Why does Snap-On continuously make people rage?

[Rabid Badger]

My parents bought me a craftsman USA blow molded set when I turned 16. I used those sockets for years, some are still in my box. But man were the ratchets awful.

This one?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

True on both accounts! The teardrop style Craftsman raised panel were never good but somehow the sockets were worth their weight. The ratchets were cheap and accessible though.

The RHFT Craftsman raised panel was the only good raised panel handle design. The pear head style (pre RHFT) were probably good for the time were used in.

What was wild about my 90s/2000s Usa sockets is they DID NOT WEAR. They had too much lead in taper which hurt their grip, and they were thick, but they just didn't wear at all.

The inverse of this is snap on. Notice they make few/none aviation grade sockets outside of specific spline types. Whereas proto has regular sockets and the thinner aviation stuff, a socket you buy off the tool truck is an "aviaition" style socket with very thin walls. Which is why they crack, and wear, much worse than the "thicker than a Latina volleyball team" Craftsman.

This one?

Very close, my set had an open section in the middle for storage.

3/8 and 1/4 metric and sae, plus a nut driver handle?

 

[AEAdam]

What was wild about my 90s/2000s Usa sockets is they DID NOT WEAR. They had too much lead in taper which hurt their grip, and they were thick, but they just didn't wear at all.

The inverse of this is snap on. Notice they make few/none aviation grade sockets outside of specific spline types. Whereas proto has regular sockets and the thinner aviation stuff, a socket you buy off the tool truck is an "aviaition" style socket with very thin walls. Which is why they crack, and wear, much worse than the "thicker than a Latina volleyball team" Craftsman.



Very close, my set had an open section in the middle for storage.

3/8 and 1/4 metric and sae, plus a nut driver handle?

You lost me. Some US military O level maintenance teams have proto. Aircraft manufacture is 100% Snap On. USAF, Space Force, NASA all Snap On.

We don’t have special aviation style tools. Just SAE 12pt chrome SO. The NASA stuff I’ve worked on appeared to have the fewest tools. I saw bluepoint wrenches in one hanger. I thought that facility was under tooled (so I fixed it).

I have 12pt industrial finish SO and they look super thin, but that could just be how all 12pts look.

I’ve never seen industrial finished aviation tools in any hanger I’ve been in in the past 30yrs. I have seen USMC kits with industrial finished Proto. Unlike some of my friends, I’ve never worked on an aircraft carrier. Not sure what tools those guys use.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Those Craftsman ratchets were pretty bad. I like the feel but man you regret using them. My go to for at home ratchets these days is Capri, Duralast, DieHard or Power Torque. I like the Carlyle offerings too but they are expensive and it also drives me crazy they stamp the handle instead of the head of the tool. Work ratchets it’s for sure Snap-on and Matco and Capri for me. But I’d have no problem using another brand there either but ratchet is something you use all the time so you need the warranty convenience plus I love the hard handle Snap-on handles. But I don’t care what my coworker uses. We got one guy at work he uses those Pittsburgh ratchets with the reverse selector switch which would drive me crazy but it works for him so it’s his money and his tools not mine. Like the old guy at work the other day when someone got a Snap-on and Matco box he come over and started giving his opinion instead of complimenting or staying quiet about what he thought which would get on my nerves too.

I don't really mind the "backwards" lever until I'm upside down and backwards feeling for a fastener and the ratchet is then going to wrong way. The ratchet I first dropped onto the top of the trans because the hole my hand fits through I cant get the ratchet through at the same time. Grrrr

Sounds like you got alot of sweet tools and do this stuff professionally so I’d love to hear what your most used ratchets are!

1/4 I have the tllf72, a t72, and the stubby flex 72 snap on in the cart, plus a standard length Matco locking flex and the 9" proto.

3/8 I keep an Sk flex head, matco88 locking flex, fl80, flex head F100, and the 3/8 in 1/4 body flex head snap on. 3/8 will be getting shaken up when I get my new cart. 1/4 will likely stay the same.

what types of tools can you do that with? And what can’t you?

Well if we all agreed on that Ryan could just let the domain expire and we could all move on with our lives.

I think he means you're never going to have a whole career where you buy once cry once, because over a 40+ year career your needs and options for tools will evolve and you'll never be able to be completely done buying stuff. For my trade you're not getting much more than 40 before your body is just worn out and it's over for you. It was 102 plus humidity in the shop yesterday, filling out state inspection BS paperwork, using torches, kneeling, breaker bars, etc. Your body just will not put up with it forever. The human body, in my opinion, is a 30 year max use/throw away tool, really all it's designed to do 5000 years ago. That really warps your perception because there is a fixed number of movements my pointer fingers have before they're junk. So efficiency and ease become king to me.

I was reviewing my Social Security income statements, confirming they're correct now rather than when I'm old. $1000 tool that I can make 10k with is easy money. No different than investing, except I can invest with worn out joints, but not fix cars.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

You lost me. Some US military O level maintenance teams have proto. Aircraft manufacture is 100% Snap On. USAF, Space Force, NASA all Snap On.

We don’t have special aviation style tools. Just SAE 12pt chrome SO. The NASA stuff I’ve worked on appeared to have the fewest tools. I saw bluepoint wrenches in one hanger. I thought that facility was under tooled (so I fixed it).

I have 12pt industrial finish SO and they look super thin, but that could just be how all 12pts look.

I’ve never seen industrial finished aviation tools in any hanger I’ve been in in the past 30yrs. I have seen USMC kits with industrial finished Proto. Unlike some of my friends, I’ve never worked on an aircraft carrier. Not sure what tools those guys use.

Proto has two lines, regular and "aircraft" sized sockets. It's on their website somewhere. Wall thickness, max torque applied per size, they have the normal and the "aerospace" lines. Some stuff crosses over, but not all. It's not that Proto doesn't make it, but it's a different line, I believe indicated as "aerospace compliant".

Difference being that's what Snap on sockets are so thin and dainty, and thus wear and crack relatively easily versus othe brands. Difference is my Proto 12pt deeps are too chunky for a lot of head bolts. A truly great investment on me, should have bought the much thinner USA Williams. Snap on doesn't have the two lines, all the sockets are inherently complaint as that's just the pattern of socket they use. Outside specialty height/spline/etc applications that is.

For.instance a snap on 3/8 drive 8mm and a Proto of the same size have a massive difference in size.

 

[ecotec]

I started out with raised panel Craftsman. I even tried to use it in a professional environment. In the average year. I was breaking about three ratchets. I got my 3/8” drive replaced about 12 times.

I found an SK ratchet for $.50 at a garage sale and never broke another ratchet.

I used that SK ratchet for years. It is still on my workbench. I tried an Armstrong for a minute, but didn’t like it as much as the SK. I eventually found a high tooth count Wright, which is the ratchet in my work tools to this day.

To those who say that Craftsman raised panel ratchets were not cheap back in the day… I would argue that point. They were often on sale at arguably quite cheap prices. They were “good enough” ratchets for cheap… but they were far from good.

 

[Rabid Badger]

Very close, my set had an open section in the middle for storage.

3/8 and 1/4 metric and sae, plus a nut driver handle?

I had to pick up my driver handle separately.

My set was exactly like the one in the picture, but that story you told was eerily familiar.

I still have all the original sockets, save the 1/4 deep 10mm. I lost that one doing an odd job. When I went to Sears to get a replacement, all the stock had switched over to made in China. On my way out I spotted a clearance bin containing what remained of the USA production tools, including a single 1/4 deep 10mm socket and a nut driver handle.

 

[JeepYJ]

To those who say that Craftsman raised panel ratchets were not cheap back in the day… I would argue that point. They were often on sale at arguably quite cheap prices. They were “good enough” ratchets for cheap… but they were far from good.

At 50% off sale that would still be a $30+ ratchet today. A cheap Pittsburgh 1/2” 72 tooth ratchet is $15 before any sales or coupons. Probably a better ratchet for less than half the money.

 

[Mb4]

what types of tools can you do that with? And what can’t you?

Really depends on the particular application and type of use they get. But here’s a general idea, for a few different categories:

Striking tools: Estwing. The waffle hammers will wear out and you can wreck one using it to bust up concrete, but aside from that, their tools are practically “forever” tools. And not particularly pricey.

Measuring tools: American made Starrett, Mitutoyo, or anything from Hexagon metrology. Expensive, but excellent accuracy. These would be buy once cry once deals, if you don’t abuse, keep clean, and don’t drop them.

Carpentry hand tools: Planes/chisels from Lie Nielsen or Veritas

Multitools: Leatherman, Victorinox.

Ratchets and wrenches are a little different. Presuming you don’t overload them, keep the ratchets clean it will be a long time before a rebuild. SnapOn and Proto are top of the line. SK used to be pretty good too. I’ve never had an adjustable wrench fail and was always partial to Williams.

Those are just some examples off the top of my head. Power tools are a different story because everything is an DC motor with batteries. I don’t think there are any “buy it for life” power tools made today from the context of a professional setting but I could be wrong. As far as the hand tools listed above, most of those tools could last several or more professional lifetimes.

 

[Fusion13]

Are you basing this on anything factual? Snap On tool sales remain strong. Company stock is strong. I’ve seen no evidence of quality fade. I think you are maybe referring to the buzz you are hearing, which is nothing more than rumors.

Snap On is a funny company. When the US economy suffers a down turn, people hold on to the cars they’ve got and have them fixed, which stimulates car repair businesses. When the economy is strong, techs upgrade, big businesses expand operations.

In USG contracting, when we are awarded new or more business, we buy tools. 5 new loaded orange epiqs just showed up at work. I shudder to think what they cost. We probably have a few hundred of them now. They have the electronic tool control. I’ve never seen orange at work before. Really striking boxes.

Had multiple sockets break lately on bolts/nuts where they shouldn't of broke... Multiple ratchets tear the guts out for 0 reason.... Just poor quality IMO and hearing it from many others as well

 

[sightbike]

Wading through this thread has been interesting and figured I’d offer opinion.

In terms of Snap-on invoking jealousy, it’s odd but as stated before we all have confirmation bias based on the experience - and largely what we’ve been taught/told that is often not challenged. The comments about picking sides are likely valid too. Personally, I do not care what someone uses as more interested in their skillset, critical thinking ability, and capacity to solve problems.

I am just a DIYer who prefers Williams and Snap On. Started with Craftsman and have Harbor Freight but always wanted quality USA made tools. To build my current setup, I scoured sales, FB marketplace, Offerup, EBay, and GJ. Never stepped foot on Snap-on truck or paid retail. Buying Snap-on tools at or below HF Icon is possible. We can argue all day long on whether one is better/worth the price, but I think one thing always holds true: Snap-on retains value over HF. Maybe that’s important to you, maybe not; however, having the ability to recoup and even profit from my tools is a nice bonus.

At the end of that day, enjoy using whatever you have and ignore the negative comments.

 

[zendriver]

, but I think one thing always holds true: Snap-on retains value over HF.

Monetary value?

Wonder if those that shop at HF, even care.

I know I don't.

 

[sightbike]

Monetary value?

Wonder if those that shop at HF, even care.

I know I don't.

Referring solely to resale. Not a primary driver from my perspective which is why I called a bonus.

 

[JeepYJ]

Referring solely to resale. Not a primary driver from my perspective which is why I called a bonus.

Resale as a percentage of original cost recouped or just pure dollars?
$1000 worth of SO might resell for $700 and it wouldn’t be many tools, equivalent to maybe $100-200 of HF brands.

 

[mudflap]

This one?

The only good thing about those ratchets is.. they have 0 - backdrag. I keep one around. Sometimes it comes in handy for that reason.

 

[PMD1966]

I think I just own 2 SnapOn sockets but I own some Festool tools so I know how it goes

A lot of people seem to take things personal and make it about themselves and their views.

Like that I bought that brand to show them that I am better than them.

I would care less if I could.

You also overpay by getting big red or yellow etc tools too right?

If following through with that logic we might as well all use Harbor Freight tools, shop at Dollar General and drive a Yugo.
.

I have 2 SnapOn screwdrivers. They are kept in a velvet lined, lockable box and brought out to show off to my friends.

 

[sightbike]

Resale as a percentage of original cost recouped or just pure dollars?
$1000 worth of SO might resell for $700 and it wouldn’t be many tools, equivalent to maybe $100-200 of HF brands.

Meant recouping actual cost to purchase, ignore retail/MSRP.

Although unlikely, the example of $1000 Snap-on tools selling for $700 proves my point (70% cost recouped by seller). Using the same percentage, you will not get $140 for $200 of HF tools. I contend no one selling HF tools would even be able to recoup 40-50% of the original purchase price. Why? Buyers automatically assumes the seller used the 20% coupon on the original purchase and then will heavily discount their offer. I see tons of HF ICON stuff listed locally just sit if not offered at bargain basement prices - and that’s new in box/used a couple times. The resale value for HF tools just isn’t there.

Again I have never paid retail and shop for deals. They are out there, you just have to be patient. On that note, I wouldn’t pay $700 for $1000 of Snap-on tools and will admit my worst purchases in terms of paying a higher percentage of retail cost has been Snap-on ratchets.

 

[JeepYJ]

Meant recouping actual cost to purchase, ignore retail/MSRP.

Although unlikely, the example of $1000 Snap-on tools selling for $700 proves my point (70% cost recouped by seller). Using the same percentage, you will not get $140 for $200 of HF tools. I contend no one selling HF tools would even be able to recoup 40-50% of the original purchase price. Why? Buyers automatically assumes the seller used the 20% coupon on the original purchase and then will heavily discount their offer. I see tons of HF ICON stuff listed locally just sit if not offered at bargain basement prices - and that’s new in box/used a couple times. The resale value for HF tools just isn’t there.

So if $1000 of SO tools probably wouldn’t retail for $700 then if you spent $300 on HF tools you could throw on the garbage and be out the same money.

 

[sightbike]

So if $1000 of SO tools probably wouldn’t retail for $700 then if you spent $300 on HF tools you could throw on the garbage and be out the same money.

Valid point and definitely another way to look at it.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

So if $1000 of SO tools probably wouldn’t retail for $700 then if you spent $300 on HF tools you could throw on the garbage and be out the same money.

That's why % don't work that well for anything but percentages.

When there's such a massive difference in cost it doesn't mean much. Now, one can liquidate and convert high initial cost tools into actual money much more easily. The counterpoint to that is just to buy HF and save the difference, but I think for a lot of the population they're not legitimately cross shopping proto versus tekton so it's not a good faith argument. Aside from philosophical arguments whens the last time someone cross shopped paying 10k for a used car or 50k for a new one? That's the same ratio here.

That's why I always feel there's such a disconnect in this conversations. Unless a party is willing to actually buy both options, it's just a thought experiment.

 

[dchawk81]

That's why % don't work that well for anything but percentages.

When there's such a massive difference in cost it doesn't mean much. Now, one can liquidate and convert high initial cost tools into actual money much more easily. The counterpoint to that is just to buy HF and save the difference, but I think for a lot of the population they're not legitimately cross shopping proto versus tekton so it's not a good faith argument. Aside from philosophical arguments whens the last time someone cross shopped paying 10k for a used car or 50k for a new one? That's the same ratio here.

That's why I always feel there's such a disconnect in this conversations. Unless a party is willing to actually buy both options, it's just a thought experiment.

Well I actually did buy almost all the options. I actually own Snap on (6pt), Snap on flare, Mac (RBRT 6pt), HyperTough (12pt), vintage Craftsman (12 and 6 pt), Gearwrench (6pt), no name or COO (12pt), Duratech (12pt), Capri (12pt), Amazon Alphabet (12pt) all in sets, plus randoms of Tone, Amazon Alphabet Soup, Jobsmart, etc.

I have a myriad of ratchets from SO, Carlyle, Powerbuilt, Kobalt, etc.

I have Sunex sockets, Kobalt sockets, GW sockets, vintage Armstrong USA sockets, and SO sockets.

I may not use them all in a shop daily professionally for a specific living but they've all turned fasteners on both my personal vehicles as well as the semi that does make me a living.

I know what different quality feels like.

N/M wasn't paying attention. Thought it was about experience of use not resale. I don't buy my stuff caring a hoot about resale.

 

[toolenthusiast]

As an engineer I thought my Porsche was designed by amateurs. A prime directive in engineering is simplify.

1) Meet the design requirement
2) Do it safely
3) Make budget
4-8) Do it simply and/or elegantly and/or novelly and/or in such a way as to impress your engineer friends and/or in a way that’s interesting enough to fuel the marketing department’s next campaign

They used to make simple Porsches. I have a 356 and a 991 sitting side-by-side in my shop. Almost no one would walk into a Porsche dealer in 2024 and ask how to go 83 mph.

Furthermore, I would submit that the 356 is simple and the 991 is elegant.

 

[gungatim]

I have 2 SnapOn screwdrivers. They are kept in a velvet lined, lockable box and brought out to show off to my friends.

I keep mine in a special box as well.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

1) Meet the design requirement
2) Do it safely
3) Make budget
4-8) Do it simply and/or elegantly and/or novelly and/or in such a way as to impress your engineer friends and/or in a way that’s interesting enough to fuel the marketing department’s next campaign

They used to make simple Porsches. I have a 356 and a 991 sitting side-by-side in my shop. Almost no one would walk into a Porsche dealer in 2024 and ask how to go 83 mph.

Furthermore, I would submit that the 356 is simple and the 991 is elegant.

Hey 83 is pretty quick!

I'm not sure how much faster you'd want a ~60yo car to go. LOL. I certainly was aware I could drag my fingers on the ground while driving an MG TD or similar.

 

[DAustin]

When I started working on cars (my own) I was working part time pumping gas making something like $1.25 an hour. I had as much of a chance buying SO as I would have had buying a Ferrari. Craftsman was almost out of my reach, but my folks would get them for me for X-Mas and birthdays. Were they the best tools, maybe not but I was able to do a lot with them. I guess I didn't know any better back then.

 

[blown94conv]

When you’re buying cheap tools, who cares about resale? Think anyone is excited to inherit a garage full of Harbor Freight?

Not likey, they will just toss them in the trash and move on.

 

[neophyte]

For those bashing used Harbor Freight tools and resale value,
Nobody knows what the future will hold.
USA made Craftsman tools used to be fairly affordable, and readily available at mire affordable sale prices, to anyone who had a local Sears.
Nowadays, the tools are selling for a premium on eBay, especially in new or like new condition, and trying to purchase similar quality new tools, especially if USA made, will cost a few times what the older Craftsman tools used to cost new.
The cheap Harbor Freight tools may not appreciate in value, but until recently, the Russian made anvils Harbor Freight offered at one point were basically the most affordable actual steel anvils available, and some people were probably paying a couple times or mire what HF originally sold the anvils for, because there weren’t other options.
As far as the Icon snd similar “premium” HF copies of other tools go, they may not be up to the quality of actual Snap-On or Knipex tools, but they are close enough to be worthwhile, and it they get discontinued, or become unavailable, I can fully see the tools going for double the original HF retail price, simply because it would still be cheaper than used beat to sh!t Snap-On tools on eBay.
Also, the fit and finish on the HF tools is apparently better than Snap-On in some cases, even if the underlying materials and heat treat probably aren’t as good.
As for the HF Knipex clones, the push button mechanism works smoother than the actual Knipex push button, although it also lacks the replacement parts option Knipex offers.

 

[JeepYJ]

trying to purchase similar quality new tools, especially if USA made, will cost a few times what the older Craftsman tools used to cost new.

Not really. I posted a Sears flyer earlier that showed a Craftsman 1/2” drive “best” ratchet would be about $65 today. Wright has a similar style low tooth count ratchet that you can get for <$60 today.

 

[Mb4]

For those bashing used Harbor Freight tools and resale value,
Nobody knows what the future will hold.
USA made Craftsman tools used to be fairly affordable, and readily available at mire affordable sale prices, to anyone who had a local Sears.
Nowadays, the tools are selling for a premium on eBay, especially in new or like new condition, and trying to purchase similar quality new tools, especially if USA made, will cost a few times what the older Craftsman tools used to cost new.
The cheap Harbor Freight tools may not appreciate in value, but until recently, the Russian made anvils Harbor Freight offered at one point were basically the most affordable actual steel anvils available, and some people were probably paying a couple times or mire what HF originally sold the anvils for, because there weren’t other options.
As far as the Icon snd similar “premium” HF copies of other tools go, they may not be up to the quality of actual Snap-On or Knipex tools, but they are close enough to be worthwhile, and it they get discontinued, or become unavailable, I can fully see the tools going for double the original HF retail price, simply because it would still be cheaper than used beat to sh!t Snap-On tools on eBay.
Also, the fit and finish on the HF tools is apparently better than Snap-On in some cases, even if the underlying materials and heat treat probably aren’t as good.
As for the HF Knipex clones, the push button mechanism works smoother than the actual Knipex push button, although it also lacks the replacement parts option Knipex offers.

These are all very good points. There’s nothing wrong with budget tools, just like there’s nothing wrong with premium tools. Whatever works for someone’s budget and application is the best tool for the job.

 

[nicks78camaro]

Does anyone actually buy tools based on resale value, other than for a piece of equipment or specialty tool for a one time job?

 

[JeepYJ]

Does anyone actually buy tools based on resale value, other than for a piece of equipment or specialty tool for a one time job?

For a one time job I think most people look at the return policy

 

[mreisner]

what types of tools can you do that with? And what can’t you?

Bjp1 Snap-on ball joint press would be one that comes to mind for me. I've used lots of other ones over the decades and nothing comes close. I've read and seen pictures of the new icon one breaking and stripping screws already. For lighter cars and trucks it's probably perfect, but three quarter and one tons and heavy truck stuff the BJP1 has served me well and if I had to I would absolutely buy it again in a heartbeat.

 

[Boogerman]

"Tell me you're a cheapskate, without saying it"

I have 2 SnapOn screwdrivers. They are kept in a velvet lined, lockable box and brought out to show off to my friends.

I have a few Snap-on screwdrivers, dumped into a $19,000 dollar lockable box (kept unlocked) that was purchased for $12,000 + old box trade in. I don't have any friends to show them to, thus I keep it unlocked. I'm not a skilled mechanic, the best I can do is own the gear. Kind of like wearing Nike shoes and Underarmor shirts.

 

[Mb4]

Does anyone actually buy tools based on resale value, other than for a piece of equipment or specialty tool for a one time job?

Some people do, but it’s a little rarer than the discussion would have you think. Some people like knowing that they can get money back for their tools. Really depends on the person.

In the proper context, tools are an investment insofar as they help you get your job more efficiently. Not so much for resale value but if they make you less fatigued, allow you to do things faster, a few seconds here and a few minutes there per job can add up to the tool being worth the premium over a few months.

 

[shoggoth80]

They're a means to an end. They're either making me money, saving me money, or saving me hassle. Never once bought one thinking about resale.

 

[AEAdam]

For those bashing used Harbor Freight tools and resale value,
Nobody knows what the future will hold.

I didn’t read anyone bashing anything.

The reality is, maybe because Snap On is regarded so highly, or maybe because you can’t simply drive to a store to buy Snap On tools, they fetch high prices second hand. Also true is that models don’t change much. So flankdrive + wrenches I bought for $200 10 years ago are currently retailing for over $400. So I could literally sell my tools for what I paid for them. Forget about depreciation. Few of my SO tools have depreciated.

The reason this subject came up is some folks claimed Snap On tools to be bad choices financially when decent tools can be had for much less money. So the argument is, how much does it cost you to work on a car? We think only in terms of start up cost/initial purchase price. We never (unless I bring it up) discuss cost avoidance, value of our time, aggravation (not that aggravation is necessarily avoidable by spending more on tools). I hope we can agree, our view of tool cost is myopic and sophomoric.

To have a grown up discussion about tool costs, we need to discuss further what we're doing with them, how long we will own them, how much use we get, how we estimate the value of our personal time etc. Just as one would with any business expense.

I think it’s fair to say:

• we shouldn't be so certain of the financial superiority of a tool purchase. Cheap tools could be cheap, or they could be expensive. Expensive tools could be really cheap.
• the sweeping generalities, example: "all snap on owners are....", "People buy Snap On tools because...." are inaccurate, & unhelpful nonsense. It's stereotyping and prejudice as wrong as any other.

 

[toolenthusiast]

I didn’t read anyone bashing anything.

The reality is, maybe because Snap On is regarded so highly, and because you can’t simply drive to a store to buy Snap On tools they fetch high prices second hand. Also true is that models don’t change much. So flankdrive + wrenches I bought for $200 10 years ago are currently retailing for over $400. So I could literally sell my tools for what I paid for them. Forget about depreciation.

The reason this subject came up is some folks claimed Snap On tools to be bad choices financially when decent tools can be had for much less money. So the argument is, how much does it cost you to work on a car? We think only in terms of start up cost/initial purchase price. We never (unless I bring it up) discuss cost avoidance. I hope we can agree, our view of tool cost is myopic and sophomoric.

To have a grown up discussion about tool costs, we need to discuss further what we're doing with them, how long we will own them, how much use we get, how we estimate the value of our personal time etc. Just as one would with any business expense.

I think it’s fair to say:

• we shouldn't be so certain of the financial superiority of a tool purchase. Cheap tools could be cheap, or they could be expensive. Expensive tools could be really cheap.
• the sweeping generalities, example: "all snap on owners are....", "People buy Snap On tools because...." are inaccurate, & unhelpful nonsense. It's stereotyping and prejudice as wrong as any other.

I’m tempted to register MyopicAndSophomoric.com and make it redirect to the forum

And yes, cheap tools can be expensive. Rounding off critical fasteners is expensive. Breaking a finger is expensive. Overtorquing a brake caliper bolt with an unreliable torque wrench is expensive and potentially tragic.

 

[zendriver]

Fwiw I didn’t see a lot of it, but very often Harbor freight tools sold fairly good at estate auctions, especially in nice complete sets

Sometimes a little too high, I thought not far off from new price

I was eyeing a NIB Central something cordless reciprocating saw might have Had the battery and charger I don’t remember. I end up paying plenty. I thought $30 ended up flipping it on eBay for $55 plus shipping.

Maybe somebody wanted to collect it or use it

My ex mother-in-law surprise me by paying $10 for a set of polished combo. Wrenches at a garage sale. Worked them very hard, Replacing hydraulic hoses back hoeusing a cheater bar and they barely had a scratch in them

I expect them the last forever and that’s a mighty long time.

 

[JeepYJ]

Overtorquing a brake caliper bolt with an unreliable torque wrench is expensive and potentially tragic.

Torque wrench on a caliper bolt?
If you can’t tell by feel you’re getting close to the correct torque on smaller fasteners you probably should let someone else do your wrenching.

 

[dogdog]

Torque wrench on a caliper bolt?
If you can’t tell by feel you’re getting close to the correct torque on smaller fasteners you probably should let someone else do your wrenching.

lol, lots of people don't have the knack for mechanical things... that is why they need something shinny like Slap-on wrenches to make them feel better.