British Tool Manufacturers

[Dave455]

I've read the thread and don't think I came across this brand, Roebuck, apparently established almost 200 years ago:






This set dates from 1984, I recall where I was working when I bought it.

Roebuck is the “house” brand of Buck and Hickman, a long standing British tool distributor.

Traditionally, most of Buck and Hickmans line was good quality, the Roebuck tools were usually the least expensive, but perfectly serviceable.

I‘ve seen a few Roebuck items that were quite nice. I’ve got a tap wrench of theirs that’s lovely, and they used to offer some very nice screwdriver handled hex keys.

 

[esben57]

JENBRO - Jenks brothers - Britool. Tyre lever, seen many Dunlop Renshaw and Melco. First one by this make.

 

[JohnHawk]

TW - Williams SUPERSLIM.
Black finish open end spanners bomb proof. Not pretty or deadly accurate, but you could beat seven shades from them

Very pleased to see the catalogue.

I bought a new Williams socket set in the early eighties, from a company in Croydon Surrey. Unfortunately it was stolen 10 years later. I was browsing on ebay a couple of years ago and saw the same set and bought it;
As you can see, its missing a few components.

Whilst searching for the missing bits I came across a Williams Superslim Torque Wrench



Which I purchased. The interesting thing was, that it wasnt that old. A bit of research revealed that it was produced by Smith Francis Tools who are based in Birmingham;

Smith Francis Tools - Manufacturers of Priory Tools

World class manufactures of Specialist hand tools - Including Priory Tools

www.smithfrancistools.co.uk

They are still manufacturing various tools for the MOD, Railtrack and BT.

 

[DieselSaves]

I was doing some shop cleaning today and found my box of Whitworth spanners. They came, along with a bunch of others, from an old European motors mechanic.

Superslim, Snail, Lister, and Spearpoint. The last two look to be identical.

 

[esben57]

I was doing some shop cleaning today and found my box of Whitworth spanners. They came, along with a bunch of others, from an old European motors mechanic.

Superslim, Snail, Lister, and Spearpoint. The last two look to be identical.

Spears found in motorcycle tool rolls - Norton. Lister for Lister engines, both look similar but shorter than Superslim TW.

 

[f121]

Roebuck is the “house” brand of Buck and Hickman, a long standing British tool distributor.

Traditionally, most of Buck and Hickmans line was good quality, the Roebuck tools were usually the least expensive, but perfectly serviceable.

I‘ve seen a few Roebuck items that were quite nice. I’ve got a tap wrench of theirs that’s lovely, and they used to offer some very nice screwdriver handled hex keys.

Good to know, I’ve seen Roebuck in the past and assumed it was part of Sears & Roebuck, not a British firm. I’ll revisit the box of old manky British tools that I’ve been meaning to sort and see what’s there.

 

[esben57]

Samuel Osborn. Osborn Mushet, Sheffield. Steel founders and engineering tools.
Photo doesn't do the building justice, thought it had some style myself.
See the vid. Pure vandalism.

 

[JohnHawk]

Just to show the depths of my Williams affliction;













Some of the sets are short of a piece or two, so I'm still searching, but as we all know, that leads to more purchases!

I dont suppose anyone has a 1980's catalogue that they could copy a page or two showing the socket sets. Thanks in advance.

 

[esben57]

Just to show the depths of my Williams affliction;













Some of the sets are short of a piece or two, so I'm still searching, but as we all know, that leads to more purchases!

I dont suppose anyone has a 1980's catalogue that they could copy a page or two showing the socket sets. Thanks in advance.

All I have is from a '68 catalogue, probably no use at all. I have a few bits, sockets and spanners including the 7/8" - 15/16" AF for supposedly rare Sunbeam Tiger/Alpine oil cooler.
I know of another TW collector in Devon.

 

[JohnHawk]

@esben57 thanks for that, I had already copied it from one of your previous posts. Its where I got the set numbers from.

 

[Tigger64]

King **** 1/4" metric sockets with accessories and ratchets from various years.




Quite busy tools seeing frequent use.

I have one of the above. Tools never used original tin 'bit' of surface rust. How much are these worth

 

[Pwardy]

@Tigger64 looks like a nice set you have there, a wipe with an oily rag will probably sort the rust. Quite recent in years if it is metric it will be more valuable than A/F or BA. The best way to value a set is to check on eBay and also check the new price on the King **** website.

 

[Pwardy]

King **** 1/4 drive imperial AF pocket socket set:



Probably dates from the late 60s / early 70s. 7/16" socket is an 80s addition. I have squeezed 8mm, 10mm and 13mm sockets in there (not sown). As a result this set sees quite a bit of action; being metric, pocket sized and very easily transported.

 

[Pwardy]

Found this at the bottom of my miscellaneous small tools tray:



It cleaned up well and the blades are sharp and not damaged. I've no idea when I bought it, it is imperial so probably many years ago for a job on a classic mini. Toga tools 7/16" adjustable reamer. A Buck and Hickman brand, made in Sheffield?

 

[Pwardy]

Swinborne metric socket set, 1/2” drive:



Does anybody know why they would supply a 14mm socket but not a 15mm? I don’t think I have ever used a 14mm socket.

 

[littlebean]

I'm looking through these pics thinking it all looks current compared to the kit we have at work

 

[Dave455]

Swinborne metric socket set, 1/2” drive:



Does anybody know why they would supply a 14mm socket but not a 15mm? I don’t think I have ever used a 14mm socket.

14mm was a standard “JIS” size, even when that set was made, so might have reasonably turned up in the U.K. You would use it if you worked on a Japanese vehicle, or machinery.

Mind you, 12mm was also a JIS standard, but they didn’t include that.

There was a short lived British Standard Metric range of sizes. I can’t now remember what the sizes were, but they may have included 14mm, and some British metric sets of that era seemed to assume these sizes would become standard, but they didn’t

No reason to include a 15mm. At the time that was only used on DIN “flange nuts” if memory serves.

15mm now appears in the ANSI (American) Metric standard, but I don’t think that standard even existed when that set was made, and any respectable American gent would have stomped on any centimetre’s he found crawling round his workshop!

15mm turns up now on a few “non standard” things from time to time, but not back then.

Nice usable set though, and good quality, as all the Swinborne was.

 

[esben57]

Picked this up recently EVT1700R torque wrench. No directional arrows and this is in a steel box, only seen cardboard or (much) later plastic. Plain red and not the red /black of early Britool boxes.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

Is there a size reference for BA sizes? I came across some tiny wrenches that are listed as BA 6, BA 4, BA 2, and BA 0.

I'm wondering what they converts to in terms of mm or SAE fractional inches. I like to have a variety of sizes on hand for misshapen or stuck fasteners so if any of these wind up being half-millimeter equivalents, they might be interesting in that role for me.

When I google searched all I found was thread pitches related to the underlying threads the fastener goes into, and I'm curious about the fastener head itself.

 

[timgunn1962]

Wikipedia lists the spanner sizes for British Association threads. "Spanner" is the British English term for "wrench" in American English.

 

[Dave455]

Is there a size reference for BA sizes? I came across some tiny wrenches that are listed as BA 6, BA 4, BA 2, and BA 0.

I'm wondering what they converts to in terms of mm or SAE fractional inches. I like to have a variety of sizes on hand for misshapen or stuck fasteners so if any of these wind up being half-millimeter equivalents, they might be interesting in that role for me.

When I google searched all I found was thread pitches related to the underlying threads the fastener goes into, and I'm curious about the fastener head itself.

Any number!

Here is one!

B.A. sizes are very easy to work with, and you can always work out a size.

Although all the dimensions are specified in inches, they are actually metric threads.

0 BA is 6mm diameter x 1mm pitch.

Every successive size measures .9 of the previous size, so the difference from one size to the next is always sensible.

Nut / bolt head size (across flats) is 1.75 x the thread diameter.

BA wrenches are of course particularly useful for BA fasteners. You will find them on electrical terminals, small mechanical equipment (carbs and fuel pumps), instruments, firearms etc

Although Britain adopted "Unified" threads in the 1950's, the Unified numbered threads were not adopted, so the BA threads are far more common than Whitworth.

You will find far more BA screws than BA nuts though!

 

[oldschoolcraft]

0 BA is 6mm diameter x 1mm pitch.

The table says 0.413 which I think in inches, but if you multiple by 25.4 you get 10.4mm, not 6mm. I'm probably interpreting this wrong!

What I'm trying to figure out, is if I have a 0BA Wrench, what size head metric fastener will it work with. It sounds like you're saying it will work with a 6mm fastener but I dont understand how to get that from the table.

 

[Dave455]

The table says 0.413 which I think in inches, but if you multiple by 25.4 you get 10.4mm, not 6mm. I'm probably interpreting this wrong!

What I'm trying to figure out, is if I have a 0BA Wrench, what size head metric fastener will it work with. It sounds like you're saying it will work with a 6mm fastener but I dont understand how to get that from the table.

The table shows the nut / wrench size.

.413 (yes, inches) is the 0 BA nut size - measured across flats.

Convert .413" (nut size) to mm and you get 10.5. So a 0 BA wrench is half way between a 10mm and 11mm wrench.

The 0BA bolt diameter is .236", or 6mm. Multiply 6mm (bolt diameter) by 1.75 and you get... 10.5

So, a 0 BA (.236" / 6mm) bolt diameter has a 0 BA (.413" / 10.5mm a/f) nut.

Very similar to an M6 ISO Metric bolt using a nut of 10mm across flats.

 

[plewlandsbob]

Is there a size reference for BA sizes? I came across some tiny wrenches that are listed as BA 6, BA 4, BA 2, and BA 0.

I'm wondering what they converts to in terms of mm or SAE fractional inches. I like to have a variety of sizes on hand for misshapen or stuck fasteners so if any of these wind up being half-millimeter equivalents, they might be interesting in that role for me.

When I google searched all I found was thread pitches related to the underlying threads the fastener goes into, and I'm curious about the fastener head itself.

I think this is what you are looking for.

A link to the site, it is on

Convert,compare all Imperial tool,nut,bolt and spanner sizes to metric.

Convert Whitworth,BSF,BA,AF sizes to metric.Wrench,socket,nut and bolt sizes explained.

www.baconsdozen.co.uk

 

[Mr_B]

Anyone know or got old catalogue info on a British wood tool box maker Neslein .
I just picked up a 8 drawer Neslein machinist/engineers box off marketplace, seems like oak and hardwood ply with finger joint drawers and dovetail carcass.
Drawer runners are pressed metal u channels in drawer side groves and cast alloy with a brass roller on box sides .
Rollers all work after a clean, quite nicely made but can't find any info on the Company so no idea on likely age of box
From few pics I seen via google I assume mine likely later made as construction seems differ as does brand logo design, mine has the black logo style.
Will do some pics when got spare 10 minutes .

 

[oldpliers1]

I think this is what you are looking for.

A link to the site, it is on

Convert,compare all Imperial tool,nut,bolt and spanner sizes to metric.

Convert Whitworth,BSF,BA,AF sizes to metric.Wrench,socket,nut and bolt sizes explained.

www.baconsdozen.co.uk

In the late 70s and early eighties we were still using BA nut drivers and tube spanners mostly on metering equipment and earth terminals as they were an industry standard in the sixties and seventies. Great post

 

[Dave455]

Anyone know or got old catalogue info on a British wood tool box maker Neslein .
I just picked up a 8 drawer Neslein machinist/engineers box off marketplace, seems like oak and hardwood ply with finger joint drawers and dovetail carcass.
Drawer runners are pressed metal u channels in drawer side groves and cast alloy with a brass roller on box sides .
Rollers all work after a clean, quite nicely made but can't find any info on the Company so no idea on likely age of box
From few pics I seen via google I assume mine likely later made as construction seems differ as does brand logo design, mine has the black logo style.
Will do some pics when got spare 10 minutes .

No catalogue, and scant other information, but I’ll share what I can.

Don’t know much about Neslein. They were one of several manufacturers offering similar boxes over the years.

They made several different styles including (unusually for a British manufacturer) “American” style boxes with an opening top compartment.

I don’t even know if “Neslain” was the name of the company, or just the “Brand name” that they sold the boxes under. I suspect the latter.

I’ve seen all manner of Neslain boxes over the years - housing medical and photographic equipment, microscope slides - anything and everything, including some quite major installations. The latter have all been in the south of England, perhaps suggesting the company was based there?

Date wise I’ve seen stuff I suspected was pre war and an awful lot that looked post war. The very last Neslein boxes I saw for sale new were in the mid 70’s, both in south of England tool shops. They were not marked “Neslein” but the patterns were unmistakeable.

 

[Mr_B]

No catalogue, and scant other information, but I’ll share what I can.

Don’t know much about Neslein. They were one of several manufacturers offering similar boxes over the years.

They made several different styles including (unusually for a British manufacturer) “American” style boxes with an opening top compartment.

I don’t even know if “Neslain” was the name of the company, or just the “Brand name” that they sold the boxes under. I suspect the latter.

I’ve seen all manner of Neslain boxes over the years - housing medical and photographic equipment, microscope slides - anything and everything, including some quite major installations. The latter have all been in the south of England, perhaps suggesting the company was based there?

Date wise I’ve seen stuff I suspected was pre war and an awful lot that looked post war. The very last Neslein boxes I saw for sale new were in the mid 70’s, both in south of England tool shops. They were not marked “Neslein” but the patterns were unmistakeable.

Thanks Dave .
Really is little documentation floating about on Neslein or the Emir, got a couple of catalogue images of the 8 drawer but that it .
Would of been interested see exactly where making them and some catalogues get idea of production dates .
I got the 8 drawer style without top chest style tray compartment, it has black logo & finger jointed drawers which differs to green/red logo ones I seen that possibly earier ! no range of catalogues get dates/changes though .
Quite impressed with the metal & brass roller drawer slides, drawers are rather small, couple more inches front to back depth wouldn't of hurt lol, good for some metrology devices and old engineers marking out squares rules etc.
Would be good for organising tap and dies that not part of general workshop set .
Could see them getting used for quite a few things besides tools these days lol .
Will hunt some more when got time or get a lead ...

 

[esben57]

Have this Bedford Tools ,Sheffield made, socket set. All there and in very good nick, trying to age it and I am thinking it may be before being taken over by Spear and Jackson. The SJ tins were orange in colour with plastic inserts. Sockets highly chromed but often cracked.
This tin looks similar to 60's Britool in construction. Sockets are AF and BSW and marked SJ. Ratchet is excellent. No finesse but it's a lion tamer.

 

[Dave455]

Thanks Dave .
Really is little documentation floating about on Neslein or the Emir, got a couple of catalogue images of the 8 drawer but that it .
Would of been interested see exactly where making them and some catalogues get idea of production dates .
I got the 8 drawer style without top chest style tray compartment, it has black logo & finger jointed drawers which differs to green/red logo ones I seen that possibly earier ! no range of catalogues get dates/changes though .
Quite impressed with the metal & brass roller drawer slides, drawers are rather small, couple more inches front to back depth wouldn't of hurt lol, good for some metrology devices and old engineers marking out squares rules etc.
Would be good for organising tap and dies that not part of general workshop set .
Could see them getting used for quite a few things besides tools these days lol .
Will hunt some more when got time or get a lead ...

Yes, they are all nice boxes. They don’t suffer from condensation, so ideal for the purpose for which they were designed.

I must admit I find I’m better off storing taps and dies in other boxes, as the weight can get a bit much for draws with wooden bases.

I know Emir quite well, as they were based not far from me.

I did enquire about their engineers tool chests, but they were something they had discontinued some time back. I got the impression they could be persuaded to build some if you gave them a reasonable order.

They made various woodworking tools and some very nice woodworking benches but closed down only a couple of years ago.

 

[Dave455]

Have this Bedford Tools ,Sheffield made, socket set. All there and in very good nick, trying to age it and I am thinking it may be before being taken over by Spear and Jackson. The SJ tins were orange in colour with plastic inserts. Sockets highly chromed but often cracked.
This tin looks similar to 60's Britool in construction. Sockets are AF and BSW and marked SJ. Ratchet is excellent. No finesse but it's a lion tamer.

The Spear and Jackson takeover was mid 70’s if I recall correctly.

I own a set in the later orange / red box that I would date to late 60’s early 70’s. It had the later style of ratchet so I suspect early 70’s.

Your set, if it’s the original colour (which I suspect it is) would predate that, so I think your estimate of 60’s is spot on. That fits with the style of ratchet, and the label!

I always like the smooth flowing style of the Bedford tools (yours have some sharper corners, which again suggests 1960’s) but yes, those ratchets were a bit primitive. They continued supplying them till relatively late.

Bedford had, I believe, a separate range of tools that were designed for aerospace use and produced to an incredibly high standard. I only have a couple of items and they are incredibly good, but I’ve only ever seen 3/8 drive.

The later (better ) 3/8 drive ratchet was based on the aerospace pattern.

 

[Pwardy]

King **** heavy industrial ratchet:



Bought as clearance stock. Has King **** ceased trading?

 

[Pwardy]

It appears King **** the brand and distribution of tools is now owned by an organisation called Toolstream. King **** manufacturing is being relocated, not sure where, there are currently issues with supplies of King **** tools.
Anybody got a better understanding?

 

[matthew]

Acquired a Bedford 3/16x1/4 Whitworth DOE today. Pictured with the other Whitworths from my quite incomplete collection..

 

[drokihazan]

It has become nearly impossible for me to find Land Rover parts anymore with "Made in GB" stamped on them, but I do have a set of King **** whitworth wrenches that have been great quality when I need them.

 

[Dave455]

It has become nearly impossible for me to find Land Rover parts anymore with "Made in GB" stamped on them, but I do have a set of King **** whitworth wrenches that have been great quality when I need them.

The quality of available parts is probably the single biggest issue facing the classic world at present.

A classic enthusiast friend recently rebuilt an Austin Healey suspension, and it was quite frankly awful! One driver simply said “these old things were never that good”.

But my friend had formerly worked for Austin Healey and knew different. He pointed out to the manufacturer that the parts were way out of spec - surfaces that should have been machined to within half a degree were 2 or 3 degrees out, and this was repeated on every critical dimension.

But instead of fixing the issue, the supplier simply offered the parts cheaper. He was genuinely surprised that my friend didn‘t want them at any price.

Therein lies the problem. Too many suppliers incorrectly assume that cost is the overriding factor, and consistently supply parts that are poor quality, out of spec, or simply don’t fit.

There are some decent parts, but you have to know them when you see them, and be prepared to hunt.

 

[drokihazan]

If you're into Land Rovers, genuine NOS parts are always the best whether they come in Land Rover packaging or Bosch/Delphi packaging, but I've had phenomenal success in recent years with "Eurospare" parts. They're made all over the place - China, Taiwan, Germany, Czech Republic, Vietnam, and on rare occasions they have UK stamps on them. They've all been really good though. A big step up from ****** manufacturers like Britpart and Bearmach, which are pretty comparable to buying parts store trash like Dorman in the US. I also have pretty good luck with buying BMW parts that are a cross-fit with certain Land Rover models - for example the 05-09 LR3, 05-09 RRS, and 10-16 LR4 all have a ton of parts in common with similar era BMWs like the M5, so you can shop from BMW suppliers for a lot of it. Eurospare only really makes for JLR that I know of though, I wouldn't have any idea where to start with Austin, MG, TVR, anything like that.

 

[Dave455]

If you're into Land Rovers, genuine NOS parts are always the best whether they come in Land Rover packaging or Bosch/Delphi packaging, but I've had phenomenal success in recent years with "Eurospare" parts. They're made all over the place - China, Taiwan, Germany, Czech Republic, Vietnam, and on rare occasions they have UK stamps on them. They've all been really good though. A big step up from ****** manufacturers like Britpart and Bearmach, which are pretty comparable to buying parts store trash like Dorman in the US. I also have pretty good luck with buying BMW parts that are a cross-fit with certain Land Rover models - for example the 05-09 LR3, 05-09 RRS, and 10-16 LR4 all have a ton of parts in common with similar era BMWs like the M5, so you can shop from BMW suppliers for a lot of it. Eurospare only really makes for JLR that I know of though, I wouldn't have any idea where to start with Austin, MG, TVR, anything like that.

Interesting - thanks.

I’m not big into Landy's, but that may change.

BMW parts generally, seem to be a better level of quality, and if you get “OEM” they seem to be excellent.

But just as a precaution (I have 2 BMW ”Z”s) my stash of OEM parts is considerable…

 

[ranger08]

Bedford tools come up very rarely downunder, i have a set of spanners that were beautifully chromed, picked up this 1/2 socket set and again the chrome is superb

 

[esben57]

Just the box no tools.