my KRL just fell over

[kythri]

You didn't explicitly say that it was a common occurrence, but your sentence phrasing of "this isn't the first time" would lead one to believe that the situation had occurred before, perhaps more than once, and far more recently than a decade ago.

Two instances a decade apart wouldn't suggest a critical flaw in the drain covering.

There may very well be, and I hope you find satisfaction, but your earlier description of the events (past and present) portray the working environment out far worse than later statements.

 

[SiGmA_X]

*Rant* As a previous shop owner, if a tech came to me with this I'd offer to repair his box in the manner this owner is doing (body shop). Plus I'd fix the drain. If the tech has issues with this and made a huge deal of it, he'd go walking. Then I'd let the other techs know that I would be willing to do the same repair again should something similar happen in the future for whatever reason. I'd also strongly suggest that folks not fill the shop with these overpriced shop ornaments.

Look, I like a nice box too. But I quickly got tired of having to be so careful around folks with these designer boxes. It's like parking your Porsche in the middle of a busy work bay, filled with lots of rusty, sharp, and heavy objects. Something is bound to happen. I know I'll catch hell for this, but it's my opinion.

Sh!t happens. Straighten, paint, move on. Plus, the box is only worth it's resale value, not replacement.

If my boss tried to repair a box like that, he'd be talking to my lawyer after a couple of calm conversations. That is no way to treat an employee and you should keep your shop in better condition than to have a floor grate that can't support the weight required of it. And FWIW, if you fired the tech after, more likely than not a wrongful termination suit can be brought against the shop, which would likely compensate the employee with 1+ years in wages. So that is really not the best way to attempt to handle something like this. FWIW.

Also, I should hope you could park a Porsche in the middle of a bay and not have it get damaged. That is what bays are designed for - storing a vehicle while its being worked on with ZERO damage done to the car.

Lot of big blustery talk on here about how "I wouldn't take it!" Everybody always makes Big-Man-I'd-Fight statements on the internet. I suppose all you guys would go Rambo on the boss, yeah? Kick him in the nuts and shove his tie down his throat?

In reality the OP is going to have to use a lot of tact and wisdom to get the best settlement he can. I hope the OP is listening more to the calm voices of reason here.

I should hope none of the people who "wouldn't take it!" would go Rambo on the boss. Like you said, tact and wisdom and calm voices of reason should work. If not, lawyer up.

As a tech, that pretty much sums up how I'd feel about it as well. The shop owner would be negligent in not fixing the drain grate after the first incident.

Yep.

sorry but you will probably lose that battle , companys tend to say you should have your OWN insurance on your tools and box
good luck at least give it a good fight .....

Uh, I don't think you're responsible for keeping the shop in working order, are you? This is a problem of a poorly maintained building, period. Shops responsibility, not techs.

i should know by tomorrow for certain. i had a positive conference call with management today. dont want to get my hopes up, but i feel like i see the end of the tunnel, the end i wanted.

so the question remains, did big bird die that day? or do i get another ultra yellow?

I hope you get a new box from them, its the least they can do.

 

[bmrisko]

You didn't explicitly say that it was a common occurrence, but your sentence phrasing of "this isn't the first time" would lead one to believe that the situation had occurred before, perhaps more than once, and far more recently than a decade ago.

Two instances a decade apart wouldn't suggest a critical flaw in the drain covering.

There may very well be, and I hope you find satisfaction, but your earlier description of the events (past and present) portray the working environment out far worse than later statements.

That is what I was thinking as I have been following this post up until now. My apologies to the OP for poor choice in wording my thoughts. I knew OP had mentioned this wasn't the first time a box had fallen over before and from the way he was talking, it seemed like (to me at least), that it was much more recent than 10 years.

 

[bmrisko]

That is no way to treat an employee and you should keep your shop in better condition than to have a floor grate that can't support the weight required of it.

OP says people/boxes/vehicles/forktrucks move over the grate everyday without incident. That would lead me to believe that the design and materials of the grating are adequate. People are making it seem like OP works in a rundown deathtrap of a shop with accidents waiting to happen at every turn.

 

[welderwink]

I also don't have time to go back and read 10 pages.

At the time you posted this, there was only 8 pages. So read up buddy.

 

[welderwink]

bmrisko

Do you even work in a shop or are you some office worker? Because to me it seems like you have never worked in a shop a day in your life. In a shop **** happens and when it is due to managements inability to keep a shop safe its their fault. 10 years ago they should have fixed this problem.

 

[bmrisko]

bmrisko

Do you even work in a shop or are you some office worker? Because to me it seems like you have never worked in a shop a day in your life. In a shop **** happens and when it is due to managements inability to keep a shop safe its their fault. 10 years ago they should have fixed this problem.

Let me guess, union laborer? So quick to blame management...

 

[bmrisko]

At the time you posted this, there was only 8 pages. So read up buddy.

Rounding error, good buddy...

 

[arkangel06]

any pics yet?

 

[welderwink]

Let me guess, union laborer? So quick to blame management...

Non union welder....and you're def management.

 

[00S4Boy]

im going to avoid arguing with the 'mythbusters' in this thread, theorizing how a packed 6' box falls over.

but dont worry, this is what im in for now... and im going over that drain as fast as ******* possible to spite you, on weird angles, like 32.4, and 63.2, one time, i used a fraction too.

the drain can be seen, running lengthwise, in the background... for all of its supporters. but you know what? it doesnt love you back.

is that a bjp1 i spot, ******* sweet tool.

 

[gdf_77]

Where I work, if something like this happened, they would have already had the floor fixed. Whether or not someone was hurt. Management is very picky about safety. We have weekly meetings with production, maintenance and management on possible safety concerns. I have seen them tear up 30 sq ft of concrete because of it being "unsafe". Yeah alot of us feel that some of the things are way over the top, but it has definately saved people from accidents.
I hope you get this settled on your side, I think you should.
And to all of the others that think this is the OP's fault, this is a very big concern for his employers shop. Whether or not someone was hurt, by cutting the grates, they have altered a guard. Because that is what it is, a guard, a safety device, that OSHA says "shall not be altered".
I know if I hire a someone to do a job, whether it is an oil change or my roof and they show up in a piece of **** or have a tool box that looks like it is about to fall apart I am probably going to take my business somewhere else. Those "shiney toolboxes" show pride in yourself and your work. And those people should not be belittled because of it.

 

[Sloper0204]

Well he is in a Union shop and the reason for unions is to protect us workers from bosses like you.

Oh man, thats grand. I suggest you back away from the coolaid.

 

[danski0224]

Well he is in a Union shop and the reason for unions is to protect us workers from bosses like you.

Do you really believe that?

 

[bmrisko]

Non union welder....and you're def management.

Sorry, nope...engineer now in a machine shop and previously in a large foundry. Before that I was a shop employee while in school. I've seen various ways of how safety is handled and working conditions that were all over the chart.

 

[Nix]

Since this is 5 years old I'm going to assume it's paid off so the below wouldn't be an issue. Just something for others to keep in mind if faced with a similar situation.

One thought that occurred to me in regard to getting insurance involved: It might be handled like a total loss auto claim. The insurance company figures out the actual cash value, pays off the lien (unless you're upside down), then pays you the balance (if there is one) and you're on your own to actually get the replacement. I have no idea how easy or difficult it is to get financing for a box through snap-on et al. but if you've had credit problems or the tool companies requirements have gotten more stringent you might want to keep this in mind. You could end up with no box and little or no money left to buy a new one.

I have no idea if a claim for a box would be handled like a car. I just wanted to put that out there as something to look into/be carefull of.

 

[SiGmA_X]

Since this is 5 years old I'm going to assume it's paid off so the below wouldn't be an issue. Just something for others to keep in mind if faced with a similar situation.

One thought that occurred to me in regard to getting insurance involved: It might be handled like a total loss auto claim. The insurance company figures out the actual cash value, pays off the lien (unless you're upside down), then pays you the balance (if there is one) and you're on your own to actually get the replacement. I have no idea how easy or difficult it is to get financing for a box through snap-on et al. but if you've had credit problems or the tool companies requirements have gotten more stringent you might want to keep this in mind. You could end up with no box and little or no money left to buy a new one.

I have no idea if a claim for a box would be handled like a car. I just wanted to put that out there as something to look into/be carefull of.

What do you mean this is 5yrs old? Pretty sure its 3 days old.

Stated value policies typically pay out full value. Thus the reason they are called stated value policies.

 

[mtwaterguy]

What do you mean this is 5yrs old? Pretty sure its 3 days old.


He's talking about the tool box.

 

[Newless]

Yea I guess I can see that your $350 stethoscope is equal in price to a $9800 tool box.

That's not the point.

 

[Newless]

Lots of luck.

You do not have any options outside of simply discussing things with the boss that won't rapidly degrade the situation.

A lawyer will not help the working relationship.

It is it unlikely that your union will do anything for you at all, besides collect dues payments.

If there is something wrong with the floor drain, and you have to lawyer up to get the point across, your employment future at the shop may not be so good.

It *****. It costs ~$10k.

A lawyer will cost more than that.

If you push things, you may lose your job.

A complete repair of the box may be impossible.

I would try for a 50/50 settlement.

If not, I would make due with another box and look for other employment.

I would not cross the drain again with my toolbox until it was made safe, and a company policy describing drain crossings was developed. Safety first.

You are lucky the major damage was confined to the toolbox. It can be fixed much more easily than you can be fixed.

And yes, seek medical attention if you have not done so.

Best post in the whole thread.

 

[Newless]

and our shop just lost the interest of one of its only productive mechanics. now i know why everyone else is so lazy and jaded.

You sound like the guys I work with.
Let me guess, your the only one that does any work and your given all the **** jobs?
Everyone's job is the hardest in the shop when push comes to shove.

 

[e-tek]

I'm really sorry to hear this, you have my sincere sympathy.
.

Jeez - you'd think he just lost his first-born!!!!!

 

[bmrisko]

You sound like the guys I work with.
Let me guess, your the only one that does any work and your given all the **** jobs?
Everyone's job is the hardest in the shop when push comes to shove.

...and it is all management's fault.

 

[Britwrench]

Few things on this:
Have there been any written reports about the drain?
Does moving the toolbox by one person go against Snap-On warnings on the box or OSHA rules?
If the drain was an issue, when did the OP generate a written report and hand it to management?

 

[bgott]

If the drain was an issue, when did the OP generate a written report and hand it to management?

It wasn't much of an issue before his box fell over.

I quit moving my box when it reached 1500 pounds or better. Find a safe place to park it and use your cart to haul the tools you need. Yes, you'll make a few trips during the job, but, if you are like me, you need the exercise anyway. You have to be paranoid, just because you think it might get wrecked doesn't mean that it won't!

 

[Blk63Vette]

Hi
I skimmed through this thread and being in the construction "safety" biz. These are my thoughts.. Yes they drain should be fixed immediately. Yes that is a nice tool box..But, more importantly nonbody was HURT..Tool box can be fixed or replaced..Per OSHA regs employer is responsible for a safe work enviroment. This is a definite hazard.

Good luck!

 

[danski0224]

does anyone have any experience with this? should i lawyer up? i would do it for spite even if it costs me another 10,000 to get a box.

I'll add this.

There was a recent death in the family.

No will.

I am not going into details here in a public forum.

Lawyer bill as of 7/22/2010: $6700.00

Total billable hours of work to date by the lawyer: about 24

Progress made since day one, a few months ago: It's really hard to tell. To be honest, the lawer would have to show me, and I bet that time would be billed at $275 an hour.

If you lawyer up, that toolbox will easily cost $20,000.00 before you get a new one, you will be out of a job, AND possibly blackballed to other owners that your boss knows.

Think long and hard about this.

This isn't a multimillion dollar deal here. It's $10,000.00.

Hell, even multibillion dollar class action suits result in tens of dollar settlements for the plaintiffs. Who was wronged, and who made the money?

There isn't a single professional lawyer that will take your case on a contingency basis.

You will be paying for a retainer, and then by the hour.

Every phone call, email, piece of paper, court filing and office visit will cost you an hour.

My deal is in the mid six figure range of value, and I am questioning the value of a lawyer. By the time it is settled, there will be nothing left. A lifetime of work, vaporized.*

Man up and move on.



* As a side note, those of you that either don't have wills, don't tell people about the existence of a will, or don't keep things up to date are doing NO ONE a favor. The only 2 winners will be the State and the Lawyer.

** And if your State allows the widow to opt out of a will, and the next of kin can't come up with a copy of the will, 1/2 of the estate goes to the widow. The numbers change if a copy of the will exists, in another place where she can't "lose" it. I would assume this works both ways (wife/husband), but I am not sure.

 

[johnny1290]

Damn that box is busted. Sorry to hear that man. Keep us posted. I'm seriously glad nobody got hurt. man.

 

[doug.j]

http://www.plumbingengineer.com/nov_07/drain_design.php

I don't know how much the box weights but take a look at the web page under "traffic conditions" I would assume a garage is at least medium duty (2k to 5k).

I would at least get some photos and measurements. If you get a new job you could file a small claim case and recover some loss.


I think the employer is foolish. If another drain incident happens and an injury results then damages might be punitive and very costly. The best action is to replace the box and correct the hazard.

 

[beelsr]

Oh man, I feel for you. You've got a long fight ahead of you - depending on the state. Massachusetts absolutely *****!

My mom's brother died intestate 3.5 years ago. >200K estate. About 30-40K made it to my mom - after 2 years of the whole legal system leeching as much as they could. Plus, he paid over 100K into Social Security and died at 58.

And my mom refuses to make her will because "thinking about it just drains my spirit"...

I'll add this.

There was a recent death in the family.

No will.

 

[Fubar]

Having been an employee and a shop owner my thoughts are this:

Most places expect you to have enough tools to properly perform your job. In most cases, that can be quite a sizable amount. Now also, most shops are not going to/do not have the insurance to cover theft of employee tools (hence the talk of private insurance). SO, in that vein, when it's time to purchase a tool chest, would I want the cheapest box I could get? Or would I want the best box to serve my needs as far as security, and ease of use, and long lasting? No box prevents theft you say? Well then, how many of you have worked places that fellow employees/hangarounds (or a environment like a gas station that's open all hours) would take tools?? Passive theft if you will. Quite a few I'd bet, and I'd also be willing to bet that most would post up little sympathy for someone who had tools taken that willingly didn't do everything they could to secure their tools knowing the risk.

So if I'm expected, or would expect as the case is, that I'm/my employees are properly equipped then I would expect or be expected to have an environment that was conducive to what I have to do. If I am warned about certain risks/, then the ball's in my court. If the unforeseen happens (failure of a drain cover with no known issues, or misuse), then as the owner I would feel it's my responsibility to try to take care of the damage to the best of my ability, just as I would expect an owner to do for me. How, as an owner can I ask my help to treat my equipment carefully and properly, but have that disregard for theirs? I've worked for people that had marginal/worn equipment (I'm sure others have also) that went absolutely ******* over a worn and outdated unit giving up the ghost like you had purposely ruined it, but a sizable employee investment is nothing?

And for the owner who feels that "trophy" toolboxes have no place in his shop, well the only time I'll agree is if the person has to have the largest box, but does not have the tools to warrant it (and I've seen this many times also). Most of the people I've worked for were hands-on bosses and had the biggest/best boxes in the place, and liked the fact that you stepped up to the plate to make the investments, and respected your equipment like they did theirs....

 

[jay50]

Where's the union shop stewards involvement? What are they doing?
Maybe he's too busy tallying up the union dues he collected this month and planning his next golf outing with the shop owner...

Nutless union...

 

[Deafautotech]

wow that pictures look good! i wish i could post of pictures on my box but i don't think my boss would permit... so i just kept it in drawer...

 

[Deafautotech]

It wasn't much of an issue before his box fell over.

I quit moving my box when it reached 1500 pounds or better. Find a safe place to park it and use your cart to haul the tools you need. Yes, you'll make a few trips during the job, but, if you are like me, you need the exercise anyway. You have to be paranoid, just because you think it might get wrecked doesn't mean that it won't!

Yep... that why i bought a used Matco MSC12 to do all my works while my KRL1203/Krl1003 parked with tons weights of tools! i had to moved it twice to make room at my work, it is S.O.B to move it even i has 6 casters as spring loaded...

 

[warpedredneck]

updates?
like to know the outcome.

 

[mrholeshot]

When you get up into really large size boxes you need a good roll cart to get to other Jobs. My Techs had a parking spot for there big box and if they worked away from their bays they took the cart. The only time the boxes got moved was each year when the floor was painted. I'm still waiting to see pictures of the box.

My Macsimizer fell over on it's face once. It was because it was a new floor and one spot wasn't quite level. I left the box unlocked and the drawers creeped out and the box fell over. No real damage to speak of and the top drawer had at least 500 pounds alone in it. That box was so heavy that when I brought it home it fell the wheels fell through the floor (3/4 oak plywood) of my race car trailer. Tough box.

 

[danski0224]

That box was so heavy that when I brought it home it fell the wheels fell through the floor (3/4 oak plywood) of my race car trailer. Tough box.

That'll happen when a few thousand pounds of load is evenly distributed over about 4 square inches...

 

[mrholeshot]

That'll happen when a few thousand pounds of load is evenly distributed over about 4 square inches...

Yeah, what was even funnier was once we got it out of the holes and two of us rolled it down the ramp it pulled two of us down the ramp and all the way through the shop and out the back door. Just glad there was a door there. Those things just arn't made to move around constantly. To dangerous

 

[Coach James]

Yeah, what was even funnier was once we got it out of the holes and two of us rolled it down the ramp it pulled two of us down the ramp and all the way through the shop and out the back door. Just glad there was a door there. Those things just arn't made to move around constantly. To dangerous

Now I wish you had that on video!! That reminds me of a Three Stooges clip.

Coach

 

[caseyjw]

Fubar I'd work for you.