Wire Run in New Kitchen Island

[Two Pump Chump]

What is the code approved way to run 20A wire from the slab conduit to the pony walls for electrical outlets ? My best guess is electrical conduit, obviously, but up to the counter invert then across to outlet location or some other routing ? There will be three outlets, conventionally run through the studs, one on each end below counter level and one off floor level on the long axis side. One GFCI and 2 TR 20A. - thanks

{Not moving the island or the slab}

 

[mm08822]

Recepts in the walls of islands are now prohibited under the 2023 code. Cords were being pulled on by youngins and getting burned/injured by various appliances in use.

Now the recepts are supposed to go through the island top surface. See NEC 210.52(C)(3). Some set-ups even have drawer mounted recepts for cell phone charging with the devices stored in the "closed: drawer.

Check with your AHJ for what he will allow.

Edit: Fixed it for those picking fly sh*t out of the pepper.

 

[Two Pump Chump]

Wow !! What ? How ?? Never mind.

Thanks for the startling news.

 

[PCustoms]

Interesting, didn't know there was a 2024 NEC

It looks like CA is still on the 2020 version.

 

[Kezorm]

Interesting, didn't know there was a 2024 NEC

Actually 2023 NEC, but otherwise correct. Receptacle outlets are no longer required on an island. If provided, they cannot be on the side below the countertop.

Kitchen Island and Peninsula Outlets and the NEC

Learn more about how the current and past three editions of the NEC address kitchen island and peninsula receptacle outlets.

www.nfpa.org

 

[sparky 1971]

Actually 2023 NEC, but otherwise correct. Receptacle outlets are no longer required on an island. If provided, they cannot be on the side below the countertop.

Kitchen Island and Peninsula Outlets and the NEC

Learn more about how the current and past three editions of the NEC address kitchen island and peninsula receptacle outlets.

www.nfpa.org

For 2023 they aren't required but provisions for future outlets must be made. A cable in a junction box is good enough.

OP, if you are on the 2020 or older, you can install the outlets on an end as long as there isn't an overhang on the counter top. I don't remember the minimum overhang distance, but if it's set up for a bar stool to sit at the island, it's too far and can't have an outlet. The last island I wired was a 3X8 base with a 4X8 top. It had a 2X6 wall across the front so I cut a box into the face of the end 2X6's and called it good. As far as getting into the wall, just break the pipe off at the floor like you should have done before installing the cable, just let it lay on the floor and into the wall.

 

[Norcal]

Recepts in the walls of islands are now prohibited under the 2024 code. Cords were being pulled on by youngins and getting burned/injured by various appliances in use.

Now the recepts are supposed to go through the island top surface. See NEC 210.52(C)(3). Some set-ups even have drawer mounted recepts for cell phone charging with the devices stored in the "closed: drawer.

Check with your AHJ for what he will allow.

There is no 2024 NEC, there are the 2020, & 2023 editions. CA uses the 2020 NEC.

 

[Two Pump Chump]

Location is in Idaho, 83468. The State inspector already saw the "rough in" as is and passed the house with two other flags of omission, neither of which was the island. I think he avoided it entirely on purpose. So how should I run the wire in my illegal install ?

 

[PCustoms]

There is no 2024 NEC, there are the 2020, & 2023 editions. CA uses the 2020 NEC.

So along with mm08822 being wrong about the NEC cycle, is a counter outlet prohibited, or are you required to make provisions for future install?

 

[mm08822]

fat finger......202345!!

 

[rlitman]

fat finger......202345!!

2023, 2024, whatever it takes.

 

[mm08822]

So a ong with mm08822 being wrong about the NEC cycle, is a counter outlet prohibited, or are you required to make provisions for future install?

You can provide recepts in the island as long as cords don't hang over the counter top to plug in. If that is not done there needs to be provisions made now to later reach the island for future installation.

 

[sparky 1971]

Location is in Idaho, 83468. The State inspector already saw the "rough in" as is and passed the house with two other flags of omission, neither of which was the island. I think he avoided it entirely on purpose. So how should I run the wire in my illegal install ?

See post 6.


Again, Break the pipe off at the floor and run the cable on the floor to a box, you may have to notch the bottom of the cabinet upon installation as well as the base plate of the wall now to keep from screwing up the cable. Put the boxes in the framed wall and call it a day. There cannot be a countertop overhang above the outlet(s), so don't put a box there. If, by chance, there are overhangs on all three usable sides, you're gonna have to use pop up receptacles installed in the countertops.

 

[mm08822]

Location is in Idaho, 83468. The State inspector already saw the "rough in" as is and passed the house with two other flags of omission, neither of which was the island. I think he avoided it entirely on purpose. So how should I run the wire in my illegal install ?

What is the plan for the island......cabinets all around, dead fronts - 2 sides, 4 sides ?

Wait until inspection is over if you want to keep your original plan.

 

[billconner]

Counter overhang? Is 1" too much? I shouldn't care since my outlets in my island are inspected and clearly not compliant with at least 2023 NEC. iirc NY was on 2017 when this was done, or maybe 2014.

 

[mm08822]

Hows bout cord drops hanging out of the ceiling? Add some perdy stainless steel boxes at the end of the cord to match the appliances.

 

[sparky 1971]

Counter overhang? Is 1" too much? I shouldn't care since my outlets in my island are inspected and clearly not compliant with at least 2023 NEC. iirc NY was on 2017 when this was done, or maybe 2014.

All countertops have a bit of an overhang, but there us a point where it's too much to have a code compliant receptacle under it. Basically, if a stool can be pulled up to it and someone sit at it as if it were a bar, it's too much. I am currently in the hospital and I'll be darned if I didn't forget my code book so I am currently unable to look it up. I could use Google, but since anyone else also could, I choose not to.

 

[jar944]

2023 nec no outlets below the countertop.



Which is ridiculous since the justification for requiring them was the same for removing them.

 

[billconner]

2023 nec no outlets below the countertop.



Which is ridiculous since the justification for requiring them was the same for removing them.

I predict this will be very unpopular and more than a few kitchens will circumvent this.

Any reason the third option couldn't be an exposed box with a blank cover? Or is a switch allowed on an island below the countertop?

 

[sparky 1971]

I predict this will be very unpopular and more than a few kitchens will circumvent this.

Any reason the third option couldn't be an exposed box with a blank cover? Or is a switch allowed on an island below the countertop?

The reasoning is because appliance cords are too short to reach, and places to install receptacles in islands are disappearing due to all of the drawers, slide outs, trash can holders, etc. One plus of the 2023 rule is that island receptacles aren't required at all, but a cable in a junction box for future provisions does have to be present. Get the final over with and cut an outlet wherever you would like. Not that I would do such a dastardly thing.

 

[The Cobbler]

The reasoning is because appliance cords are too short to reach,

not arguing, but we all know that appliances will probably end up on islands even for temporary use ... so an extension cord laying over the floor is somehow better ?

 

[sparky 1971]

not arguing, but we all know that appliances will probably end up on islands even for temporary use ... so an extension cord laying over the floor is somehow better ?

I know. It's stupid, but somewhere, sometime, someone was bent over plugging in a crock pot and pulled it off the island and onto his or her head, not because he/she was too stupid to feel the weight of it dragging closer to the edge, but because the cord was too short. That's why the no outlets under an overhang rule has been in effect for years. A lot of times a pop-up can be installed in the countertops, but for every one that fits, there is at least one more that won't because the depth isn't there. If there is a full depth drawer there, it ain't gonna work. Put the wire in a box underneath and wait till the final inspection is over with and put them wherever you like. That is only for the 2023 NEC and maybe future editions. Not all states are that current, we are on the 2020 and there is at least one outlet required, maybe more depending on the square footage and it can be tough. So far, I've been able to get away with one even though there should have been another but since there was no place to install it due to the overhang, it was overlooked. That doesn't mean one wasn't installed under the overhang later though.

 

[jar944]

not arguing, but we all know that appliances will probably end up on islands even for temporary use ... so an extension cord laying over the floor is somehow better ?

That was the reason they required them, too many people burned with hot liquid from snagging a cord that was plugged into an the outlet on a wall with the appliance on the island.

The requirement for the junction box is telling. It would seem even they don't believe this rule change will be long lived.

 

[jar944]

and places to install receptacles in islands are disappearing due to all of the drawers, slide outs, trash can holders,.

Bocci 22 series. If those won't fit its a poorly designed island.

 

[The Cobbler]

^^^ wow, I wonder how many people would opt for those, given the price. they do look neat tho!.

 

[yatg]

Ooh nooooo!

 

[Norcal]

Bocci 22 series. If those won't fit its a poorly designed island.

If they choke on the price of popup receptacles, they really will choke on the price of the above receptacles, there is a very pricey tool for access & installation too.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Recepts in the walls of islands are now prohibited under the 2024 code. Cords were being pulled on by youngins and getting burned/injured by various appliances in use.

Now the recepts are supposed to go through the island top surface. See NEC 210.52(C)(3). Some set-ups even have drawer mounted recepts for cell phone charging with the devices stored in the "closed: drawer.

Check with your AHJ for what he will allow.

You mean 2023?

 

[mm08822]

You mean 2023?

Yup, you're late to the party

I ordered my Geritol branded keyboard to plug into my phone.

 

[larry4406]

Interesting discussion folks, thank you.

We are building to the 2018 Virginia Residential Code (VRC) and we provide side island outlets and the outlets need to be not less than 12" from the counter top due to short cord issue. I hope the VRC does not adopt this.

 

[jar944]

Interesting discussion folks, thank you.

We are building to the 2018 Virginia Residential Code (VRC) and we provide side island outlets and the outlets need to be not less than 12" from the counter top due to short cord issue. I hope the VRC does not adopt this.

I imagine it changes before virginia moves to the newer code.

 

[jar944]

If they choke on the price of popup receptacles, they really will choke on the price of the above receptacles, there is a very pricey tool for access & installation too.

I hate pop-up/ in counter receptacles for a variety of reasons. Cost is on the list but at the bottom. Aesthetics and functionality are the top two.

 

[ericm]

What functionality problems have you had with them?

Oregon's on 2023 so we'll have to use them in the house we're building. Do they make any that are completely flush and use a cutout out of the counter material on the top?

 

[billconner]

Well I wondered if instead of pop up it could be a pocket, like a floor pocket. That would make using countertop material possible.

 

[pbon]

We just did a kitchen in NH. Our island has a power junction box in it for an under counter microwave. But the inspector required an outlet so we added one just under the countertop. Happy we did not have to hack up the marble.

 

[dcg9381]

If, by chance, there are overhangs on all three usable sides, you're gonna have to use pop up receptacles installed in the countertops.

I have installed several of the Hubble outlets on my counter tops. I absolutely love them.

 

[Max]

What functionality problems have you had with them?

Oregon's on 2023 so we'll have to use them in the house we're building. Do they make any that are completely flush and use a cutout out of the counter material on the top?

Post #24 above shows ones that can be in a cutout.

Personally I’m not sure that I’d want outlets flush on a counter. They’d look good and they;d be easy to use. But if you spilled a liquid it’d go right into the outlet…

 

[larry4406]

Post #24 above shows ones that can be in a cutout.

Personally I’m not sure that I’d want outlets flush on a counter. They’d look good and they;d be easy to use. But if you spilled a liquid it’d go right into the outlet…

Agreed - plus all the countertop bits and smegma which will find its way in.

 

[ericm]

Post #24 above shows ones that can be in a cutout.

From their web site it looks like they are just flush mounted outlets not pop ups.

What I want is like in post #36 except they're not proud of the counter surface.

Personally I’m not sure that I’d want outlets flush on a counter. They’d look good and they;d be easy to use. But if you spilled a liquid it’d go right into the outlet…

Maybe the couple mm high rim around those in post 36 prevents that? Seems like liquid would just go under the rim but maybe not.

If we had two levels on the island we could have outlets on the vertical step between them. But having two levels on the island isn't going to happen. We have that now and my wife hates it. I'm not much of a fan either. It's going to be one big slab.

 

[jar944]

Agreed - plus all the countertop bits and smegma which will find its way in.

This.