Williams Screwdrivers - Not Having Good Luck With Them

[Locator]

Williams Screwdrivers - Question Regarding the Blades

Hello,

I know the Williams screwdrivers have a good reputation, so I'm thinking I've just run into a bad lot. I've tried two different sets of the Williams 8 piece sets on Amazon and they had QC problems.

Most of the flat blade drivers are "twisted". In other words, when you lay the screwdriver on a table flat, the flat edge of the blade should either be flat/level or perpendicular to the table. These are all over the map. I'm not sure there has been a single one of them that line up with the flats of the handle. It makes it more difficult to index the screwdriver when holding it. I also bought a number of individual drivers to round out the set and some of those are the worst offenders. Even the free set of Harbor Freight screwdrivers I have all line up.

Also, there have been a number of them that the shanks weren't even aligned with the center of the handle. They are noticeably off-axis. Crooked. This has primarily been with the Phillips, but a few of the flats.

I have a number of other good screwdriver sets - various sets each of Wiha, Felo, Stanley 100 Plus, Pratt-Read, etc. The flat blades line up on all of those when there is a flat. (Most of them are round or rounded, but a lot have flat indexing areas.)

I looked at the pictures again on Amazon and all of them align with the flat of the handle. Is this common with the Williams? I don't want to order a third set if this is typical. If it's not typical, I'll just wait a few months and order again, thinking I've just bought some from a bad lot.

I'm not out to give them a bad name - I'm delighted to see US made tools being offered and my Williams ratcheting driver is great. I just want to see if I should keep trying to get a correct set.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I literally couldn't tell you how any of my screwdrivers are indexed.

 

[1950mercury]

Pics

 

[98ssuck]

If you really want your blades to "index" you will probably have pay more money for a higher quality driver. Or buy handles and shanks separately and build your own indexed driver. I just checked and my snapon ssd6, sdmabm4 sda8ba amd red Robertson all index. Not that I cared or noticed when I bought them.

 

[1950mercury]

I hope your sockets don't have paint on the inside.

 

[Wamsutta]

I literally couldn't tell you how any of my screwdrivers are indexed.

When he says "indexed" he means the flat blade and the handle are both clocked to each other at the 9:00 o'clock and 3:00 o'clock position when sitting on a flat surface.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Wow......Just Wow

Good thing I edited my original reply...I'm thinking if a few out of clock BUDGET screwdrivers bothered him, my reply would have surely been a little rough for "him"....

 

[gungatim]

how are the Williams sockets? do the 6pt. hex flats align with the flats of the square drive?

FYI - most of my snap-on screwdrivers are not indexed either. when the driver replaces the handles, he just pops them on in any old location...

 

[sk farmer]

i am not sure how improperly indexed shanks are bad luck......

 

[organ]

I noticed this on mine. I got over it. They're tools. But yes... apparently this is normal. I've noticed their Snap-On counterparts don't have this problem... guess that's where the extra money goes.

 

[panknuckshovel]

I literally couldn't tell you how any of my screwdrivers are indexed.

This may be true, but if you have even the tiniest bit of the OCD most have here you will check.

 

[fatfillup]

No OCD here,,,,,,,,,,,,but I went and checked out of curiosity.

All my truck brands were indexed except one old sanppy that was likely replaced.

Wouldn't have known without looking.

 

[lugnut71]

Just pull the shanks out and index them yourself. Yes the snap ons are indexed correctly, but yes most dealers replacing one just install however.

 

[SMKS]

I guess this is one of the ways they cut costs on the Williams drivers.

I don't know if I would ever notice this when using them. I sure haven't noticed it on any drivers I've ever used.

OP - I would say live with it, because it appears this is just how Williams drivers are made. Your other option is to return them and spend more for drivers that control that variable if it really bothers you that much.

 

[iScream]

How does this make any difference while using a screwdriver? If you can see the slot in the screw, can't you see the tip of your screwdriver at the same time?

If you are inserting your driver into some kind of blind spot you have to first look and see how the screw head is sitting. So what's hard about looking at your screwdriver tip and holding it at the correct angle?

 

[LXCam]

So do you complain if the bolt you need to play with isn't clocked to your liking when you start.

 

[Davefr]

Hmm, I never knew that indexing the handle to the screw was critical. I guess it could be for adjusting needle jets in blind/recessed holes.

None of my PB Swiss are indexed but it's probably because they're round handles.

I looked at my Williams and you're right. The handle flats are not in the same exact plane as the flat tip.

 

[gungatim]

I guess this is one of the ways they cut costs on the Williams drivers.
I don't know if I would ever notice this when using them. I sure haven't noticed it on any drivers I've ever used.

OP - I would say live with it, because it appears this is just how Williams drivers are made. Your other option is to return them and spend more for drivers that control that variable if it really bothers you that much.

I don't think there is any cost cutting involved, there is no incremental labor cost to having a jig that aligns the handles, if they were done on snap-on, the tooling already exists fro Williams.

if anything, it is a differential between brands, or just the way they've always done it at snap-on mentality, and Williams realized it is not a feature anyone really cares about except a minority with OCD...

 

[TomB19]

I think it's legit to want whatever a person wishes, regardless of what others think, but I don't think it's very classy to post a thread titled, " Williams Screwdrivers - Not Having Good Luck With Them" based on non-indexed blades.

Blade indexing isn't quality control. It's a feature.

There is every reason to believe these drivers will do an excellent job of their intended task and for a reasonable price, too.

 

[Zrexxer]

I bought a set of the Williams drivers a couple years ago, and I noticed they had all kinds of QC problems, too. And I've heard that from other people besides you, too. Phillips tips on mine weren't quite right, shafts weren't in the handles straight...

My theory is that these are seconds off the Snap On hard-handle line. If they don't pass Snap On's QC checks then they go into the Williams bin and are stamped with that company name.

 

[martin666]

Ok curiosity got the better of me and I had to check....I have the Williams set the OP mentioned, along with 1st generation Snap On black handles, 2nd generation ( like the Williams ) also black soft handle and Instinct handled. Along with red handled Mac, Witte green handled Matco, and green hard handled SK. All together I'd estimate in the neighborhood of 40 - 50 flat tipped screwdrivers, I found 4 that weren't indexed with the flat in relationship to the name stamp, 2 Williams and two Snap On...but for the life of me I can't see where it has anything to do with the performance of the screwdriver. O yea also have 5 triangle handled Snap On and two of those are clocked different than the others, but i didn't buy those new so I cant be certain they weren't replaced at one time, but then again kinda hard to tell where to index with the triangle handle

 

[Can I try?]

Too funny. I literally think I bought one of your rejected sets a couple weeks ago.

I treated myself recently to the phillips and slotted Williams sets on Amazon. They get good reviews on here, and I've been wanting a set of hard handles.

Well, they show up, no problems with the phillips set, but I notice something is "off" with the slotted set. The Williams pouch was wrapped with mailing tape, and when I get the pouch open the drivers have clearly been handled - fingerprints all over the shafts. So, I more closely scrutinize them. They didn't appear to have been used, and I did notice the indexing being off as you mentioned. I chalk it up to lack of attention to detail on the part of the manufacturer, but it doesn't affect the functionality of the tool so no big deal.

I am, however, upset at Amazon for sending me a clearly used item as new. It wasn't really a big deal to me in this situation, but it could be in others - say if an item was a gift, or an electronic device. I guess I should email them.

The moral of my story: **** IT UP! Tools are meant to be used, not too look pretty in a tool box. If you're collecting tools to look pretty, then I guess you don't plan on using them, do you?

 

[SMKS]

I don't think there is any cost cutting involved, there is no incremental labor cost to having a jig that aligns the handles, if they were done on snap-on, the tooling already exists fro Williams.

Well, we actually know the SO and Williams hard handles are slightly different. That's been established. They look very similar, but the measurements aren't identical.

Measurements here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23116

It could be that Snap-on had an expensive, advanced assembly line that put all the blades into the handles in the same orientation, while Williams just has someone who puts the handle and blade (in any orientation) in a press and it presses them together.

 

[John in OH]

Hello,

Most of the flat blade drivers are "twisted". In other words, when you lay the screwdriver on a table flat, the flat edge of the blade should either be flat/level or perpendicular to the table. These are all over the map. I'm not sure there has been a single one of them that line up with the flats of the handle. It makes it more difficult to index the screwdriver when holding it. I also bought a number of individual drivers to round out the set and some of those are the worst offenders. Even the free set of Harbor Freight screwdrivers I have all line up.

I tend to agree with most other posters ... I don't see where indexing is a big deal. I've never noticed whether or not any of my non-Williams screwdrivers are indexed or not so it must not have any impact on my work.

Also, there have been a number of them that the shanks weren't even aligned with the center of the handle. They are noticeably off-axis. Crooked. This has primarily been with the Phillips, but a few of the flats.

However, the mis-aligned shaft issue does appear to be a QC problem and, if found to be chronic problem in the Williams production process, then they should take some action to assure the shafts are aligned with the handle axis. Shaft mis-alignment would definitely annoy me!

TomB19 has given the best response regarding the indexing issue and the OP's right to be unhappy (whether we all agree or not):

I think it's legit to want whatever a person wishes, regardless of what others think, but I don't think it's very classy to post a thread titled, " Williams Screwdrivers - Not Having Good Luck With Them" based on non-indexed blades.

Blade indexing isn't quality control. It's a feature.

There is every reason to believe these drivers will do an excellent job of their intended task and for a reasonable price, too.

 

[iScream]

Of course the OP has a right to complain about whatever he wants. But there is good reason to reply with strong opinions that it doesn't matter. Otherwise less experienced people might avoid a good set of screwdrivers, for no good reason, after seeing a thread like this.

I've been using screwdrivers for at least 35 years, including Snap-on, Craftsman, Wera, Wiha, Stanley and other brands. I've stripped the interiors out of at least a couple hundred cars and later re-installed everything. Not once has the indexing of the shaft into the handle been an issue for me.

So, I think it's important to state that in a thread like this. But if there's some scenario where the indexing becomes critical, I would also like to hear about it and learn something.

Chris

 

[dutchgray]

For reference, many of the cheap brands of screwdrivers actually cast their plastic handles around the shaft instead of inserting the shaft into the handle like most US made brands do. That probably accounts for the more consistent alignment of the foreign brands, but it also means that most of the cheap screwdrivers will crack/break the plastic handle if you try and pull the shaft out.

Many of the good old euro hard handles are cast round the shank, not just cheap ones, its just how it is, we have never had warrantable screwdrivers either, beyond defective out the box or first use. (ok many brands have a guarantee period but you try to get a replacement and it doesn't happen much.)

 

[Monte]

For reference, many of the cheap brands of screwdrivers actually cast their plastic handles around the shaft instead of inserting the shaft into the handle like most US made brands do. That probably accounts for the more consistent alignment of the foreign brands, but it also means that most of the cheap screwdrivers will crack/break the plastic handle if you try and pull the shaft out.

All european manufactured and all other screwdrivers (except american) i´ve seen have injection molded handles were the handle is molded onto the blade. You can´t exchange the blade though. So expensive brands use this method too.

 

[shockwave]

If it matters that much you can reinsert shanks in handles but It does nothing to me functionality as these are great drivers and hold up quite well

 

[Locator]

Mine also are not indexed, but it doesn't bother me and I never thought of it as a problem that needed to be fixed. I think the only reason you notice it so much is because the handles are square.

I have had a few issues with Williams shafts inserted crooked in the handles and also with the handles creaking internally when torqued on by hand. I pulled the handles off, put a little epoxy into the handle hole, and then pressed them back together making sure everything went in straight and now they work fine. It only took a couple minutes to do. I don't like returning things unless there is a problem that I can't fix. It was a minor inconvenience that never should have happened from a good quality brand, but everything is fine now and I still feel that my Williams screwdrivers were a good value for the money.

For reference, many of the cheap brands of screwdrivers actually cast their plastic handles around the shaft instead of inserting the shaft into the handle like most US made brands do. That probably accounts for the more consistent alignment of the foreign brands, but it also means that most of the cheap screwdrivers will crack/break the plastic handle if you try and pull the shaft out.

Partially defective screwdrivers are not just a USA issue though, I have had several cheaper foreign made screwdrivers that had internal air bubbles in the plastic handles which allowed the shaft to wobble or spin slightly in the handle. Because I couldn't remove the handle without it breaking there wasn't much I could do about it other than throw them away.

Quality control at Williams could be better though, I have never had problems with other US made screwdrivers when new.

All european manufactured and all other screwdrivers (except american) i´ve seen have injection molded handles were the handle is molded onto the blade. You can´t exchange the blade though. So expensive brands use this method too.

Okay, the best posts in this thread. This puts a lot in perspective and makes sense. These are the first regular Williams drivers I've had and noticed it as soon as I picked up the first flat blade. I do wish they were straight like all of their factory photos, but can live with it. (Yep, a bit obsessive...)

As far as the cheap HF drivers, I just use those as some cheap scrapers occasionally and don't care about the alignment, I just looked at them after seeing these.

I will say, it's interesting that it's important enough an issue for Williams that their product photography shows them lined up, but what you receive is not. Like I said, I can live with it and appears it wouldn't affect the actual use.

As for the crooked shafts, that's more of an issue. The way Jeremy and Monte described the processes above, it's easy to see why it happens. These are apparently the only set of drivers I have that are manually inserted into a handle. All the others are evidently molded around the shaft. (Except for the wooded handled Felos.)

Thanks for the info!

 

[Locator]

Too funny. I literally think I bought one of your rejected sets a couple weeks ago.

I treated myself recently to the phillips and slotted Williams sets on Amazon. They get good reviews on here, and I've been wanting a set of hard handles.

Well, they show up, no problems with the phillips set, but I notice something is "off" with the slotted set. The Williams pouch was wrapped with mailing tape, and when I get the pouch open the drivers have clearly been handled - fingerprints all over the shafts. So, I more closely scrutinize them. They didn't appear to have been used, and I did notice the indexing being off as you mentioned. I chalk it up to lack of attention to detail on the part of the manufacturer, but it doesn't affect the functionality of the tool so no big deal.

I am, however, upset at Amazon for sending me a clearly used item as new. It wasn't really a big deal to me in this situation, but it could be in others - say if an item was a gift, or an electronic device. I guess I should email them.

The moral of my story: **** IT UP! Tools are meant to be used, not too look pretty in a tool box. If you're collecting tools to look pretty, then I guess you don't plan on using them, do you?

Funny! I'm afraid they weren't mine, however. I didn't tape anything but the box and they weren't used at all. It's funny you mention the condition, though. The Williams screwdrivers I've received have looked like you describe. Fingerprints and scuffs all over the shafts.

 

[iScream]

I will say, it's interesting that it's important enough an issue for Williams that their product photography shows them lined up, but what you receive is not. Like I said, I can live with it and appears it wouldn't affect the actual use.

As for the crooked shafts, that's more of an issue. The way Jeremy and Monte described the processes above, it's easy to see why it happens. These are apparently the only set of drivers I have that are manually inserted into a handle. All the others are evidently molded around the shaft. (Except for the wooded handled Felos.)

It was probably important to a photographer that everything lined up neatly for a picture.

Didn't you say in the first post that this handle indexing "problem" is causing an issue for you personally when you use them? Have you even used them or is this "problem" just from you imagining how you might use one someday?

I'd still like to see a picture of all these screwdrivers you have.

 

[Lugnutz]

..the tags say it all.

 

[shanny19]

Hmm, I never knew that indexing the handle to the screw was critical. I guess it could be for adjusting needle jets in blind/recessed holes.
.

In which case you use a Stihl screwdriver with the indexing fin.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ktUeAXOWL._SX300_.jpg

 

[Steevo]

Damn you, locator!

Now I have to throw away all of these drivers.
NONE of them are PROPERLY INDEXED!!!!!!

And this one was OK yesterday, and now it is mis-indexed! What the hell is happening?

 

[firworks]

Damn you, locator!

Now I have to throw away all of these drivers.
NONE of them are PROPERLY INDEXED!!!!!!

I'm glad to see someone has a worse problem with being over run with screwdrivers.

 

[Vortaku]

I did not read all of the reply's here, but indexing really is something that does not change the performance, correct?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I did not read all of the reply's here, but indexing really is something that does not change the performance, correct?

In the real world, no.


Although one could imagine scenarios: none that I believe would ever actually happen.

 

[John in OH]

This thread got me curious, so just for yucks and giggles, I went out to the shop tonight and checked the "indexing" of my good ol' Cman Pro screwdrivers. Now, I didn't check them all, but the ones that I did check all have the flat of the tips aligned with the Craftsman name on the handles.



Also, checked the axial alignment of the shafts with the handles on the flat and phillips drivers and all lineup nicely!

As I agreed in an earlier post above, I don't see that it makes a bit of difference how the tips are indexed, but I do find it interesting that Western Forge apparently had no problem getting the Cman Pros to be "properly" aligned axially and rotationally.

Maybe the OP should try a set of the soft-handled SK screwdrivers that, except for color, appear to be identical to the Cman Pros.

 

[Brownsfan]

I have to check my Williams drivers when I get home. I never noticed anything before while using them. But in the mean time how do I check to see if my Klein drivers are properly indexed? Now the drivers being off center in the handles that I can see being an issue. I'm pretty sure my Williams set has none off center. I am pretty sure I would have noticed. I have some work waiting for me when I get back. So I will be using them quite extensively.

 

[cheechi]

I love my Williams drivers and will continue to not care if they're indexed. How often are you really reaching for a slotted driver nowadays anyway? If 90* is too much to get a phillips to align with the screw well you're much more [something] than me. I'll let you decide if the [something] is good or bad.