomics on this are what make it work so well. When you go into the screen/menu (anything besides date/steps), the watch hands go to 3&9, and the screen is on the top/bottom. The adjustment for the hands is easy to get to and fine tune (they used stepper motors, so sometimes they can "lose" their place slightly), the dials auto-adjust to timezones from your phone connection, etc. Has heartrate stuff, weather and all the other fancy smartphone things. The dual batteries as I mentioned, etc. The only "weird" thing is a programming glitch where if the digital part dies due to low battery, the first time you hit your step goal after charging, it tells you that you have a 665 day streak. Day 2 onwards works fine, but it takes me a sec to remember I don't have a 2yr streak going...

Colleagues have called it a "stealth" smartwatch.

 

[neophyte]

People get irrationally angry over anything on the Internet, but what you’re seeing is likely mostly a form of “astroturfing” with Harbor Freight - either paid people or bots comparing their lower cost tools to the top product in the market in a favorable manner to boost Harbor Freight sales. Snap-On’s tools, or at least most of them, are generally regarded as some of the best tools available anywhere. They have brand recognition that others don’t have which makes the comparison more salient.

HF isn’t we only hand tool seller to astroturf favorable reviews on social media - Kniped famously did so between 2019-2022, especially on Reddit.

Harbor Freight tools are relatively affordable, meaning some random YouTuber can easily purchase, Harbor Freight’s “Top of the Line” Icon brand, and test the tools, even if he’s making practically nothing from a low Youtube subscriber count.
If the YouTuber is an actual mechanic, he can still purchase Snap-On tools, and comparable Icon tools, while not spending much more than just the Snap-On tools cost, and he at worst winds up with an extra set of tools if his Snap-On tools get repo’d, or stolen, or he has tools he can loan to coworkers or friends if they need them.
Harbor Freight does post youtube videos showing some tools on the HF website with the tool listings, and maybe HF gives people’s whose videos the use some free tools.
There are plenty of YouTubers who just do unboxing videos, or product review videos, and a lot of those videos likely have nothing to do with the brand and item being reviewed, other than the reviewer being able to afford to buy the item for review.
Plenty of woodworking magazine’s seem to used to get free items from manufacturers when doing tool tests, judging from comments that were sometimes in the tool test articles, so some free tools is nothing new.

 

[neophyte]

I really don't understand the often passionate hate towards Snap-on. They are expensive, but they are also good. They may not be the best in every category, but in general I can trust that their tools are good quality. They also have more variety of tools than some of the other brands I hold in high regard like Hazet or Stahlwille. And if I can find their tools that I want for fair price I buy them. The quarterly flyers here have good discounts, up to 45% off, which drops them to same price level or lover than the two brands I mentioned before. I also buy them used. I rather buy used Snap-On than local hardware store brands (of unknown COO). It doesn't mean that the local hardware store brands are bad. It's just a personal preference. It's ok to shop around buying specialized tools from multiple brands. I really don't understand why people think they have to justify not buying Snap-on. Also people don't need to make having Snap-on tools into a cult religion like crossfit or veganism.

What makes me rage is that their pliers and cutters are way too stiff from the factory. They are like reverse Captains of Crush grippers.

 

[neophyte]

I would guess more laymen would know TAG than Patek Phillipe but I see your point and you're right. Most people wouldn't know a Royal Oak from my Seiko but everyone knows Rolex. I concede that my supposition was too broad, although given Rolex sales vs everyone else I might not have been THAT far off!

It's funny that the brands most people likely think of as the very top end of watches are actually on the low to mid range of mechanical/swiss/fine watches.

I'm sure in certain circles the more exclusive brands are better known and also largely bought as status symbols. I'm picturing a scene much like the one with the business cards in American Psycho.

There was a high end Jewelry and House goods store in Philadelphia a couple decades ago. (Since closed).
Rolex was sort of the upper mid range option.
The high end brands were Vacheron Constantin, and Breguet, amongst others.
These weren’t even jewel encrusted watches, were part of the value was in the inset stones, which they likely had, but which were not kept with the general watches.

 

[Meursault74]

I am a fellow coffee and tea addict myself and spend similar amounts, the worst being the Starbucks habit a few times a day, but trying to give my business to more independently owned coffee shops instead of Starbucks.

I was given about $200 in Starbucks gift cards a few years ago. I just finished the last of it. I drink coffee everyday, but I make it myself. I didn't buy any made coffee drink from Starbucks , I bought their beans and then ground them at home.

I didn't find their beans any better or worse than other beans I've purchased. I was surprised, I'd thought they should taste better given the fact that they were free to me. I guess I'll see what the other brands are tasting like these days now. In the past there wasn't much difference as long as I bought the whole beans.

For the record, I think a $5 cup of coffee is more outrageous than any Snap On tool price. See, I can make a cup of coffee very easily for a few dimes. Forging a wrench, not so much.

 

[neophyte]

I was given about $200 in Starbucks gift cards a few years ago. I just finished the last of it. I drink coffee everyday, but I make it myself. I didn't buy any made coffee drink from Starbucks , I bought their beans and then ground them at home.

I didn't find their beans any better or worse than other beans I've purchased. I was surprised, I'd thought they should taste better given the fact that they were free to me. I guess I'll see what the other brands are tasting like these days now. In the past there wasn't much difference as long as I bought the whole beans.

For the record, I think a $5 cup of coffee is more outrageous than any Snap On tool price. See, I can make a cup of coffee very easily for a few dimes. Forging a wrench, not so much.

Which beans did you buy?
With Starbucks, you usually have to find a particular bean mix, or region of origin bean you like, and stick with those.
For instance, I hate the Pike Place Roast beans mix, but find the Komodo Dragon blend tasty.

 

[Meursault74]

Which beans did you buy?
With Starbucks, you usually have to find a particular bean mix, or region of origin bean you like, and stick with those.
For instance, I hate the Pike Place Roast beans mix, but find the Komodo Dragon blend tasty.

First one was Italian Roast. I found it was roasted too much for my taste. Not bad, but once was enough and I did finish that pound. I then got the Espresso Roast and stuck with that one. Once I even got decaf espresso roast (gasp) because they didn't have the normal one. I couldn't tell the difference in taste. I don't have a caffeine addiction either as I usually only have one cup a day so I didn't feel any "withdrawal" .

In most other brands I tend to take the Italian or French roast (the darker roasts), From my limited experience with Starbucks, it seems their scale is skewed a bit.

 

[dchawk81]

Every time I deliver or pick up from the local Starbucks roasting plant, I get nauseous. It's gross and it stinks. The methane from the local landfill is easier to take.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Nothing secret about it.

I still have and use almost every tool I have ever purchased from HF, same impact sockets for over 10 years. They seem to work like impact sockets. Maybe I'll upgrade someday.

I have some older 1970's Snap On as well. Hanging in there, but worth 5x as much?

Not at all, IMO.

Those statements don't really agree though. All you're proving is you bought a suitable tool from HF. I don't think people argue that anything but the lowest quality offering from harbor freight are serviceable tools. Many of their tools are arguably "good" tools regardless of price, on performance alone. The Kabo made long pattern flex head wrenches come to mind. I've had excellent results with their impact extensions.

It has nothing to do with them "being exactly the same", unless one is just assuming the same work should be possible to complete with another brand.

 

[65k10]

It takes a village to fix a car.

In fairness, snap on is simply the popular synonym for tool trucks. Those who dislike snap on prices and business structure have the same to say about matco. A matco88 is a great ratchet, very expensive as well. I think overall a dual80 is a better mechanism, but the 88 has objective advantages.

There was a period on this forum I began replacing snap on with proto/Wright when using a brand name example of premium tools. Few people took issue or responded to "buying the top of the market can be worthwhile" when making the point from those brands.

A 7-22mm wright set is 240 bucks,proto a similar cost for a similar set up to 22mm. Street price, MSRP is obviously higher. An Icon set which on HF site is 130 for a set only to 19mm. I didn't find a set with Icon wrenches above 19mm, which is telling off something IMO. Point being, where's the "proto is a bad value" opinions? Where the "Icon is overpriced when I can buy Tekton" comments?

I don't watch sports, but I've noticed a trend when a team becomes dominant. People dislike them simply because they do well. Because being part of the "resistance" always feels better than conformity. I have enough different brands I don't feel the need to justify a purchase. I don't really understand how Icon fits into the mix of the tool ecosystem, but obviously when they "compare to snap on" that tells something doesn't it? Hey even at 75% of the performance for 25% of the price that's a winner in my book.

I agree on preferring the Dual 80 mechanism to the Matco 88. If it weren't for the Matco's lock and tapered handle on the Armstrong made Matco ratchets, I would likely have stayed Snap-On only for ratchets instead of having a mix of the two.

I keep typing things out wanting to comment on your observations about how bringing up higher end brands that are not Snap-On and noticing how people did not react negatively, but decided I haven't formed a solid enough opinion on the whole matter to say much. I use all three of those brands (Snap-On, Wright, and Proto), but my opinions on what I like and do not like from each brand as well as my own perception of what is a good value in terms of outright cost and performance are likely different from those of other people with different ideas and experiences with those brands. Maybe that's why people often focus on the HF vs Snap-On people where the motivations can often times be narrowed down to price.

 

[dchawk81]

I agree on preferring the Dual 80 mechanism to the Matco 88. If it weren't for the Matco's lock and tapered handle on the Armstrong made Matco ratchets, I would likely have stayed Snap-On only for ratchets instead of having a mix of the two.

I keep typing things out wanting to comment on your observations about how bringing up higher end brands that are not Snap-On and noticing how people did not react negatively, but decided I haven't formed a solid enough opinion on the whole matter to say much. I use all three of those brands (Snap-On, Wright, and Proto), but my opinions on what I like and do not like from each brand as well as my own perception of what is a good value in terms of outright cost and performance are likely different from those of other people with different ideas and experiences with those brands. Maybe that's why people often focus on the HF vs Snap-On people where the motivations can often times be narrowed down to price.

HF and SO are basically the two extremes (sort of). Or used to be. That's why they get all the focus.

I DGAF about brands per se that's why I have HF, SO, stuff in between, and even no name random Alphabet "brands" from Amazon and eBay. That's also why I think these conversations are mostly nonsense and trivial in the grand scheme of things.

 

[zendriver]

Those statements don't really agree though. All you're proving is you bought a suitable tool from HF. I don't think people argue that anything but the lowest quality offering from harbor freight are serviceable tools. Many of their tools are arguably "good" tools regardless of price, on performance alone. The Kabo made long pattern flex head wrenches come to mind. I've had excellent results with their impact extensions.

It has nothing to do with them "being exactly the same", unless one is just assuming the same work should be possible to complete with another brand.

I never said that, but whoever did referred to a functional and technical impossibility.

Since we are splitting hairs, no two Snap On ratchets or sockets are "exactly the same" either.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I never said that, but whoever did referred to a functional and technical impossibility.

Since we are splitting hairs, no two Snap On ratchets or sockets are "exactly the same" either.

The quoted reply originally was:

Can I say I do get a bit annoyed by the folks who announce they’ve discovered the Secret Magical Chinese Tool Store where the tools are exactly the same as Snap On for 1/5 the price etc. I’ve also noticed a detail that these pronouncements of Snap On equivalency come from folks who just purchased the magical Chinese tools, not people who’ve spent a year or 10 years with them.



Your point is valid, you bought a tool which performed its job. But they're not the same. Proto and SK aren't the same, neither is Harbor freight and snap on, unless they somehow share an OEM for a product they are buying out from a 3rd party. By definition no ratchet or socket I'm aware is sold by harbor freight it "the same" since they're made on different continents. One can argue whether that's materially relevant, but they're objectively not the same.

A civic and a corolla are both good cars, made by japanese companies, with 4 cylinder engines and 4 doors. They're not the same car though.

 

[Hakeem]

We talk about Snap On tools like they are an extravagance like a wrist watch or fancy dress shoes, only for rich people like yachts or private jets. We need to keep our perspective.

I probably spend more on coffee in a month than a new SO ratchet costs. I could have easily bought a nice socket set for the money I spent on parking in a few days in Seattle last summer.

We make out like there’s a class divide or SO tools are for private island people.

Well, maybe there is a bit of a class divide. I’m in my thirties with a young family and a few small businesses that I am attempting to grow. It feels irresponsible to spend the extra money on snapon when I can get nearly-as-good tools for a fraction of the price.

On the other hand, you do have a bit of a point when one considers the money people throw around on stupid stuff. I’ve been selling some pairs of Jordan sneakers I bought years ago. For some reason I had thought they were $95 msrp … no, they sell for $200+ at the store. And people will buy 1-2 pairs a month and see no issue with it. Insane!

Really puts the cost of premium hand tools into perspective.

I've tried more expensive coffees and they made no difference to me. So I went back to the cheap stuff.

I'm glad I don't have a coffee habit that costs me much. It's just a wake up habit for me more than anything.

Consider caffeine tablets perhaps. Faster, easier, more precise dosing. I’ve been doing them for 10 years or so.

The pro move is to pop a tablet 30minutes before you have to get up. You can fall back asleep while the caffeine starts to work and by the time you have to get up, you’re wide awake.

A 7-22mm wright set is 240 bucks,proto a similar cost for a similar set up to 22mm. Street price, MSRP is obviously higher. An Icon set which on HF site is 130 for a set only to 19mm. I didn't find a set with Icon wrenches above 19mm, which is telling off something IMO. Point being, where's the "proto is a bad value" opinions? Where the "Icon is overpriced when I can buy Tekton" comments?

I don't watch sports, but I've noticed a trend when a team becomes dominant. People dislike them simply because they do well. Because being part of the "resistance" always feels better than conformity. I have enough different brands I don't feel the need to justify a purchase. I don't really understand how Icon fits into the mix of the tool ecosystem, but obviously when they "compare to snap on" that tells something doesn't it? Hey even at 75% of the performance for 25% of the price that's a winner in my book.

https://www.harborfreight.com/professional-large-metric-combination-wrench-set-5-piece-64803.html

Only up to 24mm, but hey it’s something. The ratcheting wrench set goes 21-22-24-27-30-32

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Well, maybe there is a bit of a class divide. I’m in my thirties with a young family and a few small businesses that I am attempting to grow. It feels irresponsible to spend the extra money on snapon when I can get nearly-as-good tools for a fraction of the price.

On the other hand, you do have a bit of a point when one considers the money people throw around on stupid stuff. I’ve been selling some pairs of Jordan sneakers I bought years ago. For some reason I had thought they were $95 msrp … no, they sell for $200+ at the store. And people will buy 1-2 pairs a month and see no issue with it. Insane!

Really puts the cost of premium hand tools into perspective.


Consider caffeine tablets perhaps. Faster, easier, more precise dosing. I’ve been doing them for 10 years or so.

The pro move is to pop a tablet 30minutes before you have to get up. You can fall back asleep while the caffeine starts to work and by the time you have to get up, you’re wide awake.

https://www.harborfreight.com/professional-large-metric-combination-wrench-set-5-piece-64803.html

Only up to 24mm, but hey it’s something. The ratcheting wrench set goes 21-22-24-27-30-32

Thanks for the correction - I skimmed through their listings and was astonished I couldn't find a larger set the first time I looked at it. I couldn't fathom they didn't sell anything bigger in the ICON line.

It always impresses the me how many options they have, as a retail store, for a variety of hand tools.

 

[AEAdam]

Well, maybe there is a bit of a class divide. I’m in my thirties with a young family and a few small businesses that I am attempting to grow. It feels irresponsible to spend the extra money on snapon when I can get nearly-as-good tools for a fraction of the price.

On the other hand, you do have a bit of a point when one considers the money people throw around on stupid stuff. I’ve been selling some pairs of Jordan sneakers I bought years ago. For some reason I had thought they were $95 msrp … no, they sell for $200+ at the store. And people will buy 1-2 pairs a month and see no issue with it. Insane!

Really puts the cost of premium hand tools into perspective.


Consider caffeine tablets perhaps. Faster, easier, more precise dosing. I’ve been doing them for 10 years or so.

The pro move is to pop a tablet 30minutes before you have to get up. You can fall back asleep while the caffeine starts to work and by the time you have to get up, you’re wide awake.

https://www.harborfreight.com/professional-large-metric-combination-wrench-set-5-piece-64803.html

Only up to 24mm, but hey it’s something. The ratcheting wrench set goes 21-22-24-27-30-32

Nice. All, I can give you is this: I was there, raising a family, good engineering job, but had a side hustle and was fixing cars and doing home improvements. I did probably exactly what you are doing. I tried to get the biggest bang for my buck tool wise (but everything wise).

Looking back, I made some jobs harder on myself than I should have. There was more drama than there needed to be. If I had only spent, what in hindsight was an insignificant amount more on tools, those jobs would have gone smoother.

The money I’ve saved my family was longer term, and now I wish I’d spent some of that because I don’t need it now. I don’t know everybodies situation, and can’t possibily give advice that will help everyone. I will say this though: in general, we seem to approach tool buying like wrist watches or golf clubs or other hobby items. That’s not really fair. Our tools generally SAVE us money or facilitate other purchases (like older vehicles). You don’t necessary see the savings in your checking account, but if you did even a cursory comparison of what normal people spend on vehicles, you’d find that what you save is quite dramatic.

Snap On isn’t the answer here. Nor is the superiority of the brand the point. My point is, if a better quality tool can make one job in 100 a little easier (and it can), it may well be worth the expense. If you are happier doing a job, if the one stuck bolt just gets handled, the tool box drawer doesn’t frustrate you, it’s worth it. And you sorta want the benefit of nicer tools now while you are younger, under more pressure, have less patience, and can amortize them over a longer period.

 

[dchawk81]

Nice. All, I can give you is this: I was there, raising a family, good engineering job, but had a side hustle and was fixing cars and doing home improvements. I did probably exactly what you are doing. I tried to get the biggest bang for my buck tool wise (but everything wise).

Looking back, I made some jobs harder on myself than I should have. There was more drama than there needed to be. If I had only spent, what in hindsight was an insignificant amount more on tools, those jobs would have gone smoother.

The money I’ve saved my family was longer term, and now I wish I’d spent some of that because I don’t need it now. I don’t know everybodies situation, and can’t possibily give advice that will help everyone. I will say this though: in general, we seem to approach tool buying like wrist watches or golf clubs or other hobby items. That’s not really fair. Our tools generally SAVE us money or facilitate other purchases (like older vehicles). You don’t necessary see the savings in your checking account, but if you did even a cursory comparison of what normal people spend on vehicles, you’d find that what you save is quite dramatic.

Snap On isn’t the answer here. Nor is the superiority of the brand the point. My point is, if a better quality tool can make one job in 100 a little easier (and it can), it may well be worth the expense. If you are happier doing a job, if the one stuck bolt just gets handled, the tool box drawer doesn’t frustrate you, it’s worth it. And you sorta want the benefit of nicer tools now while you are younger, under more pressure, have less patience, and can amortize them over a longer period.

A lot of people are broke, fixing their stuff just to get to work so they can keep the roof over their head and mouths fed. Enjoying the process isn't really a top priority for them.

You seem to forget we don't all have good engineering jobs with auto repair a lucrative side hustle.

Think of the guy laying in the dirt to replace an alternator at the last minute who only has $200 to his name.

 

[AEAdam]

A lot of people are broke, fixing their stuff just to get to work so they can keep the roof over their head and mouths fed. Enjoying the process isn't really a top priority for them.

You seem to forget we don't all have good engineering jobs with auto repair a lucrative side hustle.

Think of the guy laying in the dirt to replace an alternator at the last minute who only has $200 to his name.

Fixing cars is not my side hustle and that was me laying in the dirt. Yes, some people are broke. I was once. I haven’t forgotten.

Some people (here) aren’t broke like I was. They are just militantly cheap. There’s a difference. (Think Ive heard that before somewhere)

 

[dchawk81]

Fixing cars is not my side hustle and that was me laying in the dirt. Yes, some people are broke. I was once. I haven’t forgotten.

Some people (here) aren’t broke like I was. They are just militantly cheap. There’s a difference. (Think Ive heard that before somewhere)

Yes some aren't broke. Some are cheap by preference. Some are cheap by necessity. Some are cheap by ignorance.

Some spend money they don't have on things they don't really need.

Point is, who cares and why insist on people be a certain way?

 

[Meursault74]

Well, maybe there is a bit of a class divide. I’m in my thirties with a young family and a few small businesses that I am attempting to grow. It feels irresponsible to spend the extra money on snapon when I can get nearly-as-good tools for a fraction of the price.

On the other hand, you do have a bit of a point when one considers the money people throw around on stupid stuff. I’ve been selling some pairs of Jordan sneakers I bought years ago. For some reason I had thought they were $95 msrp … no, they sell for $200+ at the store. And people will buy 1-2 pairs a month and see no issue with it. Insane!

Really puts the cost of premium hand tools into perspective.

That's the ticket right there and I agree with that. If it doesn't make a difference to you then don't pay the difference. I've only bought a few Snap On items. Why? Because they were unique and HF hadn't knocked them off (yet). I'm just a DIY I don't need that extra that SO gets you. I buy the store brand foods for many items. I can't tell the difference. I'm not saying there isn't a difference, I just can't tell.

Back when I was putting in epic miles and rides on my road racing bike, I ran Michelin tires that were over $100 for a pair (they likely cost a lot more now) and was lucky if I got 2000 miles out them. Those tires cost more than an entire typical Wallmart bike. I could absolutely tell the difference between those tires and the low end tires. Especially descending down the curving mountain roads at speed. I doubt the people leisurely cruising down the beach bike path could relate. I'm not saying the price I paid was reasonable, it did seem expensive to me, but it was worth it. Also considering I always kept the rubber side down on those descents, I'm OK with what I spent on them.

As I said I'm just DIY when it comes to repairs so the differences for tools won't make a difference to me say between upper end HF and SO. If a guy that does repairs all week long tells me that difference helps him out, I tend to believe it even though I won't see it for myself.

 

[CGarage]

I think allocating capital wisely is in the best interest of all. The savings can be plowed into income producing opportunities, like wise investments.

Most “luxury” wrist watches lose more value on the second hand market at a higher percentage rate than used, Snap-On tools. Not a joke.

Spending $200 on a Snap-On screwdriver set when a Vessel set, which I think is better quality, is available for $60 is poor capital allocation.

Going out to eat daily at American MacDonalds and Burger King and eating highly processed garbage while paying $4 USD for a soda pop / cola is also really stupid.

Smoking cigarettes when a pack is ~ $8 USD is also horrible.


Spend wisely.

 

[VolvoRyan]

There's a difference between "not buying Snap-On because it's expensive".... and the haters here and on YouTube who see windmills that need a good tipping.

It's like some people need a hobby. Wait...

It's all curious.

-Ryan

 

[micromind]

The type and cost of tools I buy depends a lot on where they will be used.

For example, suppose I spend $25 on a high-end 1/2" wrench. Suppose someone spends $5 on a chintzy no-name 1/2" wrench.

The $5 guy tells me that I'm an idiot for spending $25 on a wrench that does the exact same thing as his $5 model. This is true if all we ever do is change bicycle wheels but when the $5 wrench rounds off the corners of a bolt that's nearly impossible to get to and my $25 wrench takes it out with no problems, who is the idiot now?

Same goes with emergency vehicle took kits. Most people will get the cheapest one they can find. My emergency kits have the best tools in them. I can't afford to break a wrench when it's the only one I have........

 

[2ndGearRubber]

A lot of people are broke, fixing their stuff just to get to work so they can keep the roof over their head and mouths fed. Enjoying the process isn't really a top priority for them.

You seem to forget we don't all have good engineering jobs with auto repair a lucrative side hustle.

Think of the guy laying in the dirt to replace an alternator at the last minute who only has $200 to his name.

Buy what one can afford. I don't think there's any disagreement there. I think most, not all, but most people can buy something above Hart at walmart or the cheapest amazon no-name. Which brings me to the conclusion below:

That's the ticket right there and I agree with that. If it doesn't make a difference to you then don't pay the difference. I've only bought a few Snap On items. Why? Because they were unique and HF hadn't knocked them off (yet). I'm just a DIY I don't need that extra that SO gets you. I buy the store brand foods for many items. I can't tell the difference. I'm not saying there isn't a difference, I just can't tell.

Back when I was putting in epic miles and rides on my road racing bike, I ran Michelin tires that were over $100 for a pair (they likely cost a lot more now) and was lucky if I got 2000 miles out them. Those tires cost more than an entire typical Wallmart bike. I could absolutely tell the difference between those tires and the low end tires. Especially descending down the curving mountain roads at speed. I doubt the people leisurely cruising down the beach bike path could relate. I'm not saying the price I paid was reasonable, it did seem expensive to me, but it was worth it. Also considering I always kept the rubber side down on those descents, I'm OK with what I spent on them.

As I said I'm just DIY when it comes to repairs so the differences for tools won't make a difference to me say between upper end HF and SO. If a guy that does repairs all week long tells me that difference helps him out, I tend to believe it even though I won't see it for myself.

This is the mentality I have. People think my Wright wrenches are expensive. Compared to their $60 set, my wright-grips are. Can I do the job with the Sunex? Been there, done that, still have that 8-32mm set in my box. Point being I find value in the incremental improvement of the wrights.



That's really what it all comes down to - even if one is buying at HF, there are still cheaper tools available. So one is purchasing based on a matrix where price and marginal improvement both exist. As price increases, typically does marginal improvement, but it's obviously non-linear. Within that matrix, based on needs, available budget, and acceptance of cost, one purchases a product. In the example of buying Pittsburgh Pro, one has spent "more than required" to do the job as cheaper tools exist. Thus they've selected the marginal improvement presumed with those tools and spent the additional money to upgrade. This essentially describes all tool purchases above whatever is literally the cheapest item which can legally be defined as a "14mm wrench" for instance. Everybody justifies their place on this matrix. The issue being described in both this thread title, and conversely the "HF ***** brah" threads, is that even given identical situations people and their preferences/opinions/experiences/personalities are nearly assured to result in different results on this matrix of tools.


Supporting anecdote (the best kind of evidence) - My grandfather used SK tools. He was not a tradesman, he had a few sets of these SK sockets in the classic green case. "The tool box" as my father remembers it. Anyways I was in the market for a blow-molded case set of 3/8 shallow/deep sockets with some accessories for work away from the shop. I had purchased a Sunex 1/4 set already, and had the finances to buy whatever. I purchased these SK sockets because of HJE day, being (at the time) American made, and because they make me think of my grandfather. Someone with an identical life to mine aside from the grandfather connection may have bought.... proto, or tekton, or gearwrench. When looking at the matrix of tool,s people usually buy from somewhere within it due to a variety of factors which make it an "objectively correct" choice at the time given the inputs.

People don't buy..... Koken.... because of some giant spreadsheet of factors we can easily list out. They fell where they did on the matrix because of a variety of factors. So just because pittsburgh pro is my choice for impact extensions doesn't mean it's right/wrong, it just means it fit my variety of factors.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

I get the Harbor Freight vs Snap-on feud. HF literally calls out Snappy in all of their advertising. Also the tools look nearly identical and sometimes share similar characteristics. It makes sense that the two groups would beef with each other. Kinda reminds me of the Sox/Cubs or City/‘burbs stuff from when I grew up in Chicago.

I find it interesting that Matco, MAC and Cornwell avoid similar criticisms. Same with Stahlwille, Hazet, Tone, or any professional brand. Only Craftsman, Wera, Klein, and Knipex seem to drive out the same kinda of irrational hatred or loyalty. I can only assume it’s because of market exposure or some kind of emotional connection. I know professionally that we give each other a little ribbing about price when we buy new tools but it’s never serious and after a few days no one gives a poop any more. Maybe the social media influencers need to get out more but then again, the controversy brings them money so….

 

[dchawk81]

Buy what one can afford. I don't think there's any disagreement there. I think most, not all, but most people can buy something above Hart at walmart or the cheapest amazon no-name. Which brings me to the conclusion below:




This is the mentality I have. People think my Wright wrenches are expensive. Compared to their $60 set, my wright-grips are. Can I do the job with the Sunex? Been there, done that, still have that 8-32mm set in my box. Point being I find value in the incremental improvement of the wrights.



That's really what it all comes down to - even if one is buying at HF, there are still cheaper tools available. So one is purchasing based on a matrix where price and marginal improvement both exist. As price increases, typically does marginal improvement, but it's obviously non-linear. Within that matrix, based on needs, available budget, and acceptance of cost, one purchases a product. In the example of buying Pittsburgh Pro, one has spent "more than required" to do the job as cheaper tools exist. Thus they've selected the marginal improvement presumed with those tools and spent the additional money to upgrade. This essentially describes all tool purchases above whatever is literally the cheapest item which can legally be defined as a "14mm wrench" for instance. Everybody justifies their place on this matrix. The issue being described in both this thread title, and conversely the "HF ***** brah" threads, is that even given identical situations people and their preferences/opinions/experiences/personalities are nearly assured to result in different results on this matrix of tools.


Supporting anecdote (the best kind of evidence) - My grandfather used SK tools. He was not a tradesman, he had a few sets of these SK sockets in the classic green case. "The tool box" as my father remembers it. Anyways I was in the market for a blow-molded case set of 3/8 shallow/deep sockets with some accessories for work away from the shop. I had purchased a Sunex 1/4 set already, and had the finances to buy whatever. I purchased these SK sockets because of HJE day, being (at the time) American made, and because they make me think of my grandfather. Someone with an identical life to mine aside from the grandfather connection may have bought.... proto, or tekton, or gearwrench. When looking at the matrix of tool,s people usually buy from somewhere within it due to a variety of factors which make it an "objectively correct" choice at the time given the inputs.

People don't buy..... Koken.... because of some giant spreadsheet of factors we can easily list out. They fell where they did on the matrix because of a variety of factors. So just because pittsburgh pro is my choice for impact extensions doesn't mean it's right/wrong, it just means it fit my variety of factors.

Most people have to do financial triage to stay on a budget. It's not really for anyone else to dictate their priorities.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I will admit I see more "I only buy proto/snapon/matco snobs" etc and more "HF forever brah it's all the same tools" on other forms of social media.

All the tools have their place, and make sense for some people. Otherwise they'd be out of business. Some things like garbage drill bits, I'd outlaw if I were king. But they occupy a place in the matrix of price and marginal utility.

I get the Harbor Freight vs Snap-on feud. HF literally calls out Snappy in all of their advertising. Also the tools look nearly identical and sometimes share similar characteristics. It makes sense that the two groups would beef with each other. Kinda reminds me of the Sox/Cubs or City/‘burbs stuff from when I grew up in Chicago.

I find it interesting that Matco, MAC and Cornwell avoid similar criticisms. Same with Stahlwille, Hazet, Tone, or any professional brand. Only Craftsman, Wera, Klein, and Knipex seem to drive out the same kinda of irrational hatred or loyalty. I can only assume it’s because of market exposure or some kind of emotional connection. I know professionally that we give each other a little ribbing about price when we buy new tools but it’s never serious and after a few days no one gives a poop any more. Maybe the social media influencers need to get out more but then again, the controversy brings them money so….

Snap on is the "insert winning sports team here" of tools, in the tool community. Well known, pricey, inherently divisive. I think matco/mac/cornwell get hit harder for rebrands and markup on them than snap on does. That and cornwell having like 0% coverage of any given market. LOL

You can actually see something similar with Tekton. As tekton has filled a larger space and become more popular, "tekton is always the answer" has become more prevalent. There's actually some pushback in those threads which just default to that answer. Because Tekton is swallowing up a larger amount of the "good value" tool market reflected on this forum, it's now the "yankees" of that category on GJ, and thus challenges to it are more common.

Most people have to do financial triage to stay on a budget. It's not really for anyone else to dictate their priorities.

Exactly. And everyone builds that heirarchy of needs in a different order. People think I'm nuts because I don't take vacations. I'll use PTO if offered, but I have zero desire to go sit on a beach or whatever. Different heirarchy.

 

[dchawk81]

As divisive as SO vs HF is, nothing unites like a common enemy.

I think we can all agree that common enemy is...Gearwrench.

 

[VolvoRyan]

Snap on is the "insert winning sports team here" of tools, in the tool community.

I was actually going to say the "sports team" mentality is a lot of what's going on. We're the same with politics in this country.

I think we can all agree that common enemy is...Gearwrench.

Agreed! That's really the only brand that I have a passion for..... not liking.

-Ryan