Wiring a pole barn shop.

[Sevenjays]

Building a 36x40x12 high shop. Pole barn, so 6x6 wood posts with metal siding. 100amp service to be done to NEC 2017 code and inspected. Interior with be exposed/unfinished.
I haven’t been able to speak with my inspector yet but I’m trying to figure out how to run the wiring inside for lighting and outlets. I’m trying to decide if I should run all pvc conduit and THHN wire or romex up high with conduit drops to the receptacles or what?
Run conduit and/or wire behind the posts and along the horizontal 2x6s?
If anyone has pictures of how they wired their pole barn I’d appreciate it.
Concrete floor coming next week!



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[ATerry]

Nice! I’m jealous of the headspace you’re going to have with the steel trusses! I’ve got a 40x50x12 foot print but the shop is 30x50x12 with an added 10’ awning. I framed out my walls even with the rough cut beams and just ran Romex between my insulation and beams. 4 gang outlets every 10’ on the long walls, and 1 on either side of my 16’ over head. The lights I ran romex from the breaker, up one of the trusses and just went down the center and put two 4’ LEDs on either side of center every other truss.

 

[nadogail]

Non Metallic cable, colloquially known as Romex, must be protected from physical damage.
In some areas, to the best of my belief, it is not permitted in Commercial Buildings.

Please check with your inspector to be sure.

 

[7635tools]

It really depends on how the barn will be used. If it’s going to be a shop, then I would run emt. It’s a much better installation and leaves you with options down the road.


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[Sevenjays]

Thanks for the responses. I'll be working on cars, doing woodworking, and anything else I can dream up to fix, create, or maybe even destroy! So I'm thinking conduit below the trusses as a minimum.

Pros and cons of EMT vs PVC?

I have bent EMT but it's been awhile. I've also heated and formed PVC, which can get interesting. I do like the idea of keeping my options open as I really don't know how things might progress and how I'll really want to have things laid out.

 

[Sevenjays]

Spoke to my inspector. He won’t pass using the emt in place of a ground wire. Not a big deal. I can run a ground. Also said 60 amp is all I can add to my main panel based on the existing load. I think that will be more than sufficient. He was fine with me running the 2-2-4-6 AL feeder. If I upgrade my main panel I could go up on the shop service as well without pulling a new feeder run.
My plan is to run a double pole GFCI 20 amp breaker for 2 circuits sharing the neutral wire. Do that on both sides of the shop for a total of 4 circuits. Then a 15 amp lighting circuit. I’ll add a 30 amp RV outlet at some point, 240 welder and compressor circuits as well.


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[Bert_]

Spoke to my inspector. He won’t pass using the emt in place of a ground wire. Not a big deal. I can run a ground. Also said 60 amp is all I can add to my main panel based on the existing load. I think that will be more than sufficient. He was fine with me running the 2-2-4-6 AL feeder. If I upgrade my main panel I could go up on the shop service as well without pulling a new feeder run.
My plan is to run a double pole GFCI 20 amp breaker for 2 circuits sharing the neutral wire. Do that on both sides of the shop for a total of 4 circuits. Then a 15 amp lighting circuit. I’ll add a 30 amp RV outlet at some point, 240 welder and compressor circuits as well.


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You could add a sub as big as the service if you want. No code against it. Your total load would need to be no more than the service size obviously.

Conduit ground is perfectly acceptable by code. Unless there is a local amendment the inspector does not get to make up his own rules.

GFCI receptacles are much more cost effective than GFCI breakers.

 

[liliysdad]

I am currently in the same situation, on a smaller scale. Luckily, I don't have any inspections to worry about.

My plan is to run Romex up top, and into EMT for the drops. I only have a 10ft ceiling, so my drops will be ~5FT or so. In all reality, I could run romex straight to the box and never have an issue.

 

[Jakemedic]

Used 12 gauge nm-b ran before insulation and inside vapor barrier. Put new work boxes in and cut around my boxes. Woodworking shop, didn’t want exposed conduit.

 

[Sevenjays]

You could add a sub as big as the service if you want. No code against it. Your total load would need to be no more than the service size obviously.

Conduit ground is perfectly acceptable by code. Unless there is a local amendment the inspector does not get to make up his own rules.

GFCI receptacles are much more cost effective than GFCI breakers.

Cutler Hammer GFTCB220 20 Amp 2 Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker Plug-In 12...oes Not Fit In A Cutler Hammer Ch Series Panel) Replaces The GFCB220 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017DH0IFE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This is what I’m using for the GFCI breakers. I do agree GFCI receptacles are about half the price but I prefer just going to the panel to reset instead of locating the tripped receptacle.
I’ll also agree with the inspector can’t make up his own code, but find it easier on some of the smash things to stay on his good side rather than fight it. His point of a conduit connection getting loose over time causing issues is a good one so I don’t mind adding the ground wire.
Inspector has no problem with me running a larger sub panel and I’m sure if I did a full load calc and was able to prove my shop load won’t exceed the main panel load he would approve it.
Thanks for the input.


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[liliysdad]

Thank God I live in a place where I don't have to ask permission to wire my shop the way I want. Its not the inspector's business to pass or fail based on his feelings...only to verify whether or not the installation meets established code.

 

[coljar]

My 30x40 is wired in EMT with MC where necessary. It didn't need to be inspected at all, but I have a good electrician friend that I consulted with to make it to commercial standards for my own satisfaction.

 

[Boatman62]

36' x 60' pole barn shop here. 200amp service. Code was anything below 8' not in a wall needed to be in conduit.

 

[CLB]

I ran all my power for receptacles and the feed for the switches in the slab. This was quicker and easier for me rather than having to climb ladders or onto a lift and running it overhead.

 

[liliysdad]

That sure complicates things when it comes time to add or move stuff.

 

[Bert_]

That sure complicates things when it comes time to add or move stuff.

It makes it very easy to move stuff. You have conduit going all over so all you have to do is pull some wire.

 

[liliysdad]

It makes it very easy to move stuff. You have conduit going all over so all you have to do is pull some wire.

I would much rather move overhead romex than deal with pulling wire...but I will readily admit that looks to be a clean installation for sure.

 

[Sevenjays]

I ran all my power for receptacles and the feed for the switches in the slab. This was quicker and easier for me rather than having to climb ladders or onto a lift and running it overhead.

That’s a really clean install. Great job!


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[BB Sig]

Looks nice. I can see doing that where you know doors and switches are going to be. I'm having balance issues and want to minimize my ladder time. I will incorporate this into my upcoming transformation of a horse barn!

Barry
North Florida

 

[mike93lx]

I would much rather move overhead romex than deal with pulling wire...but I will readily admit that looks to be a clean installation for sure.

Nothing in that install precludes adding romex at any time

 

[liliysdad]

Nothing in that install precludes adding romex at any time

That is true....

 

[MrSurly]

My apology up front for getting off topic; I'm very curious about the framing of your building. I'm troubled, really, by the total lack of a perimeter 'header' at wall height to add structural stiffness to the building. I'm accustomed to builds that use wood trusses (and more trusses) of course and maybe the ladder truss system doesn't require it? Is the build from a kit or some type of package, or maybe it's common practice with these trusses? Any idea if it's snow-load or wind rated?
Was your inspector required to approve the design, etc?
Apologies, again, for the questions but that looks really light.

Back to the electrical, my 30x40 I ran everything in 3/4 emt overhead with a couple of incidental drops of MC to a switch here or there. My overhead lighting is 'linkable' four-foot LED fixtures with switched receptacles via emt.

 

[mustangcrazy77]

I ran MC cable for all lights to my main light switch. I ran PVC drops from one side of the barn to the other before concrete. I then ran EMT for all outlets. My inspector was fine with the exposed MC as long as it wasn't in an area where it could get pinched. All MC and EMT has a dedicated ground, but they are also grounded back to the main panel.

 

[mustangcrazy77]

My apology up front for getting off topic; I'm very curious about the framing of your building. I'm troubled, really, by the total lack of a perimeter 'header' at wall height to add structural stiffness to the building. I'm accustomed to builds that use wood trusses (and more trusses) of course and maybe the ladder truss system doesn't require it? Is the build from a kit or some type of package, or maybe it's common practice with these trusses? Any idea if it's snow-load or wind rated?
Was your inspector required to approve the design, etc?
Apologies, again, for the questions but that looks really light.

Headers are only required when you run your roof purlins in the weak direction. His purlins are 2x6 ran on end which allows for 10-12 foot post spans, depending on load requirements. These designs still meet wind and deflection requirements and are more economical as they don't require a boatload of trusses. I personally chose to go with commercial style girts as my barn is a bit exposed and I wanted to limit wall deflection.

 

[mike93lx]

Simple and very clean, great job

 

[Sevenjays]

Inspector was fine with the building. I bought it from a local pole barn company and they built it. Concrete is done now!



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[Sevenjays]

I might copy your light hanger idea mustangcrazy77. Hope you don’t mind.


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[mustangcrazy77]

I might copy your light hanger idea mustangcrazy77. Hope you don’t mind.


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That's why I posted it! We have the same trusses, so I figured you'd be looking for lighting and wire routing solutions. All of the MC wiring was ran along the purlins using steel screw in clamps and then to the trusses where it is simply resting on the horizontal member and zip tied.

Building looks great...almost a mirror on the inside of mine.

 

[75gmck25]

I have one suggestion that can make your inspection much easier.

For the initial electrical inspection, make it very simple and only install a few items.
- the feed wire from the main panel (MHF, etc.) and your 100 amp sub-panel
- one light switch by the man door with a light fixture mounted up high on the same wall.
- a 20 amp convenience receptacle with GFCI on the same board as the sub-panel. You might also have to install one GFCI receptacle for each garage bay, but I'm not sure how that works with a larger building.
Obviously, all these items need to be installed properly and code compliant.

Once these items are done, call for inspection and get it approved. If they have questions about the minimal installation you can just tell the inspector you don't want to spend money to expand the electrical any further right now. Once this electrical permit is approved there is no reason for the inspector to enter your building again unless you submit another permit. You can then take all the time you want to finish your electrical.

Bruce

 

[IRQVET]

What was the cost of this project, turned out fantastic!

 

[blastan21]

I ran all my power for receptacles and the feed for the switches in the slab. This was quicker and easier for me rather than having to climb ladders or onto a lift and running it overhead.

I know this is old post but this idea is gold. Thank you.