Why is this priced so high?

[hairtrigger]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001B0XIL6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Please tell me what about this makes it so high priced? I know it's a precision tool, but there are other tools with similar precision that are under $50. This is just the kind of thing that makes me wonder, if they put a high price on their tools, people will buy them just because they're expensive.

 

[geologist]

Maybe because it's a Starrett? New ones were going for the same price on eBay, although most of the used ones are much cheaper.

 

[otis66]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001B0XIL6/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Please tell me what about this makes it so high priced? I know it's a precision tool, but there are other tools with similar precision that are under $50. This is just the kind of thing that makes me wonder, if they put a high price on their tools, people will buy them just because they're expensive.

You do save $44.00

 

[GrantCee]

Please tell me what about this makes it so high priced? I know it's a precision tool, but there are other tools with similar precision that are under $50. This is just the kind of thing that makes me wonder, if they put a high price on their tools, people will buy them just because they're expensive.

Uh, no - similar RESOLUTION, perhaps, but not similar precision. Big difference.

A master vernier caliper is quite expensive to make, but it has a couple of advantages over a dial or electronic caliper: first, assuming you don't damage it, it will never change its accuracy over its lifetime. A dial caliper will, and an electronic caliper will eventually fail. A vernier caliper is a lifetime investment that will work perfectly at Year 100 as it does on Day One.

A vernier also doesn't suffer from linearity issues (sometimes a problem with electronic examples), will never jam because of chips in the gear tracks like a dial will, and is completely impervious to oils, greases, steam, solvents, most acids and alkalis. You can even use them underwater - just be sure to dry them thoroughly when you're done!

The vernier never needs servicing (unless, again, you damage it.)

All vernier calipers are very expensive when new; luckily, they're cheap on the used market because a) they last forever, and so there are a ton of them available, and b) the art of reading a vernier is disappearing along with the manual transmission.

(Oh, and just because I'm ****-retentive and tired of misused nomenclature - these pictures are NOT vernier calipers!)

 

[Outlawmws]

Verniers AREN'T that expensive, and that is probably a typo on Amazon's part.

 

[GrantCee]

Verniers AREN'T that expensive, and that is probably a typo on Amazon's part.

You might spend some time learning to use this newfangled thing called
"Google":

http://www.mytoolstore.com/starrett/slcal004.html

Yes, they are just that expensive.

 

[bob15]

Maybe this link will help you:

http://www.mytoolstore.com/starrett/slcal004.html

Starrett does have the $100 version as well.....

 

[Outlawmws]

That's just stupid ******* nuts. There is NO WAY they can justify that kind of cost for a device that can only read to .001, short of hand making each and every one of them. I'm guessing Starrett are probably about the only game in town for verniers, and simply are price gouging.

 

[geologist]

Starrett does have the $100 version as well.....

As well as....

Caliper in Finished Wood Case
Range: 0-72"
Bar Width: 2-1/2"
Approx. Jaw Depth: 4-1/2"
Max. Nib Width Closed: .750
Catalog No.: 123Z-72
Price:
$10,518.99

 

[GrantCee]

That's just stupid ******* nuts. There is NO WAY they can justify that kind of cost for a device that can only read to .001, short of hand making each and every one of them. I'm guessing Starrett are probably about the only game in town for verniers, and simply are price gouging.

Google would really help you right now. Mitutoyo and Fowler both sell master-style verniers. Mitutoyos are within a few bucks of Starrett, and the Chinese (or are they Polish these days?) Fowler copies are STILL a little over half of Starrett's price.

B&S only makes standard verniers these days, but a 6" will still run you over $300. They stopped making masters some time ago, but when they did they were a little more than Starrett yet.

Keep in mind that a master style vernier is the only kind of caliper that will reliably (repeatably) read to .001" over its entire range. No other style of caliper will, regardless of the resolution of the display.

Unless you need that particular set of attributes that they offer, of course they seem outrageous. If you do, however, the price will suddenly seem more reasonable - kind of like Snap-On (which I'd never buy, but I understand why some do.)

 

[Outlawmws]

Google would really help you right now. Mitutoyo and Fowler both sell master-style verniers. Mitutoyos are within a few bucks of Starrett, and the Chinese (or are they Polish these days?) Fowler copies are STILL a little over half of Starrett's price.

B&S only makes standard verniers these days, but a 6" will still run you over $300. They stopped making masters some time ago, but when they did they were a little more than Starrett yet.

Keep in mind that a master style vernier is the only kind of caliper that will reliably (repeatably) read to .001" over its entire range. No other style of caliper will, regardless of the resolution of the display.

Unless you need that particular set of attributes that they offer, of course they seem outrageous. If you do, however, the price will suddenly seem more reasonable - kind of like Snap-On (which I'd never buy, but I understand why some do.)

Unless manufactured and used in a temperature controlled environment, patently untrue...

(And I don't need Google to know that.)

 

[FastKat]

Wow... a 6 foot caliper. That's huge!!

As well as....

Caliper in Finished Wood Case
Range: 0-72"
Bar Width: 2-1/2"
Approx. Jaw Depth: 4-1/2"
Max. Nib Width Closed: .750
Catalog No.: 123Z-72
Price:
$10,518.99

 

[GrantCee]

Unless manufactured and used in a temperature controlled environment, patently untrue...

(And I don't need Google to know that.)

Environmental factors affect all measuring devices of similar type pretty equally and fairly predictably.

In a climate controlled environment, a master style vernier will read to the .001 limit of its resolution all the time, while a dial or electronic will not - simply because they don't eliminate usage errors the way this style of vernier caliper does.

Outside of that, the environmental errors for all calipers are the same, but the induced errors are not. That's the point you're not getting.

Regardless of being in or outside of a controlled environment, the master vernier will be more repeatably accurate than any other caliper. That's part of the reason they cost so much.

 

[PeterT]

Outlaw, you can always use your yardstick for taking measurements if you don't appreciate this tool.

 

[Outlawmws]

Appreciation of the tool is not the point. The absurdity of the cost vs. the complexity of the tool is the point. These are by far the easiest of accurate measuring tools to make.

 

[rodm1]

It's probable one of the last few that are USA. The new ones are coming from china.

 

[ibedayank]

That's just stupid ******* nuts. There is NO WAY they can justify that kind of cost for a device that can only read to .001, short of hand making each and every one of them. I'm guessing Starrett are probably about the only game in town for verniers, and simply are price gouging.

then you have not checked the prices of a mill and lathe in manual or cnc form that will make repeatable parts withing 0.0001 tollerance. have you?

 

[Outlawmws]

then you have not checked the prices of a mill and lathe in manual or cnc form that will make repeatable parts withing 0.0001 tollerance. have you?

We are not talking about a tool that measures to a tenth. Measuring (and Building on this scale) to .001 is not that difficult, nor is it that hard to replicate.

 

[gorilla]

I've had some experience making master gauge's for convex and concave optics. Any time you say master the cost goes up by a factor of 100. In most cases they have to be traceable to the bureau of standards.

 

[GrantCee]

Appreciation of the tool is not the point. The absurdity of the cost vs. the complexity of the tool is the point. These are by far the easiest of accurate measuring tools to make.

Really? How do you know that?

Just because something is simple doesn't mean it's easy. Only the non-knowledgable make that error.

You can buy Chinese copies of that caliper for as little as $45. Will it be the same tool? Don't kid yourself; it's not the same tool any more than a made-in-India wrench is the same as a Snap-On.

In metrology, very small increments of precision add up to enormous increases in price. Until you've got some experience in that area, which includes some time doing precision manufacturing (car parts don't count), you'll never understand the reasons why.

Anyone whose argument starts with "Amazon made a typo on the price" obviously has no clue what the tool is, let alone why it costs what it does. We're talking about a very specialized item that is useless to anyone who doesn't know how to use it, or even what it's used for.

Just because it's not worth the money to YOU doesn't mean it's not worth the money, period.

 

[ibedayank]

quality... It does not come for free
its like compareing craftsman to snap-on
both will remove a bolt but would you pay a snap-on price for a craftsman ratchet

 

[Gtamazing]

I've had some experience making master gauge's for convex and concave optics. Any time you say master the cost goes up by a factor of 100. In most cases they have to be traceable to the bureau of standards.

that sounds right

 

[Outlawmws]

Really? How do you know that?

Just because something is simple doesn't mean it's easy. Only the non-knowledgable make that error.

You can buy Chinese copies of that caliper for as little as $45. Will it be the same tool? Don't kid yourself; it's not the same tool any more than a made-in-India wrench is the same as a Snap-On.

In metrology, very small increments of precision add up to enormous increases in price. Until you've got some experience in that area, which includes some time doing precision manufacturing (car parts don't count), you'll never understand the reasons why.

Anyone whose argument starts with "Amazon made a typo on the price" obviously has no clue what the tool is, let alone why it costs what it does. We're talking about a very specialized item that is useless to anyone who doesn't know how to use it, or even what it's used for.

Just because it's not worth the money to YOU doesn't mean it's not worth the money, period.

Grant, condescending comments like that (and your earlier comments) usually come from trolls or assholes. Which one do you want to be when you grow up?

You don't know my background or experience, nor my knowledge, and while you sometimes make good points, they are based on your own preconceived notions.

Now I only have about 40 years of being in and out of machine shops and designing highly complex gear, and some of my designs are flying in space above your head as we type this drivel, so I think I have some knowledge and experience with precision instruments, machine shops and engineering. Enough to know that no one needing highly precise measurements would ever make them with a caliper, no matter what fancy name a company slaps on it (Master Vernier Calipers...). If real precision is needed other tools are used.

Starrett makes great tools and instruments, I don't dispute that. But it is farcical to accept that a 6" vernier caliper should cost that much to manufacture and sell. Calipers (of any type) are for quick checks and ease of use. To pretend they are more than they are shows a lack of knowing of what real precision is, and what is required to measure it.

 

[MD11]

I've heard of people spending several thousands on calipers. Just depends on how much accuracy you want.

 

[hairtrigger]

Damn, askin some questions here is like settin off a bomb

 

[autopts]

Here's a Starrett 24" thats going up for auction near Chicago on the 12th. I'll let you guys know what it went for.

 

[Rico.]

but would you pay a snap-on price for a craftsman ratchet

I'm not even sure I would like to pay a Snap-On price for a Snap-On ratchet.

 

[autopts]

Here's a Starrett 24" thats going up for auction near Chicago on the 12th. I'll let you guys know what it went for.

Just a follow up. It went so cheap that I bought it. $80

 

[MD11]

wow, you paid just $80 for that??????? That's amazing if true, I can't believe the auction had no reserve.


I just paid well over $500 for this $633 retail 6" version!

 

[TheGrooveking]

Grant, condescending comments like that (and your earlier comments) usually come from trolls or assholes. Which one do you want to be when you grow up?

You don't know my background or experience, nor my knowledge, and while you sometimes make good points, they are based on your own preconceived notions.

Now I only have about 40 years of being in and out of machine shops and designing highly complex gear, and some of my designs are flying in space above your head as we type this drivel, so I think I have some knowledge and experience with precision instruments, machine shops and engineering. Enough to know that no one needing highly precise measurements would ever make them with a caliper, no matter what fancy name a company slaps on it (Master Vernier Calipers...). If real precision is needed other tools are used.

Starrett makes great tools and instruments, I don't dispute that. But it is farcical to accept that a 6" vernier caliper should cost that much to manufacture and sell. Calipers (of any type) are for quick checks and ease of use. To pretend they are more than they are shows a lack of knowing of what real precision is, and what is required to measure it.

Have you worked in tight tolerance manufacturing? Standard dial calipers that have .001" are not accurate to .001", just because the dial has those graduations doesn't mean it's that accurate. If I caught a machinist using a dial caliper to determine if a part was within a +/-.003" tolerance he or she would be getting a lesson in metrology.

And yes except for the shipping/receiving department at Starrett and Mitutoyo's manufacturing plants they are temperature and humidity controlled.

TheGrooveking

 

[Outlawmws]

wow, you paid just $80 for that??????? That's amazing if true, I can't believe the auction had no reserve.


I just paid well over $500 for this $633 retail 6" version!

I thought you got the 8" version? it sure looks 2" longer than the pair above it in your pic...

 

[Outlawmws]

Have you worked in tight tolerance manufacturing? Standard dial calipers that have .001" are not accurate to .001", just because the dial has those graduations doesn't mean it's that accurate. If I caught a machinist using a dial caliper to determine if a part was within a +/-.003" tolerance he or she would be getting a lesson in metrology.

And yes except for the shipping/receiving department at Starrett and Mitutoyo's manufacturing plants they are temperature and humidity controlled.

TheGrooveking

No Clue why you appear to be barking at me. We seem to be on the same page.

 

[MD11]

I thought you got the 8" version? it sure looks 2" longer than the pair above it in your pic...

well, oddly it's sold as a 6" model or at least it has a -6 at the end of the name, vs-12 or -24, but it does indeed go 8", or 150mm

can't complain I guess.. http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail?k=123EMZ-6

 

[Skin]

Appreciation of the tool is not the point. The absurdity of the cost vs. the complexity of the tool is the point. These are by far the easiest of accurate measuring tools to make.

I find this comment very funny considering most members on this board dont balk at a $300 snap-on socket set that an automated machine pumped out in 60 seconds.

Vernier calipers are very time consuming to manufacture and if a truck brand socket set is worth hundreds then that caliper is absolutely worth its list price and more.

 

[MD11]

I find this comment very funny considering most members on this board dont balk at a $300 snap-on socket set that an automated machine pumped out in 60 seconds.

Vernier calipers are very time consuming to manufacture and if a truck brand socket set is worth hundreds then that caliper is absolutely worth its list price and more.

to be fair, I think outlaw simply suffers from 'made in china' syndrome.. I talked to a guy at Starrett at length earlier yesterday and he told me that they make a "Chinese version" of many of their tools for the simple reason that some people cannot fathom the cost of a very high grade tool, made here in the USA... he told me their Chinese tools are very good, just not anywhere near as good as their American ones, and that the cost of making them even a bit more accurate was nearly exponential in terms of accuracy returned for invested cost of manufacture.

Made sense to me... but then I have no issues buying the best equipment I can afford.. then again, I'm the guy who got lambasted for bashing HF tools.

 

[Outlawmws]

to be fair, I think outlaw simply suffers from 'made in china' syndrome.. SNIP

To Be fair, I don't suffer from "made in China syndrome" I don't think I own a single Chinese or even Taiwanese tool, even by accident... Considering the quantity and range of tools I own and use, that makes a pretty broad statement.

Not too safe to make assumptions...

 

[MD11]

To Be fair, I don't suffer from "made in China syndrome" I don't think I own a single Chinese or even Taiwanese tool, even by accident... Considering the quantity and range of tools I own and use, that makes a pretty broad statement.

Not too safe to make assumptions...

ok, fair enough.. thus why ASSumptions are bad.

Maybe you have a future in designing and building a vernier caliper in the USA for under $100... I'll be your first customer.

 

[William Payne]

I work in machine shop, quality premium branded reputable metrology equipment is expensive. Accuracy is everything in a machine shop. Ive only been there 6 months and I learnt on day one that when buying stuff its never $5 or $10, its allways $50 or $100 or more.

 

[bartels_metal_works]

Enough to know that no one needing highly precise measurements would ever make them with a caliper, no matter what fancy name a company slaps on it (Master Vernier Calipers...). If real precision is needed other tools are used.

Couldn't agree with you more! Calipers are handy, but not the correct tool for high precision work.

 

[autopts]

wow, you paid just $80 for that??????? That's amazing if true, I can't believe the auction had no reserve.


I just paid well over $500 for this $633 retail 6" version!

Thats wasn't all of the lot. This Misc was added too. I'll take offers on the whole deal. The depth guage I won for $40.

This Depth Guage set looks unused so I picked this one up also.