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X/32 " (i.e. 19/32 ", 21/32 ") socket set recommendations

YoshiMoshi3

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I'm looking for a socket set that contains X/32 of an inch sockets. I would prefer to buy a set instead of just a bunch of single sockets if possible. It's fine if there are other sockets within the set I don't need. But I'm currently missing the following sizes: 13/32, 17/32, 19/32, 21/32, 23/32, 25/32, 27/32, 29/32 and 31/32. Anyone can point me to a particular set that contains all (or most) of these sockets?
 
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Private Lugnutz

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^ If by "point" you mean to a commercial source, I don't know ANYTHING about modern/current imperial socket drive tools, but I'd be shocked if they were available.

If you're posting this down here because you're interested in vintage sources, you've asked in the right place, but you'll be VERY hard-pressed to find a 1/2-inch drive "set" that includes ALL those sizes after the 1930s. By WWII, not many mfgrs were routinely making the odder sizes (13/32", 23/32", 27/32"). You didn't cite it, but you may want to consider 11/32" which is equivalent to #8 Hex Screw (electrical). Hard to find, though.

A "standard" set (in a decent nut-turning kit or a carry box) would definitely include 19/32" and 25/32" sockets, because those sizes mated with U.S.S. standard 5/16" and 7/16" nuts and bolts, respectively, well into the 1950's, at least. Some larger sets (large carry box, mid- or top boxes) would include 21/32" and 29/32" which had Ford and Chrysler applications, respectively, into the 1940's. And maybe the 31/32" (U.S.S. 9/16" bolt/nut).

This (Plomb Tool Co, 1943, just for example) would be considered a fairly generous range in a large set...

1764115503743.png

This is a very similar Bonney set (from 1941)...

1764115706808.png

Craftsman (1941) (note: no 25/32")

1764115994264.png

I'm just trying to give you a quick coarse sense of what was available. As you can see, most of the odder sizes routinely found in sets in the 1920's and 1930's have been dropped.
 

Private Lugnutz

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The late 1930's, 1940-1942, and then late 1940's and 1950's sets would be chromed. Wartime not. I'm not sure about the prolificness of 32/nds into the 60's or later into the heart of the metric explosion, because it's well past my interest, but of course they'd be chromed. EDIT: Other later era collectors here will know better.
 
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YoshiMoshi3

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Hey thanks, it looks like a compelte set with all the sizes is pretty uncommon and may not even exist? I appreciate all the info!

13/32 - This appears to be common enough in modern day sets, but still uncomonn
17/32 - Proto, Williams
19/32 - Genius Tools, Koken
21/32 - Koken
23/32 - ?
25/32 - Koken
27/32 - ?
29/32 - Wright Tool
31/32 - Williams

23/32 and 27/32 appears to be rare. The only 23/32 I could find was on some reditt post
1764119861873.png
I can't find a single picture of a 27/32 socket.
Any idea why these two are so rare, and who made them?

Also I take it, that some of these /32 sockets don't exist in a 6 point design, and only 12 point?
 

Private Lugnutz

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For brevity, skimming over all kinds of details, what is at work here is the confluence of two different trends. In the US, the boltage fastening industry, including the automotive sector, was moving from U.S.S., A.L.A.M., Am. Std. and the newly emerging S.A.E., to standardizing around S.A.E., from the turn of the century to WWII. At the same time, the hand tools industry was moving from fixed (forged, welded, or press-fit) socket wrenches to detachable socket wrenches, and within the detachable milieu, from pressed steel or malleable iron to cold forged and machined, hot forged and cold broached, and eventually, hot forged and hot broached.

Mossberg and similar socket sets went from 15/32" to 1-9/32" - without missing a /32nd! But they are crudely sized for tolerance in a wide range of low quality hardware, made of pressed-steel, in the 1903-1919 era, and will not really suit any of your practical modern needs.

Auto Cle 1.1.jpeg

In the 20's and 30's, the boltage and tools got honed down with standards and better compositions and construction. And when S.A.E. became the go to, many of the quirky sizes had dropped out.

Some examples so you can visualize the kinds of tools we're talking about when some of these /32nds sizes were still commonly available.

1764123623753.png
1764123679734.png

Packer Auto "RAY" 19/32, 21/32, 23/32, 25/32, and 31/32.

1764123716359.png

1764123764613.png

Pre-Craftsman Hinsdale-made Sears, Roebuck & Co 11/32, 17/32, 21/32, 25/32, and 31/32.

1764123789888.png

These New Britain are fairly modern looking hot-forged and broached from the 1930's, 19/32, 21/32, 25/32, and 31/32.

1764123820770.png
 
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Cruzan80

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Lugz, he already posted the same question earlier in the General Tools section, along with asking about 6-pt Whitworth sockets. Seems like it is more of a "What if I need" kind of question/acquisition.

 

retDAC

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FWIW, the following swap:

15mm & 19/32
18mm & 23/32
25/32 & 20mm
23mm & 29/32
31/32 & 25mm

First size listed is smaller of the two.
 

four.cycle

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I cannot think of any contemporary manufacturer who is going to be making all of those sizes. Why would they? There's no market for it.
I think Craftsman and maybe Thorsen might be your best choices if you're looking to build a set containing most of those sizes - you should be able to find most of those sizes in either of those two brands in the second-hand market.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Lugz, he already posted the same question earlier in the General Tools section, along with asking about 6-pt Whitworth sockets.
Thanks for the tip and link, Cruzer. Because the content is usually more current/modern, I don't routinely scan the General Tools discussion forum for new threads.

I just read it.

Based on his comment in that post about 'not wanting to pay collector prices', it looks like @YoshiMoshi3, to his credit, was already aware that the sizes were more typical in bygone eras, and he was wise to ask down here despite the collectible sticker shock awareness.

I was surprised to see someone up there suggest that Wright and Proto "have" 19/32, 21/32, 25/32, 29/32, and 31/32. Perhaps they meant "had", meaning vintage production, not current production.

If only for my own edification, I checked the catalogs on IA/ITCL.

Here is a 1969 Proto cat cut. Still has the 19/, 21/, 25/, 29/, and 31/.

1764163164344.png

Here is a Proto 1982 cat cut. All the 32nds are gone. (Maybe I looked in the wrong place?)

1764163119922.png

Having said all that, I hope my little evolutionary treatise on the entire industry - with random examples from my collection representative of that evolution, as well as those additionally supplied by others (e.g., Don's Indestro set), helped establish that not even in the heyday of the Roaring 20s will you find a set with ALL those 32nds sizes, and even though you can find a few with MANY or even MOST, the sockets will be heavy in profile and primitive by modern standards.

Having said that, as you alluded to here...
Seems like it is more of a "What if I need" kind of question/acquisition.
...and in some degree of disagreement with @mike93lx 's sentiment (he's right that it is a miniscule segment of even the ********* mechanics community)...

I do see the merit in wanting to have them for "just in case" scenarios, as they say.

As you know, many of us down here in Vintageland don't collect antique and vintage tools due to a direct and immediate need or use. Mostly it's for admiration, and their historical value as artifacts of the golden era of automobiles and wrenching, the thrill of the hunt, and the full-circle novelty. But some of us do use some of them some of the time, even the obsolete sizes did have an application at one time, and it's not always out of the question one might run into it, especially if one is also dabbling in antique and vintage automobiles, machinery, equipment, and radios, etc.

I certainly don't keep my collectibles in my truck kit. I don't even keep them in the garage stack. But I do need two hands to count the times I have run down the Bilco steps into the Lugzsonian to fetch one because it was either the only or the best tool for the job.

And I am going to go through my orphans and extras and partial sets to see if I can string a "set" together for him. :)
 
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leg17

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I'm looking for a socket set that contains X/32 of an inch sockets. I would prefer to buy a set instead of just a bunch of single sockets if possible. It's fine if there are other sockets within the set I don't need. But I'm currently missing the following sizes: 13/32, 17/32, 19/32, 21/32, 23/32, 25/32, 27/32, 29/32 and 31/32. Anyone can point me to a particular set that contains all (or most) of these sockets?

Generally speaking, most of these */32 have become obsolete.

31/32" is the old U.S.S. standard for 9/16" nut. (old U.S.S. 9/16” bolt/cap screw is 1/2”)
25/32" is the old U.S.S. standard for 7/16" nut. (old U.S.S. 7/16” bolt/cap screw is 5/8”)
21/32” is for Model A Ford rod bolts.
19/32" is the old U.S.S. standard for 5/16" nut. (old U.S.S. 5/16” bolt/cap screw is 13/16”)
13/32” is the old U.S.S. standard for 3/16” bolt/nut
11/32" is the old standard for #8 hex screw. Still common in electrical work.

Generally speaking, most tool makers offer tools with specific application for users, rather than complete sets for collectors.

These sizes have no users market today and not enough margin to cater to a collectors market.

But welcome here! You might enjoy getting familiar with the vintage tools from a century ago and set your sights on a maker that could offer most of what you are looking for.
CAUTION: It can become an addiction, obsession, passion, hobby.
 

d42jeep

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Thanks for the tip and link, Cruzer. Because the content is usually more current/modern, I don't routinely scan the General Tools discussion forum for new threads.

I just read it.

Based on his comment in that post about 'not wanting to pay collector prices', it looks like @YoshiMoshi3, to his credit, was already aware that the sizes were more typical in bygone eras, and he was wise to ask down here despite the collectible sticker shock awareness.

I was surprised to see someone up there suggest that Wright and Proto "have" 19/32, 21/32, 25/32, 29/32, and 31/32. Perhaps they meant "had", meaning vintage production, not current production.

If only for my own edification, I checked the catalogs on IA/ITCL.

Here is a 1969 Proto cat cut. Still has the 19/, 21/, 25/, 29/, and 31/.

1764163164344.png

Here is a Proto 1982 cat cut. All the 32nds are gone. (Maybe I looked in the wrong place?)

1764163119922.png

Having said all that, I hope my little evolutionary treatise on the entire industry - with random examples from my collection representative of that evolution, as well as those additionally supplied by others (e.g., Don's Indestro set), helped establish that not even in the heyday of the Roaring 20s will you find a set with ALL those 32nds sizes, and even though you can find a few with MANY or even MOST, the sockets will be heavy in profile and primitive by modern standards.

Having said that, as you alluded to here...

...and in some degree of disagreement with @mike93lx 's sentiment (he's right that it is a miniscule segment of even the ********* mechanics community)...

I do see the merit in wanting to have them for "just in case" scenarios, as they say.

As you know, many of us down here in Vintageland don't collect antique and vintage tools due to a direct and immediate need or use. Mostly it's for admiration, and their historical value as artifacts of the golden era of automobiles and wrenching, the thrill of the hunt, and the full-circle novelty. But some of us do use some of them some of the time, even the obsolete sizes did have an application at one time, and it's not always out of the question one might run into it, especially if one is also dabbling in antique and vintage automobiles, machinery, equipment, and radios, etc.

I certainly don't keep my collectibles in my truck kit. I don't even keep them in the garage stack. But I do need two hands to count the times I have run down the Bilco steps into the Lugzsonian to fetch one because it was either the only or the best tool for the job.

And I am going to go through my orphans and extras and partial sets to see if I can string a "set" together for him. :)
I could pick quite a few of them out of my Indestro spares but I’m not sure why I would without a really good reason. IMG_5966.jpeg
-Don
 

Private Lugnutz

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I could pick quite a few of them out of my Indestro spares but I’m not sure why I would without a really good reason.
If that's in reply to this part of my post...
I am going to go through my orphans and extras and partial sets to see if I can string a "set" together for him.
...I guess my answer would be for the challenge and fun of it and to help the guy out in what I think is an interesting quest and one that happens to tug at the heartstrings of my deep and extensive Roaring 20's and 30's addiction, obsession, passion, hobby infatuation! :)

Not only to see if I can put a string together from the various orphans/extras stashes, but to discover which brands and styles and ages it ends up being.

Extending my reply to these frequent colleagues...
...you should be able to find most of those sizes in either of those two brands in the second-hand market.
...set your sights on a maker that could offer most of what you are looking for.
...to test my self-educated postulation hunch, that it will need to be a mix of sockets across compositions, styles, and decades. I won't argue with "most," but I am feeling like it might only be "many" from any one or two brands, and, closer to my point, if pressed-steel is out of the question, and as modern as possible is the goal, I think it will require something like this...

1920's/1930's Machined or Hot-Forged/Cold-Broached
13/32
17/32
23/32
27/32

1940's (or Later) Hot-Forged/Hot-Broached
19/32
21/32
25/32
29/32
31/32

He may very well do much better on the latter category with eBay or someone else for 1960's-1970's production - because I definitely DO NOT have those.
 

Ayrhead

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I did a quick search online and found this set on Amazon . I’m not sure if it has every 6 point 32” increment, but it might be what he’s looking for…
 

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four.cycle

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...to test my self-educated postulation hunch, that it will need to be a mix of sockets across compositions, styles, and decades. I won't argue with "most," but I am feeling like it might only be "many" from any one or two brands, and, closer to my point, if pressed-steel is out of the question, and as modern as possible is the goal, I think it will require something like this...
^ exactly.
He's not going ot find all those /32's sizes in one brand. It's going to have to be some sort of a mix.
I had a Thorsen 1/2" drive "set" that I cobbled together that had a mess of /32's in it but I think I sold it.
 

Cruzan80

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I do see the merit in wanting to have them for "just in case" scenarios, as they say.
I guess the issue for me would be the trust I would have in a cold-broach socket, compared to modern engineering. Not that I don't also have some of these sets, but I don't plan on using them over their more modern equivalents (by modern, I mean 50's and newer...)

I could probably look around too and see what I could put together. The 6pt part is going to make it more like early 20's, at best.

Maybe one of the master sets of pressed steel had the /32's? That would be more likely than a full Indestro set...
 
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YoshiMoshi3

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Yea I posted over there, and found that going into vintage tools would likely be required. I think some of the vintage snap on stuff is highly collectable and probably "collector prices" is all.

Any idea what the application was for:
23/32 "
27/32 "

It's interesting, seems like the conclusion is early 1900s Mossberg may be the only sets that had the competed X/32 " set.

Anyone know the tolerances on X/32 " sockets from the vintage era are? Are they plus or minus 1/32 "?
Meaning for example can a 19/32 " vintage socket have the same across the flats dimensions as a modern day 9/16 " or 5/8 ".

I think some of these X/32 " sockets are going to be vintage only and likely will be 12 point. Just kind of neat if the case is all, as far as like tool history. For example if you want a 6 point 23/32 " socket, your likely out of luck.

I have the two oddball 53/64 " and 57/64 " in my hoard, trying to add to my X/32 " sizes I'm currently missing.
 

Private Lugnutz

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I guess the issue for me would be the trust I would have in a cold-broach socket, compared to modern engineering.
Agreed. That - but also profile (they are very bulky sockets and would likely have access issues unless the application was something contemporaneous to their production) - is what I was referring to here...
and will not really suit any of your practical modern needs.
..and..
the sockets will be heavy in profile and primitive by modern standards.
// BREAK //
^ exactly.
He's not going ot find all those /32's sizes in one brand. It's going to have to be some sort of a mix.
Right, but also a mix of eras (and therefore, composition and mfgring), as I indicated by the separated list I made just upthread. When 19/, 21/, 25/, 29/ and 31/ were still being made, the others (13/, 17/, 23/ and 27/) were already obsolete or being phrased out.
The 6pt part is going to make it more like early 20's, at best.
Yes. I largely ignored that. Only pressed-steel and the very early machined or cold-broached are going to be hex.
Maybe one of the master sets of pressed steel had the /32's?
Not maybe, definitely....
Mossberg and similar socket sets went from 15/32" to 1-9/32" - without missing a /32nd!
Mossberg's big set (No. 14) and equivalents from others, including some of the malleable iron mfgrs, the male drive tang mfgrs, etc, would do it - and I have several, but those kinds of sets are highly collectible as sets, not for the hair-brained novelty or "just in case". :)
It's interesting, seems like the conclusion is early 1900s Mossberg may be the only sets that had the competed X/32 " set.
And equivalents, yes.
Anyone know the tolerances on X/32 " sockets from the vintage era are? Are they plus or minus 1/32 "?
Meaning for example can a 19/32 " vintage socket have the same across the flats dimensions as a modern day 9/16 " or 5/8 ".
The pressed-steel stuff was ALL pretty loose, because nuts and bolts were not as well made. I am not a precisionist, but it's no secret that I think 1940's era drive tools were some of the best tools ever made in fit, feel, and durability.
For example if you want a 6 point 23/32 " socket, your likely out of luck.
Unless you're a vintage hound, agreed. The 27/32" is not much better, if my collection is any indication. After doing a quick sweep, I only have two (2)! I posted one upthread, from one of my Bethlehem Spark Plug Company socket sets. The second one is in my other (specialty sockets) BSPCo set. :)

Doing some light scouring this morning did make me remember I had this New Britain set, marked only with MADE IN U.S.A. and sizes. Old enough to have a lot of the 32ds but new enough to be hot-forged, hot broached, chrome-vanadium composition, cad-plated, without being too bulky.

1764181948391.png
1764182037810.png

The plus was it didn't have a handle, just the metal strap, so I grabbed one from the salvage drawer and put it on for the photo! :pimpflash Been meaning to get around to that, so thanks. HAHA

1764182268238.png
 

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Private Lugnutz

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@YoshiMoshi3

I had fun going through my drawers, bins, cubbies, and stashes. Not much to offer in terms of a decent "string" of /32nds, I am afraid. I have at least one of each size inside wood and metal boxed sets, of course, and there are a few of those sets I am not terribly attached to, but I don't think you want to buy the whole set (sockets, handles, extensions, and box) just to satisfy this 32nds hankering of yours, however intriguing.

Here're the extras I have that I don't mind parting with. It's a very meager and motley crew of a dirty dozen! :)

19/32": (1) 1930's Duro-Indestro WARD'S CV, (2) 1930's Circle-NB New Britain NONE BETTER C-series CV, (3) 1940's New Britain-era Husky H2844, (4) Walden-Worcester 219 "Chrome-Nickel" series, and (5) WWII-era black oxide Walden-Worcester 1819

21/32": (6) Unknown, (7) 1930's New Britain C-series CV, and (8) 1940's script New Britain NT-1221

25/32": (9) 1930's Duro-Indestro 1225 CV, (10) WWII-era cad-plated Walden-Worcester 1825

31/32": (11) WWII-era Williams ST-1231, and (12) Mid 30's Blackhawk 8431

Photos of the sockets are in the above order, top to button, left to right.
 

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Bob-B

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Years ago, I put together a 1/2” drive Williams set. I was able to find 19/32, 21/32, 25/32 and 31/32 sockets. I scored 10 NIB ST-1231 31/32 sockets from the TRW era and 4 NIB ST-619 19/32 sockets. I could send you 1 of each for the cost postage if you like.
 

Provincial

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FWIW, the following swap:

15mm & 19/32
18mm & 23/32
25/32 & 20mm
23mm & 29/32
31/32 & 25mm

First size listed is smaller of the two.
10mm & 13/32. 0.012 larger, which is pretty close.
15mm & 19/32. 0.003 larger.
18mm & 23/32 0.010 larger
19mm & 3/4 0.002 larger
25/32 & 20mm 0.006 larger
23mm & 29/32 0.001 larger
31/32 & 25mm 0.016 larger
 

Private Lugnutz

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Yep. All sets of that era were fairly standard across industry and mfgrs just as they were in later eras. Even the smaller sets like Ell handle kits, the Hinsdale and DASCO oblong slide lid set, even my weird male drive tang stuff from the more obscure mfgrs (Eastern, SWF, etc), all had some /32nds, just not as many as the larger sets in attache cases, which included the odd balls, too. Heck, I have 8-point /32nds sockets in several of my big sets. But I don't have extras of any of those pieces. That's the rub for putting one stringer of /32nds together. You'd need to find and buy a big early set (Hinsdale, NB, Indestro, SK, etc) with the oddballs and then a later set (Walden, NB, Plomb, etc) with the more standard others. If I ever needed a 23/32" or a 27/ etc, I have plenty sets to choose from. But piecing a complete set together from misc spares or secondhand markets is going to be challenging to implausible. And extravagant for the non-antique/vintage guy.
 
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humber2

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Here’s my rail of /32” fractional sockets, have never used one from it but would have used examples from 1/4 drive sets.

IMG_0204.jpeg


31/32 being Chrome Nickel

29/32 is Snap-on from 1937

25/32 is #225 Chrome Nickel from Walden Worcester, 6 point.

25/32 is Stahlwille

21/32 is Stahlwille

19/32 is Stahlwille

13/32 is Stahlwille

Then dropping to 3/8 drive

19/32 is Britool

17/32 is Britool

15/32 is Britool

15/32 is unknown 1/4 drive 6 point

9/32 is Walter 6 3/8 drive 6 point.IMG_0205.jpegIMG_0206.jpeg
 
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YoshiMoshi3

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Impressive collections and thanks for all the great information! The only manufacture of 27/32 was Bethlehem it seems, in the odd 1/2" male hex drive.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Here’s my rail of /32” fractional sockets
:love:
Welcome to the party! You're a couple few endeavorous steps ahead of @YoshiMoshi3 with that rail. Including other drive sizes to cast a wider /32nds service openings net was a great idea.

Your rail helps illustrate the likely mix of brands and eras that I warned him would be needed.

It also helps illustrate the challenge of piecing it together with happenstance orphans.

Note, for example, that we have the beginnings of a Walden "Chrome Nickel" set between us.
(They were making these in their learning to walk phase, after crawling through the early lunkers, before running at full speed through WWII.) You have a No. 225 and I have a No. 219. Unfortunately located on two different continents. :)
 

Private Lugnutz

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The only manufacture of 27/32 was Bethlehem it seems, in the odd 1/2" male hex drive.
"Only" is a strong term and even with the "seems" this statement is a lot more declarative than I would be without some caveats. As far as we have been able to ascertain, so far, empirically, it is starting to look that way. I don't have, I don't recall seeing or being aware of, and I can't find in searches for examples or of major mfgr's catalogs any examples of a 1/2-inch square drive socket with a hex or double-hex 27/32" service opening in the hot-forged (1919->) era.

I DO OWN a collection of spark plug sockets, from early to WWII...

1764247112844.png

...they tend to like /32nds sizes...

1764247151179.png

...and one of those has a 27/32" hex service opening.

1764247210426.png

Even though the Bethlehem Spark Plug Co sockets are not deep, I don't think it's too far of a stretch to suggest there is a logical connection there.

Searching through some of my WWII TM's confirmed the use case.

1764247366907.png
 

Private Lugnutz

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One quick side-note that may interest you, @YoshiMoshi3, before I start family festivities in earnest...

The War Production Board Limitation Order L-216, May 31, 1943, forbid the manufacturing of sockets with any /32" openings other than 19/ and 25/ during WWII.

1764252688130.png

How is that relevant to the topic? The WPB was conserving resources (steel, more precisely, precious alloys) and in 1943 they had deemed those service openings non-essential.

You can see them eliminated in many wartime catalogs or Price Lists. Here is just one example, with SK suspending 21/ and 31/.

1764252871227.png

While the 31/32" picked right back up after the war and continued to be made well into the 1970's, the 21/32" (Ford Model A connecting rods) was finally abandoned.
 
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YoshiMoshi3

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What is TM and is that example of a 27/32 stamped steel? I see sockets like those are some times called shower drain valve sockets or something like that.
 

four.cycle

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^ Interesting. Caused me to look at what Indestro was doing:
Indestro 1937 catalog offers the following 1/2" drive sockets in /32s: 11/32, 17/32, 19/32, 21/32, 23/32, 25/32, and 31/32
Indestro 1948 catalog offers the following 1/2" drive sockets in /32s: 19/32, 21/32, and 25/32 * also 29/32 special S.P. socket
 

Private Lugnutz

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^ As I noted way upthread as the industry trend and a typical evolution from what they (and their competitors Hinsdale and NB) were offering even earlier than that, in the cruder construction era, except Indestro held out even longer before dropping the oddballs. What's interesting is that upstarts like Blackhawk, Snap-on, (and even Walden) stuck to the major U.S.S. and S.A.E. sizes only when they broke into the business. I should probably do a chart to help visualize it all.
 
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