djjsr
Well-known member
If you can learn to weld with a cheap fluxcore machine, you'll do REAL well with a better gas shielded machine.
Young Guy Looking to Start Welding, Advice anyone?
- Thread starter Dar
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diesel research
Well-known member
No, "natural talent" won't get one very far by THEMSELF in welding w/o extreme doses of luck.
I don't believe anyone can have a natural talent for such a thing w/o understanding the principles behind it. That either takes years of experience, an accelerated class, or both.
It is a highly technical field, there are a lot of specs and root cause involved.
Plus to only learn on your own, requires you to have all of the equipment necessary. A conundrum you are finding out already. Atleast a class, you get to use someone else's equipment, not to mention getting the practice and guidance. A good welder and a good teacher are often 2 different creatures. There are a lot of top notch mechanics that couldn't teach their way out of a wet paper bag. Almost every "self taught" welder actually had a good teacher behind them whether they admit it or not.
Learning about rod selection, amperage, wire feed, gases, gas pressures, travel, arc length, safety can be a bit tougher on your own. Learning how to look at a weld and critque it isn't the easiest on one's own either. Granted ALL of these things can be studied in literature, but unless you have time for years of mistakes, learning through experience can be a slow or disastrous way. Want to learn about brakeclean thru experience? I didn't think so. No need to learn through experience about arc flash either.
Yes, oxy acetylene can be used for welding, it is quite difficult to master, but is one of the oldest techniques, and very versatile. It was the first they teach and handles pretty much any thickness, but sheetmetal can be a royal pain.
rsanter
Well-known member
take a welding class at the local aldul school or if you are in college then sign up
fined a local person that welds and have them show you
log on to metalmeet and try to learn something
do a search for a welding chat site and try to learn something
all options to follow
bob
fined a local person that welds and have them show you
log on to metalmeet and try to learn something
do a search for a welding chat site and try to learn something
all options to follow
bob
diesel research
Well-known member
btw, beware, everyone seems to claim they can/do weld. 
Even a few who do it on a daily basis, I consider not much more than "farm welders".
Even a few who do it on a daily basis, I consider not much more than "farm welders".It's my recommendation you start out with Oxy Fuel Welding (OFW), also known as "torch welding" or "Oxygen-Acetylene welding". There are several reasons for this:
1) OFW welding progresses slowly and uses a much lighter lens than any arc welding process. Arc welding requires a filter lens so dark you can't see out of it when not welding, whereas OFW welding is done with a filter lens the equivalent of dark sunglasses. As a consequence, it is easy to see the puddle, which makes manipulating it easier.
2) No welding operation is complete without a cutting torch, which is an attachment to the torch handle of an OFW setup.
3) OFW welding teaches rhythm, something Flux Core Arc Welding (FCAW), Metal Inert Gas (MIG) and Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW) also known as "stick welding" does not teach. Rhythm is important if you want to learn TIG at a later date.
4) OFW is an excellent process for brazing and steel tube work. It was also the primary method of welding sheet metal before electric processes took over. The 4130 alloy was specifically invented for extruded seamless "aircraft tubing" to be welded by the OFW process. The OFW process is still preferred for this type of work 75 years later.
Once you have a firm understanding of OFW you can progress to electric arc processes with the foundation skills to master them.
Regarding classes, it is my recommendation you purchase equipment of your own, then consider classes. My reasoning is that welding is a manual skill. Like any manual skill it is easily and quickly lost with time and developed only with lots of practice. It is not rocket science.
If you pay now to take a class now, by the time you have saved the money to purchase equipment you will have lost the basic skills you had only begun to develop. You'll also have no welding equipment.
There are many books out there which can help you with safety and methodology. Of those, I recommend you start with the textbook "Modern Welding" by Turnquist. This is a college-level textbook covering the fundamentals of welding processes and practice which has an excellent section on OFW welding in the beginning of the book, where it should be.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1566373301/?tag=atomicindus08-20
1) OFW welding progresses slowly and uses a much lighter lens than any arc welding process. Arc welding requires a filter lens so dark you can't see out of it when not welding, whereas OFW welding is done with a filter lens the equivalent of dark sunglasses. As a consequence, it is easy to see the puddle, which makes manipulating it easier.
2) No welding operation is complete without a cutting torch, which is an attachment to the torch handle of an OFW setup.
3) OFW welding teaches rhythm, something Flux Core Arc Welding (FCAW), Metal Inert Gas (MIG) and Shielded Metal Arc Welding (SMAW) also known as "stick welding" does not teach. Rhythm is important if you want to learn TIG at a later date.
4) OFW is an excellent process for brazing and steel tube work. It was also the primary method of welding sheet metal before electric processes took over. The 4130 alloy was specifically invented for extruded seamless "aircraft tubing" to be welded by the OFW process. The OFW process is still preferred for this type of work 75 years later.
Once you have a firm understanding of OFW you can progress to electric arc processes with the foundation skills to master them.
Regarding classes, it is my recommendation you purchase equipment of your own, then consider classes. My reasoning is that welding is a manual skill. Like any manual skill it is easily and quickly lost with time and developed only with lots of practice. It is not rocket science.
If you pay now to take a class now, by the time you have saved the money to purchase equipment you will have lost the basic skills you had only begun to develop. You'll also have no welding equipment.
There are many books out there which can help you with safety and methodology. Of those, I recommend you start with the textbook "Modern Welding" by Turnquist. This is a college-level textbook covering the fundamentals of welding processes and practice which has an excellent section on OFW welding in the beginning of the book, where it should be.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1566373301/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Steve from Socal
Well-known member
I agree with John (A-P mech) on learning to gas weld as we called it in the 'old days'. I don't know if there is a school near you that offers it but I would strongly suggest the school route FIRST. While you are learning to work a torch you are getting a feel for how metal reacts to heat and your motor skill coordination. Once you develop the skills you may become rusty but, you will have the correct movement down and practice will renew your ability. I do think taking formal classes at the onset of learning will instill proper methods and not have to break bad habits.
Having welding equipment at home may be nice but, there is a good chance that if you show interest and ability your instructor would allow you to use the school shop to do projects. I think getting the right training at school is FAR better than running beads at home because, even if the welds at home look great, you will encounter issues and situations that are best learned interactively.
Steve
Having welding equipment at home may be nice but, there is a good chance that if you show interest and ability your instructor would allow you to use the school shop to do projects. I think getting the right training at school is FAR better than running beads at home because, even if the welds at home look great, you will encounter issues and situations that are best learned interactively.
Steve
You might place an ad on craigslist wanted section that said young guy starting out looking for welding gear.Lots of old guys cleaning stuff out of the shop might enjoy helping a kid out more than haggling with some knucklehead over price.
If you were in northern Ohio I would give you my flux core wire machine.
If you were in northern Ohio I would give you my flux core wire machine.
ZRX61
Well-known member
Rule #1: Don't touch the red bits!
To learn to weld I found a retired welder on Craigslist... He offered lessons for $40 for a two hour session...The good thing is its one on one... And I welded for the whole time.... He showed me first ... Then I would try... He would correct and so on... I took a couple of those.. Used his welders.. He taught me the basics of mig, tig, and stick... Bought a welder... Miller 211... (Dual voltage ....New for a little over 1g.).. Then messed around with it on my own.... Around here a quailty machine ( miller, lincoln, etc.) goes for almost new price...
ibedayank
Well-known member
Bull not any more dangerous then using a lathe being and not knowing how to run or respect it .. aka wearing long sleeves untied back hair...drunk. Respect it and know the RIGHT way to run it and use flash arresters on your lines. A before O or up in 
you go
you goibedayank
Well-known member
Dar... for thin metal i use Mig for anything over 1/8 i use stick. Course most of my welding is outside and gas sheilded mig is worthless so stick welding is called for anyway
ibedayank
Well-known member
or the ones that are smoking....
Check this site out http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/index.html
I think you will enjoy reading, the guy has a way of making "light" with
the craft of welding.
I think you will enjoy reading, the guy has a way of making "light" with
the craft of welding.
diesel research
Well-known member
There are inherent dangers. If I said there wasn't, the "safety violation scavenger hunt" nazis would jump all over me.
Is there a reason to be scared? Respect the fire and it is about as dangerous as a bbq grill or sweating some pipes.
There are a few explosion hazards with anything involving OA. Flash back, swinging torch carelessly/burning fuel line, doing it around other vapors, not letting a tank rest STANDING UP for atleast one hour, disregarding pressure settings, improper start up/shutdown, drawing too much from too small of a cylinder ect ect.
All of that is real easy to overcome. As far as the welding itself, the risks aren't so great. Accidentally touching the "red bit" or not wearing appropriate clothing is about as serious as it gets. So long as you are conscious of combustibles and fire prevention techniques (same with grilling)
If I am allowed to do it at age 17 in school w/o supervision, that should tell you what danger level it is. The only hazard was that one "special" kid who didn't know how to set regulators or light torches.
Do you feel in extreme danger after watching this video?
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
First, if you look like a redneck, hippie, or a hillbilly, do something with the long hair or long beard. I've seen both end up in side grinders with twisted wire wheels. Both guys lost big patches of hair and hide. Watch your shirt leaves too.
Don't weld in the rain.
Don't wear polyester, nylon, or any other synthetic. Wear cotton. Starched cotton is better.
Wear real leather boots, not sneakers. When a red hot bb melts through your sneaker, or fake leather boot, no moments that the human body normally makes will keep it from charring it's way through the hide on the top side of your foot.
Keep your pants legs pulled down on the outside of the boots. You don't want the pants bunched up on the top of the boots like a foreskin or something either. They'll catch bb's in those little pockets and they'll burn through and fall into your boot.
Keep the flap pockets (the only kind to have om a welding shirt) on your shirt snapped down or bb's will end up in there.
Pay attention to the guys around you and keep an eye open to see if they're on fire. Seriously. Hopefully, they'll do the same for you. It's a lot easier for you to catch fire than you think. And it can get pretty serious before you notice it.
If you weld inside and outside, consider two hoods. I use a different hood for welding outside with a filter lens one shade lighter than that for use inside. Some people never have a problem using the same lens for both, but I did. You mileage may vary.
I still don't trust the self darkening lenses.
I can't see the need for overpriced hoods either. Two of my hoods are the White Fibre Metal Pipeliner model. I bought one in the mid 1970's and one about ten years ago. Other than replacing the rubber adjustment band, both still work finde. There's a reason that that hood, and a lot of other Fibre Metal hoods have been in production for forty years. They work.
Don't make fun of the geezers using a cheater lens. One day, you'll be using one too. (That's my third hood, the one with the cheater).
Oh, practice, practice, and practice.
WoD
Wrenches of Death
Well-known member
It's a lot safer in the rain than stick.
If you can weld properly with an acetylene torch, you shouldn't have any problem picking up stick, tig, mig, etc. It used to be pretty much a required "must learn" in welding classes. They'd teach you it before they'd move you up to the stick machine.
I used to use it a lot for thin stuff like sheet metal, exhaust tubing, etc. but cheap MIG machines are a hell of a lot easier and faster. I remember when GM changed the type steel used in the bodies back in the late late 1980's I think it was, and that ended using acetylene welding for body work.
I hate to say it but acetylene welding is another dying art. About all I use a welding torch for anymore is brazing and the occasional silver soldering.
The cutting attachment is an entirely different story.
WoD
southern iron
Active member
i didnt get to read all the posts on here , but this is what i got to add to it if it hasnt been posted yet
i would highly recommend you save your money and buy from a name brand company like miller,lincoln,hobart,esab,...why ? ...well any other off brands you'll never find parts and consumables for and since you are just starting out you gonna go through alot of them , i always tell my apprentices buy your first welder like your buying your last welder . craigslist has tons of deals
as far as sheet metal welding goes i would recommend using a mig machine with a argon mix with .23-.30 wire , this will make your life alot easier . fluxcore is mainly used for out door welding were wind might blow away your shielding gas and burns way hotter than a SMAW which will warp you panels if you not careful .plus fluxcore welding burns alot of smoke and has a **** load of spatter
if your doing frame work i WOULDNT use anything smaller than a 220v machine
as far as wire goes i like .30 -.35 for this and im usually in the 19-21v range
as far as the 90 amp harbor freight machine , i like it , for fences and no you cant hook up a argon mix to it .
i would highly recommend you save your money and buy from a name brand company like miller,lincoln,hobart,esab,...why ? ...well any other off brands you'll never find parts and consumables for and since you are just starting out you gonna go through alot of them , i always tell my apprentices buy your first welder like your buying your last welder . craigslist has tons of deals
as far as sheet metal welding goes i would recommend using a mig machine with a argon mix with .23-.30 wire , this will make your life alot easier . fluxcore is mainly used for out door welding were wind might blow away your shielding gas and burns way hotter than a SMAW which will warp you panels if you not careful .plus fluxcore welding burns alot of smoke and has a **** load of spatter
if your doing frame work i WOULDNT use anything smaller than a 220v machine
as far as wire goes i like .30 -.35 for this and im usually in the 19-21v range
as far as the 90 amp harbor freight machine , i like it , for fences and no you cant hook up a argon mix to it .