Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?

[2ndGearRubber]

No, just use it.

I used to attend estate/business auctions that sold stuff owned by pro mechanics, or stuff from good size pro auto shops, likely started business/careers during the 50's, 60's.

All various brands tool truck stuff. Tools, stools, test equipment, ect.

Just looked like old, Not rusty, well worn tools. Looking at all the other personal **** in the auction, looked like they made pretty good dough, over the years.

Not sure when this strange obsession over tools started.

Grandpa was a master carpenter/woodworker, he owned a German made nothing. Dad was a pro mechanic his stuff was whatever NAPA or Sturm's Auto parts had in stock.

I generally just enjoy a well made tool which does the job I ask of it. A good tool makes the job better, easier, faster, and more profitable if that's your job.

I like solving problems, and tools solve problems for me. Obsessed? Maybe. But I sure do like a well thought out solution. I used an M22x1.5 split die today for the first time, ebay cheapo non-name, and boy was I happy with that purchase.

uh... the exaggeration is on the weekend warrior side, eh?


There's zero substantive, metric-based, statistically-significant information that would say an Icon tool isn't up to daily use. Most of what is posted here is opinions. Most testing on YouTube tends to be biased one way or the other, or with folks like Project Farm well-intentioned but often flawed testing. Bs.t even the guys at TTC would admit their testing does not meet the bar for statistically-significant sample size to be considered data. But as a guy who interacts often with the part of my company that does reliability and durability testing, it's the closest thing I've seen to the kind of repeatability that allows for comparison of tests from multiple sessions and well-designed targeting. The Tools Tested guy is pretty good too, at least with stuff like Torque Wrenches (repeatable, large cycle counts, decent methodology, etc.), but also suffers from sample size.

Funny though. The Icon stuff does pretty darn well with those last two guys...

I also hear enough guys on Reddit who say they use Icon in their job as techs that I think the "light duty" thing is a crock. The only beefs I hear are the narrow span of the product portfolio and the lack of easy purchase for singles.

Ultimately I don't care if people want to spend their money on Snap On. I have zero doubts about the overall quality. I have some Snap On tools. I have a lot of Icon. I also have SK, Matco, Ko-ken, Tekton and a variety of other brands. I also have zero doubts that a full time tech could take my set and do just fine. I have no problems with my tools not performing or breaking.

Other than flare wrenches and a very-few other things, there's no substantive gap in the performance of the tools. If the truck-model service is "worth it" to you, then it's your choice. But the "investment protection" line people throw around is a load of ****. You could buy two sets of Icon everything (for backups while you exercise the warranty) and put the difference the single Snap On set would cost in an IRA or other investment in a simple index fund and do vastly better financially. And your work would still get done.


I'm not sure what you mean. There's a LOT more going on with a ratchet than a wrench, and a bad ratchet can make a job miserable. My Sunex ratchets are genuinely awful to use - gobs of backdrag and a tendency to self-reverse. My Icon, Snap-On and Ko-Ken ratchets are all great.

Does anyone say Icon isn't up to being used for its purpose? Everything of theirs I've ever seen or handled was clearly a functional tool. IDK how I look or appear in this whole thing to the reader, but the only thing negatives I have to say about them is:

1) I think better tools exist, typically for more money, which do not scale their improvement linearly with cost

2) Icon is more expensive than other brands which can still complete the job as well.

Eventually it ALL dies with daily use. I used a koken socket and HF impact extension (which was the perfect length) to remove wheel bearing bolts today on a rotten Patriot, after beating the whole thing onto the bolt with a Snap-on bronze hammer. It will all succumb to the eventuality we ourselves face. I did use a snap on ratchet to break them free then a snap on torque wrench to install, BUT I beat a Sunex 30mm onto what was left of the 32mm axle nut and still almost rounded it out. Probably should have got the 29mm. Point being lots of brands in lots of price ranges perform for me daily.

Does anyone say that Icon isn't a functional wrench? I used a $150 Sunex 8-32 set for years, still do. Amazon says I bought it in 2014. Still have those wrenches. Way too much lead-in taper on the box end was my main beef.

Having used the Napa carylyle wrenches as my SAE set, I bought a used set of snap on as the whole set wore significantly. TTC mentions these clones of Icon. I can promise you snap on, and wright, and proto makes a better wrench. Is the snap on 6 times better? No. Is the incremental value worth it to me? Yes. Icon seems like a no-brainer for ratcheting wrenches, and with the quality of the open end I'd say they're a good value. Mine are a mismatch of sets from most major brands.


The whole Icon thing reminds me of the Astro 401K air hammer I bought. I wanted to test it, so I bought it as a gift for a friend I work with. It's 80% of a snap on, for ~$120. The snap on is $550. For that $550 you can buy the 401K AND a Thor air hammer. For those chasing the last percentage points, things get very expensive. I'd tell most people to buy a 401K. I would rebuy the snap on.

 

[richfinn]

Most of Beta stuff has a COO of China. Sacrilege on this forum. No way that tool could possibly work!

Sarcasm.

It was a very long time ago when they were still made in Italy most probably, that said I've got some from the 90s and they are still nice tools

 

[Mb4]

uh... the exaggeration is on the weekend warrior side, eh?


There's zero substantive, metric-based, statistically-significant information that would say an Icon tool isn't up to daily use. Most of what is posted here is opinions.

No kidding! Who would have guessed that a tool forum discussion people's opinions and experiences with various products would be mostly opinions? I never would have guessed. I've owned all of these major brands over the years, including the Icon. I've had an Icon replaced twice. For my work, it wasn't up to daily use. YMMV. As far as budget brand ratchets are concerned, I would (and do) pick the Tekton over the Icon. The Tekton is a much better tool, or at least has been for me. I have relied on the Tekton in emergency situations they performed well.

I'm not sure what you mean. There's a LOT more going on with a ratchet than a wrench, and a bad ratchet can make a job miserable. My Sunex ratchets are genuinely awful to use - gobs of backdrag and a tendency to self-reverse. My Icon, Snap-On and Ko-Ken ratchets are all great.

I'm specifically referring to comments like yours above: "You could buy two sets of Icon everything (for backups while you exercise the warranty) and put the difference the single Snap On set would cost in an IRA or other investment in a simple index fund and do vastly better financially. And your work would still get done."

Over-analyzing the cost of tools to the point of worry about putting a meager $200 contribution into an investment portfolio. Buy whatever you want, but I'm not worried about collecting $20.26 (less taxes) over the purchase of a hand tool. I reserve the right to find humor in some of these - exaggerated - suggestions.

 

[Mb4]

I generally just enjoy a well made tool which does the job I ask of it. A good tool makes the job better, easier, faster, and more profitable if that's your job.

Does anyone say that Icon isn't a functional wrench? I used a $150 Sunex 8-32 set for years, still do. Amazon says I bought it in 2014. Still have those wrenches. Way too much lead-in taper on the box end was my main beef.

What a few of these posters are missing is that this is a Garage Journal message board which encompasses people who are interested in garages, tools, cars, etc. It's not an accountant forum. The same people jump to the defense of Harbor Freight so quickly it makes me think HF is astroturfing support on this site the same way they do on Reddit. Of course the Icon is a functional wrench for it's purpose of being a budget priced wrench. That HF warranty is there for a reason: the tools are made to a price point and some of them are going to break sooner, on average, than a more expensive tool. This isn't a difficult concept for most people to grasp. It's also why the HF brand is polarizing. Some people don't mind returning the tools for warranty, others are distrustful of the tools because of the built in failure margin that the business is designed around. Some people want to buy once, cry once so to speak (although there are truly only a few types of tools with which you can do that). Others don't. It's just a matter of personal preference. But it's just (a) ignorant or (b) obtuse to suggest that these bargain priced tools offer everything their (much) higher priced alternatives cost. Same is true for the HF power tools.

 

[richfinn]

What a few of these posters are missing is that this is a Garage Journal message board which encompasses people who are interested in garages, tools, cars, etc. It's not an accountant forum. The same people jump to the defense of Harbor Freight so quickly it makes me think HF is astroturfing support on this site the same way they do on Reddit. Of course the Icon is a functional wrench for it's purpose of being a budget priced wrench. That HF warranty is there for a reason: the tools are made to a price point and some of them are going to break sooner, on average, than a more expensive tool. This isn't a difficult concept for most people to grasp. It's also why the HF brand is polarizing. Some people don't mind returning the tools for warranty, others are distrustful of the tools because of the built in failure margin that the business is designed around. Some people want to buy once, cry once so to speak (although there are truly only a few types of tools with which you can do that). Others don't. It's just a matter of personal preference. But it's just (a) ignorant or (b) obtuse to suggest that these bargain priced tools offer everything their (much) higher priced alternatives cost. Same is true for the HF power tools.

If a HF hammer offers 95% of the utility of a Snap-On hammer for a tenth of the cost, I could probably live with that to be totally honest.

I like Snap-On but I'm not that much of a "tool snob" (we don't actually have HF in the UK, and I use a Hultafors hammer which is about a third of the price and a better hammer IMHO).

 

[2ndGearRubber]

If a HF hammer offers 95% of the utility of a Snap-On hammer for a tenth of the cost, I could probably live with that to be totally honest.

I like Snap-On but I'm not that much of a "tool snob" (we don't actually have HF in the UK, and I use a Hultafors hammer which is about a third of the price and a better hammer IMHO).

I still have a old favorite HF ball peen in my box..... my snap on box. Had to re-seat the stake in the head a while back, pretty sure I used a snap on hammer to do so.

I don't even know what kind of category this puts me in. I always feel like a tool snob with my Koken stuff with its gorgeous matte and knurling.

 

[Snapdragon]

I don't exactly know, OP, but people constantly either backing or bashing Snap-On instead of just acknowledging they're a tool company with flaws and features like any other is exhausting. I think it's less rage and more mild exasperation from seeing the same topic over and over again.

 

[richfinn]

I still have a old favorite HF ball peen in my box..... my snap on box. Had to re-seat the stake in the head a while back, pretty sure I used a snap on hammer to do so.

I don't even know what kind of category this puts me in. I always feel like a tool snob with my Koken stuff with its gorgeous matte and knurling.

I don't mind slumming it with what I consider "consumable tools" but I will push the boat out a bit for tools that will last me a lifetime.

I do love my knurled Ko-ken extensions though

 

[JesSharTucker]

On my way to work most day, I see a Yugo like this parked on the street. Some days it's not there, so the thing must still work. This one looks just like the one the lady had back in the day. It might even be the same one since it's in the same neighborhood.

Put it on a episode of Roadkill. A few parts decals to get 400hp!! Imagine if the Silver Bullet had run into this "modified" Yugo on Woodward Ave...

 

[AEAdam]

I don't exactly know, OP, but people constantly either backing or bashing Snap-On instead of just acknowledging they're a tool company with flaws and features like any other is exhausting. I think it's less rage and more mild exasperation from seeing the same topic over and over again.

You joined 5 days ago and you are already exhausted and exasperated? I think this isn't the place for you.

 

[thingfixer]

I've worked with (frankly) very bad mechanics who thought they were good mechanics because they were $20,000 in debt to the Snap-On guy, but I've also worked with very good mechanics who had a lot of Snap-On stuff. I even know one good mechanic who owns a Snap-On box

I will admit that the former kind of mechanic really grates on me - and it seems a lot of people who vent their spleens online feel the same way - because he often insists everything else is junk and that a real mechanic would never use, say, a tire tread gauge or a measuring tape that doesn't say Snap-On on the side. I also don't think it helps Snap-On's image (though I'm sure it's good for the bottom line) that they have a sales office right in many trade schools where instructors plug their wares to naive students who don't even know what a screwdriver is before they start chucking money at the tool truck - see attached photo, the technical college I was at today.

Personally, though I often wish I could, I would never use nice, expensive tools at my workplace because a) I fix dirty dump trucks and trailers with one foot in the scrapyard, and b) my colleagues unfortunately have no respect for anybody's property and would steal them without batting an eye. I've gotta say I've never had an issue yet with rounding fasteners with generic Taiwanese "drop forged" wrenches - rounding is usually a result of poor technique or corrosion in my own experience - and 99% of the time it would be a non-issue anyway because all the hardware we need is in the stockroom, and welding a nut onto a rounded bolt or using an extractor for rounded brass fittings usually does the trick for my purposes. I can't justify spending hundreds on, say, an impact socket set that I know I'm going to be banging with a sledge onto white-hot crud-covered bolts on a siezed lift axle centring plate - it would be like taking a Ferrari offroading. That being said, if I was working in a dealership or some other cleaner setting, I would probably prefer to use high-quality tools on a daily basis.

As regards garagejournal, this seems mainly to be a tool collecting enthusiasts' forum where people appreciate tools for their aesthetics, historical value and rarity as well as their utility. If you want to collect and enjoy using a given brand of tools, I don't see any issue with that. I have some nicer tools at home (Beta, USAG, Koken, Gray, various others) and aside from appreciating their ease of use and reliability, I just enjoy using and having them.

uh... the exaggeration is on the weekend warrior side, eh?


There's zero substantive, metric-based, statistically-significant information that would say an Icon tool isn't up to daily use. Most of what is posted here is opinions. Most testing on YouTube tends to be biased one way or the other, or with folks like Project Farm well-intentioned but often flawed testing. Bs.t even the guys at TTC would admit their testing does not meet the bar for statistically-significant sample size to be considered data. But as a guy who interacts often with the part of my company that does reliability and durability testing, it's the closest thing I've seen to the kind of repeatability that allows for comparison of tests from multiple sessions and well-designed targeting. The Tools Tested guy is pretty good too, at least with stuff like Torque Wrenches (repeatable, large cycle counts, decent methodology, etc.), but also suffers from sample size.

Funny though. The Icon stuff does pretty darn well with those last two guys...

I also hear enough guys on Reddit who say they use Icon in their job as techs that I think the "light duty" thing is a crock. The only beefs I hear are the narrow span of the product portfolio and the lack of easy purchase for singles.

Ultimately I don't care if people want to spend their money on Snap On. I have zero doubts about the overall quality. I have some Snap On tools. I have a lot of Icon. I also have SK, Matco, Ko-ken, Tekton and a variety of other brands. I also have zero doubts that a full time tech could take my set and do just fine. I have no problems with my tools not performing or breaking.

Other than flare wrenches and a very-few other things, there's no substantive gap in the performance of the tools. If the truck-model service is "worth it" to you, then it's your choice. But the "investment protection" line people throw around is a load of ****. You could buy two sets of Icon everything (for backups while you exercise the warranty) and put the difference the single Snap On set would cost in an IRA or other investment in a simple index fund and do vastly better financially. And your work would still get done.


I'm not sure what you mean. There's a LOT more going on with a ratchet than a wrench, and a bad ratchet can make a job miserable. My Sunex ratchets are genuinely awful to use - gobs of backdrag and a tendency to self-reverse. My Icon, Snap-On and Ko-Ken ratchets are all great.

This is one of the all-time great reaction gifs about guys on reddit, it probably depends on which subs you browse, but I wonder sometimes how many of them are just larpers who feel the need to justify their tool collections by claiming they need them for work. Lots of people talk on there as if their tools are breaking left and right on a daily basis - even absolute poop-tier stuff made in India usually doesn't just disintegrate in your hand on day one, but reddit bros talk as if their boxes full of Snap-On and IR are a never-ending toolpocalypse to an extent that seems a bit hard to believe.

 

[Snapdragon]

You joined 5 days ago and you are already exhausted and exasperated? I think this isn't the place for you.

My co-workers and garage mates talk about this (Snap On vs. everyone else) every other day or so. It's a topic that comes up in places other than just this forum.

 

[dchawk81]

No kidding! Who would have guessed that a tool forum discussion people's opinions and experiences with various products would be mostly opinions? I never would have guessed. I've owned all of these major brands over the years, including the Icon. I've had an Icon replaced twice. For my work, it wasn't up to daily use. YMMV. As far as budget brand ratchets are concerned, I would (and do) pick the Tekton over the Icon. The Tekton is a much better tool, or at least has been for me. I have relied on the Tekton in emergency situations they performed well.


I'm specifically referring to comments like yours above: "You could buy two sets of Icon everything (for backups while you exercise the warranty) and put the difference the single Snap On set would cost in an IRA or other investment in a simple index fund and do vastly better financially. And your work would still get done."

Over-analyzing the cost of tools to the point of worry about putting a meager $200 contribution into an investment portfolio. Buy whatever you want, but I'm not worried about collecting $20.26 (less taxes) over the purchase of a hand tool. I reserve the right to find humor in some of these - exaggerated - suggestions.

But investing doesn't just yield one return and that's it. It keeps growing onto itself and the bigger it gets the larger the yield, making it grow exponentially.

Plus it was a single tool choice example. You could expand it and say $10,000 spent on less expensive tools vs $60,000 spent at SO and invest the $50,000 difference.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

My co-workers and garage mates talk about this (Snap On vs. everyone else) every other day or so. It's a topic that comes up in places other than just this forum.

I would probably enjoy that if it was a real discussion. If it's "brah snap on is ****" and "HF ***** mad ****", not so much. Outside "oohhh, ahhhh" from coworkers over the delicious Koken knurling, most aren't tool enthusiasts

I have snap on 3/8 electric ratchets, but the 1/4 are m12. Each fills a purpose for me, and when the long neck 1/4 finally dies? I've been putting a lot of thought into which way I'm going to go.

But investing doesn't just yield one return and that's it. It keeps growing onto itself and the bigger it gets the larger the yield, making it grow exponentially.

Plus it was a single tool choice example. You could expand it and say $10,000 spent on less expensive tools vs $60,000 spent at SO and invest the $50,000 difference.

That sort of assumes you have 50k cash sitting around and decide "I need to buy tools from scratch". I think $75k would duplicate my tools, no boxes/carts/consumables, just the tools. But I didn't go out and buy that one day, it's taken ~13 years. I think a better idea for someone who can benefit from a vast majority of tools, is how fast can one convert money into ROI producing tools or savings? The more tools, the more jobs, the faster, the more money, for more tools. That was my system, now I'm established well enough between the tools and experience I could likely fend off any challenge to undermine my pay. If it's not your job, how much hassle/money is not having the tool? Then we add all our personal biases in, and make a choice.

For most people, they buy a basic blow molded set and some complete dogshit pliers. Like the worst pliers on the planet are somehow everyone's first pliers. From there they grow until their needs are met. Upgrading may or may not be part of that, depends if they need the marginal performance increases, specific types of warranty, how sensitive they are to speed, how diverse their tool needs are, etc.

I'm going to be hitting my saving goal soon and I'm planning then on making an invest plan outside of basic retirement accounts.

 

[Ultradog MN]

The sad part of threads like this is that Snap On is one of the last and best tool companies left in America and here we are badmouthing the hell out of it.
I don't doubt they are consistantly great tools. They might be the best tools ever but not everyone is a professional mechanic who needs that level of quality or can justify that level of expense.
Joe Thunderbutt just wants to change the spark plug in his Briggs and Stratton for cripesake. He doesn't need a high quality tool to do that.
A 500 piece tool set from Harbor Fright for $29.95 might be all he needs and he might wanna show off his great deal here. Of course I cringe and of course I'm tempted to demolish his pride of ownership but doing so just makes ME look like a tool snob and that makes all the other Joe Ts dennigrate my Williams and your Snap Ons.
The old saying, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" applys to the the Joe Ts and their POS tools too. We aren't gonna bring them to a higher level of tool ownership by beating them up. We'll do better by just shutting our traps and not provoking them to drag our own favorite brand through the mud.

 

[AEAdam]

The sad part of threads like this is that Snap On is one of the last and best tool companies left in America and here we are badmouthing the hell out of it.
I don't doubt they are consistantly great tools. They might be the best tools ever but not everyone is a professional mechanic who needs that level of quality or can justify that level of expense.
Joe Thunderbutt just wants to change the spark plug in his Briggs and Stratton for cripesake. He doesn't need a high quality tool to do that.
A 500 piece tool set from Harbor Fright for $29.95 might be all he needs and he might wanna show off his great deal here. Of course I cringe and of course I'm tempted to demolish his pride of ownership but doing so just makes ME look like a tool snob and that makes all the other Joe Ts dennigrate my Williams and your Snap Ons.
The old saying, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" applys to the the Joe Ts and their POS tools too. We aren't gonna bring them to a higher level of tool ownership by beating them up. We'll do better by just shutting our traps and not provoking them to drag our own favorite brand through the mud.

Here’s another new member‘s post having read no posts here.

It’s really rare here that folks ask questions with ANY qualifying information like:

”I’m Joe Thunderbutt, I’m 28, and I’m looking to buy a tool set to fix my Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine. My only experience fixing engines is the Nintendo farm simulator. What is your advice for a reasonably priced toolset?”

This NEVER happens here or almost never.

The question is:

“looking for a set of sockets under $100 thanks.”

The responses are
@zendriver : Pittsburgh because they are BEST tools money can buy
@dchawk81 : And the warranty is the BEST. I know because I constantly warranty my HF tools because I break them on every job.
@CGarage Snap On is better because in this video…..
@2ndGearRubber : I’m a pro and I have both in my box
@AEAdam : if you take the integral of strain, you will see the inverse proportion of screwdriver handles is GREATER
@richfinn: I actually like (insert brand no one has ever heard of). It’s one of the 3 tools I carry on my personhood to repair all manner of things on the motorways, along with drinking chocolate for when I’m a bit peckish.

Thats the GJ. I know and love.

PS, only singled out the folks here who I feel have good senses of humor. If I offended any of you I apologize. My @richfinn impersonation made him sound like Austen Powers, and he really doesnt sound that way to me. Sorry Rich

 

[thomfr]

For me personally I prefer the Hazet, Stahlwille and professional series Beta above Snap On as I consider their finish as too slippery to use with greasy hands. Beside that I could only afford half of my current tools at the Snap On prices in Europe. And the only thing I ever bought on a loan is our house.
No one forces anybody to buy it..
Thom

ps: having some kids it is clear that whole of youtube is only about getting clicks at any price.

 

[Mb4]

I would probably enjoy that if it was a real discussion. If it's "brah snap on is ****" and "HF ***** mad ****", not so much. Outside "oohhh, ahhhh" from coworkers over the delicious Koken knurling, most aren't tool enthusiasts

I have snap on 3/8 electric ratchets, but the 1/4 are m12. Each fills a purpose for me, and when the long neck 1/4 finally dies? I've been putting a lot of thought into which way I'm going to go.




That sort of assumes you have 50k cash sitting around and decide "I need to buy tools from scratch". I think $75k would duplicate my tools, no boxes/carts/consumables, just the tools. But I didn't go out and buy that one day, it's taken ~13 years. I think a better idea for someone who can benefit from a vast majority of tools, is how fast can one convert money into ROI producing tools or savings? The more tools, the more jobs, the faster, the more money, for more tools. That was my system, now I'm established well enough between the tools and experience I could likely fend off any challenge to undermine my pay. If it's not your job, how much hassle/money is not having the tool? Then we add all our personal biases in, and make a choice.

For most people, they buy a basic blow molded set and some complete dogshit pliers. Like the worst pliers on the planet are somehow everyone's first pliers. From there they grow until their needs are met. Upgrading may or may not be part of that, depends if they need the marginal performance increases, specific types of warranty, how sensitive they are to speed, how diverse their tool needs are, etc.

I'm going to be hitting my saving goal soon and I'm planning then on making an invest plan outside of basic retirement accounts.

You clearly understand the point. Tools are used to make money. Whatever tools are the best at making money most efficiently are by definition the best tools for the job. Sometimes it’s a “cheap” tool. Sometimes it isn’t.

 

[Kurt4440]

Here’s another new member‘s post having read no posts here.

You probably didn't get the memo yet, but, you are still considered a new member until you reach your fifth anniversary.

PS, only singled out the folks here who I feel have good senses of humor. If I offended any of you I apologize. My @richfinn impersonation made him sound like Austen Powers, and he really doesnt sound that way to me. Sorry Rich

I am offended that I wasn't consulted and my tremendous sense of humor was not recognized.


Tools don't make people rage, people choose to rage because they are unwilling or unable to communicate their ideas clearly, nor, recognize the merits of other peoples ideas.

Tools are designed to accomplish tasks, so all you people, get back to work.

 

[CGarage]

I own Snap-On because of what Fast n Furious told me! I watched this movie in the U.S. to see what ricer car culture was all about. I wished for these 2 hours of my life back.

In the end, all I got out of this is that I am very happy with my Japanese tools and I think very highly of them.

 

[zendriver]

What a few of these posters are missing is that this is a Garage Journal message board which encompasses people who are interested in garages, tools, cars, etc. It's not an accountant forum. The same people jump to the defense of Harbor Freight so quickly it makes me think HF is astroturfing support on this site the same way they do on Reddit. Of course the Icon is a functional wrench for it's purpose of being a budget priced wrench. That HF warranty is there for a reason: the tools are made to a price point and some of them are going to break sooner, on average, than a more expensive tool. This isn't a difficult concept for most people to grasp. It's also why the HF brand is polarizing. Some people don't mind returning the tools for warranty, others are distrustful of the tools because of the built in failure margin that the business is designed around. Some people want to buy once, cry once so to speak (although there are truly only a few types of tools with which you can do that). Others don't. It's just a matter of personal preference. But it's just (a) ignorant or (b) obtuse to suggest that these bargain priced tools offer everything their (much) higher priced alternatives cost. Same is true for the HF power tools.

You might be missing that those that “defend” HF tools, don’t do so because they watched some YouTube video

They actually have user experience with them, something many of the elite don’t have at all, since they would never soil their hands with such cheap garbage.

Personally, I have used both - not much difference with the basic tools, other than price.

Since we are mentioning warranty, doesn’t Snap On have a lifetime warranty, with a publicly disclosed amount of annual revenue, budgeted for warranty returns?

Assuming some of them break sooner or later

 

[AEAdam]

reminders my dear friend:

You might be missing that those that “defend” HF tools, don’t do so because they watched some YouTube video

some do, some don’t. Sone people just like to argue.

…something many of the elite don’t have at all, since they would never soil their hands with such cheap garbage.

There is no “elite”. Tools don’t have that power. McLarens might, but not Snap On automotive tools.

Personally, I have used both - not much difference with the basic tools, other than price.

Your mileage might vary brother. Don’t discount the fact that some of us have had different experiences.

Kinda to the point, and my point to @Ultradog MN; Lsts all try to avoid these massive sweeping generalities, especially those that seperate us all and create these almost political/social camps. There are no camps. Actually there’s one camp. People who like tools or like to use tools.

@Shoreline_ is right. People DO rage over tools and more, but there’s always an almost willful lack of understanding in that rage. It’s like any kind of prejudice.

I have a Snap On KRL full of Snap On tools, many in pristine condition. Do you know what that says about me? Nothing. It says nothing about me. There is no accurate conclusion you can draw about any of us from our tools.

please remind me when I don’t take my own advice.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

You might be missing that those that “defend” HF tools, don’t do so because they watched some YouTube video

They actually have user experience with them, something many of the elite don’t have at all, since they would never soil their hands with such cheap garbage.

Personally, I have used both - not much difference with the basic tools, other than price.

Since we are mentioning warranty, doesn’t Snap On have a lifetime warranty, with a publicly disclosed amount of annual revenue, budgeted for warranty returns?

Assuming some of them break sooner or later

Who in the US population of tool users has never used a HF tool?

That's like the 90s equivilant of never using craftsman.

 

[Snapdragon]

Tools don't make people rage

Oh, I don't know about that. Realizing a tool's missing or broken and having to walk to a hardware store for a replacement is pretty anger-inducing

 

[Meursault74]

Who in the US population of tool users has never used a HF tool?

That's like the 90s equivilant of never using craftsman.

One of my brothers has no HF tools. He's never even been there. He does some household projects and carpentry mostly. If he needs a tool to complete a task, he'll buy whatever Homedepot has on the shelf because he's already there getting whatever supplies he needs. It's just a tool to accomplish a task to him, nothing more. He doesn't put any more thought or emotion into it.

My other brother and I have HF stuff as well as other brands and try to get deals from HF and have some tool "just in case" or for the future..

 

[CGarage]

One of my brothers has no HF tools. He's never even been there. He does some household projects and carpentry mostly. If he needs a tool to complete a task, he'll buy whatever Homedepot has on the shelf because he's already there getting whatever supplies he needs. It's just a tool to accomplish a task to him, nothing more. He doesn't put any more thought or emotion into it.

My other brother and I have HF stuff as well as other brands and try to get deals from HF and have some tool "just in case" or for the future..

He’s wasting money and resources buying HD junk at exorbitant prices. It’s highway robbery money for junk.

 

[dchawk81]

He’s wasting money and resources buying HD junk at exorbitant prices. It’s highway robbery money for junk.

Saving time and hassle though. That's worth something.

 

[Mb4]

Who in the US population of tool users has never used a HF tool?

That's like the 90s equivilant of never using craftsman.

We get it, Zendriver likes Harbor Freight. Good for him. Nobody is telling him not to buy it. What Zendriver doesn’t seem to get is that this is a tool forum for people who like all sorts of tools. Some tools are made to a higher price/point than others like HF budget tools. They’re not status symbols, they’re tools. It’s pretty obnoxious to hear constant HF astroturfing which has jumped the shark to include suggesting that HF somehow gives the purchaser the advantage of putting what, in the grand scheme of things is a minor amount of money into a retirement account. Piss on that. This is a place for tool enthusiasts, mechanics, etc. to discuss and enjoy tools

 

[Kurt4440]

Oh, I don't know about that. Realizing a tool's missing or broken and having to walk to a hardware store for a replacement is pretty anger-inducing

Oh Grasshopper, you have so much to learn about some of us.
First- my tools never go missing, they are all neatly organized in my ceramic coated toolboxes and my work flow is so efficient, that I know where everything is at all times.
Second- my tools don't break because I only buy the best of the best. Additionally, I have backups of every tool, just in case.
Third - I have backup vehicles to back up my backup vehicles, so that I only have to walk to destinations while on vacation.

You will understand after you have been on this forum for at least 10 years.

By the way, welcome, and thanks for having a sense of humor.

 

[niget2002]

He’s wasting money and resources buying HD junk at exorbitant prices. It’s highway robbery money for junk.

If all I need is one socket or wrench and I'm already there, then the extra $.30 over driving anywhere else is more than made up for in the amount of diesel I just saved.

I will say, I've been buying more and more one-off tools on Amazon these days.

 

[Meursault74]

He’s wasting money and resources buying HD junk at exorbitant prices. It’s highway robbery money for junk.

He's saving time for sure. I don't know about junk though. I have a couple of "Husky" HD items and they are ok for my needs. Certainly worth getting if I was already there. But I think you're just joking anyway.
Wasting money, well he and his wife love to go to restaurants, I bigger waste of money, I can't think of.

Saving time and hassle though. That's worth something.

Exactly, he doesn't care. I guarantee you he isn't thinking about tools outside of when he's using it for the task at hand.

 

[niget2002]

Wasting money, well he and his wife love to go to restaurants, I bigger waste of money, I can't think of.

Meh... Just like buying the tool at home depot. If you're already out and about, then stopping some place to eat before heading home can save time that can be used elsewhere.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Saving time and hassle though. That's worth something.

I can always get more money, I can't get back time.

 

[Meursault74]

Meh... Just like buying the tool at home depot. If you're already out and about, then stopping some place to eat before heading home can save time that can be used elsewhere.

no, they go to restaurants instead of cooking meals at home. As for saving time, I already mentioned this in the tipping thread..... going to a restaurant takes waaaay more time than cooking at home.

 

[CGarage]

He's saving time for sure. I don't know about junk though. I have a couple of "Husky" HD items and they are ok for my needs. Certainly worth getting if I was already there. But I think you're just joking anyway.
Wasting money, well he and his wife love to go to restaurants, I bigger waste of money, I can't think of.





Exactly, he doesn't care. I guarantee you he isn't thinking about tools outside of when he's using it for the task at hand.

Depends on where he eats and what he eats.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

no, they go to restaurants instead of cooking meals at home. As for saving time, I already mentioned this in the tipping thread..... going to a restaurant takes waaaay more time than cooking at home.

But I can't cook.....

 

[zendriver]

Who in the US population of tool users has never used a HF tool?

That's like the 90s equivilant of never using craftsman.

No idea and it’s not the same at all

Craftsman was a huge American tool brand that’s been around for 100 years.

It’s a doubtful The young gearhead. were all using snap on tools in high school.

Seems kind of hard to make a comparisonThe

 

[neophyte]

Saving time and hassle though. That's worth something.

In Philly, there are Harbor Freight stores at the Franklin Mills Mall, as well as one in South Philly a few blocks distance from a Home Depot, a Walmart, a Lowes, and basically right across a parking lot from a Target, and an Acme Supermarket.
It takes longer to find stuff and pay for it in the Harbor Freight than to walk across the parking lot to get to the store.

 

[dchawk81]

In Philly, there are Harbor Freight stores at the Franklin Mills Mall, as well as one in South Philly a few blocks distance from a Home Depot, a Walmart, a Lowes, and basically right across a parking lot from a Target, and an Acme Supermarket.
It takes longer to find stuff and pay for it in the Harbor Freight than to walk across the parking lot to get to the store.

Some of us actually hate jumping from store to store. (My thinking you're debating response).

Exactly! Sometimes checkout at different stores isn't worth the hassle. (My thinking you're agreeing response).

 

[Meursault74]

But I can't cook.....

Why?

Are you waiting for Snap-On to make a stove?