wire placement

[moore_power]

Hello all,

Newbie here, learning a lot.

Just finished building my 30x32 garage here in SE Pennslyvania. I hired an electrician to run a sub-panel out to the garage and wire outlets to the garage door openers.

I decided to save some $ and finish the electrical myself.

So now for the question. What distance (from the CB panel) should I drill holes for running romex to my light switches?

It is close to the circuit breaker panel so I figured instead of running the wire all the way up the stud and back down I could just drill left to the switches.

Here's a picture of what I'm trying to say.

Thanks for all your help and ideas

 

[jclem40c]

Thats the way to do it but be sure to drill the wire holes 1 1/2 inches
in on the studs at least. The reason for this is if and when you put
up rock or whatever for walls you dont run a drywall screw into the romex.
Or you coould go a little more money and run BX. Gotta insulate too.

John

 

[nehog]

Most framing lumber (2x4, 2x6) will have a 'center' line painted on them which allows you to quickly drill your holes centered. But I recommend putting protection plates over the wires so you don't (at any point in the future) accidentally drive a nail or screw into the wire.

 

[ddawg16]

I call them nail plates.....cheap insurance.....

On the light switch....as far as I know, it does not matter if you come in from the top or bottom....if so, just come in from the top.....I prefer that because it's less likely that the wires will 'fall out' of the box....

 

[mrb]

is this garage attached to your house?

 

[aandpdan]

Are you going to sheetrock it?

If you say "no" then I'd run the wire up to the top of the stud bay and across the top plate. I know you'll use more wire but they'll be out of the way and better protected. At the height it looks like you're about to put it, if you anchor anything to the walls, a cabinet or something, you'll have a wire running behind it.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Your drawing looks fine. I'm sure you'll enjoy drilling/running the wire through the corner. It can be a PITA.

 

[bww_mnm]

this should probably be under electrical section ... you'd get the expert answers if so.

 

[moore_power]

is this garage attached to your house?

No, detached

Are you going to sheetrock it?

If you say "no" then I'd run the wire up to the top of the stud bay and across the top plate. I know you'll use more wire but they'll be out of the way and better protected. At the height it looks like you're about to put it, if you anchor anything to the walls, a cabinet or something, you'll have a wire running behind it.

No sheetrock. Going with plywood not sure of 7/16 or 1/2 yet. There isn't much room in the corner for mounting anything except a couple corner shelves. Appreciate it.

I'll grab some nailplates on my next run to HD or Lowes.

Thanks for all your help. Finished drilling the holes for running wire tonight. The "Irwin" speedbors worked great. I was a little depressed that my buddies Dewalt impact was drilling faster than my Milwaukee impact. haha

 

[mrb]

is that orange romex coming out of the wall and into the subpanel? can you post a picture of the panel with the cover off?

 

[moore_power]

Yes, 10-3 I believe.

 

[mrb]

Yes, 10-3 I believe.

and it runs in a pipe underground?

 

[moore_power]

and it runs in a pipe underground?

Correct

 

[mrb]

Correct

that entire install is not proper, safe, or to code. you need to have a talk with this 'electrician' that did the work. was it a real licensed electrician or some guy you found on craigslist?

you should fix this install before bothering with any of the additional wiring youre discussing here.

the major issues are:
-romex cannot be underground, even in a conduit
-you need four wires (incl ground) from the house, not three (these all have to be in the same conduit or cable -you cannot pull another conductor alongside your romex
-you are missing the required grounding electrodes.

 

[moore_power]

that entire install is not proper, safe, or to code. you need to have a talk with this 'electrician' that did the work. was it a real licensed electrician or some guy you found on craigslist?

you should fix this install before bothering with any of the additional wiring youre discussing here.

the major issues are:
-romex cannot be underground, even in a conduit
-you need four wires (incl ground) from the house, not three (these all have to be in the same conduit or cable -you cannot pull another conductor alongside your romex
-you are missing the required grounding electrodes.

It was a licensed electrician. It is feeding a 30amp sub-panel in the garage. (I know it's not much, but I don't do any welding or will have any equipment in there that will require more.)

it was 10-2. He didn't seem to have any issues with the wire type. My understanding is that grounding electrodes were not needed from a sub-panel with breaker switch from the main panel.

I'll check when the inspector comes

 

[mrb]

It was a licensed electrician. It is feeding a 30amp sub-panel in the garage. (I know it's not much, but I don't do any welding or will have any equipment in there that will require more.)

it was 10-2. He didn't seem to have any issues with the wire type. My understanding is that grounding electrodes were not needed from a sub-panel with breaker switch from the main panel.

I'll check when the inspector comes

thats scary. all of this is really basic stuff.

grounding electrodes are required for any detached structure. you ALSO need a grounding conductor back to the service. these two things serve entirely different purposes. in the garage subpanel, you have to have seperate neutral and ground bus bars with the ground bar bonded to the can and the neutral bar isolated.

post a picture of the panel with the cover off.

and again, normal romex cannot go underground. if its piped all the way it should have just been four THWN wires.

 

[moore_power]

The panel exposed

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a standard electrical code and not just this code of interpretations as to how an individual municipality sees fit or an individual person. You see. It works like this, a ground will follow the path of least resistance, and in the unfortunate event that there is a storm that causes a surge or you are wet on a humid day, you will be that path. You, if you are very fortunate will never know what hit you, if you are unlucky enough to survive you will never know a moment without severe pain, a constant screaming ring in your ears, a burning sensation throughout your body. This is what one of my best pals described the feeling as, he could not take the pain and he opted out. And to save a few bucks most people set themselves up to get tagged and experience the same feeling or burn their homes to the ground. The system this man is referring to is known as redundant grounding, it protects you in the event that any lug or terminal has lost it's contact, the system now has a basic fail safe, a second or a third ground point. Common code.

 

[blazsawgras]

look like same style box i put in my garage. look like square d . i run 6 gauge to my garage.

 

[mrb]

ok, so you do have 4 wires with isolated neutral and ground, but the romex is a problem as is the lack of grounding electrodes

 

[mrb]

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a standard electrical code and not just this code of interpretations as to how an individual municipality sees fit or an individual person. You see. It works like this, a ground will follow the path of least resistance, and in the unfortunate event that there is a storm that causes a surge or you are wet on a humid day, you will be that path. You, if you are very fortunate will never know what hit you, if you are unlucky enough to survive you will never know a moment without severe pain, a constant screaming ring in your ears, a burning sensation throughout your body. This is what one of my best pals described the feeling as, he could not take the pain and he opted out. And to save a few bucks most people set themselves up to get tagged and experience the same feeling or burn their homes to the ground. The system this man is referring to is known as redundant grounding, it protects you in the event that any lug or terminal has lost it's contact, the system now has a basic fail safe, a second or a third ground point. Common code.

actually its not redundant grounding or having multiple grounds or whatever. the ground back to the house (EGC) and the grounding electrodes serve two entirely different purposes.

read this http://ecmweb.com/grounding/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_2/#

 

[bobabuee]

the breakers look pretty old used?these should be new not used

 

[moore_power]

the breakers look pretty old used?these should be new not used

You are correct. They were the existing ones from the "old" garage. I'll be sure to pick up new ones on my next trip to HD or Lowes.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

actually its not redundant grounding or having multiple grounds or whatever. the ground back to the house (EGC) and the grounding electrodes serve two entirely different purposes.

read this http://ecmweb.com/grounding/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_2/#

Let's leave it at this, he should pull a permit have a licensed contractor do it and he should have it inspected. This way he has a chance that it will be correct.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Then there is the issue of the disconnect. Since it is detached, it is required by code to have a disconnect at the detached structure, either outside, or inside in or before the panel. If your orange wire comes in underground in a conduit, we know that there is not a disconnect on the outside of the building, and we can clearly see that there is not one in or adjacent to the panel. The only exception to this is the six movements of the hand rule. If you have no more than six breakers to trip, then you don't need a disconnect. However this is an eight space panel, and there is always the possibility that the panel will be filled up in the future. Right now, you meet the rules, but you may not in the future.

If you install a disconnect, it must be rated at a minimum of 60 amps, no matter that you have only 30 amps feeding the panel.

You will regret not having put in at least 60 amps of capacity. I would consider 30 amps a minimum for a storage shed.

Charles

 

[Dodge]

The picture doesn't look like you have a main breaker for that box. Isn't that a must?

 

[scada]

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a standard electrical code and not just this code of interpretations as to how an individual municipality sees fit or an individual person.

The NFPA/NEC is a good start. Most Municipalities use the NEC as law by reference. Most inspectors have never read the thing I would say. I have been thru inspections by Government entities in the past (though not for a house). The main thing is to know the code and establish a relationship.

 

[Grumpy365]

thats scary. all of this is really basic stuff.

grounding electrodes are required for any detached structure. you ALSO need a grounding conductor back to the service. these two things serve entirely different purposes. in the garage subpanel, you have to have seperate neutral and ground bus bars with the ground bar bonded to the can and the neutral bar isolated.

.

It's interesting you bring this up, i was reading a couple of weeks ago here
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php/132692-Multiple-Earth-Grounds

And the way i saw it, external buildings don't get a ground rod (egc).

Am I reading the post wrong or missing something?

Please educate me (seriously, I am not trying to be a smart ***, just trying to learn).