Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?

[ChefRex]

Some of my SO wrenches have a satin finish, they lost their luster years ago.

 

[neophyte]

It's the other way.

The nylon nut test was for a smooth jaw versus a modified open end like an FD+, icon, proto asd, etc. The reason to use nylon was so you didn't need 80ft/lb on a 8" wrench to see the difference.

The test wasn't really about different types of modified open ends, it was supposed to show a modified open end versus flat jaws.


Now, TTC released another video with actual bolts, where snap on won every single test by various margins. Craftsman was a big winner too. But now that test will go unposted here because "it's all the same icon is just cheaper" as a narrative falls apart with that data.

I bet Wright would still best snap on.

Here’s the Torque Test guy’s video.

Yes Snap-On won against the Icon wrench, in several different types of tests.
Both the Snap-On wrench, and the Icon wrench, and a particular Stanley wrench beat the Pittsburg wrench that was tested by a long shot.
The Icon wrenches didn’t really perform badly though.
The particular Stanley wrenches tested came out very well.
The Icon wrenches cost a quarter of what the Snap-On wrenches cost, and still came out decently enough to be considered professional or Industrial quality.
The Snap-On wrenches were a bit thinner as well.

As for the nylon bolt test, the humor at Snap-On’s expense, was because it was Snap-On’s test, that Snap-On and their franchisees used to sell wrenches, to customers, and Icon beat the Snap-On wrench in SO’s own test.

As for soft nylon nuts, or other materials, I have come across them occasionally, so knowing what wrench is better for those is probably decent knowledge to have, although I suspect a decent flare wrench or adjustable wrench would be the best solution, and Snap-On usually comes out top in those tests.

 

[nicks78camaro]

Before Amazon had every tool imaginable, HF or tool trucks basically were the option for "need it now" automotive type stuff.

I'm waiting on approval to confirm a coolant leak location and press ball joints in a duramax. I don't have the flywheel lock tool, and back in the day even with $50 "next day air" you still may be waiting 3 days if the snap-on man or whoever can't drive you one down for 4X what they sell for on the internet.

For me, this began a process of pre-buying tools. Trying to always have a large collection of decent-ish specialty items to modify or make do with. Yeah, the HF power steering puller sucked balls. But it did remove pulleys, made me money, and did the job. You basically needed a bunch of options pre-bought or you were at the mercy of what was available. And a customer might walk over a bad enough wait time.

That's basically my specialty now, time. I can often get you in same day, for basically any concern on any type of car. Less the jag/LR trash, **** those cars. Anyways my employer may charge 50% MORE than Audi for the same diag and repair. Audi is 2 weeks out. Your car is already out of inspection. Ford is also several weeks out, your water pump is locked up. Hell I'm buying the parts from that very dealer, but their delivery is a lot faster than their shop moves.

Now thanks to Amazon I can 1-day ship the duramax lock if need be. IDK what I'll do about labor because looking at it, and doing a bit of research, it looks like book time is pretty generous. Counterpoint, diesel shops and GM are always backlogged, I'm available today, and that crank bolt is TIGHT.

"that's more than my normal mechanic and/or the dealer but they're weeks behind"

Turnaround time and convenience cost money!

 

[dchawk81]

Before Amazon had every tool imaginable, HF or tool trucks basically were the option for "need it now" automotive type stuff.

I'm waiting on approval to confirm a coolant leak location and press ball joints in a duramax. I don't have the flywheel lock tool, and back in the day even with $50 "next day air" you still may be waiting 3 days if the snap-on man or whoever can't drive you one down for 4X what they sell for on the internet.

For me, this began a process of pre-buying tools. Trying to always have a large collection of decent-ish specialty items to modify or make do with. Yeah, the HF power steering puller sucked balls. But it did remove pulleys, made me money, and did the job. You basically needed a bunch of options pre-bought or you were at the mercy of what was available. And a customer might walk over a bad enough wait time.

That's basically my specialty now, time. I can often get you in same day, for basically any concern on any type of car. Less the jag/LR trash, **** those cars. Anyways my employer may charge 50% MORE than Audi for the same diag and repair. Audi is 2 weeks out. Your car is already out of inspection. Ford is also several weeks out, your water pump is locked up. Hell I'm buying the parts from that very dealer, but their delivery is a lot faster than their shop moves.

Now thanks to Amazon I can 1-day ship the duramax lock if need be. IDK what I'll do about labor because looking at it, and doing a bit of research, it looks like book time is pretty generous. Counterpoint, diesel shops and GM are always backlogged, I'm available today, and that crank bolt is TIGHT.

I'm thinking about pre-buying the Mack/Volvo injector and cup tool to have it for the same reasons. It's expensive but so is extended downtime.

 

[mudflap]

not afraid. Concerned, yes. We have bike lanes and shoulders on the highways. That's where I ride mostly. Cyclists don't cause traffic jams here. I will take the lane out past the distance from an out swinging door if there is no shoulder and cars are parked along the way. It's legal to do so and I do it because car drivers that park never look before they open their doors. I've Seen a guy get "doored", I've had them opened up as I came by, but alas I was outside the radius.

Getting run over from behind is rare. My closest call was when a car passed me and then went to make a right into a parking lot in front of me. I almost ended up T-boning him, but I yelled out, he stopped and I was able to squeeze through unscathed between the car and the curb/driveway. It was maybe a foot or two and things seemed to go in slow motion as it happened. I was on the highway and I was likely traveling about 25 mph, much faster than a "guy tootling around on a bike". I suppose he misjudged my speed. He shouldn't have as that stretch of highway is know for the go fast cyclist so to speak.

We also have bike paths along the beach and some parks. Those are more dangerous than any highway in my opinion. That's were "people on bikes" and roller bladers and joggers go. They're wearing earphones and not paying attention and many aren't that skilled from what I've observed. There's no point for me to ride there. I believe the legal speed limit is 10 mph there anyway and that's likely a good thing.

Sounds like they have the bike thing figured out there in Cali. With the bike lanes and all. If you see an adult riding a bike here in Ohio, its probably because they lost their drivers license..lol. Stay safe..

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Here’s the Torque Test guy’s video.

Yes Snap-On won against the Icon wrench, in several different types of tests.
Both the Snap-On wrench, and the Icon wrench, and a particular Stanley wrench beat the Pittsburg wrench that was tested by a long shot.
The Icon wrenches didn’t really perform badly though.
The particular Stanley wrenches tested came out very well.
The Icon wrenches cost a quarter of what the Snap-On wrenches cost, and still came out decently enough to be considered professional or Industrial quality.
The Snap-On wrenches were a bit thinner as well.

As for the nylon bolt test, the humor at Snap-On’s expense, was because it was Snap-On’s test, that Snap-On and their franchisees used to sell wrenches, to customers, and Icon beat the Snap-On wrench in SO’s own test.

As for soft nylon nuts, or other materials, I have come across them occasionally, so knowing what wrench is better for those is probably decent knowledge to have, although I suspect a decent flare wrench or adjustable wrench would be the best solution, and Snap-On usually comes out top in those tests.

I bet a cheapo Chinese $9.99 pipe wrench would dominate the nylon nut test besting all challengers.

I'm thinking about pre-buying the Mack/Volvo injector and cup tool to have it for the same reasons. It's expensive but so is extended downtime.

"It do be like that".

That and just the aggravation of no tool, sitting dead in the water. Is it just cup/seal failure with the injectors being okay? Might be worth swapping them prior to failure if they're a known issue.

 

[Ultradog MN]

@Ultradog MN says we believe the tools are “sprinkled with fairy dust”. Apparently only he knows the truth.

You sound young.
Tools do not make a mechanic.
Skills and experience make mechanics.
I can pull the 8 speed transmission out of one of my Ford tractors and put new bearings and shift rails in it. But no way do I consider myself a wrench. And no way do I need S O tools to do it.
The tools and machines I enjoy using and collecting are for use in my hobby/home machine shop.
I like good old USA brands like Starrett, Aloris, Dorian, Brown & Sharp, Heinrich, Monarch, Bridgeport, Johnson, Darex, Sioux, Greenerd, Baldor, Wilton, Criterion, Kurt, Greenlee, Huot, Union, Cleveland, Nicholson, Lincoln, Victor, Miller, Tweco etc, etc.
I also like some foreign tools. Brands you likely have never heard of from Japan, Sweden, Germany, Spain, Poland, UK and Israel - to name a few.
They give me pride of ownership and they are very good tools. I am attached to my tools. But I'm not a tool snob because I know they do not have fairy dust in them nor do they make me one whit better as a machinist or welder than a guy who uses cheap China made tools and has more and better skills than I do.
Some guys seem to think tools make the man. They don't. They make a man able to make a living. They can make him happy to own and use them, they may increase his productivity. And for many of us they are fun to use.
But they don't make the man.
The more tools you own the more jobs you can do accurately and efficiently - if you have the skills.
I do know a little about tools and not just the primarily simple hand tools that Snap On sells.
So please - don't try to blow any more fairy dust in my eyes.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

What do you mean by clearance? The thickness of the head, or the fitment on a fastener? I'm a little lost here. You also used two different adjectives. "Tight" and "low."

Because not everyone cares how thick a wrench is. It's not an issue for everyone.

I'm pretty sure everyone wants their wrench to fit as snug as possible without being a PITA to use (RBRT is not practical for normal wrenching because of how tight the fit is).

He's talking fitment versus a fastener.

Like you said, if something is too tight a fit like snapon FDX sockets they're a pain to use.

So the goal is to have a 19mm wrench with a very low tolerance above 19mm. Not so tight you can't use it, but a tighter fit works.

For instance a good wrench may be 19.15mm, and some dollar store "drop forged" brand may be 19.20mm. A tight wrench, socket, tool as a low tolerance above the fastener size.


Fun example, it's easy to scale up a turbine, but really hard to scale it down, why? For a turbine to properly flow air, the clearance between the fan blade and the outer case must be very tight. However, our limiting factor isn't how small we can make the turbine, it's the tolerance between the fan blade and the housing. If our minimum clearance is.... 2 thou, it doesn't matter if the blade is 1 foot or 10, neither can be tighter to the wall than 2 thou.

This is the same principle which makes a 36mm socket "good enough" to remove a 35mm axle nut, but an 8mm socket doesn't even touch the flats of a 7mm fastener. If our maximum precision is 1mm, that doesn't really matter on big stuff but it sure does on small stuff.

 

[Meursault74]

Sounds like they have the bike thing figured out there in Cali. With the bike lanes and all. If you see an adult riding a bike here in Ohio, its probably because they lost their drivers license..lol. Stay safe..

We're more bike friendly here I guess. When I'm on my bike and I get to a 4 way stop sign and I'm just about stopped, 9 times out of 10 the driver will wave me to go through even if I don't have the right of way. Saves me from unclipping from my pedals. I usually wave a cyclist through when I'm in my car. Mind you when I'm on my bike I am preparing to stop at all the signs. Some people on bikes blow through stops sign though. That's not OK. I see more of electric scooter riders do that though. Here's how we feel about those scooters...............

Sometime those things are just laid out anywhere on the sidewalk.

 

[dchawk81]

Sounds like they have the bike thing figured out there in Cali. With the bike lanes and all. If you see an adult riding a bike here in Ohio, its probably because they lost their drivers license..lol. Stay safe..

Lawn mower = too many DUIs around here.

 

[dchawk81]

I bet a cheapo Chinese $9.99 pipe wrench would dominate the nylon nut test besting all challengers.



"It do be like that".

That and just the aggravation of no tool, sitting dead in the water. Is it just cup/seal failure with the injectors being okay? Might be worth swapping them prior to failure if they're a known issue.

Usually the cups go for whatever reason. Sometimes injectors fail. I don't know what makes cups fail but I try to run non-biodiesel and keep up on my filters and treat what goes in the tank just to improve my odds.

I'm not having any issues right now and IIRC they were already done by the PO. I'd have to dig out the records they gave me to confirm.

I just have this hunch that I should have it. I can afford a day or two of downtime but I don't know if the injectors and cups are easy to get OEM from the dealer. I do know that reman injectors are all over the internet. I don't know how good they are or if it matters.

I have a spare water pump laying here just in case as well. No special tools needed for that and it's relatively inexpensive. The only reason I'm not buying injectors in advance is they're stupid expensive for a part to have laying around.

 

[dchawk81]

He's talking fitment versus a fastener.

Like you said, if something is too tight a fit like snapon FDX sockets they're a pain to use.

So the goal is to have a 19mm wrench with a very low tolerance above 19mm. Not so tight you can't use it, but a tighter fit works.

For instance a good wrench may be 19.15mm, and some dollar store "drop forged" brand may be 19.20mm. A tight wrench, socket, tool as a low tolerance above the fastener size.


Fun example, it's easy to scale up a turbine, but really hard to scale it down, why? For a turbine to properly flow air, the clearance between the fan blade and the outer case must be very tight. However, our limiting factor isn't how small we can make the turbine, it's the tolerance between the fan blade and the housing. If our minimum clearance is.... 2 thou, it doesn't matter if the blade is 1 foot or 10, neither can be tighter to the wall than 2 thou.

This is the same principle which makes a 36mm socket "good enough" to remove a 35mm axle nut, but an 8mm socket doesn't even touch the flats of a 7mm fastener. If our maximum precision is 1mm, that doesn't really matter on big stuff but it sure does on small stuff.

I get the concept. I didn't know whether he meant that or the actual fatness of the head for getting between areas due to his verbage.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

We're more bike friendly here I guess. When I'm on my bike and I get to a 4 way stop sign and I'm just about stopped, 9 times out of 10 the driver will wave me to go through even if I don't have the right of way. Saves me from unclipping from my pedals. I usually wave a cyclist through when I'm in my car. Mind you when I'm on my bike I am preparing to stop at all the signs. Some people on bikes blow through stops sign though. That's not OK. I see more of electric scooter riders do that though. Here's how we feel about those scooters...............

Sometime those things are just laid out anywhere on the sidewalk.

A bicyclist that stops for signs and obeys the rules of the road? You need to have lots of kids to boost the population.

 

[Meursault74]

A bicyclist that stops for signs and obeys the rules of the road? You need to have lots of kids to boost the population.

The tight shorts hinder that


I used to have a bumper sticker on my car like this, I meant it.

 

[dchawk81]

The tight shorts hinder that


I used to have a bumper sticker on my car like this, I meant it.

Need to put that on the anterior of your bicycle shorts.

And I dunno no homo (nothing wrong with that) but I've seen some cyclists with impressive glutes. Both genders. Assuming you mean the shorts aren't attractive.

 

[AEAdam]

What do you mean by clearance? The thickness of the head, or the fitment on a fastener? I'm a little lost here. You also used two different adjectives. "Tight" and "low."

Because not everyone cares how thick a wrench is. It's not an issue for everyone.

I'm pretty sure everyone wants their wrench to fit as snug as possible without being a PITA to use (RBRT is not practical for normal wrenching because of how tight the fit is).

I'm really referring to TTC numbers that we're all looking at. So the clearance number is the difference between the wrench opening and the marked size. So lower numbers indicate tighter wrenches.

Thickness of an open end is a strategy tool manufacturers use to compensate for lower strength steel so thickness, regardless of your usage, could indicate a poor quality tool. In use, I've found thin wrenches generally to be better of they perform. We can't always sit perfectly straight on a nut such that an 8mm thick wrench may not fit an 8mm bolt head with an obstruction.

More: Open end wrenches are kinda last chance tools. If I could use any other tool, I would. So when you need it you really need it and you need all the help you can get (if that makes sense).

 

[dchawk81]

I'm really referring to TTC numbers that we're all looking at. So the clearance number is the difference between the wrench opening and the marked size. So lower numbers indicate tighter wrenches.

Thickness of an open end is a strategy tool manufacturers use to compensate for lower strength steel so thickness, regardless of your usage, could indicate a poor quality tool. In use, I've found thin wrenches generally to be better of they perform. We can't always sit perfectly straight on a nut such that an 8mm thick wrench may not fit an 8mm bolt head with an obstruction.

More: Open end wrenches are kinda last chance tools. If I could use any other tool, I would. So when you need it you really need it and you need all the help you can get (if that makes sense).

10-4. Just wanted to get on the same page. And I do agree with you on that.

I'm just in the camp of sometimes you just don't have the money so good enough has to be good enough. Short of so damned sloppy it won't work at all.

 

[Meursault74]

Need to put that on the anterior of your bicycle shorts.

And I dunno no homo (nothing wrong with that) but I've seen some cyclists with impressive glutes. Both genders. Assuming you mean the shorts aren't attractive.

It was a sperm count joke for the tight shorts and the twins.

edit, I wear the most loose fitting clothes off the bike.

 

[dnschmidt]

Somethings that are considered great by one observer are considered less desirable to another observer. When I gave Eric O. a lot of TOPTUL wrenches (particularly the XXL combination set) he complained about how tightly they fit since most of the garbage cars he works on have swollen bolts and nuts. Here in AZ tight is right. In upstate NY apparently it can be sometimes wrong.

 

[dchawk81]

It was a sperm count joke for the tight shorts and the twins.

edit, I wear the most loose fitting clothes off the bike.

Well damn.

 

[dchawk81]

Somethings that are considered great by one observer are considered less desirable to another observer. When I gave Eric O. a lot of TOPTUL wrenches (particularly the XXL combination set) he complained about how tightly they fit since most of the garbage cars he works on have swollen bolts and nuts. Here in AZ tight is right. In upstate NY apparently it can be sometimes wrong.

I have multiple wrench sets because of this.

Although I haven't worked on pus in a while and I'm glad for it. Even the '86 pickup and '88 semi are clean.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Somethings that are considered great by one observer are considered less desirable to another observer. When I gave Eric O. a lot of TOPTUL wrenches (particularly the XXL combination set) he complained about how tightly they fit since most of the garbage cars he works on have swollen bolts and nuts. Here in AZ tight is right. In upstate NY apparently it can be sometimes wrong.

I have multiple wrench sets because of this.

Although I haven't worked on pus in a while and I'm glad for it. Even the '86 pickup and '88 semi are clean.

It might have been Eric O who said this looking at a salt truck: "Spread it thick, rust has been good to my family" or something along those lines. It's like the people doing 10k oil changes and not checking the level - thanks for the timing jobs!

New kid we hired asked about the chevy cruze - which I responded was a massive *************. But that 1.4L LUV engine probably paid the down-payment on my house in full.

You sound young.
Tools do not make a mechanic.
Skills and experience make mechanics.
I can pull the 8 speed transmission out of one of my Ford tractors and put new bearings and shift rails in it. But no way do I consider myself a wrench. And no way do I need S O tools to do it.
The tools and machines I enjoy using and collecting are for use in my hobby/home machine shop.
I like good old USA brands like Starrett, Aloris, Dorian, Brown & Sharp, Heinrich, Monarch, Bridgeport, Johnson, Darex, Sioux, Greenerd, Baldor, Wilton, Criterion, Kurt, Greenlee, Huot, Union, Cleveland, Nicholson, Lincoln, Victor, Miller, Tweco etc, etc.
I also like some foreign tools. Brands you likely have never heard of from Japan, Sweden, Germany, Spain, Poland, UK and Israel - to name a few.
They give me pride of ownership and they are very good tools. I am attached to my tools. But I'm not a tool snob because I know they do not have fairy dust in them nor do they make me one whit better as a machinist or welder than a guy who uses cheap China made tools and has more and better skills than I do.
Some guys seem to think tools make the man. They don't. They make a man able to make a living. They can make him happy to own and use them, they may increase his productivity. And for many of us they are fun to use.
But they don't make the man.
The more tools you own the more jobs you can do accurately and efficiently - if you have the skills.
I do know a little about tools and not just the primarily simple hand tools that Snap On sells.
So please - don't try to blow any more fairy dust in my eyes.

100% man, I'm damn proud of any tool in my box. I have a HF V-groove 21mm bent at 90 degrees about 4" from the open end in my wrench drawer, and that wrench PRINTED money. Dorkman leaf shackles used to be a main-stay for me, and nobody wanted to touch them when they finally snapped in half and punched through the bed. That bend let me lay on my back, reach over the shackle, and impact the bolt into the locking nut at ride-height. I always cut you a discount if you did both, but a lot of truck beds learned that lesson twice! I can still remember what it felt like watching your vision go shaky with a 0.498 air hammer and no hearing protection while rust rained down.

"Everybody hating, we just call them fans though. In love with the money, I ain't never letting go."


EDIT: Wear hearing protection kids

 

[dchawk81]

It might have been Eric O who said this looking at a salt truck: "Spread it thick, rust has been good to my family" or something along those lines. It's like the people doing 10k oil changes and not checking the level - thanks for the timing jobs!

New kid we hired asked about the chevy cruze - which I responded was a massive *************. But that 1.4L LUV engine probably paid the down-payment on my house in full.





100% man, I'm damn proud of any tool in my box. I have a HF V-groove 21mm bent at 90 degrees about 4" from the open end in my wrench drawer, and that wrench PRINTED money. Dorkman leaf shackles used to be a main-stay for me, and nobody wanted to touch them when they finally snapped in half and punched through the bed. That bend let me lay on my back, reach over the shackle, and impact the bolt into the locking nut at ride-height. I always cut you a discount if you did both, but a lot of truck beds learned that lesson twice! I can still remember what it felt like watching your vision go shaky with a 0.498 air hammer and no hearing protection while rust rained down.

"Everybody hating, we just call them fans though. In love with the money, I ain't never letting go."


EDIT: Wear hearing protection kids

I agree! We're nearing perfection!

 

[Kurt4440]

Damn, now that's management/people skills.

Kudos for that, the world needs more people like you.

Thanks
That means a great deal to me, especially coming from a young man who is so much wiser than his age.

 

[d.mcfarland]

When was a raised panel craftsman ratchet anything but a cheap *************? I was born in 1990, so I'm genuinely curious if they were ever not complete trash.

 

[Kurt4440]

Respect. This thread is about the opposite happening from what you are thinking. If you say anything at all positive about Snap On you are labeled and derided. Reread the OP please.

I don’t recommend it but you’d have to read the comments following the video that initiated this thread.

Quick synopsis: snap on created a test to compare open end wrench clearance. In a head to head against a smooth jawed Icon, the FD+ wrench lost. (Hope I have that right). Some folks said the guy did the test wrong (he didn’t). But the overwhelming responses were how the HF did the same job or better for less money and is therefore the superior tool.

We hear that same sentiment every time anyone mentions Snap on here. It’s exhausting. @2ndGearRubber asked about colors for an Epiq box he wanted to buy and several members wanted to tell him about the value of USgeneral.

How does this sound?

We all know Snap-On makes good tools, but, sometimes the zealots beat people over the head with their message. That usually creates an us vs them scenario.

And

We all know Harbor Freight sells affordable tools, but, sometimes the zealots beat people over the head with their message. That usually creates an us vs them scenario.

We are all using tools to; save money, feel like we are capable, challenge ourselves, learn new skills, teach our children, help our neighbors, temporarily quell an innate drive to accomplish something........
Ultimately, we have more in common with each other than we do with most other people in the general population who are at a bar right now, or at home watching television.

 

[liliysdad]

The best thing about those is what people will pay for them.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I had to use one of those at my parents house to install their new washer. I basically had PTSD from how much of a ************* it was.

My parents bought me a craftsman USA blow molded set when I turned 16. I used those sockets for years, some are still in my box. But man were the ratchets awful.

 

[Mb4]

Fair enough, I guess my experiences are different.

I have a 1/2" raised panel Cman ratchet, that's been my go-to since about 1999.

That’s the point a number of us have been trying to share with you. We all have different experiences with tools. I’ve bought my share of HF tools. Some have been pretty good and others just can’t stand up to more extreme environments as well. And that’s ok. Believe you me, if I could get away with the cheapest tools for everything I do, I would do so.

 

[Ultradog MN]

He's talking fitment versus a fastener.

Like you said, if something is too tight a fit like snapon FDX sockets they're a pain to use.

So the goal is to have a 19mm wrench with a very low tolerance above 19mm. Not so tight you can't use it, but a tighter fit works.

For instance a good wrench may be 19.15mm, and some dollar store "drop forged" brand may be 19.20mm. A tight wrench, socket, tool as a low tolerance above the fastener size.


Fun example, it's easy to scale up a turbine, but really hard to scale it down, why? For a turbine to properly flow air, the clearance between the fan blade and the outer case must be very tight. However, our limiting factor isn't how small we can make the turbine, it's the tolerance between the fan blade and the housing. If our minimum clearance is.... 2 thou, it doesn't matter if the blade is 1 foot or 10, neither can be tighter to the wall than 2 thou.

This is the same principle which makes a 36mm socket "good enough" to remove a 35mm axle nut, but an 8mm socket doesn't even touch the flats of a 7mm fastener. If our maximum precision is 1mm, that doesn't really matter on big stuff but it sure does on small stuff.

You make some good points.
Part of this whole equation is the quality of the fasteners we're getting now days from China.
I'm not a mechanic so call me dumb about this if you will but I assume most auto manufacturers have decent tolerances on the bolts and nuts they use to make cars and trucks.
Grab a micrometer some time and go to the hardware store and measure some bolts across the flats of the hex head. You will find a lot of variation.
Grade 2 bolts have always been crude, grade 5 are a little better and grade 8 the best but measure a few and you'll be sad to see the lack of tolerances.
You can find 2 or 3 thousanths variation within the same box of bolts.
Folks, that is a lot. It is too much.
Now think about the tolerance variation in the wrenches we use?
Bolt heads that are tight on your wrench can be an irritation. Bolts that are loose can be a disaster. But perhaps that is the price we now pay for being a consumer oriented society for so many years - where price has been the only consideration.
I will grant that Snap On is probably right up in the top of the "Ivy League" of wrench builders but I also know there's more than one school in said Ivy League.

 

[mreisner]

I had to use one of those at my parents house to install their new washer. I basically had PTSD from how much of a ************* it was.

My parents bought me a craftsman USA blow molded set when I turned 16. I used those sockets for years, some are still in my box. But man were the ratchets awful.

In my experience those were pretty much the worst of the Craftsman ratchets. They went through various vendors over the years and some produced some ratchets that were not bad, but those oh boy!

 

[2ndGearRubber]

You make some good points.
Part of this whole equation is the quality of the fasteners we're getting now days from China.
I'm not a mechanic so call me dumb about this if you will but I assume most auto manufacturers have decent tolerances on the bolts and nuts they use to make cars and trucks.
Grab a micrometer some time and go to the hardware store and measure some bolts across the flats of the hex head. You will find a lot of variation.
Grade 2 bolts have always been crude, grade 5 are a little better and grade 8 the best but measure a few and you'll be sad to see the lack of tolerances.
You can find 2 or 3 thousanths variation within the same box of bolts.
Folks, that is a lot. It is too much.
Now think about the tolerance variation in the wrenches we use?
Bolt heads that are tight on your wrench can be an irritation. Bolts that are loose can be a disaster. But perhaps that is the price we now pay for being a consumer oriented society for so many years - where price has been the only consideration.
I will grant that Snap On is probably right up in the top of the "Ivy League" of wrench builders but I also know there's more than one school in said Ivy League.

The issue with the automakers has really become bolt head size choice. The same shank which may have used a 19mm head on it now has a 17mm head or some torx nonsense with no engagement depth. So you're often working on a fastener which just barely had enough meat on the head to tighten down when new, which is now rusted in place.

I'd agree that production vehicles have better stuff than you're going to find at the hardware store. IDK what the tolerance stack is, but I'm betting most "regular" automotive bolts don't hold 2 thou over a run as it likely doesn't matter to assembly.

 

[zendriver]

...

 

[Hakeem]

Somethings that are considered great by one observer are considered less desirable to another observer. When I gave Eric O. a lot of TOPTUL wrenches (particularly the XXL combination set) he complained about how tightly they fit since most of the garbage cars he works on have swollen bolts and nuts. Here in AZ tight is right. In upstate NY apparently it can be sometimes wrong.

The proto ASD are underrated for this. They have a loose initial fit that tightens when you crank down. I found it annoying on clean fasteners but they were easy to get on to rusted, swollen fasteners

 

[d.mcfarland]

I had to use one of those at my parents house to install their new washer. I basically had PTSD from how much of a ************* it was.

My parents bought me a craftsman USA blow molded set when I turned 16. I used those sockets for years, some are still in my box. But man were the ratchets awful.

True on both accounts! The teardrop style Craftsman raised panel were never good but somehow the sockets were worth their weight. The ratchets were cheap and accessible though.

The RHFT Craftsman raised panel was the only good raised panel handle design. The pear head style (pre RHFT) were probably good for the time were used in.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Those Craftsman ratchets were pretty bad. I like the feel but man you regret using them. My go to for at home ratchets these days is Capri, Duralast, DieHard or Power Torque. I like the Carlyle offerings too but they are expensive and it also drives me crazy they stamp the handle instead of the head of the tool. Work ratchets it’s for sure Snap-on and Matco and Capri for me. But I’d have no problem using another brand there either but ratchet is something you use all the time so you need the warranty convenience plus I love the hard handle Snap-on handles. But I don’t care what my coworker uses. We got one guy at work he uses those Pittsburgh ratchets with the reverse selector switch which would drive me crazy but it works for him so it’s his money and his tools not mine. Like the old guy at work the other day when someone got a Snap-on and Matco box he come over and started giving his opinion instead of complimenting or staying quiet about what he thought which would get on my nerves too.

 

[JeepYJ]

True on both accounts! The teardrop style Craftsman raised panel were never good but somehow the sockets were worth their weight. The ratchets were cheap and accessible though.

The RHFT Craftsman raised panel was the only good raised panel handle design. The pear head style (pre RHFT) were probably good for the time were used in.

The “best” fine tooth (45 tooth!) 1/2” drive Craftsman ratchet was $19.99 in 1982. That’s >$65 in 2024 money. I wouldn’t say they were cheap ratchets for their time.

 

[Plastikosmd]

I’d consider them if at a flea market
Otherwise, no

 

[mikey03]

TLLF72 lives in the cart, so I usually don't go to the box to find the astro. I've been changing up the ratchet layout a bit in the cart, and I'm considering both selling some rarely used ones, and moving stuff like that astro into the cart. I have a 9" proto 1/4 I don't love, and that astro might replace it. It feels so stupid/awkward to use though.

Sounds like you got alot of sweet tools and do this stuff professionally so I’d love to hear what your most used ratchets are!

 

[mikey03]

Some people want to buy once, cry once so to speak (although there are truly only a few types of tools with which you can do that).

what types of tools can you do that with? And what can’t you?