'78 F350 Dually Project

[PugetDude]

Blatant post count whoring.

 

[WoodsTruck]

For some reason, your truck came to mind. (sorry, photo loading error)

 

[RivennHewn]

Today is not the day to replace a starter.

 

[PugetDude]

Today is not the day to replace a starter.

February 2, 1996. I was living in Spokane; had to change a starter on my F150 truck in the gravel driveway.
Second coldest day on record- -24F.

30+ inches of snow at the end of January was still on the ground.
That was one miserable job.

Probbaly not as soggy as you're going to get, though.

 

[Glenn M.]

I don't know how you guys do it...

 

[RivennHewn]

February 2, 1996. I was living in Spokane; had to change a starter on my F150 truck in the gravel driveway.
Second coldest day on record- -24F.

30+ inches of snow at the end of January was still on the ground.
That was one misrerable job.

Probbaly not as soggy as you're going to get, though.

Y’all got me beat by 50 degrees .

It’s 25 out, and the ground is still wet. Not laying in wet mud.

About the time it freezes solid, the rain will return and puddle on the frozen ground.

Good thing I have two other trucks

 

[bulletpruf]

Did something similar when I was stationed in Korea in 2014 or so. Had to reinstall the transfer case in my 1999 Yukon beater in the parking lot of our housing complex - in the 30's, windy, freezing rain. Loads of fun.

 

[RivennHewn]

Still no starter. And now a flat tire?

!&:#?!!!!

 

[RickP]

Some days, don't you just wish it was somebody else's problem to deal with? I hate it when equipment is suddenly broken just when I'm finally ready to use it -- always chasing the next fix...

 

[RivennHewn]

Some days, don't you just wish it was somebody else's problem to deal with? I hate it when equipment is suddenly broken just when I'm finally ready to use it -- always chasing the next fix...

It’s the “Fun part” of owning old trucks

 

[RivennHewn]

I still don’t have a new starter, but I’m feeling pretty today.

 

[rattle_snake]

I've got an extra 460 PMGR starter but a long way from where your at

 

[RivennHewn]

I've got an extra 460 PMGR starter but a long way from where your at

So, I’m not that familiar with them.

Other than they are smaller, and hit a little harder. And slightly different wiring.

The old beast has always been a hard start, and I’ve replaced a few starters already .

So I’m liking the idea of the PMGR.

Any brands to go with? Any to stay away from?

Any input would be appreciated

 

[bulletpruf]

So, I’m not that familiar with them.

Other than they are smaller, and hit a little harder. And slightly different wiring.

The old beast has always been a hard start, and I’ve replaced a few starters already .

So I’m liking the idea of the PMGR.

Any brands to go with? Any to stay away from?

Any input would be appreciated

If you've replaced a few starters already, maybe your problem is something else.

Does it start hard only when warm? If so, a heat shield on the starter may fix it.

Other issues - high compression (kind of doubt that's your problem), inadequate battery size/CCA, or too much ignition timing will all cause hard starting.

What about your battery cables? The powerboat community figured this stuff out a long time ago, and I try to follow their lead. I use heavy gauge tinned copper wire with Ancor tinned copper lugs crimped on each end (use a bit of Novalox on the wire, too). At the battery, I use military terminals.

 

[Citation]

So, I’m not that familiar with them.

Other than they are smaller, and hit a little harder. And slightly different wiring.

The old beast has always been a hard start, and I’ve replaced a few starters already .

So I’m liking the idea of the PMGR.

Any brands to go with? Any to stay away from?

Any input would be appreciated

Asking without knowledge...
Does this truck have a tank mounted fuel pump? When starting hard is part of the problem you are waiting for the mechanical fuel pump to pressurize the fuel lines from the tank? I'm asking based on a recent Car Wizard episode where he added a fuel pump to the tank of a Beetle for this reason.

 

[rd65]

Just found your thread. Bummed the old pics dont come up. Truck still have the 400? Looks like you're a little north of my neck of the woods in Granite Falls. Currently working on an 80 F350 DRW, 400, C6. Guy is Sedro did the machine work - Huson Auto/Shark Racing Engines. I get going on it, then life gets in the way like it tends to do.

 

[RivennHewn]

If you've replaced a few starters already, maybe your problem is something else.

Does it start hard only when warm? If so, a heat shield on the starter may fix it.

Other issues - high compression (kind of doubt that's your problem), inadequate battery size/CCA, or too much ignition timing will all cause hard starting.

What about your battery cables? The powerboat community figured this stuff out a long time ago, and I try to follow their lead. I use heavy gauge tinned copper wire with Ancor tinned copper lugs crimped on each end (use a bit of Novalox on the wire, too). At the battery, I use military terminals.

Both batteries are all cables are in good shape.
I upgraded them awhile back when I added the second battery.
It didn’t seem to help much with the hard cranking starts. Heat doesn’t seem to affect it.

Timing is a little hard, as the previous owner lost the timing indicator. It’s set by ear

 

[RivennHewn]

Asking without knowledge...
Does this truck have a tank mounted fuel pump? When starting hard is part of the problem you are waiting for the mechanical fuel pump to pressurize the fuel lines from the tank? I'm asking based on a recent Car Wizard episode where he added a fuel pump to the tank of a Beetle for this reason.

No pump in the tank. Fuel pump was replaced a couple years ago.

 

[RivennHewn]

Just found your thread. Bummed the old pics dont come up. Truck still have the 400? Looks like you're a little north of my neck of the woods in Granite Falls. Currently working on an 80 F350 DRW, 400, C6. Guy is Sedro did the machine work - Huson Auto/Shark Racing Engines. I get going on it, then life gets in the way like it tends to do.

It’s got a 460, manual.

I know the feeling, it tends to do that

 

[bulletpruf]

Both batteries are all cables are in good shape.
I upgraded them awhile back when I added the second battery.
It didn’t seem to help much with the hard cranking starts. Heat doesn’t seem to affect it.

Timing is a little hard, as the previous owner lost the timing indicator. It’s set by ear

I'd definitely put a new timing pointer on it, or at the very least, retard the timing a bit to see if that helps.

Even if your cables are in good shape, they may still have a lousy connection. I'd clean off the ground cable connections on the frame and/or block.

 

[PugetDude]

Riv, when I lived in Spokane I had an F-250, 460 with a stick.
Hardest starting vehicle I ever owned.
New starter, new battery, cables, rebuilt carb.
Still was balky starting, nearly impossible in winter.
Usually ended up hitting it with a shot of ether.

 

[rattle_snake]

Perhaps the reason ford went to the PMGR units on later model 460.

Several of the available starters including the parts stores come from the same place. So unless you want a high end one, buying local has its advantages. Same stuff at Summit/Jegs. That is what I did at the recommendation of the 460 guru mad porter.

 

[NORDFORD]

Hard start is fuel, timing or power. All are easy.

I know you know all of these things, but this is the internet so I’m going to chime in.

As far as power, proper grounding is a must. You shouldn’t have washers, etc between the lug on your ground wire and its attachment. This is a very common issue I’ve seen. For whatever reason, guys put a washer on the ground stud, then the lug, another washer, lock washer then nut. Also, lug holes are sometimes significantly bigger than the stud they attach to. Ideally, lug and stud size are the same, clean and attached tightly. All of these are easy to overlook. Please don’t ask how I learned these lessons!!

Timing is also huge and sensitive. Get that sorted properly, even a couple degrees makes a huge difference. Points? Coil? Plug wires? Distributor? When in doubt, OHM it out.

Fuel. FFS, fuel. Inline, clear filters tell a great story. You can see rust, moisture, contaminants with ease. Always helps to know that the fuel you’re getting is good.

 

[RivennHewn]

Hard start is fuel, timing or power. All are easy.

I know you know all of these things, but this is the internet so I’m going to chime in.

As far as power, proper grounding is a must. You shouldn’t have washers, etc between the lug on your ground wire and its attachment. This is a very common issue I’ve seen. For whatever reason, guys put a washer on the ground stud, then the lug, another washer, lock washer then nut. Also, lug holes are sometimes significantly bigger than the stud they attach to. Ideally, lug and stud size are the same, clean and attached tightly. All of these are easy to overlook. Please don’t ask how I learned these lessons!!

Timing is also huge and sensitive. Get that sorted properly, even a couple degrees makes a huge difference. Points? Coil? Plug wires? Distributor? When in doubt, OHM it out.

Fuel. FFS, fuel. Inline, clear filters tell a great story. You can see rust, moisture, contaminants with ease. Always helps to know that the fuel you’re getting is good.

Thanks.

The batteries are fairly new, and recently tested.
Tank and lines are new.
Distributor/coil and all wires replaced within the last couple of years.

Starters have been Oreillys level junk, so I’m thinking I’d like to try an upgrade.

I do not know what year the engine is, or what it came out of.

 

[RivennHewn]

Just found your thread. Bummed the old pics dont come up. Truck still have the 400? Looks like you're a little north of my neck of the woods in Granite Falls. Currently working on an 80 F350 DRW, 400, C6. Guy is Sedro did the machine work - Huson Auto/Shark Racing Engines. I get going on it, then life gets in the way like it tends to do.

I hadn’t realized my early pics are gone.

I’m super bummed. This *****.

 

[rd65]

My 80 w/ 400 had trouble starting when warm, would hardly turn over. Starter is fairly recent (bought truck from FIL, he rarely drove it, paper tags are still on starter). Found at 'T' junction in negative cable at the crossmember, then cable continued onto engine. HEAVY corrossion at the T, likely due to water wicking up exposed cable. I replaced the cable, without the T, ran a second ground to the crossmember and truck seemed to start fine when hot after that. Didn't get many miles after that, the rear main drip turned into rear main flow. lol

 

[RivennHewn]

Well, ****.

Starter bendix gear seems fine.

Flywheel gear teeth seem a bit chewed.

Seems like this is going to be a bit more involved.

 

[phred]

Those teeth are that bad. Take the inspection cover off and dress each tooth with a triangular file. Bar the flywheel over with a long screw driver until you have hit each tooth. I’ve done this in my truck. Takes about 30 min on your back.

 

[RivennHewn]

Those teeth are that bad. Take the inspection cover off and dress each tooth with a triangular file. Bar the flywheel over with a long screw driver until you have hit each tooth. I’ve done this in my truck. Takes about 30 min on your back.

Thanks,

I was planning on checking it teeth today, but got lazy.

Been my experience that teeth can be fine in one area, and trash half way around. All depends on extent of warping.

Hoping for the best, but trying to get prepared for yanking things apart

 

[RivennHewn]

 

[Strouty]

Sounds like a 460...

 

[RivennHewn]

Sounds like a 460...

A very tired 460

 

[RivennHewn]

I’ve seen this guy around for a few years, but never see in running down the road or who drives it.

 

[RivennHewn]

Picked up a small lot of aviation style cargo strap bracket/tie downs.

I’m thinking they’ll make my life a little easier.

With the toolbox mounted, it’s hard to get to the front tie off points.

So I don’t have to listen to them rattling, they all fit in a bag in the toolbox.

I just screwed them in tonight. Thinking I’ll add Rivnuts when I can get to my rivet box

 

[WoodsTruck]

I used the 4' slide lock from Mac's in my trucks. My '12 I was able to mount them on the lip below the bed cap. On my '17 I had to mate them to the side of the bed cap. Pick up the '23 tomorrow. Who knows where they will fit. Makes it super easy to keep propane or 5 gallon buckets upright, tie down a load without digging at the bottom of the bed. But you know all that.

 

[RivennHewn]

I used the 4' slide lock from Mac's in my trucks. My '12 I was able to mount them on the lip below the bed cap. On my '17 I had to mate them to the side of the bed cap. Pick up the '23 tomorrow. Who knows where they will fit. Makes it super easy to keep propane or 5 gallon buckets upright, tie down a load without digging at the bottom of the bed. But you know all that.

Look who’s getting a new truck!!

You ain’t gonna get any sleep tonight!


I like the longer sections. I also like the free part of the ones I got.

 

[WoodsTruck]

I'll sleep just fine.
The headache of getting all my goodies swapped over at a time I'm overly busy at work kind of ***** though.

I don't turn down free, unless it makes me itch.

I also hang a small brush in the back corner of the bed of my trucks. You'd be surprised how often you need to scrub the mud off your boots before you throw them in the cab or brush off the caked on mud from the spare tire. Had a contractor tell me about the toilet bowl brush years ago. He said no one will steal a toilet brush. He's been proven right so far.

 

[RivennHewn]

Somebody is feeling clean and pretty again.


Had to pressure wash the driveway today, so I hit the truck too.

Then off to the dump, where the bed decided to not come down. The plunger on the PTO is getting grungy, and when I pulled on the handle, the cable bent instead of moving the plunger.

Had to find a long stick, and pry on it from a safe distance. Didn’t want it coming down on my head.

Anyone have a good source for PTO cables?

 

[danski0224]

Any input would be appreciated

You will need to upgrade your battery cables. See instructions for Powermaster 9605.

Both batteries are all cables are in good shape.
I upgraded them awhile back when I added the second battery.
It didn’t seem to help much with the hard cranking starts. Heat doesn’t seem to affect it.

Timing is a little hard, as the previous owner lost the timing indicator. It’s set by ear

My hard starting did not go away until the Powermaster was installed. It started fine, first start of the day. Once warmed up, it could be a slow crank. I do not believe that any "extra" heat was the issue, just the heat once it got to operating temperature. The starter wouldn't really cool off, except after a few hours.

If you have headers, ceramic coating makes a HUGE difference.

I'd move the distributor around a bit. Just a little bit can make a huge difference. Also make sure that the vacuum advance is connected to ported and not straight manifold vacuum.

A very tired 460

Edelbrock has a bunch of nice go fast parts...

I'd check here for the cam, though:

Cam Reseach – Custom Ford Camshafts | The experts in custom-ground Ford camshafts

 

[RivennHewn]