Yep. Another Icom thread.

[BrandoJames]

I think the Icon are pretty expensive. HF to me was geared more toward the DIYer and these prices might be putting HF beyond their niche.

Agreed. Let's just look at one product: metric ratcheting wrench sets.

10 pc Icon set = $149.
12 pc Williams set = $136 (Amazon).
12 pc Tekton set = $82 (Amazon).

To be fair, the Icon set appears to be "long pattern" wrenches. But still, who would buy Icon when you can get the Williams for less. And the 12 pc Tekton set is near half the price of Icon. Even with HF “Super Coupons”, I just don’t see the value.

If I want a nice set, I’ll go Williams. If I want a budget set, I’ll go Tekton. I don’t see Icon as a viable option here.

 

[Fedwrench]

Agreed. Let's just look at one product: metric ratcheting wrench sets.

10 pc Icon set = $149.
12 pc Williams set = $136 (Amazon).
12 pc Tekton set = $82 (Amazon).

To be fair, the Icon set appears to be "long pattern" wrenches. But still, who would buy Icon when you can get the Williams for less. And the 12 pc Tekton set is near half the price of Icon. Even with HF “Super Coupons”, I just don’t see the value.

If I want a nice set, I’ll go Williams. If I want a budget set, I’ll go Tekton. I don’t see Icon as a viable option here.

That's why value is in the eye of the user. I don't care for the Williams sets because of that huge direction switch that makes for a bulky boxed end.. I have the Tekton set. they are great wrenches for the money but, their boxed ends are a little on the wide/thick side. I bought the ICON set because of their extra length, crisp ratcheting boxed end that is a 12 point boxed end, along with their anti slip open ends. I'm quite happy with my selection

 

[lardy1]

I'm quite happy with my selection

And THAT, dear friends, is the heart of the matter.

 

[BrandoJames]

That's why value is in the eye of the user…I’m quite happy with my selection

You totally missed the point Gearhead made, or maybe you chose to ignore it. To summarize, Gearhead noted that HF may be pricing themselves outside of their “core niche”, the budget DIY market. My post was a reply to Gearhead’s rather astute observation, which may be a real problem for HF in the near future.

Right now, the early adopters (like you) are buying up the Icon tools. But to Gearhead’s point, that’s not HF’s core low budget market. And the premium priced Icon product line will now be competing for HF floor space with the lower priced budget items.

HF has a choice to make—they have limited floor space like any other retailer. They can remain a budget retailer or go upscale. There’s a lot of business risk in how they position themselves in the market. That's the issue here, not whether Icon tools make you feel happy.

 

[Fedwrench]

You totally missed the point Gearhead made, or maybe you chose to ignore it. To summarize, Gearhead noted that HF may be pricing themselves outside of their “core niche”, the budget DIY market. My post was a reply to Gearhead’s rather astute observation, which may be a real problem for HF in the near future.

Right now, the early adopters (like you) are buying up the Icon tools. But to Gearhead’s point, that’s not HF’s core low budget market. And the premium priced Icon product line will now be competing for HF floor space with the lower priced budget items.

HF has a choice to make—they have limited floor space like any other retailer. They can remain a budget retailer or go upscale. There’s a lot of business risk in how they position themselves in the market. That's the issue here, not whether Icon tools make you feel happy.

I was responding to your post strictly based on ratcheting wrench set price not to his post.

 

[BrandoJames]

I was responding to your post strictly based on ratcheting wrench set price not to his post.

My wrench set comparison was just to highlight Gearhead’s larger point. Let’s try this again, and we’ll leave Icon completely out for now just for clarity. I’m willing to pay a premium for the Williams set ($136) but not for the Tekton set. Here’s why: Williams is Snap-on’s industrial brand, and that tool company has a long history as a quality tool maker. With Snap-on & Williams, people will pay extra because for decades this company has made professional grade tools.

Tekton is a relatively new tool company, and they market themselves as a budget line for the DIYer. The have a relatively short track record, but they’ve been well reviewed as budget tools over the last few years. Tekton is already building a positive reputation as a 'value' line. I’ll buy Tekton tools, but pay less for them.

Now let’s bring in Icon, and all the Icon threads that have swamped this board. This tool line has zero reputation and a zero track record. They’ve already had a ratchet recall shortly after launch. The Icon product line doesn’t even have Tekton’s reputation for value. Yet you and your friends are quite willing to pay premium prices and throw money at an unproven tool line. And after thousands of posts, you still haven’t provided an objective rationale for why you’re doing that.

 

[Hiball]

Now let’s bring in Icon, and all the Icon threads that have swamped this board. This tool line has zero reputation and a zero track record. They’ve already had a ratchet recall shortly after launch. The Icon product line doesn’t even have Tekton’s reputation for value. Yet you and your friends are quite willing to pay premium prices and throw money at an unproven tool line. And after thousands of posts, you still haven’t provided an objective rationale for why you’re doing that.

Because they wanted too?

I realize your New, But rest assured Fedwrench is far from a tool snob.

 

[426 HEMI]

As far as the ratcheting wrenches go, haven't we established that they are made by Infar, and therefore they do have a proven track record?

 

[woody6904]

https://taiwantoday.tw/news.php?unit=7&post=117720

Good read on Infar

 

[BrandoJames]

Because they wanted too? I realize your New, But rest assured Fedwrench is far from a tool snob.

If I start a thread touting a new tool line, I should be able to explain why I started the thread. "Because I wanted to" isn't a reason, sorry.

 

[Hiball]

If I start a thread touting a new tool line, I should be able to explain why I started the thread. "Because I wanted to" isn't a reason, sorry.

Well... Since this is a “General Tool Discussion” Venue id say this is the place for those discussions? In regards to why people are willing to pay “premium” prices for a “unproven tool line” is really a personal decision and not for me or you to challenge. I’d add that calling Icon unproven is ironic because nothing they have brought to market is New, Sure they offer a ratcheting combo in long pattern, but the only thing exclusive is the beam length. Whether people like it or not, having the ability to drive to a physical location and put hands on tools aimed towards Mechanics is a big deal.

 

[Josey Wales]

"Important Information

Replacement sizes available with proof of purchase."

Does this mean they'll break sets to replace a single wrench, if you're the original owner?
That's what I'm getting out of this, from their website.

 

[Fedwrench]

I’m willing to pay a premium for the Williams set ($136) but not for the Tekton set. Here’s why: Williams is Snap-on’s industrial brand, and that tool company has a long history as a quality tool maker. With Snap-on & Williams, people will pay extra because for decades this company has made professional grade tools.

Yeah, NO. You're paying solely for the Williams name and the Snap on family tree thing because, the Williams ratcheting wrench sets are made in Taiwan. They're not part of the US made legacy of either Snap on or Williams. You're paying for a Taiwan made wrench set that someone laser etched the Williams name on to. Unlike Snap on, you're not paying for years of research & development.

Basically, we're comparing Taiwan made wrench sets to Taiwan made wrench sets. To be honest, fine toothed ratcheting wrench sets don't really have that long of history since Gearwrench first patented the fine tooth ratcheting wrench in 1996. They really took off around 2000-2001 when Matco introduced their Pro Swing line of fine toothed ratcheting wrenches.

Now the other thing to remember is that Tekton, Harbor Freight, Carlyle, and others don't own tool making factories themselves. They pay other tool companies to make certain tools possibly to their specifications or it could be an off the shelf model of something they want to sell after slapping their name on it. Capri tools would be another example too.

Let's bring Proto into the mix. For many years, Blackhawk was Proto's standard bearer when it came to fine toothed ratcheting wrenches. they're made in Taiwan and they're great ratcheting wrenches. Later when spline boxed ends were becoming the rage, Proto offered those Black Chrome ratcheting wrenches made in Taiwan by somebody but, stamped Proto. Then Proto probably fulling a requirement for a US made fine toothed ratcheting wrench series, came out with their eye beam series. Great wrenches!! had that funky offset kind of like Facom open end, combined with the thick eye beam, and fine toothed ratcheting spline boxed end. Currently Proto has yet another series of standard length fine toothed ratcheting wrenches with anti slip open ends, beautiful chrome, and a very nice reversible 72 tooth ratcheting 12 point boxed end. They resemble the Dewalt combination ratcheting wrenches closely. Proto is another great tool company with a long and distinguished history. However, since fine toothed ratcheting wrenches are relatively new, and are designed by Taiwan engineers (Taiwan tool makers really have the fine toothed ratcheting wrench segment covered), they maybe a new chapter in tool history but, not really a part of PROTO's legacy yet.

You are absolutely correct is saying that ICON tools are fresh off the boat so, to speak and have no established track record. Time will tell whether ICON withstands the test of time or will just be a blip on tool history radar.
However, I'm not really big on tool brand names. I buy what I like. I'm experienced enough to know what i like and I like the long pattern ICON ratcheting wrenches because, of their fit, finish, feel, and balance, I also like their anti slip open ends, their crisp 72 toothed ratcheting 12 point (not spline) boxed end. These wrenches could have easily had Carlyle, Matco, Proto, Dewalt, or any other name stamped onto them and I would have still purchased them too for the same reasons. Sometimes, you just have to give something new a shot and see how it goes. Obviously, ICON 3/8 drive flex head ratchets haven't done real well so far but, time will tell if Harbor Freight gets that worked out.
Perhaps it's the climate when live in today but, I've been on the journal long enough to see many US brands die out and the growth of other brands like Gearwrench, Carlyle, Koken, & Tekton expand but, I've never seen the amount of ill will aimed at ICON directed at any other brand debut

 

[ChrisLS8]

My wrench set comparison was just to highlight Gearhead’s larger point. Let’s try this again, and we’ll leave Icon completely out for now just for clarity. I’m willing to pay a premium for the Williams set ($136) but not for the Tekton set. Here’s why: Williams is Snap-on’s industrial brand, and that tool company has a long history as a quality tool maker. With Snap-on & Williams, people will pay extra because for decades this company has made professional grade tools.

Tekton is a relatively new tool company, and they market themselves as a budget line for the DIYer. The have a relatively short track record, but they’ve been well reviewed as budget tools over the last few years. Tekton is already building a positive reputation as a 'value' line. I’ll buy Tekton tools, but pay less for them.

Now let’s bring in Icon, and all the Icon threads that have swamped this board. This tool line has zero reputation and a zero track record. They’ve already had a ratchet recall shortly after launch. The Icon product line doesn’t even have Tekton’s reputation for value. Yet you and your friends are quite willing to pay premium prices and throw money at an unproven tool line. And after thousands of posts, you still haven’t provided an objective rationale for why you’re doing that.

I have both sets and the icon is better than the Williams in literally every single way, length, finish, fit, fastener engagement, backlash, ring thickness and selector switch. The Williams will be up for sale shortly along with the flex heads when the Icons become available if the length is the same as the standards

 

[m6z]

Harbor freight is the "Sears" for Millennials and gen Z.

Selection, value and warranty.

Fwiw my local HF was sold out of the 3/8 drive deep Icon sockets, so their $19.99 coupon is getting product out the door. They seemed to have the rest of the Icon line in stock.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

[derosa]

I was in the HF a couple weeks ago getting small parts cases for sorting legos and the checkout line stretched back to the Icon line so I spent a good bit of time checking them out. Although they look like fine tools I couldn't understand the prices, they don't seem any better then the gearwrench I have which cost a good bit less to buy. For the price of the wrench set I bought my set of Wright. The ratchet wrenches were missing the 8mm and 9mm so if I want a set that ones out. But the ratchet wrenches didn't strike me as better then a whole range of other brands that sell for the same or less. The biggest issue is that lack of individuals; right now I have enough wrench sets that I'm really looking for a wrench to toss in a working tool box. I've been helping a track team out at the local velodrome with tuning their bikes. This means both my 15mm and 17mm from my basement workbench are being kept in a box that heads to the track twice a week, be nice to buy just those two wrenches for just keeping in the tool box. I'll be able to order both from Proto or Wright for the not that much vs buying another set and having a bunch of random wrenches lying around.

 

[pstemari]

If I want a nice set, I’ll go Williams. If I want a budget set, I’ll go Tekton. I don’t see Icon as a viable option here.

I have found Williams to have very sloppy tolerances on the open end. Proto is much tighter and a similar price.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Ton ton]

Does Icon have a non-swivel long handle 1/2" ratchet available yet? I looked last night and couldn't find any@ my local HF.

 

[Fedwrench]

No but, Tekton has a 24 inch long 1/2 drive fixed head ratchet.

 

[Ton ton]

Thanks, fed wrench.