Williams slotted driver defect?

[bareass172]

My g/f bought me the 19 piece set of Williams drivers from Tools Delivered for my birthday last week:
http://www.toolsdelivered.com/Williams-100P-19MD-Hand-Tools-Screwdrivers-Driver-Sets

I found out later that the set if mixed Williams and Bahco. Not a problem, I just didn't read the fine print since the TD website says COO is USA.

Anyway, the set is missing a driver (no problem, I'll make a call this week) but the biggest slotted in the set (SDS-33) has a tip that I don't think ever got properly finished. Please check the pics below and tell me I'm not crazy! I mean, the shank on this driver alone is almost 12" long and the tip is ground to a fine point and the edge is rounded on one side?

I'm going to talk with TD or Williams tomorrow, but wanted to get opinions.

 

[Trucky]

Looks like a good murder weapon to me!

eh. Just get em to exchange it when you call them about the missing driver.


Mind if I request a pic of all of em? EDIT: Just kidding, I'm a dummy. Thought they didn't show it on the website - until I went to the page.

 

[Wamsutta]

Yes that screwdriver is screwed up; it's not supposed to come to a point; it's supposed to be squared off at the very tip.

 

[bareass172]

Yeah, it's a 3/8" slotted and it's nothing at all like the SDR-28 in the set that is also a 3/8" slotted. I plan to just mention it when I call TD, I'm sure it's no biggie. I guess I was mostly curious too if anyone else had seen this.

On a side note, I had to laugh because the COO tag on the packaging stated "USA, Spain, China". I was like WTF? Then I realized, the bag they came in was made in China...

 

[southalabama]

Don't use "unique" tools to murder anyone. That's a one of a kind. If you must use a common tool.

I'd ask for replacement. That got by QC

 

[bareass172]

Don't use "unique" tools to murder anyone. That's a one of a kind. If you must use a common tool.

This made me LOL because this SDS-33 is so big when I showed a friend he commented it looked like a murder weapon.

 

[southalabama]

Anyone with Kevin smith as an avatar must have a good sense of humor.

I do a lot of criminal defense work. I've seen a few tool mark experts. You definitely don't want to use something one of a kind.

 

[rancherbill]

And what is the reason you are buying quality?

Two mistakes - one an omission and the other are defective driver. It makes you wonder whether they are tempered correctly. QC does not seem to be their forte.

 

[bareass172]

Well, to update this... I got the replacements today, the missing driver was replaced no problem but the new SDS-33 is barely better than the one I pictured. Has anyone else bought this set that can comment on if this is normal? The only difference in the new one is that the side edge isn't rounded, but the tip still comes to a point instead of being ground to a driver point. This is supposed to be a 3/8" tip, but it looks absolutely nothing like the other 3/8" tip that came in the same set.

I sent an email to Williams to inquire, but does anyone have this set who could chime in?

Thanks.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

I bought that set a bit ago. Driver has been sitting in my storage, but I should be dropping in there over the weekend and can check mine out. Didn't notice any issues with mine offhand, but it was obviously not finished like the rest of the set. Even though the handle says not to, it is obviously more of a straight prybar than a driver.

 

[bareass172]

I bought that set a bit ago. Driver has been sitting in my storage, but I should be dropping in there over the weekend and can check mine out. Didn't notice any issues with mine offhand, but it was obviously not finished like the rest of the set. Even though the handle says not to, it is obviously more of a straight prybar than a driver.

I actually bought that set off of your recommendation in another thread. I was looking at the smaller set and decided to get the big one based on your link (thanks BTW).
I know the finish is different, no doubt, but it's funny you said the prybar thing because I had that exact thought. I even showed it to a friend today and the first words out of his mouth - "looks more like a prybar to me" to which I pointed out the writing on the handle.

This is part of what I wrote to Williams:
"I find it hard to believe this is a finished product, but I also find it hard to believe that I'd get 2 of these that were bad - especially when one was a specific replacement that I'm sure someone checked out."

And that's my feeling - it must be right even though I think it's crappy. Oh well, the rest of the set is great so far after a week's use.

 

[sloppy]

Its not right, I have plenty of large flat blades and they are square and flat when new..

With that said if your not working on any thing with large screws its probably gonna be a prybar anyway so I wouldnt worry to much about it..

 

[rancherbill]

BareAss, keep us informed.

I'm not a pro, I have a mix of brand name and offshore tools. For the last 10 years I have been buying brand name.

Tools Delivered realizes where they get their money from - YOU. They did a good job for you. Williams is off in their own little world.

I don't know about the whole company, but the people on the floor don't get that they are making tools for YOU - not just to get a paycheck.

Williams is a Snapon company, and here is a video how Snappy makes screwdrivers. There might be difference between the plants.

Watch the whole think, or just skip to 2:00 to see the tips.

The pic you showed, really looks like a second. It never went through one of the steps of tip grinding.

 

[bareass172]

I agree, it's the step right around 2:28 in the video where they grind the end of the tip flat that is missing. I realize that this will be a prybar more than a driver, but after seeing the first one I thought it had to be a QC miss. After seeing the second one, well...

I'll definitely post the outcome. And Bill, don't even get me started on the lack of pride people take in their work in this country... I hear what you're saying.

Thanks for the video, I hadn't seen that in so long I'd forgotten and enjoyed watching it again.

 

[bareass172]

OK, so following up on this. Williams said it's not normal. They even CC'd me on some internal emails where they said that not only was it not normal, but they now realize that their own catalog information about this driver is incorrect (their catalog says this is a 3/8" slotted driver). This did nothing for me though, as Williams instructed me that I had to go back through my reseller to get his fixed.
I went back to the reseller and they had their Williams supplier contact me directly. He spent 3 days looking into it, talking with people and putting his hands on other "identical" drivers before he called me back to tell me that this is how "they all are". He freely admitted that this is not right, but told me that any replacement they sent me would be the same. He was very nice about it, and offered me some other product samples I think to make up for it. I turned down the samples and told him that I was disappointed in the QC on this one thing. Granted, the rest of the set is great (after 2 weeks use), but this should be removed from the set until it's fixed because it's a blemish on an otherwise nice set.

So I have someone at a desk in an office telling me it's wrong, while someone in the field is telling me it's "how it is". Both are Williams employees, who do you believe?

I shot off one final email to Williams to just tell them that there is a discrepancy in what they're telling me and what their rep in the field is telling me, but I don't expect much from it. I just told them what I said here - this should be removed from the set until it's fixed.

Funny thing is, almost every single person I spoke with about this (even at Williams) told me "it's really more of a prybar than a screwdriver". This makes me laugh every time because each one says in big letters on the handle "not a prybar". I told Williams that I paid for screwdrivers not prybars, so I was disappointed.

 

[Brownsfan]

I just went out side to check mine. Mine is not like that at all. Although I can't imagine this thing being used for any type of fasteners turning. It's more like a pry bar almost(sorry couldn't resist). Mine is shaped like all the other slotted drivers in the set. Yours is definitely mis shaped. I will also say I have not used mine in the year I have had the set. I also will say I am more than satisfied with the quality of mine.

 

[PT Doc]

Grind the point to the appropriate thickness without roasting the tip. Problem solved.

 

[rancherbill]

Boy. this is much different than what I guessed would happen.

So it appears they have a huge number of substandard sets filling the distribution channel. So much for their QC.

The prybar comment is funny, I wonder if it's also a chisel?

Funny thing is, almost every single person I spoke with about this (even at Williams) told me "it's really more of a prybar than a screwdriver". This makes me laugh every time because each one says in big letters on the handle "not a prybar". I told Williams that I paid for screwdrivers not prybars, so I was disappointed.

 

[bareass172]

So this may not be over yet.

The person I shot that last email to at Williams wrote me back to apologize and said they were going to forward what happened to a manager. A couple hours later I get an email from someone with a SnapOn email address asking for the pictures I had submitted. I shot them over, we'll see how it goes.

Let me be clear, I know this is not a big deal. I know I can grind the tip myself. If I typed anything to make this seem like I'm annoyed or aggravated by this, I'm not. When I first got this I figured let me get a proper replacement since they had to mail me a missing driver anyway. After that it was literally just posting here to ask if anyone else had the same (thanks to those who checked) and firing off an email because I was curious to hear Williams stance on this. Past that this thing just seems to keep going because Williams seems interested, as if this whole thing is a huge surprise to them.

I have to admit that I am impressed, if nothing else, by the fact that they really seem to want to make this right. Trust me, many businesses would have dropped the issue by now because I haven't pressed or badgered them in any of my emails. In fact, I've written and "thanked them for their time" as if this was a done deal a couple of times already. I've also made the point, more than once, to say that I'm very pleased with the quality of the rest of the set (and I am).

So we'll see I suppose, lol...

 

[Wamsutta]

Let me be clear, I know this is not a big deal. I know I can grind the tip myself.

You cannot grind the tip to the profile it's supposed to be; only the factory can. You should most definitely try to get the screwdriver replaced.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

I checked mine out, and yeah it's not at all like yours. Glad to hear Snap-On/Williams is getting on it.

 

[bareass172]

So, the person who has contacted me identified himself as a Snapon regional sales manager. He's asked me to send him a few different pictures, the problem driver as well as some proper ones so he can compare them in the pictures. So far he thanked me for sending the pics and I thanked him for expressing interest beyond a point where most other companies would have given up. His reply just about says it all:

"I come from Snap-on and Williams is part of Snap-on and we should not accept average much less below."

So color me impressed so far. It's not fixed yet, but I genuinely feel that this quality bothers them and I believe they'll do something about it before it's all said and done. I hope I'm not speaking too soon, but this is the kind of service I expect when I pay Snapon prices and I'm glad to see that Williams gets the same treatment even though it's a lower price point. I don't mind spending more when they handle things like this, it's paying more to a company who doesn't care that bothers me.

*cough* *Sears* *cough*

Excuse me...

I'll update again whenever I hear something else.

 

[bareass172]

Update on this, I got an email from the SnapOn rep who Williams put in charge of handling this for me. I told him I posted about this here, so I have his permission to post his comments. I actually think it's interesting to hear what's going on, and he's being brutally honest about the situation:

"The tips had missed a grinding step. That is being corrected. I am then looking at whether to make a screwdriver to match the others or eliminate the one from the set. That is part of a square shank set that does not have a vapor blasted tip because the finish does not require it. We used to sell a square shank set but I guess we didn’t sell enough of them in Williams. They were great because you could use a wrench anywhere on the blade for power. Anyway I guess the immediate fix will be to get you a screwdriver with the properly ground tip. Sorting out the rest will take more analysis on volume and reviewing drawings but I do want to get the square shank out of a round blade set. Our team is proud of what we do and want to make sure we delight the customer in every way and if something isn’t right we can’t not act. We are in a catalog cycle for Williams so it is a good time for a change if we need to make it."

So that's where we stand right now. Somehow, at some point, Williams removed the grinding process from the manufacturing of this one driver. I'll reiterate again that I'm impressed by the entire reaction to the problem. It's one thing to make a mistake, but to admit it so honestly and work to rectify it, well what else could you want? I understand that it would have been nice if the problem never existed, but... I think honesty goes a long way in a situation like this.

In an interesting turn of events the rep and I got to talking and he's originally from Louisiana too. We grew up in the same area, hung out at the same places, went to nearby schools, etc. It's a small world!

 

[Harrison2]

So have you got a new screwdriver yet? Im suprised he didnt call a local tool truck to you to replace the shank. Great to see them looking into it though.

 

[bareass172]

No new driver yet. Apparently this mistake in the manufacturing process has been going on for some time now, so what's in circulation has the same problem.

 

[ADSR]

Just read the whole thread. I was looking at the 19 pc set. I guess i'll hold off. What a let down coming from a company like snap on. Missing a stage in the process line is a real screw up on someones part.

 

[bareass172]

I'll be sure to post the final outcome when it's "done", as I've been trying to update as it goes. In reality, I still believe you could buy the set and grind the tip yourself, but when this started I thought it would be a quick fix when they mailed me the other problematic driver. The rest of the set is really, really nice as the many who recommended it to me indicated as well.

 

[nicksnothereman]

They should airlift you a replacement screwdriver using their corporate snap on copter. I mean really...why are they doing a forensic investigation over the internet about a sub 10 dollar screwdriver? Next thing you know they'll be asking you to complete a psychological evaluation for the emotional responses the receipt of a defect screwdriver has on your psyche.

Over a week later and you're still using your fingernails to turn those slotted screws. Hahahahaha.

 

[cheechi]

I had read this thread but hadn't had anything to contribute until now. I went to check mine, since I did not buy the 19pc set but the two individual phillips/slotted sets from TD, and was going to check the tip and finish on mine.

So the hard handle has a giant split (it's a giant handle, to be fair) and if I were being really picky the finish isn't great on it but realistically that doesn't matter to me at all. If I were to warranty this screwdriver would they replace it or just replace the handle? I haven't contacted them until I hear the resolution you post on your issue.

 

[n8n]

Wow, sounds like despite all the love the Williams drivers are getting here, they must not be selling a lot of the 19 pc. set (and possibly that particular driver isn't included in the smaller sets?)

I like the CS guy's interest in your issue, but it makes me worried that Williams is apparently just not selling a lot of volume based on the fact that you were the guy that turned it up. I would love to see Williams (and S-K) succeed so we can still have reasonably priced, quality, USA-made tools available in the future...

FWIW the one and only interaction I had with Williams CS was also completely positive. Friend picked an old S-52 out of the scrap bin at his shop, I took it apart and found that the ratchet mechanism was completely destroyed, called, sent it in, got shiny new S-52A a few weeks later. Can't really complain about that at all, especially since it was a discontinued model and I wasn't the original purchaser.

 

[bcradio]

Hey Bare,

Can you ask the rep the big question we all have here on GJ about the Williams drivers?

What differences are there between these Williams drivers and the old Snap-On hard handles they used to sell (manufacturing differences and all)?

I would LOVE to know.

 

[lametec]

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or what...

But what's so magical about the factory grind that it can't be reproduced at home?

You cannot grind the tip to the profile it's supposed to be; only the factory can. You should most definitely try to get the screwdriver replaced.

 

[ecotec]

I have been looking at this set on Amazon for a while now. I guess that I will wait. My ultimate goal is a drawer of all the USA made Williams hard handle screwdrivers, hex-drivers, Torx drivers in tool retention foam. I wish that they would sell a 14 piece version of this set.

bcradio, it looks to me like Snap-on minus the ACR.

 

[rshadd]

I just looked at the tip of my SDS-33 and it's looks exactly like the one you posted. I bought mine new from MRO Center and they are not responding, so I doubt that I have much recourse. I would have never noticed the defect had I not seen this thread. I curious how you make out getting this resolved from Williams.

 

[RCStocker]

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or what...

But what's so magical about the factory grind that it can't be reproduced at home?

Exactly my thought. If you do it right you will not change the temper and if you want to harden it you can.
The photo of the first one had rounded corners. It was a mess. I have a Tormex grinder and slow speed grinders. I refurbish the tips on drivers all the time. I use the slow grinder because it does not over heat. You can get it hot and dip it in water or oil depending what you want.

Williams is now making a lot of things over Seas and their quality is going down hill. Snap-on is relying on the name like Craftsman is.

I personally do not consider Williams to be a good tool company. Blue Point is a nothing brand now as well. All foundries are not the same. The steel is not all the same quality let alone the finishing. I am just shocked they would send out something so bad.

 

[sloppy]

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or what...

But what's so magical about the factory grind that it can't be reproduced at home?

I am glad I am not the only one who thought this was silly

 

[Brownsfan]

I have been looking at this set on Amazon for a while now. I guess that I will wait. My ultimate goal is a drawer of all the USA made Williams hard handle screwdrivers, hex-drivers, Torx drivers in tool retention foam. I wish that they would sell a 14 piece version of this set.

bcradio, it looks to me like Snap-on minus the ACR.

Mine have the ACR ribs. On the p1,2,3,4

 

[bareass172]

Over a week later and you're still using your fingernails to turn those slotted screws. Hahahahaha.

I finally did pop the question to him after all this back and forth - "how long until I get the new one?" Apparently it will take 2-3 weeks to grind the tip on a screwdriver... Luckily I have another big one so it's not that big a deal, but I actually do use this size regularly.

Cheechi - I'd email them good pictures and see what they say. I started this route and they told me my options were to go back through my reseller because they were new OR mail it in. I'm sure you'd have no problem getting a replacement, you just have to mail that monster in. Maybe ask them if you can cut it in half so it fits in a smaller box?

n8n - I was surprised that I'm the only person to see this too. Perhaps it's more common, but others are just grinding the tips themselves. If I hadn't had to get the replacement for the missing driver I very likely would have done the same.

bcradio - I actually asked him about several things that are commonly touted here as the same but under different branding. His reply was - "There may be some engineering cooperation but I would be surprised if they would be the same. Snap-on does not like to put their best out with the other brands to sell." When asking about Bahco stuff, like some ratchets being "dual 80 clones" he said "Usually the Europeans like to build their own stuff... Doubtful."

I believe him too, he's been with SO for 34 years and he said his dad was with them for 40+. He's a SO family man and he's lived all over the world working for them.

rshadd - I'd contact Williams directly and mention this thread. There absolutely must be a few people who are aware of the problem with all the hoopla they seem to be making over mine.

To quote my latest email from Williams on this (and repeat some from above), this was the response when I asked for a timeline:

"The guy I am working with is out until next week but will check what the plan is. I think that we will be staying with the square shank for this large blade because of the length. While we did not vapor blast the tips on these, I guess because it is more cosmetic than functional in purpose for this style blade, we will be changing that going forward so they match the other SIB drivers. I think the first step is to grind and finish the tips and that should be 2-3 weeks best guess. The Vapor blast is a change in print which I have no idea how long that will take. I will check and advise."

So there it is, I imagine the long delay is simply because they're not making me 1 driver but revamping the process. Oh well, I still have my old Crescent monster to hold me for now.

 

[cheechi]

Thanks for the update. I will start with the vendor and see if they would just get me another handle, but if I do have to return it I definitely plan to make sure you approve of your replacement driver first.

Mine is a low priority since I do also have a similar size, but my dad likes to use it for a 'poke/prod/prybar' despite that it's held up pretty well.

 

[rshadd]

Thanks for the update. I sent an email to Williams along with some pics of the defect. I also referenced this thread, so we'll see what happens. Hopefully Williams will resolve their manufacturing issues and stand behind their warranty.