Wireless control for Rinnai wall furnace?

[garandman]

We have a 36,000 BTU wall furnace at our place in NH. It does not have an external thermostat. Depending on season, we shut it off or turn it way down. We have Internet there.

Is there any way we could control this remotely? Presumably we could get a wireless on/off switch, but would like to control set point. But the only Rinnai part I've seen is for a tankless water heater.

 

[mygarageone]

What brand wall furnace ? I'm not sure but what about the nest stat by Honeywell ?
I know nothing about them period but what I have heard.

 

[Jackfre]

At this time, no...but stay tuned. Sorry, I cannot elaborate. Exactly what model do you have? The 1001, 1004, ES38? I was the Rinnai rep in New England from 1991-2011. I sold about 80,000 of that unit. It is what I'm putting in my new garage

 

[Rockhead261]

At this time, no...but stay tuned. Sorry, I cannot elaborate. Exactly what model do you have? The 1001, 1004, ES38? I was the Rinnai rep in New England from 1991-2011. I sold about 80,000 of that unit. It is what I'm putting in my new garage

Subbed.

I have a 1004 and have been yearning for programmability for over a decade

Please keep us posted.

 

[Jackfre]

Will do!

 

[garandman]

At this time, no...but stay tuned. Sorry, I cannot elaborate. Exactly what model do you have? The 1001, 1004, ES38? I was the Rinnai rep in New England from 1991-2011. I sold about 80,000 of that unit. It is what I'm putting in my new garage

Looks like the ES38 but I'm not there.

I have a solution to try. I'll adjust the internal thermostat for around 70 F. In the meantime I purchased a Belkin Wemo switch. This switch can be turned on and off remotely with a smartphone app if you have Wifi (we do).

It's still pretty new and some people have had problems with the app, but for $50 it's worth a try.

I'm going to replace the thermostat for the baseboards in the living room with a Wifi-enabled Honeywell thermostat that will show me the temperature. That will work out because we can use the old thermostat at our house in Boston.

 

[Rockhead261]

I'll adjust the internal thermostat for around 70 F. In the meantime I purchased a Belkin Wemo switch. This switch can be turned on and off remotely with a smartphone app if you have Wifi (we do).

I thought of this years ago and determined it was not a good idea. This method can cut power while the unit is running. This means the blower stops with a hot heat exchanger. The resulting heat soak can pop a safety and/or damage the equipment/sensors.

I never tried it, but the risks outweighed the benefits.

 

[garandman]

I thought of this years ago and determined it was not a good idea. This method can cut power while the unit is running. This means the blower stops with a hot heat exchanger. The resulting heat soak can pop a safety and/or damage the equipment/sensors.

I never tried it, but the risks outweighed the benefits.

I only need to turn it on, not off. Once we get there and fire up the wood stove we usually shut it off anyway.

Wemo came this morning, should be able to hook it up Friday.

 

[Jackfre]

The unit will retain its settings after your power outage and so would start up. The comment about causing a limit to trigger after a power failure is possible, but I do not recall it happening on the 1004/38 models. It used to happen occasionally on the old 556's but the re-design of that unit rectified that issue.

I spoke with Rinnai engineering yesterday and that board has no connection point for a hook up, so it is a no go there.

 

[Jackfre]

Also, you have two filters at the top of the unit. Make sure they are clean and any residual heat left during a power failure will simply gravity flow up and out the filters. When the filters are dirty you trap the heat and can trip a limit. The unit will re-start after the power outage.

 

[garandman]

Does Rinnai make any other model with provision for an external thermostat? I love the unit otherwise. It was able to keep the entire house (which is only 1250sf) warm at -10 F by itself.

 

[Jackfre]

I introduced that product line in New England in '91. I will not be without at least one in my home. I work with them on a consulting basis today and work on new product development. As a result, I have to be careful what I say. None of the heaters have wireless capability at this time.

From your handle I will assume I'm in the right ball park here, but I used to shoot a Nat'l Match Garand in Hi-Power. Sweet!

 

[garandman]

The unit we have is a RHFE-1001FA/VA-P.

Tried the Wemo switch - it works! My wife is going up Friday so that will be our first use.

 

[Jackfre]

That unit hasn't been made since, I think, '99. It is a two stage unit. 12,500/36,500 btu. The unit that replaced it the 1004 modulated in seven stage, 10.5-38kbtu.

When we sold the MA house and moved west, I pulled the old 1001 out of the garage and brought it with me. It is going in the new garage I'm building now. Great unit.

 

[garandman]

You've given me an idea. We have to replace the garage heater, and old Modine unit up by the ceiling. It looks about like this.

Think I'll see about putting this Rinnai up there and putting the newer model in the house.

 

[Jackfre]

No, you do not want the Rinnai up there. Having the heat coming out at floor level greatly improves your comfort. I was welding floor pans in an old BMW years ago in my old garage. Zero outside in an uninsulated block garage. 68* inside and the air was blowing under the car while I was on a creeper. Nice! As well, the thermostat bulb is located 2" off the floor sensing the coldest air in the space. Code requires that a combustion device installed in a garage must be 18" off the floor. Mine wasn't, but that is the code.

 

[garandman]

I don't mean to replace it in that position.... Also, this is upstairs of the garage, so "not garage."

 

[garandman]

Looks like Rinnai addressed this themselves.

https://www.rinnai.us/system/files/...eless Thermostat Kit Product Announcement.pdf

Now, Rinnai Energy Saver® Direct Vent Wall Furnaces (T Series) are even smarter, thanks to Rinnai’s new Wall Thermostat Installation Kit. This simple-to-install kit connects to any thermostat, including Wi-Fi enabled smart thermostats and standard systems, to enhance system performance.

$80. Now we have to get internet working reliably....

The house now has The newest model 36,000 BTU wall unit. We also installed a larger Hearthstone wood stove.

 

[Jackfre]

The "newest model" is the "T" models made since April '17. Only the T models will accept the wireless stat. They have the you tube video of the stat kit install. In my opinion, unless you want wireless control of the unit then a wall stat on a Rinnai is a solution in search of a problem. The wall stat takes over all temp control functions from the unit. Be careful where you place the wall stat. When set up to recognize the wall stat the Rinnai will learn time to temp set point and modify its modulation accordingly. The unit wants long run times and tries to run at the lowest set-point that will number one, satisfy your comfort demands and two, run at the lowest input to ensure long run times. Don't put the wall stat right next to the heater. I may be wrong on this as I haven't a great deal of experience with these yet, but think about the positioning carefully in relation to the unit and the floor plan.

 

[VoidIndigo]

Hi, I found this thread today via Google searches, so please forgive me for being a "first-time new-poster" and asking dumb questions... but this is the most informative thread I've found on this. I have a Rinnai RHFE-1004FA-P heater that I am trying to replace the temp sensor on, so I can add time-based rules to lower the temp while I'm not home. Am I reading this correctly, that this can't be done on the model that I have?

Thanks so much!
Scott

 

[Jackfre]

No can do on the 1004. The 1004 was introduced in '98 and its production ended in '07 or '08. It does not have the option of the low(er) temp settings. The 04 factory stat low setting is about 56*. Set the stat at its lowest and then hit the economy button. That is a 4* set-back. It was replaced by the ES-38 which has what Rinnai calls a Frost setting. This was used to let you go down as low as 38* for your maintenance temp when away. Last year the T models were introduced and allow you, with the optional kit, to operate the unit with whatever wi-fi stat you choose. I sold almost a qtr million Rinnai Energysavers and was not a fan of a wall stat for them. Reason being that they typically operate at a very consistent temperature across the seven stage modulation and do so reliably. The Japanese Engineers worked the software over to be able to allow the unit to operate with a wall stat and they have worked very well in that regard. Your 1004 is an excellent heater, but you have no option other than that which I have listed.

 

[PWH]

Hi All,

I've had this question/problem for years and finally solved it. I bought a Switchbot and hub for about $80. It's basically a tiny robotic finger that can press the on/off button on my Rinnai. Granted, it's not full featured as it only does that one thing, but for me it's amazing. I can finally turn on the heat remotely before I arrive at my house.

 

[Jackfre]

All of the current 17, 22 & 38 models have an optional accessory package to allow your choice of a wall thermostat. It is not backward compatible. If you want a wireless control so you can do what PWH is doing, that is now possible. Unless it is for wireless operation I continue to think a wall thermostat is a solution in search of a problem.

 

[frankush]

I purchased and installed a Rinnai EX38CTN last year at a cabin I have in northern WI. Overall it's a pretty nice unit and heats the 800 sq. ft. place fairly well. I totally understand the possible need for a remote stat. For one, I think the stat on the unit does a poor job of regulating temperature. It likes to overheat the space before shutting off. I have to adjust the stat at least 5 to 8 degrees lower than I normally would. The heater hits my setpoint and just keeps on running. I can see where a remote stat with an adjustable anticipator could remedy this.

The fan is noisier than I would like, but the thing I hate most is the 12" height on the intake\exhaust vent. It's really too low for the snow totals we get at that location. The kit that Rinnai offers to raise the vent is ugly as sin. It was an expensive heater and there is zero local support for these heaters in northern WI. Not much else out there with a modulating gas valve and a variable speed blower though. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Jackfre]

QUOTE=frankush;8321389]I purchased and installed a Rinnai EX38CTN last year at a cabin I have in northern WI. Overall it's a pretty nice unit and heats the 800 sq. ft. place fairly well. I totally understand the possible need for a remote stat. For one, I think the stat on the unit does a poor job of regulating temperature. It likes to overheat the space before shutting off. I have to adjust the stat at least 5 to 8 degrees lower than I normally would. The heater hits my setpoint and just keeps on running. I can see where a remote stat with an adjustable anticipator could remedy this.

The fan is noisier than I would like, but the thing I hate most is the 12" height on the intake\exhaust vent. It's really too low for the snow totals we get at that location. The kit that Rinnai offers to raise the vent is ugly as sin. It was an expensive heater and there is zero local support for these heaters in northern WI. Not much else out there with a modulating gas valve and a variable speed blower though. Sorry for the hijack.[/QUOTE]

Is the cabin an open floor plan or a series of rooms? Take the rt side panel off the unit and take the yellow stat bulb out of its position. Pull the wire,,,gently, up and stick the black build out the side as high as you can. Currently that bulb is 2" off the flor and sensing the temp close to the floor. How much leakage isothere thru the floor or at the floor/wall. I've had to throw a bead of caulk in there to prevent air leakage. Raising the bulb offsets some of that problem. The minimum fire on the 38 is 13,200 btu. That unit will run at as low an input as it possibly can. If it is in a smaller room it will take no time for 13.2 to run the temperature up. It wants to keep running. My unit in my MA home would start running the end of Oct and not shut down until the beginning of April, but it modulated on its programmable stat to provide comfort. What's the floor plan? I can hear the fan on my 38 for sure but it is not objectionable.
Your biggest problem is the 12" clearance on the vent. That is a minimum clearance and you could have run it vertically and gained several inches while staying inside the cover. I just went out to my shop and measured mine and I could have easily made a 21" clearance. I agree the vent extensions are not even remotely pretty, but you can cover them. That would certainly eliminate any snow clearance issues. The NFPA code says a MINIMUM 12" clearance or snow load depth. Raise the vent if it is getting buried. You have over 1000 posts, here Frank. I would have been happy to discuss these issues with you prior to the purchase/installation. I will continue to assist if you would care to chat. PM sent.

 

[laj8484]

All of the current 17, 22 & 38 models have an optional accessory package to allow your choice of a wall thermostat. It is not backward compatible. If you want a wireless control so you can do what PWH is doing, that is now possible. Unless it is for wireless operation I continue to think a wall thermostat is a solution in search of a problem.

I had a Rinnai EX22CN Direct Vent Wall Furnace Natural Gas installed in December. The rep also installed the Remote Thermostat (picture below). I was told this would make the heater "WiFi enabled". The heater was installed in a separate room where there was no heat.

Now what???

There was no wall thermostat installed so how do remotely control the heater?
I can't seem to find any answers...Rinnai customer service wasn't any help and it's cold here in New England!
-Laura

 

[Jackfre]

Your contractor should be horsewhipped. It is capable of being wi-fi controlled sith the kit, but you need a wireless capable stat to be hooked up to it as well. That should have been part of the original install as apparently he has left you with an in-op unit. As factory supplied the unit has a seven day programmable stat built in. Unless you need the wi-fi feature I would forget it and go back to the unit mounted control.

 

[Bigsmith]

Long-time lurker, new member...

I'm reviving this old thread to discuss the latest Rinnai EX...DT series of direct vent wall furnaces. The sales materials say these models are "WiFi enabled thermostat connection ready."

Does this mean they can be wired directly to a 24 volt external thermostat without requiring an adapter like the CT series did?

If connected to an external stat, do they retain modulating burner functionality? I've seen conflicting reports on this, and am trying to wrap my head around how this would work if the internal stat is bypassed.

Are there any other changes in the DT series?

My potential application is for a church office. We'd like to heat it without running a big furnace all week when only the pastor is usually there. My interest in an external thermostat isn't so much for WIFI, but for the ability to set different heating schedules for different days of the week, which it doesn't appear (to me) can be done with the internal timers.

Thanks!

 

[PoorUB]

I would assume it has connections for some sort of thermostat, plus an app you can download and run from a smart phone.
I doubt the connection from the heater to the thermostat is WiFi. But I was wrong one other time.

 

[Jackfre]

There is a wireless kit you can order from Rinnai allowing you to be able to run the Wi-Fi stat of your choice. I ran a wireless prototype in my home for a year or two and have to say that they pushed the programming around in such a way to deliver very much the same comfort as the original units.

 

[Bigsmith]

So this "wireless kit" provides a wireless connection between the furnace and an external thermostat?

 

[Jackfre]

Yes, That is my understanding, but I’ve been retired for 5 yrs and have no relationship with Rinnai any longer, other than as a user of the products. Call them and ask 800 621-9419

 

[fitter30]

Alexa wired switch in series with thermostat just check the amps of the thermostat if line voltage to pick a switch made for the amps.

 

[Jackfre]

There is an accessory part that must be used to interface the external wireless stat. REad the manual for the T model DV’s

 

[Bigsmith]

OK, I looked at the manual for EX11DT. The external stat interface is the exact same part 204000045 that the CT series uses. Wired connection to an external thermostat and still a 24v wall wart to power it. So the marketing speak is a little different but there hasn't been any change.

 

[Jackfre]

They thing about adding an external stat of whatever type on the Rinnai DV’s is that as manufactured they work extremely well meaning that the seven stage modulation of the gas valve and blower are really tight operatiing off the thermistor being 2” off the floor, the coldest spot in the room. Adding a wall stat required pushing the software around to still give a good temp curve with the stat being 5’ off the floor. My test in running one of the prototypes showed that they were successful making the change. The kit to do so however is kinda bodged up. It is what they came up with without totally redesigning the unit.
The issue for Rinnai on these is that they are 80% efficiency units. There are no rebates, etc available for anything below 90%. Given that they are 80% “net to the space” with no transmission losses like duct work etc, they do an excellent job. At this time Rinnai has apparently chosen to not invest In making them 90+%. While I was highly tuned into thing Rinnai for 29yrs I no longer am, so that last statement could have all ready changed. With the possible exception of being able to turn the unit on remotely which so many have wanted for so long the wall thermostat is a solution in search of a problem.

 

[Bigsmith]

I take your points, thanks. As I mentioned my interest in an external stat is to be able to program different time/temperature schedules for different days of the week. E.g. the space is almost never occupied on Mondays, so I'd like to have the furnace use the setback temperature all day Monday without needing to be fiddled with. I couldn't care less about the remote control aspect.

 

[Bigsmith]

OK I'm ready to get a Rinnai direct vent wall furnace for our Pastor's office. 220 square foot room with 10 foot ceiling, 15 feet of north facing exterior wall with about 10 square feet of windows. Average quality commercial construction from 2000 in Central Illinois. The existing forced air heat will keep the space at least 50 degrees at all times and the desired room temperature is 72.

Am I correct that the 8000 BTU model will warm up this room reasonably quickly in the morning and easily keep it comfortable? Or should I consider the 11,000 BTU for faster morning warmup? I'd like to be able to raise the space from 50 to 72 in 15-20 minutes if that is at all realistic.

Thanks for any help.

 

[fitter30]

By disconnecting the room sensor measure the resistance of the sensor at 50° and 90°. With a dpdt gold contact relay 5amp x 24vac a wifi stat would toggle the relay. 90° for no heat and 50° for heat. Could find a resistance chart for the sensor.

 

[Jackfre]

The EX08 will fire from 3-8k btu. The EX11 will fire from 5.5-11kbtu. Initially Rinnai did not have the 08 and found that the 11 was too large for th average bedroom sized space, meaning that the 5500 at 80% was a boatload of heat for those size spaces. I proposed a new small heater and Rinnai engineering were able to downfire the 11 to create the 08. Physically the same unit but the 08 has some vent extension limitations that do not apply to the 11. If it is a simple out the back vent then no issue but be clear on this. I would pick the 08 for your space. For straight pickup the 11 wins. For comfort in the space it is the 08.