ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0

[zmotorsports]

Hi Mike,

I'm enjoying seeing your progress on your son's Jeep. One question - how are you figuring out the linkages for the axles? Is the information on what works best out there and readily available, or are you designing it from scratch as well as fabricating?

We’re not reinventing the wheel or anything on this build. We’re just using a manufactured crossmember and will then fabricate the links to place the axle in the correct place in the opening. I like the way the crossmember places the links fairly close so there won’t be much anti-squat. Much like my JKU and it rides and wheels fantastic.

Thanks for stopping by my projects thread.


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[zmotorsports]

Nice axle stand Mike. Looks high dollar. Lol. Definitely looks like it’s coming in real handy for this project.


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Thanks Shorty. Yeah, the stand is definitely coming in handy. I even commented to my son the other night how I wish I would have taken the time to built it many years (and many axles) ago.

I appreciate you following along Shorty.


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[zmotorsports]

Mike, are you using some kind of method to make sure the axle doesn’t twist from all the welding ? Not criticizing, just trying to learn.
Great work and thanks for posting !!

The key when doing this much welding on an axle is to not camp out on it and get all of the welding done in a short time. Move around a lot so the forces are opposite and let it cool between.

Thanks for checking out my projects.


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[zmotorsports]

During our last RV trip I happened to notice I had a little oil residue coming out from under a few of my lugnut covers which led me to suspect a drive axle flange gasket must be leaking.

I began by thinking I could just remove the center cap and pull the axle shaft but it has those stinkin’ little tapered split bushings on the studs. This meant having to remove the outer drive wheel to allow me to get in behind the flange and strike with a hammer to shock the bushings loose.


Axle shaft removed. Look at how much RTV was used whenever this job was done last. I bought the coach with 55k miles and it now has 120k but I prefer to use the correct gaskets vs merely RTV, although I’ve used RTV in a pinch but just not that damn much.


Gasket I picked up from my local heavy truck supply house (Six States Distributors).


These flanges get burrs or little dings on the outer circumference when trying to remove the spilt bushings. I recommend using a flat mill file to knock the highs down and ensure the sealing surface is perfectly flat.


Check for flatness.


I also breathe across the belt sander with the split bushings to deburr them.


Reassembling and using a deep chrome socket to tap the split bushings into place.


Drive flange nuts torqued to 70 ft/lbs.


Torquing the lugnuts to 450 ft/lbs.


Done.



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[customh]

***** when those "quick" jobs turn out to be a few hours.
Where do you get your absorbent mats? Looking for a reasonably priced vendor to get them at work. Fastenal and Uline charge crazy prices.

EDIT: Uline isn't so bad. Watching the Saturday Tour video- you're loving teasing your crate aren't you?

 

[zmotorsports]

***** when those "quick" jobs turn out to be a few hours.
Where do you get your absorbent mats? Looking for a reasonably priced vendor to get them at work. Fastenal and Uline charge crazy prices.

EDIT: Uline isn't so bad. Watching the Saturday Tour video- you're loving teasing your crate aren't you?

Travis, I was purchasing the absorbent pads from our local Grainger but then my local NAPA ended up matching then beating the price so I started buying from them. I use them somewhat conservatively though because they are a bit pricey.

Thanks for watching the video and "yes", I am enjoying the little teasers on the big brown box until I get time to actually start the project. Currently I'm merely trying to get all of my ducks in a row and collect the other items that may be needed for the project so when I actually do start I'm not waiting on parts and can roll right through it.

 

[zmotorsports]

We mocked the rear axle under my son’s WJ tonight using plumb bobs to center it in the wheelwell openings fore and aft as well as side to side in order to locate the lower spring pads.

Passenger side.


Driver side.


While we were lying under it we discussed a plan for the sway bar as well as limiting strap placement and upper & lower link angles.

The lower links will require about a 10-15 degree bend to hit both front and rear bushings at the correct angles. The upper links will pretty much be a straight shot with only a slight angle of the fishmouth.

 

[customh]

Travis, I was purchasing the absorbent pads from our local Grainger but then my local NAPA ended up matching then beating the price so I started buying from them. I use them somewhat conservatively though because they are a bit pricey.

Went with these from ULINE at work and just got them in today. NAPA looked more expensive so went with these. Just tried one out (it seemed to do its job) on a leaking forklift that is waiting on me to remove the power steering pump again. Just got it back together with new bearings in the motor like we talked about and the seal on the pump takes a ****. Figures.

We mocked the rear axle under my son’s WJ tonight using plumb bobs to center it in the wheelwell openings fore and aft as well as side to side in order to locate the lower spring pads.

This is the part of building that makes me anxious and I'd want some education and assistance with. Looking good!

 

[zmotorsports]

Went with these from ULINE at work and just got them in today. NAPA looked more expensive so went with these. Just tried one out (it seemed to do its job) on a leaking forklift that is waiting on me to remove the power steering pump again. Just got it back together with new bearings in the motor like we talked about and the seal on the pump takes a ****. Figures.


This is the part of building that makes me anxious and I'd want some education and assistance with. Looking good!

Thanks Travis. Like I mentioned I use the absorbent pads rather conservatively. If I have a "gusher" I will use a drip tray or pan so I can merely dump the oil and then wash it out and it's good to go. If I have a slow leaker or like yourself, something I'm waiting on parts and don't want to have a puddle, I will merely throw a pad down. I also make sure to use my pads completely. If I have one that is barely dribbled on I will put it on the side of my clean stack so I can reuse it rather than toss it and grab another next time. I will also use the half-used ones if I need to wipe up a spill or something before tossing in the trash. I also like that they are perforated so if I have a small job I can merely rip one in half and only have to use a half a pad.

As for my son's Jeep, this has been a learning experience for him as well. I've done these in the past but he was either younger or didn't have quite the interest as he does now that we are working on his Jeep.

That being said, the biggest thing to keep in mind is not only placement of the axle itself but also clearance of other items. In this case the fuel tank will be rather close. Luckily because it is a long arm suspension the upward travel of the axles will be somewhat straight vertical and not in an arc as it would be with a short arm suspension. I hope that makes sense.

We will be performing a tank lift mod but that will be a bit further down the road when he is fabricating his rear bumper. For now we want to get the suspension and drivetrain wrapped up and back on the road for testing.

Thanks for checking in Travis.

 

[shortykorte]

I'm still stuck on 450 ft/lbs for lug nuts. How does one apply that much torque. I must be a weakling.

 

[Yarz]

With the pictured torque wrench (I'm guessing about 3' long) you'd only need 150 pounds on the end of it.

 

[jbmatth]

The 3/4" drive torque wrench we use at work will go up to I think 800 ft-lbs of torque or thereabouts. When we have to torque stuff higher than that we use a hy-torc (hydraulic torque wrench) that I've used up to nearly 10,000 ft-lbs. but there is at least one model that'll go up to 130,000 ft-lbs.

JB

 

[zmotorsports]

I'm still stuck on 450 ft/lbs for lug nuts. How does one apply that much torque. I must be a weakling.

Shorty, my Proto 3/4" torque wrench goes up to 600 ft/lbs and with the length it doesn't take as much as you'd think, especially when you a bit on the heavy side to begin with.

 

[zmotorsports]

I machined some 1”-14 tube adapters for my son’s rear suspension links tonight.


Next my son and I repositioned the rear axle under the WJ and measured for the lower links. The lowers required a 10-degree bend as the frame end and axle end were in slightly different planes.

 

[Supergluid]

Have a question I am building a buggy and I used a cavalier motor and trans now having a hard time finding someone to build me shift cable's can someone point me in the right direction thanks

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Have a question I am building a buggy and I used a cavalier motor and trans now having a hard time finding someone to build me shift cable's can someone point me in the right direction thanks

Kartek

 

[zmotorsports]

Have a question I am building a buggy and I used a cavalier motor and trans now having a hard time finding someone to build me shift cable's can someone point me in the right direction thanks

I have used Control Cables Inc. out of CA and have had good results as well.

 

[BuffettFan]

Mike,
I have had very good luck with removing the tapered bushings by using an air hammer on the end of the axle shaft, right in the center.
Usually only takes a couple of 1 to 2 second bursts and they pop right out.
Beats pulling a wheel off!

Terry

 

[racer-john]

Back on post number 1447 did you post some pictures?

Passenger side.


Driver side.

if so they didn't show.
Love your work and details, don't respond much but always drop in to see to see what you're up to.
Cheers

 

[zmotorsports]

Back on post number 1447 did you post some pictures?

Passenger side.


Driver side.

if so they didn't show.
Love your work and details, don't respond much but always drop in to see to see what you're up to.
Cheers

Thanks for following along.

Yes, in post 1447 I posted a couple of pictures of the rear JK axle under my son's WJ mocked into position.

 

[racer-john]

They did not show up on your post 1447.

 

[zmotorsports]

They did not show up on your post 1447.

That's weird. I wonder if anyone else is having issues seeing them as I just checked and they were showing up fine when I looked. I also used the same GarageJournal app that I have used on the other pictures so I wonder why some are showing and some aren't.

 

[LXCam]

They did not show up on your post 1447.

I see'm just fine. Maybe you need to go toss some cookies or something

 

[memphisnate]

That's weird. I wonder if anyone else is having issues seeing them as I just checked and they were showing up fine when I looked. I also used the same GarageJournal app that I have used on the other pictures so I wonder why some are showing and some aren't.

They are showing up for me.

 

[racer-john]

That's weird. I wonder if anyone else is having issues seeing them as I just checked and they were showing up fine when I looked. I also used the same GarageJournal app that I have used on the other pictures so I wonder why some are showing and some aren't.

| could't see them on "firefox" but over here on "google chrome" they showed up including some that I didn't know were posted.

 

[racer-john]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmotorsports View Post
That's weird. I wonder if anyone else is having issues seeing them as I just checked and they were showing up fine when I looked. I also used the same GarageJournal app that I have used on the other pictures so I wonder why some are showing and some aren't.

| could't see them on "firefox" but over here on "google chrome" they showed up including some that I didn't know were posted.

 

[frank2112]

Fine for me on Firefox and Chrome.

 

[fnieto]

I can see it just fine, looking good Mike, as always.

 

[zmotorsports]

Thanks all. I appreciate the comments.

 

[zmotorsports]

Welded up the lower rear links for my son’s WJ project tonight.








Then a couple brackets.

 

[MP&C]

Nice work Mike!

 

[4 FN 27]

Mike do you or did you cross drill the tube so you can plug weld the Fitting in too (and weld it all around as you already did)?

We always did this on our 4-Link Bars and Wheelie Bars.

Nice as always Mike!!!

 

[zmotorsports]

Nice work Mike!

Thank you Robert, I appreciate that.


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[zmotorsports]

Mike do you or did you cross drill the tube so you can plug weld the Fitting in too (and weld it all around as you already did)?

We always did this on our 4-Link Bars and Wheelie Bars.

Nice as always Mike!!!

Pat, yes, I drilled through the tubing 180-degrees apart for rosette (plug) welds as well as the outside perimeter. I drilled 1/2” holes about 3/4” from the end of the tube, pretty much in the middle of the tube adapter. If you look closely at the second picture you can see where I blended the rosette weld flush with the tube so it won’t be noticeable after powder coating.

Like you I’ve made this a common practice whenever using tube adapters.

Thanks for the comments Pat and thanks for following along.




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[Bigblue&Goldie]

I've seen it done 3 ways, and I've never witnessed a bung pull out, though I have seen the bung threads ripped out from having loose jamb nuts working the heim back and forth. Typically the shank of the heim fails before anything else. On high stress, non- disposable suspension items (trailing arms, a-arms, etc.) it's pretty standard practice to use clamping/pinch bungs.

1) Weld perimeter of bung
2) Weld perimeter and add rosette welds (what I typically do)
3) Weld perimeter of bung and then use a fish mouthed sleeve over the perimeter weld of the bung to the tubing . I've seen this mostly on IFS tie rods where thinner tubing is used and your tie rod is supposed to bend before taking out the steering rack or spindles.

This is a tie rod we bent that is just a tapped piece of 4130. In the background is the shock tower that is done similar to what I described in 3) (only picture I have handy to illustrate the idea).

This is a trailing arm that uses a pinch bung (notice no jam nut)

This isn't my work (I wish it was), but it's a car I regularly race.

 

[fnieto]

Those bung fitting ain't going anywhere.

 

[zmotorsports]

I've seen it done 3 ways, and I've never witnessed a bung pull out, though I have seen the bung threads ripped out from having loose jamb nuts working the heim back and forth. Typically the shank of the heim fails before anything else. On high stress, non- disposable suspension items (trailing arms, a-arms, etc.) it's pretty standard practice to use clamping/pinch bungs.

1) Weld perimeter of bung
2) Weld perimeter and add rosette welds (what I typically do)
3) Weld perimeter of bung and then use a fish mouthed sleeve over the perimeter weld of the bung to the tubing . I've seen this mostly on IFS tie rods where thinner tubing is used and your tie rod is supposed to bend before taking out the steering rack or spindles.

Thanks. I've only seen one threaded tube adapter pull out and the only explanation I can offer is that it was poor penetration of the weld by my observation. Very little fusion and cold weld.

I like to add the rosette weld for added peace of mind and insurance although I think the perimeter weld is sufficient.

I've used the fishmouthed outer tube on a couple of occasions on sand rails where the owner wanted me to use thinner wall tubing that I thought necessary for a steering or suspension component. Just added a fishmouthed sleeve for wall thickness and it also looked nice. Made the owner happy and covered my *** as far as the builder.

Thanks for posting and following along.

 

[zmotorsports]

Those bung fitting ain't going anywhere.

Thanks Paco. I don't think so either but like I said, the rosette welds are just an extra step for insurance.

I appreciate you stopping by and checking out my projects. Good to see you back over here posting again. I enjoy following along on your projects.

 

[customh]

Looking good Mike. I think you should come to MN sometime. All go to Pat's place and really solve the world's problems.

 

[zmotorsports]

Looking good Mike. I think you should come to MN sometime. All go to Pat's place and really solve the world's problems.

I think that sounds like an awesome idea Travis. I think between the three of us we could knock out most issues in a relatively short timeframe.

Although Pat would have to mop up behind me as I wandered around his shop drooling, hell I don't think I would leave.