Service Entrance LB

[600SL]

I'm putting 200 amp service off to my garage. Since it is being feed off the house 320amp meter it just requires an LB at the garage. I'm using 2.5" PVC conduit so I need a 2.5" LB at the garage. I found there are 2 different types of LB's, LB and SLB. Do I assume I have to use the SLB since it is a service entrance to the garage. Difference in cost is between $100 to $200.

Halex 2-1/2 in. Aluminum Rigid Threaded Conduit Body 58625 - The Home Depot

The 2-1/2 in. Threaded Conduit Body is designed to gain access to the interior of a raceway for wire pulling, inspections and maintenance. The elbow has a cover and gasket for easy access. It is suitable

www.homedepot.com

Killark SLB-7 2-1/2" LB Hub, Aluminum Service Conduit Body | Independent Electric

2-1/2" LB Hub, Aluminum Service Conduit Body

www.iesupply.com

 

[sparky 1971]

SLB's can be a ******* to get the wires through. If you want to use a metal LB, you're going to have to run metal from it in to the panel. You can't have a metal LB with PVC on both sides because it won't be bonded.

Also, why 2-1/2"? 2" is plenty and a helluva lot less money.

 

[Bert_]

Slb's ****.

Sparky is correct that you can't use a metal lb with PVC on both sides. Have to have metal conduit on at least one side so it's grounded

 

[600SL]

SLB's can be a ******* to get the wires through. If you want to use a metal LB, you're going to have to run metal from it in to the panel. You can't have a metal LB with PVC on both sides because it won't be bonded.

Also, why 2-1/2"? 2" is plenty and a helluva lot less money.

Because I have over a 200' run I up sized the wire to 250 AL. Yes 2.5" does seam to be a ******* for a size. I will be running a 12" steel ****** through the wall and into a CB box. Question is, can I use the standard $48.00 LB instead of the $191.00 SLB?

 

[600SL]

Slb's ****.

Sparky is correct that you can't use a metal lb with PVC on both sides. Have to have metal conduit on at least one side so it's grounded

Do they **** any more than regular LB's. Do I need an SLB. LB will be connected to CB box with 12" steel ******.

 

[600SL]

Is there an alternative to an LB or SLB.

 

[sparky 1971]

Because I have over a 200' run I up sized the wire to 250 AL. Yes 2.5" does seam to be a ******* for a size. I will be running a 12" steel ****** through the wall and into a CB box. Question is, can I use the standard $48.00 LB instead of the $191.00 SLB?

Sorry, you can use whatever LB you would like. I wouldn't use the SLB even if it cost less.

 

[sparky 1971]

Is there an alternative to an LB or SLB.

You could use an outdoor junction box. It would have to be 6X the diameter of the conduit though. 2.5X6=15". Hoffman makes a 3R 15X12X6. 15" tall, so you could come in the bottom and out the back at the top. It probably won't save you any money, but getting wire through would be a whole bunch easier. Only having to go through 12" of conduit after the LB won't be too bad though. I took 30' of 4/0 through an LB and a 90° on Friday. That was a ****** since my help was the customer.

Hoffman A15R126 Screw-Cover, Type 3R, 15" x 12" x 6", Steel | OneSource Distributors

Drip-Shield Screw-Cover, Type 3R is used as a wiring or junction box to protect controls in outdoor applications that require protection from rain, sleet, snow or dripping water.

www.1sourcedist.com

And...since your using 250, what type of wire is it? If it's URD, it can't be run inside unless it's dual rated for indoor use.

 

[Bert_]

A regular lb is 10x better. 250 will go through 2 1/2 lb and conduit easily. You could use a 3" lb and reducers but I don't think that's necessary

 

[BreeStephany]

Do I assume I have to use the SLB since it is a service entrance to the garage.

SLB = Short Line Box. As Sparky and Bert stated, SLBs ****! I hate using SLBs, but sometimes you just don't have the working room for a regular LB.

LBs do look nicer for service entrance for sub panels on sub buildings, but as Bert and Sparky brought up, you will likely hate yourself less if you use a 3R rated enclosure when you go to pull in conductors and get conductors to fit in.

I would also check with your AHJ / inspector if you plan on getting it inspected. I have been called out for not having a bonding bushing on the conduit from the feeders. They are standard for any feeders where flex are used, but I have been called out and told that they want to see them on feeder conduits as well, even when the steel conduit, ******, etc. are clearly bonded by the locknuts. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[600SL]

You could use an outdoor junction box. It would have to be 6X the diameter of the conduit though. 2.5X6=15". Hoffman makes a 3R 15X12X6. 15" tall, so you could come in the bottom and out the back at the top. It probably won't save you any money, but getting wire through would be a whole bunch easier. Only having to go through 12" of conduit after the LB won't be too bad though. I took 30' of 4/0 through an LB and a 90° on Friday. That was a ****** since my help was the customer.

Hoffman A15R126 Screw-Cover, Type 3R, 15" x 12" x 6", Steel | OneSource Distributors

Drip-Shield Screw-Cover, Type 3R is used as a wiring or junction box to protect controls in outdoor applications that require protection from rain, sleet, snow or dripping water.

www.1sourcedist.com

And...since your using 250, what type of wire is it? If it's URD, it can't be run inside unless it's dual rated for indoor use.

As far as inside, the only part that goes inside is through the 12" pipe going straight into the CB box. I haven't ordered the wire yet, but I was planing.

250 MCM XHHW-2 Aluminum Building Wire

4/0 XHHW-2 Aluminum Building Wire Ground

 

[sparky 1971]

As far as inside, the only part that goes inside is through the 12" pipe going straight into the CB box. I haven't ordered the wire yet, but I was planing.

250 MCM XHHW-2 Aluminum Building Wire

4/0 XHHW-2 Aluminum Building Wire Ground

You can downsize the neutral to a 3/0 and use a #4 for the ground. There's no sense working harder than you have to.

 

[600SL]

SLB = Short Line Box. As Sparky and Bert stated, SLBs ****! I hate using SLBs, but sometimes you just don't have the working room for a regular LB.

LBs do look nicer for service entrance for sub panels on sub buildings, but as Bert and Sparky brought up, you will likely hate yourself less if you use a 3R rated enclosure when you go to pull in conductors and get conductors to fit in.

I would also check with your AHJ / inspector if you plan on getting it inspected. I have been called out for not having a bonding bushing on the conduit from the feeders. They are standard for any feeders where flex are used, but I have been called out and told that they want to see them on feeder conduits as well, even when the steel conduit, ******, etc. are clearly bonded by the locknuts. Just something to keep in mind.

So it doesn't mean Service Line Box. And I can use the cheaper regular LB. Not too concerned with pulling because I can pull the wire and install the LB over the last 2' after its pulled.

 

[600SL]

You can downsize the neutral to a 3/0 and use a #4 for the ground. There's no sense working harder than you have to.

Sounds good. the 250 was up sized from 4/0 due to length, So I guess I really want to down size the neutral from 250. Would that be a 4/0 or 3/0? Same with ground, for 250' run should that be #4 or #3? Also XHHW-2 is that the correct wire? It cheaper that THHN-2 in that size.

Thanks

 

[mike93lx]

Xhhw is good. It's allowed indoors as well as outdoors and underground, requiring conduit everywhere.

 

[sparky 1971]

Sounds good. the 250 was up sized from 4/0 due to length, So I guess I really want to down size the neutral from 250. Would that be a 4/0 or 3/0? Same with ground, for 250' run should that be #4 or #3? Also XHHW-2 is that the correct wire? It cheaper that THHN-2 in that size.

Thanks

You can use a 3/0 for the neutral, 4/0 if you want to and the ground can be a #4, #3 if you want to. And yes, XHHW is the way to go.

 

[sparky 1971]

Sounds good. the 250 was up sized from 4/0 due to length, So I guess I really want to down size the neutral from 250. Would that be a 4/0 or 3/0? Same with ground, for 250' run should that be #4 or #3? Also XHHW-2 is that the correct wire? It cheaper that THHN-2 in that size.

Thanks

Is there a disconnect/main breaker at the house for this feeder or are you planning on running straight off the lugs in the meter socket?

 

[600SL]

You can use a 3/0 for the neutral, 4/0 if you want to and the ground can be a #4, #3 if you want to. And yes, XHHW is the way to go.

Thanks you saved me some $ching$

 

[sparky 1971]

Thanks you saved me some $ching$

You can save more by using 2". It will fit.

 

[600SL]

You can save more by using 2". It will fit.

Well it may have but its already in the ground.

 

[nadogail]

SLB's have their advantages and their place in the world, if you have room for a full size LB that may be your better choice.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

200a for a garage? geez what are you running in there? bet thats way overkill

 

[600SL]

200a for a garage? geez what are you running in there? bet that's way overkill

Heat pump, welders, machine tools, air compressors. I really could use 400Amp 3 phase.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Heat pump, welders, machine tools, air compressors. I really could use 400Amp 3 phase.

is this a one man shop?

 

[600SL]

is this a one man shop?

Yes it is. But if the heat pump is on and the compressor cycles while I'm welding it could be a problem with 100 amp service, especially if E heat is on.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes it is. But if the heat pump is on and the compressor cycles while I'm welding it could be a problem with 100 amp service, especially if E heat is on.

heat pump uses all of what? 20a? whats the HP rating on your compressor? what model welder do you have?

 

[mike93lx]

heat pump uses all of what? 20a? whats the HP rating on your compressor? what model welder do you have?

I assumed he meant backup heat strips, but even that, I still can't picture a need for 400a.

Maybe it's a huge welder and a 7.5hp compressor

 

[bronc076]

Is there a disconnect/main breaker at the house for this feeder or are you planning on running straight off the lugs in the meter socket?

Is it okay to run from the lugs on the meter to a detached garage?

 

[sparky 1971]

No.you need to have over current protection within 25 feet of the meter setting.

 

[600SL]

heat pump uses all of what? 20a? whats the HP rating on your compressor? what model welder do you have?

Heat pump in my last garage was 3.5 ton. If I recall it was on a 30 amp breaker for the HP and 30 for the E-coils. So figure about 50A power for the two of them. My old welder was a Lincoln Square wave 175 on a 115A breaker. That one could draw about 65A max. I have since upgraded to a new inverter welder which only draws about 30A for the same power. But I also have a plasma cutter on an 80 amp circuit. So heat pump and plasma cutter could exceed the load with E-heat on. E-heat for me is likely since I don't keep the shop heated when I'm not in it, so therefore on a cold day when I just get into the shop the E heat will be on. In addition I have to light the place. Also the future for cars is electric so a good capability for charging will be available. For the compressor I would like to get a 7.5 if I can afford it but it probably will be 5HP. I am also looking into CNC machines in the 10 to 15 HP range. Yes I don't need 400 amp but 3 phase would be nice.

I think any new garage built these days should consider future EV capabilities if not for right now.

 

[600SL]

Is it okay to run from the lugs on the meter to a detached garage?

I have to put a 200A CB at the meter.

 

[mike93lx]

Heat pump in my last garage was 3.5 ton. If I recall it was on a 30 amp breaker for the HP and 30 for the E-coils. So figure about 50A power for the two of them. My old welder was a Lincoln Square wave 175 on a 115A breaker. That one could draw about 65A max. I have since upgraded to a new inverter welder which only draws about 30A for the same power. But I also have a plasma cutter on an 80 amp circuit. So heat pump and plasma cutter could exceed the load with E-heat on. E-heat for me is likely since I don't keep the shop heated when I'm not in it, so therefore on a cold day when I just get into the shop the E heat will be on. In addition I have to light the place. Also the future for cars is electric so a good capability for charging will be available. For the compressor I would like to get a 7.5 if I can afford it but it probably will be 5HP. I am also looking into CNC machines in the 10 to 15 HP range. Yes I don't need 400 amp but 3 phase would be nice.

I think any new garage built these days should consider future EV capabilities if not for right now.

Thinking about an ev doesn't mean needing to add 30-50a of capcity, especially to a workshop. Ev's are almost always charged overnight, when shop equipment is unlikely to be in use. You'll just end up spending extra money to oversize the feeder.

 

[sparky 1971]

I have to put a 200A CB at the meter.

Your first post made it seem like you might have been planning on coming right off the meter setting.

 

[600SL]

Thinking about an ev doesn't mean needing to add 30-50a of capcity, especially to a workshop. Ev's are almost always charged overnight, when shop equipment is unlikely to be in use. You'll just end up spending extra money to oversize the feeder.

Not in my shop. I'm sure there are a lot of people on this forum that are in the shop until 3:00AM. I don't think I'm alone on this one.

 

[mike93lx]

Not in my shop. I'm sure there are a lot of people on this forum that are in the shop until 3:00AM. I don't think I'm alone on this one.

Its your money and your shop, absolutely send it.

A ev is also not always charging nor is the full charge rate needed all night, but if you want the overhead, include it for sure.

 

[600SL]

Your first post made it seem like you might have been planning on coming right off the meter setting.

New codes require us to have a CB outside the house as well as to protect the feeder. I'm just hoping I don't have to put in a second CB outside the house for the main house when I upgrade the house to 320A. I get mixed opinions on that as to weather or not the house will be grand fathered. I have a feeling I'm going to need a second CB.

 

[bronc076]

New codes require us to have a CB outside the house as well as to protect the feeder. I'm just hoping I don't have to put in a second CB outside the house for the main house when I upgrade the house to 320A. I get mixed opinions on that as to weather or not the house will be grand fathered. I have a feeling I'm going to need a second CB.

The POCO moved my meter from the back of my house (closed in porch / sunroom) to a pedestal in my neighbor's back yard near the transformer. That pedestal has a 200A breaker in it. This moved the first disconnect so technically by code I should have a ground wire from my panel to that disconnect and remove the bonding screw from my panel. So be careful, else you may need to start running new cables which for me is not an option.

 

[600SL]

Its your money and your shop, absolutely send it.

A ev is also not always charging nor is the full charge rate needed all night, but if you want the overhead, include it for sure.

The cost of up sizing the feeder is peanuts compared to digging the trench and installing the conduit. That was $5500. I had to go 4ft down because a water line is also in there. I only want to do it once.

 

[mike93lx]

The cost of up sizing the feeder is peanuts compared to digging the trench and installing the conduit. That was $5500. I had to go 4ft down because a water line is also in there. I only want to do it once.

I hear you. That's a big chunk of money for sure

 

[600SL]

The POCO moved my meter from the back of my house (closed in porch / sunroom) to a pedestal in my neighbor's back yard near the transformer. That pedestal has a 200A breaker in it. This moved the first disconnect so technically by code I should have a ground wire from my panel to that disconnect and remove the bonding screw from my panel. So be careful, else you may need to start running new cables which for me is not an option.

The electric company was trying to tell me, that I needed to move my meter around to the front of the house for them to install a 320A meter. This way they could bring there trucks up on the driveway. Sure, that would have cost about $50K. So far I got out of it. There will be a ground run in my conduit.