Wolverine floor with Organiprep etching

[shocksystems]

Hello all. I started my long delayed project epoxy coating my floor today. I purchased the following Wolverine products from Fred at Alpha Garage:

OrganiPrep 921

LiquaTile-1184-BL1A - Carolina Blue

BondTite- 1101

SuperGrip 850 .5lb

Spiked Shoes

DecoFlakes - 130-063 Slate Gray

DecoFlakes - 130-063 Navy Blue

I made a trip to Home Depot and Lowes this morning to get everything I needed. Buckets, mixers, 18" rollers and roller frame, brushes, and more.

Like many others on this board I am addicted to tools. So when I discovered I needed a pressure washer to remove the Organiprep etch product properly, I decided to shop for a pressure washer. I hate spending money renting tools when it would be such a big down-payment on a new tool. Home Depot's units were not made in the USA and were pricey. So I went to Lowes and found just what I wanted. I got a Troybuilt with a shiny Briggs & Stratton motor.

The second focus of the day was to get everything out of the garage. With my son's help we got everything out. I had started this earlier in the week but had to finish today. Fortunately I have been planning for finishing the floor since I put up the garage, so it was not as difficult as it would have been otherwise. Also the concrete was not stained badly.

Here is my garage partially empty

Once I had everything out I swept the floor as vigorously as possible. Next I started the etch. I was very skeptical that the Organiprep was doing enough. I left it on for a long time and re-rolled the floor to agitate it. I realized I had more Organiprep left so I poured everything out on the floor, rolled it out, and let it sit around 15 - 20 minutes. Then I agitated it with a stiff brush and let it sit for another 15 minutes.

A couple of pics of the floor with the etch solution covering it.

Finally I got to use my new toy, the power washer. Adult help showed up. My friend Dave and I took turns power washing the floor while the other person squeegied it out the door.

It took quite a while but the floor looks very different now that spots are dry. The concrete looks whiter and has a rough texture. I guess it worked!

Tomorrow will be a big day. I should have help most of the day. I am expecting to get the primer coat and the epoxy and the chips down. I need to re-read the directions tonight. I will try and post again tomorrow.

 

[04 Navi]

Good luck.

 

[Mlynch]

Shocksystems... if you dont mind sharing publicly. What is your total material/floor project cost? assuming tools rollers whatever?

 

[shocksystems]

Navi: Thanks! I need the luck.

Matt:

Gulp. The total cost looks like it will be around $2,000. The Organiprep (instead of muriatic acid) was particularly expensive at $300 for 5 gallons. I am covering 750SFT.

I struggled with the decision to spend this much money, when I could have done absolutely nothing to the floor (zero versus $2,000). But I look at this as one of those things where if I invest the money now and do it correctly it will last a very very long time. If I did not have the money I probably would have chosen a cheaper epoxy covering, taking the risk that it held up OK. With the cheaper coverings it seems like half of the people have great experiences to report and half do not.

It is raining this morning so I need to wait until the rain stops before proceeding today. No where to stage materials in the rain, frustrating.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[Jaguar Fan]

Navi: Thanks! I need the luck.

Matt:

Gulp. The total cost looks like it will be around $2,000. The Organiprep (instead of muriatic acid) was particularly expensive at $300 for 5 gallons. I am covering 750SFT.

I struggled with the decision to spend this much money, when I could have done absolutely nothing to the floor (zero versus $2,000). But I look at this as one of those things where if I invest the money now and do it correctly it will last a very very long time. If I did not have the money I probably would have chosen a cheaper epoxy covering, taking the risk that it held up OK. With the cheaper coverings it seems like half of the people have great experiences to report and half do not.

It is raining this morning so I need to wait until the rain stops before proceeding today. No where to stage materials in the rain, frustrating.

Cheers!

Jim

Thanks for sharing.

Question: in the "after etching" photo, it looks as if the white color of the concrete might actually be some powdery residue. Of course, photos aren't as good as seeing it live. You might try taking a wire brush to the floor and see if it comes up. If not, everything is fine. But if it does come up, I think you might need to power wash again.

Good luck!

 

[DynoDave]

Thanks for posting this shocksystems. I look forward to following along.

 

[shocksystems]

So I had to wait to start today until the rain stopped. The weather forecast indicated rain in the morning. The rain stopped and a friend and I set things up and started by mixing 1 quart of hardener with 2 quarts of the Bondtite resin. It rolled and brushed on easy. We mixed another batch with the same quantities, it continued to roll on well. Given the temps and the humidity we had no trouble with things hardening prematurely. So we then mixed the remaining amounts in the kit all at once. We got everything rolled out. It did not take long once we started, probably around 1.5 hours. We finished at 12:30PM.

Here are some shots of the floor with the product just applied.

It is taking it a long time to harden. The directions say to expect 3 - 6 hours. Not surprising that it would take longer given that the temperatures are only in the high 50s and humidity is in the high seventies. I made sure the humidity was not beyond the limit of 80 (but it was close). I kept expecting the temperature to rise and humidity to drop as the clouds burned off, but that hasn't happened much yet.

This puts me a bit behind schedule as I was hoping to get the Liquatile and chips on today. If the Bondtite hardens in time I will still do so tonight, but it might not be ready until morning. This schedule is going to be tough if I have to do the Liquatile tomorrow because I do not have Tuesday off and the top coat of Bondtite cannot be applied until 12 - 24 hours after the Liquatile is applied.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[larry4406]

$2000 for 750 square feet is $2.67/sf. Is this a typical price for Wolverine coatings?

 

[Mlynch]

Well i can say as a professional that does these floors for a living that that is unussually high... even for an end user. I would expect as a contractor my material would cost less as i buy in bulk and on a regular basis. Lets put it this way; If i doubled what i pay for material i would still come out less than what shocksystems got nailed for. Only you guys can decide if the support is worth that kind of price!!

That being said i have some insight on why it cost shocksystem so much... It apears he is using the same product for a topcoat as his primer. Ussually a product that is formulated to be A: "water clear" and B: Uv stable is going to cost signifigantly more than a product that doesn't need these qualities... guess what using a top coat as a primer makes no sense... It is either a poor top coat or a rediculously expensive primer. This brings me to my next thought... why not just pigment this bondtite product for the first coat and broadcast into this initially. This makes more financial sense then building up 12 gal of product over 750 square ft over 3 or 4 step process...

So 12 gal over 750sqft comes to a incredible 36 mils give or take. (assuming 100 percent solids and the adition of the fleck broadcast) I have done commercial/industrial floors that didnt even call for that kind of dft (dry film thickness)!! This is way overkill for a residential or shop environment.

So if you combine the fact he used an incredibly expensive prep solution... he was sold too much product because he is doing the floor in an inefficient way (not bad just inefficient)... and the product is a bit pricey for my taste you get the 2.67 a sqft. The crazy part is that for just a few more dollars he could have had a proffesional come in and do the floor and washed his hands of the headache and 3 days of labor... also most professionals have progressed from epoxy systems to newer technology that in a lot of ways is seen as better (i am sure some would debate this but it is what it is) for example the polyureas and methyl methacrylate's.

I hope this is seen as an educational post for everyone and not an attack on wolverine coatings, their distributor, or shocksystems... thats what this board is about education. If they don't address this then they are efffectivly pricing themselves out of the market because people wont bother with doing it themselves if it costs close to what a pro would do it for or they will go elsewhere. On second thought i really dont have a problem with that...

 

[shocksystems]

I woke up this morning and the Bondtite primer was dry. I waited a couple of hours hoping the humidity would drop. It was still high seventies. My father showed up and we got to work.

We mixed and rolled the epoxy. It covered well, but we realized that we were not using "enough". After covering about 3/4 of the floor there was way more than 1/4 of the product left. So we mixed more, I put the spiked shoes on and rolled over the areas we already covered with more epoxy. As I finished the second coat we threw paint chips. I liked how small and fine the paint chips were. It was hard to get a consistent coat though.

The most frustrating part of the whole activity was the spiked shoes. They kept loosening up and my father noticed that the straps were dragging at times on the epoxy. If I dragged my shoe side to side the spikes would leave a scratch, I tried to be careful about lifting and placing my shoes down.

I only put about 1/2 of the pain chips down. I wanted enough to cover the floor with a heavy coat, but I ended up covering it less than heavy I would say.

Now I need to wait for the epoxy to dry and then I will sweep off the excess paint chips and break off any paint chips that are not firmly embedded in the epoxy. Given the time it took for the Bondtite primer to dry, I will probably not be able to do this until tomorrow morning. I am going to have to take some more time off from work to do this and roll on the top coat of Bondtite.

The quality of the pictures are bad because my digital camera is not working. I had to use my cell phone. If I can borrow a good camera I will take some better pictures.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[shocksystems]

This morning I went out and checked and the epoxy was dry. I waited a couple of hours for the humidity to drop and the temperature to rise. Then I swept the floor of excess paint chips, after agitating what I could free with a stiff bristle brush. I also blew the floor off with a hand-held leaf blower.

Next I mixed the Bondtite Resin with the grip additive (sand) and the hardener. No help today because it is Tuesday and I expected to be done yesterday. I then used a paint brush around the edges and rolled the floor.

It was much harder to tell where I had covered with the clear coat now that I am covering the epoxy. It was very easy to tell when I was covering the bare concrete. Also the product did not seem to cover as much, I think it might have been the grip additive. It rolled on thicker than the primer coat did. I had enough product to do the whole floor though. I would have felt better though if I could have clearly identified what I rolled and what I did not. I hope I did not miss anything.

Now it is a waiting game. It looks good to me. I have a few minor issues and lessons learned I will post later to this thread (along with better quality pictures of the final product).

Here are some cell phone quality pictures of the floor:

Cheers!

Jim

 

[car99r]

Looking good. Please do share your do's and don'ts. I am doing mine this weekend and trying to do as much reading as possible.

 

[T1704]

Looking forward to seeing the final pictures...

 

[shocksystems]

Lessons learned:

When I embarked on this project there were a number of lessons learned that other people shared on this board, I really focused on those lessons learned and I think it helped my experience. These lessons learned included:

1. Mix in small batches, the epoxy hardens quick
2. Use an 18" roller, the epoxy hardens quick
3. 2 people make the job much more doable, the epoxy hardens quick
4. Do not over or under mix the epoxy. Bad things happen either way. (air bubbles or gooey mess)
5. Be careful to make sure you keep the mixing quantities straight
6. Use a good quality epoxy
7. Prepare the floor really really well or the whole job is a waste

Here are my own observations & lessons learned that I would like to share:

* Schedule: I was concerned about the product hardening too quickly that I never really considered what I would do if it took longer than I expected and what this would do to my schedule. What this did was crew all my plans up! It took 3 1/2 days instead of 3 days. I did not have help the 4th day and I had lots of spare time between coats. I had to take extra time off from work.

* Weather: I would have watched the weather more carefully. I did not realize how damp it would be. The humidity was very high on Sunday and Monday. This affected the schedule and one of my doors jambs leaked water in when we had a shower, before the epoxy had dried. A small spot (few inches) was affected.

* Overhead door: I had to keep the overhead door open the entire 3 days because I needed to cover the area under the lip of the door and let it dry. This meant that there was an opportunity for water, rain, animals, bugs to get in. I ended up covering the gap with plastic. I had to cut power to the overhead door as well because the safety eye would cause the door to open if anything went in front of it (then dust would come raining down)

* Cleanliness. Pretty clear that this is important to avoid getting stuff in your epoxy. Wow was this more difficult than I imagined for several reasons.
o I wish I had cleared dust and debris from any possible place in the garage, including places that do not seem so obvious. When I had to climb the stairs at one point it rained sawdust down on the primer. When I raised the overhead door it rained other debris on the floor.
o There is no clean area to stage the material. My garage is surrounded by gravel, dirt, pine needles and etc. I setup tarps outside on the ground but they only remain clean for so long. It was very difficult to keep from tracking this into the garage. We ended up taking off our shoes and working in our socks in the garage. But every time we need to mix more we had to put our shoes on. It was a big hassle.

* Clear coat: It was very difficult to see where I had rolled the final coat on or not. Like mowing your lawn when it is very short. Ultimately I missed some spots that I need to cover, just a few. It was worse because I had no assistant that final day. If someone else was there they could have helped me identify spots I missed.

* Spiked shoes: What can I say, it is an imperfect solution to a big problem. How do you spread paint chips over a floor with wet epoxy, without making lines in the epoxy. What I discovered was that if I moved the spiked shoes side to side instead of carefully lifting them up and down, they made lines in the epoxy. Also the straps were dangling and those were making marks as well. They are cheap and it was hard to keep them tight. When they loosen up it is hard to control them.

At the very end of the project, after applying the top coat, I put my shoes back on, walked to the back deck, took my shoes off and walked in the house to clean up and get something to drink. After about 5 minutes I looked down and realized I was wearing the socks I had been wearing when I spread the clear coat. Yup, you guessed it, I left footprints in Bondtite epoxy clear coat, on my hardwood floor in my kitchen area. I then had to get the MEK thinner, rag and crawl on my hands and knees to try to get all of the spots up. I recommend you avoid this. My wife was surprisingly understanding.

I still have not taken pictures with a good camera. I will do so as soon as I can.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[Mlynch]

I will be the first to say for never doing this before you have done a fine job... Is installing these floors the hardest thing in the world? No way. But it takes 4 or 5 jobs minimum before you even get decent at it. There is a pretty drastic learning curve and like a house of cards little things can bring the whole job to a crashing end!

I am curious as to what alpha garage and wolverine had to say about my post... I never saw any kind of response to the very important issue of the exorbidant cost.

 

[DynoDave]

I am curious as to what alpha garage and wolverine had to say about my post... I never saw any kind of response to the very important issue of the exorbidant cost.

What would you have them say? Their product costs more than some others. The Organiprep costs more too. Shocksystems shopped around, compared products and prices, and chose this one. Apparently he felt it was the best value.

 

[Mlynch]

Dynodave,

I think i pointed out some pretty odd things about their system... for sure the fact that they are selling a 70-90(estimate) dollar a gallon product for a primer! they also, in my opinion, probably sold him way too much product for his amount of square footage. I wont even start about the organiprep... There just isn't a justifiable reason for that amount of cost for a DIY guy when a professional installer would do the entire job for almost what he paid just for material.

This is not meant to dump on shocksystems thread but rather to help others in the future so they dont get nailed for 2 grand in products when that is really unnecesary.

So i posed some issues with their system and maybe they can pose some fixes... or maybe they can justify their reasoning... or maybe they could explain why their products justify the exorbidant cost. It just seems to me that by not replying they are acknowledging that there were indeed issues. Honestly, I think i might actually help them to be more competitive by pointing out these issues. Maybe it never occured to them that having a expensive top coat product really isnt an efficient primer...

Also i would like to point out I have no vested interest in giving advice on here other than just helping out and I enjoy being a part of this community as well as sharing my experience... I think we can all agree that all of my posts have been to the benefit of the DIYselfer and not in lining my or any suppliers pockets. I just tell it like i see it and i will continue to. OK?

 

[SUPERFORD]

Waiting for a response...

I've been considering Wolverine coatings based on the knowledgeable and helpful posts presented here by Eric at wolverine.

I have no problem paying more for a premium product that lasts longer or performs better, or maybe even simply looks better.

however, i've been researching here for days trying to justify spending $3000 (my estimate, not theirs), for products alone for a DIY job.. when I could obtain what is probably an equal (for my purposes) product from any number of well known paint/coatings suppliers locally for less than $1000.

I'm not attacking Wolverine Coatings or their DIY distributor Alpha Garage, I'm just looking for more info as to WHY wolverine coatings seem to cost 3 or more times as much as the competition from Sherwin Williams or other reputable suppliers.

I'm aware that there are lots of differences in products such as water based, solvent based, 100% solid, etc. so the pricing may not be an apples to apples comparison. what I want to know is how I will be able to see that I've purchased the "better" product once it's on my floor? I don't want to have to frame my sales reciept as my only indication that my product is better.

I don't need a complicated lesson in chemistry, I just want to know if and how the product's REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE is superior enough to justify the seemingly dramatic price premium.

does it resist uv yellowing better?
does it resist chipping or "drop" or impact damage better?
does it bond to the concrete better?
does it resist peeling and bubbling better?
does it resist harsh chemicals better?
does it self level or cover imperfections better?
does it do someting else better that I've missed?

I'm just about ready to coat my floor, I just cant pull the trigger on $3000 in product alone without knowing WHY. again, I don't mind spending extra money if it's going to pay off in the long run. I just need to be able to justify it to myself.

-chris

P.S. I apologize if this is construed as hijacking the thread. That was not my intention, I'm interesting in purchasing the same products. Shocksystems, your floor looks great. you hard work was worth it. thanks for sharing your experience. I hope it holds up for a long time. now get us some clear pics, and please do something with those bare plywood walls already!

 

[Mlynch]

Superford there is a very simple solution for you...

1. stick to 100 percent solids products

2. just check the spec sheet on the product and you will get all kinds of usefull data as far as tensile strength, compresive strength, elongation, abrasion resistance, and stain tests. (keep in mind that epoxies are not uv stable no matter what however the technology has gotten a lot better with the UV resistant epoxies... if you want true uv stable coating you have to move to a polyurethane or a polyurea/polyaspartic)

3. compare products qualities and their respectiveprices and make an educated decision...

a standard 100 percent solids epoxy will be anywhere from 30-65 dollars a gallon. There are ussually premiums for UV stability and water clear formulations (50-85 a gallon). These are rough estimates...

I have heard good things about devoe coatings from the ICI line of paint stores... i dunno how they are price wise but they are ussually available locally. Otherwise there are loads of online sources for decent products.

 

[UnSub45]

Mlynch, I am wondering what you would charge for a 500 sq ft floor. I actually would not have minded paying a bit more to have a pro do my floor. Even double would have been fine, but I could not seem to find anyone to do it that cheap.

Before I did my 500 sq ft floor with the Wolverine system I called 3 contractors in my area. Each quoted in the $4000-$5000 range ($8-$10 sq ft). The material from Wolverine was a good amount under $2 a sq ft. I spent another few hundred in supplies and prep, putting me over $2 a sq ft. This was a big savings over calling a pro. In fact the pro's wanted $2 sq ft just to grind the floor for the prep. The lowest guy was $950 (I'll give you a single pass and it is what it is) the others were $1200 & $1300 to give me a floor that would be ready to coat.

 

[Mlynch]

4 dollars a sq ft is market price for the polyurea floors... In slow economic times you guys can have a little leeway. Franchises tend to charge a little more than the non franchised companies like myself... much of this is because they are forced to buy from their franchise and pay more material cost. Franchises are about 5 bucks a square foot.

not many pro companies still do all epoxy systems as it is old technology and there are better and faster ways to do it for the pro installers... however i have seen people doing the epoxy systems for 3 dollars a sqft... but for the dollar difference its not worth it.

As for the prep work a dollar a square foot is market price... again i would have had no qualms preparing 500 sqft for a charge of 500 dollars.

For a 500 sqft floor my initiall quote would have been $2000 but if i was desperate for the work or slow i would play with the number a little just to keep busy. How much play? Well that depends on all the variables of the job... how extensive is the prep? how far away? Can i knock it out in 1 day? Another thing to keep in mind is the higher the sq footage the better i will go on price because i can make it up in quantity. For example 1000 sq ft takes about the same amount of time as 500.

So for the 500-800 dollar difference you get a better material (polyaspartic) and you can wash your hands of all the labor. Alot of the time the pro systems are a single day with a much faster return to service where as the diy systems take several days. I would say that makes a tough sell for the DIY systems at those prices.

8 to 10 dollars a square foot is insane... i could do one or two jobs a month and live pretty comfortably at those prices. The profit would be almost 1000 percent... man i dont even think the oil companies could pull that off!

all of that being said where do you live? your market is most likely a little different but not 8-10 dollars different!

 

[car99r]

WOW! 8-10 dollars per square foot....

I got a couple local quotes for 780' sq floor so I can give you some real good prices for central Illionois for comparison.

The first company quoted me $1.00 to grind off the sealer and then $2.00 to epoxy. (However they could not do it for another 2 months)

The second company which has more of a reputation in these parts of being the better place quoted me $1.00 to grind and $2.85 to epoxy. (could start the following week)

I bought my supplies through originalcolorchips.com and instead of going through their website I called and spoke with them in person. THe guy saved me quite a bit of money off the site prices.

Enough solvent based basecoat and clearcoat, for 780' square, 10# chips for a medium to heavy broadcast, 2 pairs of spike shoes (pretty heavy duty from the others I have seen), 2-3 garage application kit(2 rollers, rags, tape, brushes, gloves, etc...) and two mixers...

Grand total including shipping $616.00

I thought that was pretty good...

 

[WolverineCoatings]

Hi All,

I haven't had an opportunity to check out Garage Journal since this post started. Holy Smokes! I don't have the time to go through the whole thing now because my family hasn't seen me much the past couple of weeks. We've been VERY busy. Thanks for the calls and PMs that have alerted me to this post. You guys are the best! (You'd be even better if you posted the thoughts you conveyed to me... lol)

Anyway, before you make decisions based on conjecture and misinformation do the math for yourself. Get with Fred and find out what the material costs are for YOUR floor the way YOU want it. I'll do my best to post some answers to some of the technical aspects (almost all of which have been addressed on these forums in the past) of this thread later on tonight. I've got a dinner that I have to cook for tonight... low country boil... yummm.... It tastes even better than BondTite... lol! So, I can't promise for tonight but I'll do my best.

Shock... Glad to hear everything went well. Maybe there is a reason that it didn't take you 5-6 floors to do a decent job... Maybe part of that was making the decision to use a high quality product... Oh, and maybe we'll give you a little credit too... lol...

I hope you all are having a great weekend. I've got to go play some hot wheels now!

 

[SUPERFORD]

EDIT: I've deleted my rather lengthy post and relocated to new thread as this one has gone significantly astray of shocksystem's original post topic on his wolverine floor experience.

again, sorry for jacking your thread shocksystem!

the new thread regarding epoxy vs. polyaspartic coatings can be found here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19320

 

[nissan_crawler]

4 dollars a sq ft is market price for the polyurea floors... In slow economic times you guys can have a little leeway. Franchises tend to charge a little more than the non franchised companies like myself... much of this is because they are forced to buy from their franchise and pay more material cost. Franchises are about 5 bucks a square foot.

not many pro companies still do all epoxy systems as it is old technology and there are better and faster ways to do it for the pro installers... however i have seen people doing the epoxy systems for 3 dollars a sqft... but for the dollar difference its not worth it.

As for the prep work a dollar a square foot is market price... again i would have had no qualms preparing 500 sqft for a charge of 500 dollars.

For a 500 sqft floor my initiall quote would have been $2000 but if i was desperate for the work or slow i would play with the number a little just to keep busy. How much play? Well that depends on all the variables of the job... how extensive is the prep? how far away? Can i knock it out in 1 day? Another thing to keep in mind is the higher the sq footage the better i will go on price because i can make it up in quantity. For example 1000 sq ft takes about the same amount of time as 500.

So for the 500-800 dollar difference you get a better material (polyaspartic) and you can wash your hands of all the labor. Alot of the time the pro systems are a single day with a much faster return to service where as the diy systems take several days. I would say that makes a tough sell for the DIY systems at those prices.

8 to 10 dollars a square foot is insane... i could do one or two jobs a month and live pretty comfortably at those prices. The profit would be almost 1000 percent... man i dont even think the oil companies could pull that off!

all of that being said where do you live? your market is most likely a little different but not 8-10 dollars different!

This makes no sense to me. You say you would quote $2000 to do it. You also say, 5-800 difference for a DIY system. Even going on the high side, that's still $1200. I did my 440 sq ft for under $200.

 

[Mlynch]

This makes no sense to me. You say you would quote $2000 to do it. You also say, 5-800 difference for a DIY system. Even going on the high side, that's still $1200. I did my 440 sq ft for under $200.

Nissan i was basing those number on shocksystems floor and what he ended up paying for wolverines materials/diy system($2000 or 2.67 a sq ft), not yours. I would have quoted his job out the door @ 2600-3000 because of the square footage. Obviously you bought your materials at a much more down to earth price but i can also say that for 200 dollars you did not do a job comparable to what i would install. It is apples and oranges. The flakes to do your floor alone would be 200 dollars plus... thats at my installer cost. I wont even get into the cost incurred from grinding plus the cost for polyurea and so on... so again obviously apples and oranges! Any other questions?

 

[Mlynch]

Maybe there is a reason that it didn't take you 5-6 floors to do a decent job... Maybe part of that was making the decision to use a high quality product...

We are still waiting patiently to hear a response... and to be fair when i said it takes 5 or 6 floors to really do a job right and get it down, well, it does! I was just letting Shocksystems know, as per his own comments, that little things like sliding around on spikes, figuring out mixing, contamination, chip coverage, even topcoat, and god knows how many other nuances perfect takes practice. These were all things HE mentioned!

You are misleading people telling them this is a cakewalk... if it was we wouldnt have this forum!

Also to be fair to you it doesnt matter how great the products are they dont install themselves even if you wanna tell everyone they do... it just takes experience. No one does it absolutely perfect their first time no one!

 

[WolverineCoatings]

Alright mlynch... You've had a nice time of bashing us, shocksystems, and alphagarage without any response.

The first thing is that I'm not the one misleading people... you are. I have NEVER said that this was a cakewalk and neither has Fred. What I will say is that our system is the most user friendly professional product that I have ever seen. And, that means that a DIYer will have much better odds of success. You've come on here spouting untruths and giving advice that is technically unsound. In addition, you couldn't possibly be any more inconsiderate of Shocksystems who has worked hard on his project. This thread is his opportunity to show off his hard work and you've turned it into a place to showcase your own company and attempt to build your own ego. I've never claimed to be the 'resident expert' here. And, I have enough accomplishments that I don't need to boost my ego at the expense of others.

I hate negativity and I want to appologize to you all for the need to defend ourselves here from unwarranted attack. However, this is not the place to do that. We should all respect ShockSystems and make a new thread for this.

Here is the link for the new thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=238349#post238349

 

[Mlynch]

If i have said any untruths please bring them to everyones attention also if i have given any unsound advice lets hear it... otehrwise we have not accomplished anything here. Furthermore you have not addressed anybodies concren with the 2.64 cent material cost you guys nailed shocksystem with. On the contrary, i am just appalled at what you guys or your supplier charged him, excessive comes to mind! I have never come directly out and attacked anyone at least not in my opinion i have raised issue with the cost of your product (which i never said wasn't a quality product) vs other quality easy to use products or professional installations for that matter... but i guess the gloves are off so to speak. I will continue this in the new thread

 

[Cal Concrete Restoration]

Jim,

Doesn't look like you got a very acceptable result from the system and procedures you used.

Your earlier photos of the acid washing and pressure washing of your garage floor demonstrated some classic problems. There were swirls in the photos where the pressure washer had only washed clean thin paths of the acid-emulsified concrete. You should have used a "turbo tip" on the pressure washer. It produces a cone shaped fan of water and allows you to easily clean the whole surface. If you don't get all the "white stuff" from the acid wash off it just hardens when it dries and defeats the purpose opening up the pores in the concrete so the coating materials will stick and have a uniform appearance.

I'm a professional installer of garage floor coatings in Southern California. Your photos showed that your garage had some concrete stem walls but that the rest of the walls were clad with partical board. In my area virtually all the garage walls are sheet rock with texture and paint. I can't pressure wash those garages because it would seriously stain the walls. I have to grunt it out and grind off the floors with a 7" diamond angle grinder and vacuum.

I also use a system that specifies putting down 55 lbs of decorative chips on a 2 car garage area. The effect is that the floor looks much richer than a ligher coat of chips, it hides minor imperfections in the floor and it is FAR easier to patch. (Had a homeowner who dropped an engine block on the job. Far more than normal wear and tear. I was able to repair the job back to its original look and not charge him all that much.)

Hope this helps you out.

Patrick

 

[Fuller]

Oh my God Shocksystems you're going to have to grind it all off!


Not really - just kidding. The floor looks great and it will look even better after you move back in.

I'm afraid you've been caught in a crossfire. Maybe we should have a "Professionals Forum" where all us guys who do this for a living can argue incessantly without upsetting the DYIers.

FWIW, I've been doing garage floors for about 5 years and by no means do I consider myself an expert. The only reason people pay me is because I stick to what I know how to do.

Even then I'm usually faking it!

So be proud that you did it your way and don't worry what it costs.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Nissan i was basing those number on shocksystems floor and what he ended up paying for wolverines materials/diy system($2000 or 2.67 a sq ft), not yours. I would have quoted his job out the door @ 2600-3000 because of the square footage. Obviously you bought your materials at a much more down to earth price but i can also say that for 200 dollars you did not do a job comparable to what i would install. It is apples and oranges. The flakes to do your floor alone would be 200 dollars plus... thats at my installer cost. I wont even get into the cost incurred from grinding plus the cost for polyurea and so on... so again obviously apples and oranges! Any other questions?

The fact it wasn't specified was pretty much my point. As for comparable job, maybe, maybe not. It's made it through 5 years of welding/torching/grinding unharmed. I can't ask for more. Does it look as nice as one with flakes? Hell no. I didn't grind it, either.


Note: My floor looks nothing like his, it's plain jane boring gray, in no means am I trying to compare the two, I would put his in my living room, it's gorgeous.

 

[Mlynch]

The fact it wasn't specified was pretty much my point. As for comparable job, maybe, maybe not. It's made it through 5 years of welding/torching/grinding unharmed. I can't ask for more. Does it look as nice as one with flakes? Hell no. I didn't grind it, either.


Note: My floor looks nothing like his, it's plain jane boring gray, in no means am I trying to compare the two, I would put his in my living room, it's gorgeous.

Point taken, I should have specified a comparable job with flakes and so on... I thought it was obvious but sometimes i get to typing and things don't come out as clear as in my head.

 

[FFPL]

Hey shocksystems, looks really nice; nice colour choice. I'd love to see some better photos. Sorry to see your thread being hijacked.