Why the hate for Craftsman stuff?

[Matt018]

Okay I know im gonna get really hated on for this but whats really wrong with craftsman? Now i know there air tools and similar tools leave something to be desired but whats wrong with there sockets ratchets and wrenches? I know that the raised panel design isnt the most comfortable and I wouldnt like to use them everyday but I know I would not mind whatsoever having scraftsman RP for a back up wrench set. And especially there sockets. I dont have any pictures but I compared a snap on 8 MM shallow 1/4 socket with the same socket just in craftsman the wall size was the same thickness, the height was the exact same the internal dimensions were the same the only difference was the craftsmans have rooms for a bolt al the way down untill the bottom of the socket and the snap on did not, and I actually prefer the craftsman style anyway.

Also I set out to torture test a craftsman 1/4 RP ratchet that was close to knew, So for almost 45 minutes I broke the head of bolts I locked into my vise. And finally went out to my lawn mower and put a craftsman socket and ratchet on a bolt on the lawnmower deck and it wouldnt break the ratchet pr socket with a 12 in 1/2 extention on a 9/16 deep well socket, (mind you all this is craftsman I was using. And nothing brok with a 12in cheater setup so I put a 4 foot jack handle on the setup and finally broke the ratchet, It brok at the point where the little ball is that hold on the socket which I believe is the weakest part. I also went back to sears to get it warrantied, they walked straight to the display case and handed me a completely knew ratchet, not a rebuild one, A brand spanking new ratchet. So guys whats your beef with craftsman? Is USA made realy that important to you that youd pay 3-400 bucks for a handfull of sockets of the snap on truck?

 

[amolaver]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

its not a matter of hate for me at all. the fit and finish of one of a dozen competitive products is massively better. ergonomics is a personal thing - i hate the RP in my hand. while your 1/4 ratchet might have survived your torture test, RP ratchet failures are a fairly common problem. i've had finish issues with their sockets so don't like them.

ratchets - RP's generally are just poorly made - low tooth count, crummy finish, plastic selectors. i used the low profiles for years with no complaints but prefer no quick-release. i'm using the 'premium' ratchets now mostly and love 'em. really like the squarish handle design.

wrenches - short in length, hate the RP design. open ends are prone to 'stretching' under load. 'craftsman professional' are US-made but no longer being mfr'd. seem to be nice full polish wrenches. i forget their offshore mfr'd replacement name. i like ALL my wrenches more than the RP - everything from tons of gearwrench to toptul and just ordered a set of the wrightgrip full polish metric combos.

sockets - i use impact sockets almost exclusively and have two sets of craftsman deep 1/2" that have held up great (purchased at 1/2 off sale - something like $40/set). their normal impact socket pricing is more expensive than competitors (sunex/gray pneumatic/gearwrench). prior to Ideal, i could get SK impact sockets for craftsman pricing.

in short - i've found similarly priced, much higher quality tools. i use a lot of gearwrench stuff and have had only a single piece fail (1/4" impact swivel), PRC-made or not.

ahm

 

[byoungblood]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

in short - i've found similarly priced, much higher quality tools.

That's it in a nutshell. Granted, Craftsman has never been at the top of the food chain quality wise, but it does seem to have gone down a few notches in the past 15-20 years.

That being said, I did just buy some Craftsman Professional screwdrivers (hell, for $10 for each set, it was hard to pass up!) and probably half of my tools are Craftsman, but I have either replaced or avoided Craftsman tools for certain things. FWIW, I've never seen a Craftsman open end wrench strech open under load. Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough?

 

[Matt018]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I dont see why you would ever need to use an open end wrench under allot of torque, The only time you need to put allot of force on an open end wrench you could just use a flare wrench. I always break a bolt loose with a box end then turn it with the open end untill its loose enough that I can use my fingers.

 

[buffalobill]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

anything craftsman can do, sk can do better, and not offshore production. and sk doesn't come up with gimmicky tools to sell to people who don't know any better.

I would have more respect for craftsman if they just stuck to selling QUALITY basic handtools that always get the job done. stop putting money into "dogbone" wrenches, or "ratcheting" open end ****, and just invest the money into putting the best tools on the racks that you can for the pricepoint and expected buyers.

another example are theose X beam wrenches. I never had a problem with standard combination wrenches. why make up problems to solve?

 

[wornoutoldman]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

When I was a kid I used to use/lose all of my fathers tools. He had PowerKraft the Montgomery Ward brand. But I lusted after Craftsman tools because that's what real mechanics used. When I stared buying my own tools at 14 I bought Craftsman but damn those PowerKraft had a nicer finish and worked just as well. Thanks to GJ I discovered those PowerKraft tools were rebranded Indestro (nice stuff wish I'd kept them) At 16 my high school offered vocational training so I took a 2 year airframe and powerplant license course. Tools provided for the course? Snap on. The other brands could not match the fit/finish/chrome or prestige that Snap on tools provided. 95% of my tools are Snap on and I never minded paying the Snap on price as those tools made me lots of money. The service was beyond reproach and now thirty years later I could sell most of them for more than I paid for them at the time. When I was doing side work (and lots of it) I went to Sears and put together a large tool kit for home use for about $500 in late 80s dollars picking and choosing every single item no "300 piece tool kits" for me. They did what I needed which was avoiding bringing my Snap on tools home during the week. As I understand it Sears has begun sending their manufacturing overseas to PRC while still charging made in America prices so I'd now say "No Thanks!" that would be my (and I suspect others) gripe with Sears and the Craftsman brand. It's worth noting that times have changed and if I was in a position/needed to start buying tools today I would likely come to a forum like this one and take in a wide survey of opinions and suggestions before making any purchase decisions...

 

[radgto]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I drive a 1998 Eddie Bauer Explorer, Rusty 197K beater.

My wife drives a 2009 BMW 5 series, so pretty that I'd bang it if it came with a ******.

My explorer has just about every option her Beemer has and does the exact same thing... Gets me where I need to go.

Her car just does it with more refinement and comfort.



I think of my Explorer as a RP Craftsman and her car as a Flank Drive Plus.

Same outcome at the end, only difference is comfort getting there.

 

[plinker]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

in short - i've found similarly priced, much higher quality tools
For the most part, that about sums it up.

I have a fiar amount of Craftsman tools I have split the same number of Craftsman sockets as I have Snap-on, about three of each brand.

I have had issues with the RP wrenches spreading on the open end, I try not to use the open end on any wrench now, unless I have to now.

I dont have any raised panel ratchets so I cant really comment, I started out with S-K pro series ratchets.

Come to think of it I do have a 1/4 RP ratchet on loan to a friend. I never had a problem with it but I did not use it much as I had better (IMO) ratchets available

As far as I'm concerned the pin punches and pry bars are some of thier best deals going, good quality and reasonable price.


Alot of people were very dissapointed with some of the Craftsman Professional line being phased out (wrenches are from china now and the pro pliers discontinued). K-mart/Sears are not doing themselves any favors when it comes to thier method of doing business

Overall they are a good value, but they are not the same quailty that they were. Like was said it has gone down a bit in the last 20 years.

 

[franzdom]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

My beef with Craftsman is summed up by the OP's post. Craftsman is more about the warranty than the tools. People abuse the warranty. They have had to cheapen up the tools over the years because of their expensive business model.

 

[woody 73]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I like craftsman tools but something is missing from the past ; for example they used to make a very nice socket they still make a nice socket but it has to do with the double notch where the detent ball comes into play (just not quite right in my book).

Screwdrivers in the past they could take much more abuse now not so sure about that.

Ratchets they were built like a tank and never failed, now the new ones with the plastic selectors just don't seem to cut the mustard.

In the past you could buy a tap & die set made in the usa with kromedge and they were stamped not laser engraved (don't get me started),today they all come from china and the quality seems to be slipping.

I just bought a 9-piece metric allen set on sale for 30% off (store closing) and they were so badly stamped from china that usiing an electron microscope you could just about read the size of each key.

Files don't get me started they are now making them in India I am sure our Grandparents are rolling in their graves.

I could go on but you get the point.

 

[buffalobill]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

there is a used tool store in buffalo, there has to be others around the country, plus pawn shops, craigslist, ebay, etc. for the same amount of money, i can get used tools that i would rather buy than new craftsman.

also, the craftsman warranty only covers their tools, not my knuckles! every toolmaker offers a lifetime warranty anymore, but if i buy better quality tools and use them properly, i'll never need it. not so with crapsman...

 

[Outlawmws]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I Don't hate on them, but I have a hard time recommending them any longer. I have had no significant issues with Craftsman hand tools, (another story on their hand power tools...) however almost every Craftsman tool I own is over 20 years old, and the difference in quality is marked. I received a replacement set of Screwdrivers as a gift from SWMBO (cheaper than buying the ones I was missing separately), and the tips could not stand up to use, and I've bent even the largest (presumably strongest) tips under ordinary use.

About 10 years ago I bought a 90 piece metric set as a road box set for my Suzuki 4X4, and it's been decent other than one 1/4" ratchet that broke right off, but that included no screwdrivers at all thank god.

I'll still buy Craftsman, but generally used from yard sales and flea markets of old stock, and not from their current stock. If I had to replace all at once, I'd be hard pressed to find a decent source new of affordable quality tools comparable to my old tools...

 

[filtered]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I don't hate Craftsman, you just have to know what to buy and what not to buy. I buy the sockets, cheap, easy to replace, and made in the USA. I have older pro combo wrenches and deep offset, both are very nice. Punches, pry bars, pro tap and die set, and more. I try my hardest to stay away from Chinese made tools. The older stuff definitely seems to be much better quality. I'm also not a pro mechanic, so the Craftsman stuff works just fine for me, except for the raised panel ratchets. I couldn't keep one for more than a few months, so I no longer own them.

 

[BigAl62]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I have no problem with Craftsman tools. When I started wrenching my grandfather said "get Craftsman, you'll never regret it". OK, most of my stuff is older and US made, but I have some newer stuff and have no problems with it. As for at work, I have truck brand tools (Snap On box filled with Snap On, Mac, Matco, Cornwell, Vulcan, and yes Craftsman). The main reason I have truck brand stuff at work is when I started I had no credit and the tool truck dealers extended me on truck credit no questions asked. Sears wouldn't give me a credit card so I couldn't get the tools I needed when I needed them. If I had to do it over again - who knows, maybe it would be mostly Craftsman.

 

[GoBlue]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

anything craftsman can do, sk can do better, and not offshore production. and sk doesn't come up with gimmicky tools to sell to people who don't know any better

Except the fact that SK was OUT OF BUSINESS for years. Who knows if they will stick around this time, and i dont think you or anyone else can say they wont be producing tools offshore when MAC, Matco, Cornwell and even Snap-on are doing it now and have been for years. None of us have any idea how the SK 2.0 will go other than the crappy quality control we have already seen, via several posts on this site and others like it. In the current economy...we might even see SK 3.0 in the next decade...i hope not, but stranger things have happened.

Craftsman is just like the above mentioned brands. Some of their stuff is great, some is ****. At least its priced reasonable. Anyone who uses their head for something other than a hat rack can pick the good from the bad.

 

[PassnThru]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I drive a 1998 Eddie Bauer Explorer, Rusty 197K beater.

My wife drives a 2009 BMW 5 series, so pretty that I'd bang it if it came with a ******.

My explorer has just about every option her Beemer has and does the exact same thing... Gets me where I need to go.

Her car just does it with more refinement and comfort.



I think of my Explorer as a RP Craftsman and her car as a Flank Drive Plus.

Same outcome at the end, only difference is comfort getting there.

And it's hard to justify the cost of a Beemer if you are only putting a few thousand miles a year on it....

 

[kythri]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

another example are theose X beam wrenches. I never had a problem with standard combination wrenches. why make up problems to solve?

Quite a number of folks here, myself included, have found the Cross-Force wrenches to be an incredibly handy tool.

Not a replacement for normal wrenches, but they definitely have their uses.

To the OP: Ultimately, most of the hate for the brand is from a vocal minority.

There's a ton of folks who have posted here who have no hate for Craftsman. Like any brand, there's some stuff in the line that's cheesy or gimmicky, and at times, there's stuff that just *****.

 

[kythri]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

And it's hard to justify the cost of a Beemer if you are only putting a few thousand miles a year on it....

Seems that it would be easier to justify the cost, as you wouldn't wear it out nearly as fast...

 

[buffalobill]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Except the fact that SK was OUT OF BUSINESS for years. Who knows if they will stick around this time, and i dont think you or anyone else can say they wont be producing tools offshore when MAC, Matco, Cornwell and even Snap-on are doing it now and have been for years. None of us have any idea how the SK 2.0 will go other than the crappy quality control we have already seen, via several posts on this site and others like it. In the current economy...we might even see SK 3.0 in the next decade...i hope not, but stranger things have happened.

Craftsman is just like the above mentioned brands. Some of their stuff is great, some is ****. At least its priced reasonable. Anyone who uses their head for something other than a hat rack can pick the good from the bad.

show me where SK was OOB for "years"? maybe A year? And as for them offshoring their product? We will see, I would still trust their offshore stuff more than crapsmans. I trust SO, Mac, Matco, and Corwell's offshoring much more than craftsmans.

Craftsmans has a price point, NOT a quality point, like the other companies do. IMO, SK will get past their startup quality issues. I have seen every company, tool truck brand and otherwise, with quality issues on here just in the last few months i have been on the boards. However, I see a thread bashing craftsman every other day.

I think people's feelings for craftsman are because they are not maintaing their quality, but their affordability. I would rather pay more for quality stuff than save a buck and have junk. Anyone who picks up a 3/8 ratchet from craftsman, and then picks up one from SK, could tell the quality difference.

 

[Matt018]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Okay so If I was to buy my first set of sockets would you reccomend getting a full set of craftsman? I will buy J.H. Willians wrenches though. And most likely some kind of better ratchets. And the sockets would be 6 point of course.

 

[buffalobill]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Quite a number of folks here, myself included, have found the Cross-Force wrenches to be an incredibly handy tool.

Not a replacement for normal wrenches, but they definitely have their uses.

To the OP: Ultimately, most of the hate for the brand is from a vocal minority.

There's a ton of folks who have posted here who have no hate for Craftsman. Like any brand, there's some stuff in the line that's cheesy or gimmicky, and at times, there's stuff that just *****.

well, i would say that they should be, just as much as any OTHER combination wrench! but for the amount of money they spend marketing and designing that tool, or dogbone wrenches, or robogrip pliers, or automatic hammers, they could have probably just kept their pro line going, and kept the chinese stuff out. It would have done wonders for their reputation, don't you think?

btw, just for the record, i DO have craftsman tools, a decent amount actually. Since I have invested money into them, i expect them to care about my opinion. My opinion is that they don't need gimmicky ****. they don't need chinese tools on the racks. they need quality stuff, and if that means taking the price up a bit, i'm all about it. I can buy "any old ****" at the auto parts stores, and HF.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

My uncle's cousin's sister's grandmothers nephew told me he had a Craftsman wrench blow up in his hand, but his old V series would never do that....and it goes on...

I'd love to see all these stretched out, broken, worse quality Cman stuff compared to older versions as well as other companies. I know someone on here actually did some measuring as opposed to the "calibrated eyeball/hand" all these posts bring out.

So let's see these broken Cman tools......anyone who has some real pics/situations let them fly!...

 

[buffalobill]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Okay so If I was to buy my first set of sockets would you reccomend getting a full set of craftsman? I will buy J.H. Willians wrenches though. And most likely some kind of better ratchets. And the sockets would be 6 point of course.

what size sockets? 3/8's? sk 94549 is hard to beat for around 150 anywhere you shop. all 6 point. they make similar sets in 1/4 and 1/2 too. good deals on complete sets with all sae and metric. no plastic parts in the ratchets, and a warranty that you don't have to plan on using.

 

[Jim C.]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

98% of all my sockets, wrenches (all RP), ratchets (also all RP), screwdrivers, etc. are Craftsman from the 1980s. I have a pretty good selection of Craftsman pliers too from the same time period. I have some plastic tip hammers, a few ball peen hammers, and others, all mostly Craftsman. Tapes measurers, snips, hand saws, punches, chisels, some power tools, an air compressor, etc., etc, etc. All Craftsman. Definitely no "Craftsman hate" going on in my shop.

Jim C.

 

[GoBlue]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

show me where SK was OOB for "years"? maybe A year? And as for them offshoring their product? We will see, I would still trust their offshore stuff more than crapsmans. I trust SO, Mac, Matco, and Corwell's offshoring much more than craftsmans.

Craftsmans has a price point, NOT a quality point, like the other companies do. IMO, SK will get past their startup quality issues. I have seen every company, tool truck brand and otherwise, with quality issues on here just in the last few months i have been on the boards. However, I see a thread bashing craftsman every other day.

I think people's feelings for craftsman are because they are not maintaing their quality, but their affordability. I would rather pay more for quality stuff than save a buck and have junk. Anyone who picks up a 3/8 ratchet from craftsman, and then picks up one from SK, could tell the quality difference.

With all due respect...how in the hell do you know about Craftsmans price and quality point? Are we to believe that you work for Sears in a Sr. Mgt. Position? Typical garbage of "its bad cause i say so". I have no beef with SK what so ever. I have a lot of their stuff and like it fine. Even my SK gear wrench set that is made in TAIWAN. They did go out of business however and for the better half of a decade their retail outlets had dried up to the point they were hard to find and imposable to warranty. Their new stuff that i have seen looks to be one of the worst values going right now cost vs. quality.

 

[Matt018]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Im talking a complete set, 3/8 and 1/4 in deep, shallow, SAE, Metric. And then I can get some half inch impacts later down the line.

I would still have to buy some ratchets but I figure these 2 sets and some clip on rails and I should be set,

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...isABTestAvl=true&prdNo=4&i_cntr=1319588878848

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...dNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6&isABTestAvl=true

and then I dont know if Id buy the craftsman impacts or just go harbor freight for those, I know allot of guys say they have used harbor freight impact sockets professionally and they have held up.

 

[GoBlue]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I have used H.F's deep impact as well as 1/2in. wobble impacts professionally with great results. Make sure you get the wobbles with the external pin keepers as the other style or total **** and break every time i have used them. Craftsman's impact stuff is also really nice...much better im sure and its American made so it gets my nod. Their pinless wobbles are the same as the Matco's and they are very popular around here.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Im talking a complete set, 3/8 and 1/4 in deep, shallow, SAE, Metric. And then I can get some half inch impacts later down the line.

I would still have to buy some ratchets but I figure these 2 sets and some clip on rails and I should be set,

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...isABTestAvl=true&prdNo=4&i_cntr=1319588878848

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...dNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6&isABTestAvl=true

and then I dont know if Id buy the craftsman impacts or just go harbor freight for those, I know allot of guys say they have used harbor freight impact sockets professionally and they have held up.

Wait for the upcoming holiday sales if you can. The BIG socket set is hard to beat when it is on sale, and I can guarantee they will have good sales int eh coming months.

Cman sockets are hard to beat, though I do feel the RP ratchets leave something to desire...that's where I sill admit the SO 80's and Matco 88s are WAY ahead of the 36 tooth RP. Though all my trucks and field boxes have Cman ratchets.

 

[gts340]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I have a large amount of Craftsman tools in my box. I was an RV technician for almost ten years and then a GM dealership mechanic as well as an automotive hobbyist longer than I care to mention. Here is my opinion of the tools I have used. for the most part, I didn't see a difference in the durability of the sockets between Craftsman and the tool truck brands in the shop. SK, Wright, etc all held up fine too. Wrenches for the most part, both raised panel and professional were just fine too unless you had that ultra sensitive bolt/nut situation that required zero mistakes and one chance, then I used a Snap-On or Matco. They really are just a bit better than Sears in that situation.
As for ratchets, I tried to use a Craftsman Professional ratchet at the dealership and found myself going back to the store for warranty replacement once a week, literally. I ended up buying Cornwell brand ratchets and only one ever let me down. The Sears have been fine at home for the most part. I've probably returned three of them in my lifetime.
Screwdrivers from Craftsman, well, they are OK too, not the best but they get the job done. Stanleys for awhile I thought were better and had the same warranty. Nothing really beat the tool truck screwdrivers when you needed one to last and last. Over the past ten years though I have noticed a HUGE difference in the quality of Craftsman tools. I have about three screwdrivers that are ready for replacement and I'm not in a big hurry since I know they will be replaced with soft metal junk.
Long story short, I think comparing OLD Craftsman stuff to the new stuff isn't fair. For ordinary, daily use stuff I think they are just fine and even in some shop situations they hold up well too, especially for the cost difference between truck tools.

 

[gts340]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Oh, SK tools manufactures sockets in Sycamore, IL. I toured the plant recently. I've never had a bad SK tool and as long as it says USA on it, I'm more likely to buy an SK tool than any other because I work in Sycamore and my job depends on taxes.

 

[kythri]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Okay so If I was to buy my first set of sockets would you reccomend getting a full set of craftsman? I will buy J.H. Willians wrenches though. And most likely some kind of better ratchets. And the sockets would be 6 point of course.

I personally have no issue with Craftsman ratchets (though I find their better ratchets, like the Premium 84T to be superior to the raised-panel stuff).

Their sockets are, in my opinion, one of the best values on the market, especially when purchased in a set.

What's your budget? You just missed a killer deal on a 300+ piece Craftsman "mechanic's kit" that had 200+ sockets in it for $199.99.

I couldn't tell you if a similar deal will happen again, but I can pretty much guarantee that there WILL be deals/sales on tool sets that contain a ton of sockets, or socket sets themselves, between now and Christmas.

 

[Outlawmws]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

My uncle's cousin's sister's grandmothers nephew told me he had a Craftsman wrench blow up in his hand, but his old V series would never do that....and it goes on...

I'd love to see all these stretched out, broken, worse quality Cman stuff compared to older versions as well as other companies. I know someone on here actually did some measuring as opposed to the "calibrated eyeball/hand" all these posts bring out.

So let's see these broken Cman tools......anyone who has some real pics/situations let them fly!...

Wow, I don't think I saw a single instance of this sort of story line.

And since most of the broken/damaged tools probably got returned under warranty, I doubt there are many that can provide you with the photographic evidence you want.

As far as "Calibrated Eyeballs" I'll let you test you own "Eyebal Calibration" on this pic, poor as it is. After four tries with my **** camera, it is as good as I could get.

These are the business end of two 5/16" stubby screwdrivers. One with no visible wear on the tip despite over twenty five years of use, and the other more recent vintage out of the set I mentioned earlier and bent the first damn time I used it. several other drivers did the same. I waited a year or so and traded them in, hoping for a different lot and possibly better quality.

CAn you see the difference?

 

[TWX]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

My uncle's cousin's sister's grandmothers nephew told me he had a Craftsman wrench blow up in his hand, but his old V series would never do that....and it goes on...

I'd love to see all these stretched out, broken, worse quality Cman stuff compared to older versions as well as other companies. I know someone on here actually did some measuring as opposed to the "calibrated eyeball/hand" all these posts bring out.

So let's see these broken Cman tools......anyone who has some real pics/situations let them fly!...

I'll be happy to share what I've had from the Craftsman line that failed and the result to deal with the situation:

• A 3/8", 3/8" drive 12 point socket cracked. I took it into the store and they gave me another.
• A 1/4" RP ratchet stopped staying engaged. I took it into the store and they gave me another.
• A 1/2" RP ratchet that I got from my father-in-law stopped staying engaged. I took it in to the store and they gave me another.
• A flat-head screwdriver, probably 1/4", bent when using it. I took it into the store and they gave me another.
• I might have had a 3/8" ratchet fail, I can't remember for certain. Since all of my 3/8" ratchets work, if one did fail, I'd have taken it in to the store and they'd have given me another.

I got my first mechanics tools in about 1997 or so. I've added on to the sets, mostly with Craftsman, mostly raised panel, some full polish like the line wrenches. I have pulled transmissions, rebuilt transmissions, changed the top ends on engines, rebuilt axles, rebuilt engines, and a slew of other enthusiast and personal handyman tasks with my hand tools over the years and those are the only hand tool failures I've had. A socket, a couple of ratchets, a screw driver. No failures with any combination wrenches, pliers of any kind, line wrenches, ratcheting wrenches, or anything else covered by the lifetime warranty. Of the non-lifetime stuff, only my original NiCad batteries for my 19.2V stuff eventually gave out, an the ancient 3/8" corded drill my wife got from her father that was already worn out when she got it had some problems, and it still technically works, even though it smells funny when it runs and I don't get it out anymore.

Had I realized that there are rebuild kits, I probably would have rebuilt the 1/2" ratchet my FIL gave me, as it was an older one. Oh well.

For a home enthusiast, Craftsman is just fine. It doesn't break often even when used a fair amount, it is easy to replace when it does, and one doesn't have to chase down the tool truck to make a purchase or to get something warrantied. I'm sure that for professionals, eight hours a day of use could well make something wear out faster, and I certainly don't fault professionals who want tools that fail even less often than Craftsman tools, but for my own use, this level of tool seems to be right on the money.

Okay so If I was to buy my first set of sockets would you reccomend getting a full set of craftsman? I will buy J.H. Willians wrenches though. And most likely some kind of better ratchets. And the sockets would be 6 point of course.

I would actually recommend a 151 piece or 120 piece or some other set from Sears/Craftsman, right up to the point that they start bundling tons of useless **** in it. One can, for the most part, skip the ignition wrenches and the like.

Right now there's a 154 piece kit for $100 (online only), a 155 piece kit for $123, a 192 piece for $140, and a 239 piece for $170. If you don't have much of anything, any of these kits would be a definite great starting point, and they don't seem to be laden down with ****. The 154/155 piece kits are very, very similar to my original set, though they seem to have just a handful more things than mine did.

Later, once you see what you actually use, then go buy professional stuff. A single SnapOn socket set without ratchet will cost as much as the 192 piece kit here. For a non-professional you will probably never need that kind of tool.

 

[kythri]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

well, i would say that they should be, just as much as any OTHER combination wrench! but for the amount of money they spend marketing and designing that tool, or dogbone wrenches, or robogrip pliers, or automatic hammers, they could have probably just kept their pro line going, and kept the chinese stuff out. It would have done wonders for their reputation, don't you think?

I completely disagree with this. Money spent on marketing and design of one tool, were it not spent on marketing and design of that tool, wouldn't be used to subsidize the production and sale of another tool that isn't selling well (or well enough).

That's not how business works, especially big business.

btw, just for the record, i DO have craftsman tools, a decent amount actually. Since I have invested money into them, i expect them to care about my opinion. My opinion is that they don't need gimmicky ****. they don't need chinese tools on the racks. they need quality stuff, and if that means taking the price up a bit, i'm all about it. I can buy "any old ****" at the auto parts stores, and HF.

Sadly, the gimmicky **** sells, and sells well, especially at the price point. Remember the battery-powered adjustable wrench a few years back?

I saw tons of those being sold at Black Friday sales, and I saw tons of dogbones being sold last Black Friday, and around Christmas.

You and I, we're not the market for gimmicky ****, but, for better or worse for Sears, that market is pretty big.

 

[ElectroLight]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I have used H.F's deep impact as well as 1/2in. wobble impacts professionally with great results. Make sure you get the wobbles with the external pin keepers as the other style or total **** and break every time i have used them. Craftsman's impact stuff is also really nice...much better im sure and its American made so it gets my nod. Their pinless wobbles are the same as the Matco's and they are very popular around here.

Interesting, my 20 year old Craftsman impact sockets are all clearly stamped "Taiwan". +2 on HF's impact sockets. I wouldn't be surprised if the non-impact HF sockets are just as good as the current crop of Craftsman sockets but IDK.

 

[kythri]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

CAn you see the difference?

Any chance you've got a picture of the markings on the handle, so we can see what generation/line they were?

Not doubting you at all, just curious.

 

[amolaver]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

My uncle's cousin's sister's grandmothers nephew told me he had a Craftsman wrench blow up in his hand, but his old V series would never do that....and it goes on...

I'd love to see all these stretched out, broken, worse quality Cman stuff compared to older versions as well as other companies. I know someone on here actually did some measuring as opposed to the "calibrated eyeball/hand" all these posts bring out.

So let's see these broken Cman tools......anyone who has some real pics/situations let them fly!...

i've thrown out - yes, in the trash - an entire rail of craftsman 3/8 metric 12pt sockets. they were bought probably 10 years ago and used occasionally until the 10 and 12 rounded off and the 14mm split. all over the course of about a year. never used on an impact. i now 1) use impact sockets almost all the time, 2) don't use 12pt sockets unless its a 12pt fastener, and 3) don't buy craftsman sockets.

the only time i use chrome sockets is when either a) i need to use a true universal to get at tough angles, or 2) i want the feel of quality from my nepros semi-deeps. you want to see what a chrome finish is supposed to be, order up some nepros and prepare to be amazed. walk into any sears and pick up the sockets hanging as singles. you probably won't find one without blemishes in the finish. i usually notice them in the rounded surface transition from inside to outside of the sockets (fastener end) or on the drive end where it turns 90 degrees into the female drive. of course, you certainly pay a premium vs craftsman for nepros (although i got mine before the price hike)

i'd love to see someone construct a test rig that measured deflection of the open end at specific torque settings but never seen one. given that reasonably inexpensive alternatives exist with much better finish and ergos (at least for me) and their mfr's have reputations for high quality, i see no reason to round off fasteners to prove the point.

as has been said within this thread, many folks have used craftsman for lifetimes of professional work. that said, there are a LOT more alternatives (especially priced similarly to craftsman) than there were many years ago. or maybe its the availability of them through places like amazon that is the difference. or maybe its that through sites like GJ people can discuss and learn about products/brands they otherwise would have never been aware of. i'm fairly confident i would never have heard of nepros had it not been for GJ. along with NWS, Knipex, and who knows how many more.

30 years ago, i think it really came down to tool trucks, craftsman, auto parts store brand (many whom re-branded good quality tools), or VERY cheap stuff. of course there were other brands, but i'd wager most folks had never heard of plomb or even SK unless someone they knew (dad or coworker) had them. if you're reading this forum, you probably have realized there are a TON of other choices out there. many are better quality for similar pricing. many are MUCH better quality for a mid-point price between craftsman and the trucks (williams/wright come to mind). its that simple to me.

ahm

 

[Outlawmws]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

Any chance you've got a picture of the markings on the handle, so we can see what generation/line they were?

Not doubting you at all, just curious.

One is M and one is Q but I don't thing those makings have anything to do with the markings on the hard metal tools like wrenches and ratchets. Morover "M" isn't even listed on the index page someone on GJ keeps...

Identical P/Ns BTW

 

[LWaite]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

I drive a 1998 Eddie Bauer Explorer, Rusty 197K beater.

My wife drives a 2009 BMW 5 series, so pretty that I'd bang it if it came with a ******.

My explorer has just about every option her Beemer has and does the exact same thing... Gets me where I need to go.

Her car just does it with more refinement and comfort.



I think of my Explorer as a RP Craftsman and her car as a Flank Drive Plus.

Same outcome at the end, only difference is comfort getting there.

 

[buffalobill]

Re: Why The hate for Craftsman stuff?

With all due respect...how in the hell do you know about Craftsmans price and quality point? Are we to believe that you work for Sears in a Sr. Mgt. Position? Typical garbage of "its bad cause i say so".
i dont need to work for sears in a sr. mgmt position, i can see craftsmans price and quality point in their tools. I see it in their auto hammers. i see it in their crossbeam combination wrenches. i see it in their chinese gimmicky tools. they seem to think that they are competing with duralast, instead of competing with proto or napa or even cornwell or mac. if they want to rebuild the reputation they once had, they should focus on quality, not ****.

I have no beef with SK what so ever. I have a lot of their stuff and like it fine. Even my SK gear wrench set that is made in TAIWAN.
exactly. then we don't disagree. quality products are better than gimmicky ****. SK never went out of their line to sell auto hammers. they never twisted a combination wrench to sell an answer to a question that had never been asked.


They did go out of business however and for the better half of a decade their retail outlets had dried up to the point they were hard to find and imposable to warranty. Their new stuff that i have seen looks to be one of the worst values going right now cost vs. quality.

well you said that they were out of business for years? they were not.
btw, I have not had the problem of trying to warranty my SK stuff. they don't put plastic parts in their tools, even the foreign ones. And how much of this stuff have you seen from SK firsthand? and how many have been sold that are fine?