ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0

[bugnut]

Mike, appreciate all the pictures and the trip report! Thanks

 

[Johnno]

Mike great pictures and review of your trip as always thanks for sharing. I hope to get out there and just drive around and see it someday. Our hills and mountains here in the northeast are beautiful, but don't think they compare to the greatness of the west.

 

[readhead]

Mike,

I owned a Jeep shop here in Durango in the mid ‘90’s and I can certainly attest to all of your observations. I was the trail leader for Black bear at the Telluride 4x4 tour for several years and it was astonishing how unprepared people were. Back then everything had a carburetor and I had to tell several people that they were not going to be able go on the trail because their ride was already running very fat and we were going up another two thousand feet. Usually the response was “ my mechanic adjusted the carburetor before we left “. My response was “ go get your money back “.

We would warn people to have rain gear and jackets because we could run into any kind of weather. Of course they would be in a top less vehicle in T-shirts complaining about how cold it was when they were getting snowed on in late July.

We still had a great time with some great people. During the Tour we had permission to go east over Black Bear. You get a lot different perspective going east and you actually get to see how that trail got it’s well deserved reputation when you are going up the steps next to Ingram falls with the morning sun in your eyes.

I haven’t been on the trails for several years. These days we go up to Silverton in the fall to see the colors and do some Christmas shopping when the whole town is on sale and have a nice lunch. I used to do a lot of work in and around Silverton when I still had the iron works and I would come up with any excuse to go up and “ check on a job”.

 

[aka Larry]

Vincent, I also wanted to commend you on the fact that you are in fact, doing research.

I have also run across many people who actually ask a lot of questions, and I love answering those that I can answer as I don't know everything. That which I do know or have experience with, I am happy to share.

I have other Jeep specific questions for you for sure, but I know you've got plenty going on already so I didn't want to bug you too much.

About a month ago I hooked on MOOR on YouTube. I have learned of what NOT to do, but most his recoveries see specific to the Utah sand/terrain conditions. He does a lot with his pretty low budget rigs, but he also has a ton of experience. I still can't get past some of the rigs he recovers that are likely a total loss like the $100K Rubicon that was almost submerged. A lot of the stuff he does looks like a lot of fun, but way too risky for a $40K+ rig we are making payment on!

 

[Duker]

Looks like you and the wife had another great adventure Mike!



As you know (I think you knew?) my wife bought a '22 JLUS (3.6L V6) back in back in May. We are new to Jeeps (this our first 4x4) and haven't taken it off-road yet, but I've been trying to at least do some homework on the subject. I went back and watched your video about overheating and why blocking the grill opening with light bars, winch, etc was a bad idea. Now every time I see Jeep with all that stuff in front of the grill I'm always thinking "Mike said don't do that!". I love lights in general, but when we get a new bumper, I plan to heed your warning and not block the grill opening.

My wife and I have been toying with the idea of getting a Jeep and perhaps hitting the trails as we do love the scenery and Mike's pictures only confirm that idea. However, if I am being honest it was the food pictures that nailed the argument!

 

[ntsqd]

The way that I see it is we're all making payments on our vehicles. Some of us are sending those payments to whomever holds the title. Some of use are making payments that fix broken or worn out stuff, or to upgrade stuff (more often than not those are one and the same payment). And some of us are making both payments. That last group I don't understand, but it's their money.

For me, if a month goes by and I haven't had to fix something or had to make a "necessary upgrade" then that's a month where I've been able to skip a payment! Fortunately there have been very, very few months where I've had to make a double payment.

 

[ScepterToad]

Great Trip report Mike! That area interests me greatly and I really would like to hit it next year. We'll see if that happens. I need to figure out how to get the SXS crew in our group up there though. My BIL is pretty convinced that he won't be able to move around in CO on the RZR.

 

[zmotorsports]

Badass pics Mike; it's hard to understand just how amazing the scenery is in that region by pictures alone!

I'm 100% on board with fully prepping a Jeep before going to the Rockies. I bought a CJ7 in anticipation of going this summer (not happening now), but I've been going through everything on it. It was a clean Jeep, but people don't understand the details are what will make/break your trip. My wife doesn't get it as I told her it was clean when I bought it and not a "project"......I didn't say it didn't need a full prep.

We got surrounded by lightning in Cedar City last week racing UTV's. It wasn't cool being the only metal object on a mountain top! I don't usually get too bothered by it, but the day before we barely made it out of a wash in time for a monsoon to roll through. We got back to the RV park/race trailer and the lightning caused 2 forest fires while we were standing there! Luckily, they both self extinguished.

Thanks Ryan. I used to think the same thing when I stumbled across what I thought was a "clean" vehicle. I quickly learned that not many people maintain their vehicles to my liking and even a so-called "clean" vehicle, is only a good starting point and requires a zeroing out in my opinion.

As for the monsoonal rain, anyone who has ever been either caught in or even around a flash flood knows the awesome power of rushing water and gives it space. It is quite a sight and one to be respected. We were caught in Capital Reef NP about 30 years ago when we witnessed a rushing wall of water coming down the dry riverbed and seeing the rocks and trees that it was carrying gave us a whole new perspective on what can happen. After that we became very much more cautious anytime a thunderstorm was nearby and we avoid slot canyons and such. Even a storm 10-miles away can send water rushing down a creek bed causing destruction in its path without raining overhead.

When we go to places like the San Rafael Swell and SW Colorado, we are especially cognitive of these and avoid certain areas and trails until a milder day. It's just not worth the risk.

Mike,
You were making mention of drivetrain/transfer case issues on the Jeeps. Any reason for that to be happening?

Without knowing all of the specifics of the failures we witness on the trail this past week it is hard to say what caused their failures. I can say however, that based on what I see come into my shop, most of the failures are due to lack of maintenance more than anything. Granted there are a few catastrophic failures due to abuse or taking a hard bounce and grabbing traction, but those generally will attach a U-joint or shaft before the transfer case as they are the fusible link. In general, transfer cases are pretty reliable and have few moving and wearing parts compared to say a transmission. That being said, they still have wear points and require lubrication. I feel the lubrication in most transfer cases is even more relevant because they have less capacity than other components of the powertrain. Take for example the NP231 found in many Jeeps, those only have a quart and a half capacity and the NP241's found in most JK's only hold 2-quarts.

The ones that I have worked on that come in for noises, grinding, rattling or complete failures I have found little fluid in them upon draining. When it comes to TC fluid change intervals, I also am much more proactive than even the OEM's recommendations. In the Jeep FSM maintenance guide they recommend transfer case fluid change intervals at 30k miles. I do them about about half that around 15k and 20k max. I service my personal TC in my Jeep every year just before our Colorado trip and it usually has closer to 10k miles on it and still looks great when drained. Probably a little overkill, but you know my saying, "overkill is underrated".

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, I was on 550 north of Durango on Friday, too. Quick trip up to do some tool trading with @readhead
Beautiful country from the highway, imagine how much better the view is from up on top where you were off-roading.

Well hell Scott, we were in the same neck of the woods at the same time then.

Even the scenery along Hwy 550 is spectacular though. It freaks a lot of people out because of not having guardrails, but I tell people you don't drive on the guardrails, you drive on the pavement.

Mike, my parents were teachers so most of their knowledge came from books. If there was a book on pulling a trailer with a passenger car, my father didn't find or read it. Even at 9 I didn't think the hitch Sears installed was very sturdy but I had already been reprimanded for fixing the solenoid switches on the train layout in the basement. Like everyone, I had an opinion and an ******* and neither impressed my father.

On our first trip across the lower 48 that hitch made it from New York to just over the California border. Custom trailer and hitch shop was within sight and they built a super strong hitch and replaced the manual electric brake controller with an adjustable automatic one.

The second crossing of the lower 48 to the east side of the Rockies, went by without incident. The third, which involved driving across the Canadian provinces all the way to Fairbanks, Alaska included 5 flat tires on the dirt section of the Alcan Highway and one blowout on the paved part in Alaska. At least we had 8-ply truck tires on the Olds 98 and carried four spares (three for the car and one for the trailer). I vividly remember Dad making a slight wrong turn that took us down an extremely narrow road. It was supposed to re-join the Alcan highway but the last stretch was a very steep and wet stretch of dirt road. We would make it up to the halfway point and lose traction. A passing pickup truck saw us struggling and pulled over to help. I thought he was going to connect a 300-foot cable or rope and pull us out but all he said was for my mother, brother and I to stand on the tongue of the trailer. We drove out of there like we were on dry pavement.

There wasn't a lot of traffic on the Alcan Highway in 1957 so nobody ever drove past a vehicle in trouble. Or a person for that matter. We picked up a guy whose dark green coveralls were caked with mud. He had backed his bulldozer a few feet off the road and it sank out of sight in the melted permafrost. We took him to the maintenance yard 40 miles down the road.

Yeah, back then people stopped to help people out much more frequently. I was actually quite surprised at how many people just drove past people standing outside their rigs looking at things. Most didn't have a clue what to do but when I saw someone standing there looking their vehicle over I at least stopped and asked if everything was alright. If they waved me on great, at least I stopped to check. Most seemed to have it covered and waved us on but the couple that acted like they didn't know what to do I at least hopped out and tried to assist the best I could, if nothing more than providing them someplace else to look or just offer an extra pair of hands.

On the last day after airing up and hitting the pavement back to camp, I had one minor issue which resulted in pulling off on the highway and having to pop the hood, but no one stopped to see if I was ok. I didn't need any assistance, but I was shocked no one stopped or even slowed down. I had hoped karma would appear to at least give me some faith in mankind, but nope.

As for reading and doing research Bob, I don't understand the lack of research people do with all of the information right at one's fingertips. Back in my early days, as I'm sure you can testify to, if you wanted information about a specific manufacturer's component or repair information about something, it required a phone call and requesting literature, sometimes at a cost, that would come in a week or so via the United States Postal Service to your mailbox. These days most everything is available on the internet so there really should be no excuses, yet people we run across are much more at a knowledge deficit than I've ever seen.

Sounds like you ran into the Solid Axle Summit when you saw all the Land Cruisers. It is a big national event with trucks driving all across the US for that event. Some sweet trucks were out there this year.

It could have been. I don't know what the event or organization was called but I knew that as many of those Land Cruisers we were seeing that it had to be some kind of organized event. There were some newer ones as well as the Lexus twins, but the old ones were the ones I was eyeballing. Several were quite nice and then there were some of course that weren't all that nice.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike,

I owned a Jeep shop here in Durango in the mid ‘90’s and I can certainly attest to all of your observations. I was the trail leader for Black bear at the Telluride 4x4 tour for several years and it was astonishing how unprepared people were. Back then everything had a carburetor and I had to tell several people that they were not going to be able go on the trail because their ride was already running very fat and we were going up another two thousand feet. Usually the response was “ my mechanic adjusted the carburetor before we left “. My response was “ go get your money back “.

We would warn people to have rain gear and jackets because we could run into any kind of weather. Of course they would be in a top less vehicle in T-shirts complaining about how cold it was when they were getting snowed on in late July.

We still had a great time with some great people. During the Tour we had permission to go east over Black Bear. You get a lot different perspective going east and you actually get to see how that trail got it’s well deserved reputation when you are going up the steps next to Ingram falls with the morning sun in your eyes.

I haven’t been on the trails for several years. These days we go up to Silverton in the fall to see the colors and do some Christmas shopping when the whole town is on sale and have a nice lunch. I used to do a lot of work in and around Silverton when I still had the iron works and I would come up with any excuse to go up and “ check on a job”.

Yeah, like you, I cut my teeth on carbureted off-road rigs and that brought a whole other dimension into the formula when planning an off-road trip where altitude comes into the equation. I actually think that reason alone has helped me to be more diligent about planning a build from start to finish.

I too experienced a lot of rigs lined up that really shouldn't have been there from the start. That is actually one of the things I didn't like about hosting the RV/Jeep rallies and gatherings in the San Juan's when the wife and I hosted. I hated having to tell people that either they or their rig wasn't ready for certain trails. People don't like hearing that and I hated being the one to have to tell them. Now I can also say I have enjoyed over the years testing my driving and my Jeep's abilities by tackling certain trails without lockers and certain components that I now have. I think that made me a better driver, spotter and all-around off-road leader under those conditions. However, I don't like doing that as a general rule.

A couple of people in our group have run Black Bear in reverse when the Western Slope Off-Road club closes it down once a year and have said it was fun. I would like to do that at some point; however, Black Bear really isn't my favorite trail these days. I've done it so much that it has lost the feel for me. Kind of like Hell's Revenge in Moab, I hate that trail now because I've done it so many times taking new people out on it that I despise going on it now. I much prefer more scenic and less traffic trails where the people aren't. The wife asked me if we were going to run Black Bear last week and I hadn't even considered it. The last few times it just turned into a parking lot at the top waiting for scared people to go over the waterfall and it really isn't that great of a trail. Kind of boring actually. All that trail and the most scenic view is just coming over the waterfall and looking down over Telluride. Before that and after that it's actually meh.

I have other Jeep specific questions for you for sure, but I know you've got plenty going on already so I didn't want to bug you too much.

About a month ago I hooked on MOOR on YouTube. I have learned of what NOT to do, but most his recoveries see specific to the Utah sand/terrain conditions. He does a lot with his pretty low budget rigs, but he also has a ton of experience. I still can't get past some of the rigs he recovers that are likely a total loss like the $100K Rubicon that was almost submerged. A lot of the stuff he does looks like a lot of fun, but way too risky for a $40K+ rig we are making payment on!

Yeah, he recovers a lot of high dollar rigs that just proves the point that money doesn't buy experience or dependability for that matter. Many of the high end rigs I've seen broken down are owned by clueless people. Not all mind you, many of the higher end builds are also owned by very knowledgeable and great people who have learned over the years as they've stepped from one rig to the next. But there are those that either signed on the dotted line or just came into money and blew it all on a top tier vehicle. Those seem to be the clueless ones more times than not.

We have some great people in our FMCA 4-Wheelers club that have stepped from one rig to the next to the next and now have some very nice and very capable off-road rigs but there are a few newbies that are still learning. There's nothing wrong with learning as none of us were born with this knowledge, but I struggle with those that either won't take the time to learn from other's mistakes or worse, those that think they know everything first trip out.

As for questions Vincent, please don't hesitate to ask. I will be happy to answer any that I can.

 

[PugetDude]

Yeah, like you, I cut my teeth on carbureted off-road rigs and that brought a whole other dimension into the formula when planning an off-road trip where altitude comes into the equation. I actually think that reason alone has helped me to be more diligent about planning a build from start to finish.

I too experienced a lot of rigs lined up that really shouldn't have been there from the start. That is actually one of the things I didn't like about hosting the RV/Jeep rallies and gatherings in the San Juan's when the wife and I hosted. I hated having to tell people that either they or their rig wasn't ready for certain trails. People don't like hearing that and I hated being the one to have to tell them. Now I can also say I have enjoyed over the years testing my driving and my Jeep's abilities by tackling certain trails without lockers and certain components that I now have. I think that made me a better driver, spotter and all-around off-road leader under those conditions. However, I don't like doing that as a general rule.

A couple of people in our group have run Black Bear in reverse when the Western Slope Off-Road club closes it down once a year and have said it was fun. I would like to do that at some point; however, Black Bear really isn't my favorite trail these days. I've done it so much that it has lost the feel for me. Kind of like Hell's Revenge in Moab, I hate that trail now because I've done it so many times taking new people out on it that I despise going on it now. I much prefer more scenic and less traffic trails where the people aren't. The wife asked me if we were going to run Black Bear last week and I hadn't even considered it. The last few times it just turned into a parking lot at the top waiting for scared people to go over the waterfall and it really isn't that great of a trail. Kind of boring actually. All that trail and the most scenic view is just coming over the waterfall and looking down over Telluride. Before that and after that it's actually meh.




Yeah, he recovers a lot of high dollar rigs that just proves the point that money doesn't buy experience or dependability for that matter. Many of the high end rigs I've seen broken down are owned by clueless people. Not all mind you, many of the higher end builds are also owned by very knowledgeable and great people who have learned over the years as they've stepped from one rig to the next. But there are those that either signed on the dotted line or just came into money and blew it all on a top tier vehicle. Those seem to be the clueless ones more times than not.

We have some great people in our FMCA 4-Wheelers club that have stepped from one rig to the next to the next and now have some very nice and very capable off-road rigs but there are a few newbies that are still learning. There's nothing wrong with learning as none of us were born with this knowledge, but I struggle with those that either won't take the time to learn from other's mistakes or worse, those that think they know everything first trip out...

 

[zmotorsports]

My wife and I have been toying with the idea of getting a Jeep and perhaps hitting the trails as we do love the scenery and Mike's pictures only confirm that idea. However, if I am being honest it was the food pictures that nailed the argument!

Yeah, the food is just the icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned. We save up so we can enjoy eating at some of our favorite places on this trip in particular. Several of our other destinations we will cook and eat in the coach but when we go to Ouray/Silverton, South Dakota or San Rafael Swell trips, we budget accordingly for splurging on food.

Great Trip report Mike! That area interests me greatly and I really would like to hit it next year. We'll see if that happens. I need to figure out how to get the SXS crew in our group up there though. My BIL is pretty convinced that he won't be able to move around in CO on the RZR.

Thanks Keith. Having a side by side greatly limits one's exposure to the area for sure. Very seldom do we ever go out onto a trail and come back to the same starting point, hell, most of the time we don't even pop out in the same canyon. South Dakota wheeling is the same as we often times exit a trail system 60-miles away in another canyon or town from where we began. We seldom see any side by sides in the Black Hills area and I'm almost certain it is for that reason.

 

[zmotorsports]

I hope I have covered everyone's questions and thank you very much for the comments.

Although I feel like I have a lot of off-road experience that I have been fortunate enough to develop over the years, I certainly don't know everything. I have also come to the conclusion as of late, that if others choose to plan poorly or hit the trails ill prepared it is not my problem but theirs. In the past I have tried to help where and when I can, however, I have noticed over the past few years in various areas people have become ruder and more entitled which has made it harder to me to be willing to be helpful.

I told the wife that I need to focus on just enjoying ourselves and quit worrying about other's problems. This is why I dropped out of our local Jeep club a couple of years ago, because the newer members acted so entitled and all-knowing upon first buying their off-road toy and when trying to help they didn't want it at the meeting or before a trail run, but as soon as they broke down or did something stupid on a trail run they "expected" me to jump in and bail them out. The first front axle shaft I pulled and got them going after breaking an axle shaft was no big deal. By about the third axle shaft, U-joint and smacked oil pan I tapped out.

The final straw for me was on a trail run to one of our local trails, a guy was trying an obstacle and after about his fifth attempt with getting the Jeep bouncing and lifting tires and me telling him not to bounce or he's going to break something but his ego wouldn't subside, he hammered down and bounced it to where I heard that ugly "ping" sound and I knew he snapped a joint or axle shaft. Sure enough, he had a front joint that hand grenaded.

I ended up digging my tools out, jacked the front end up, removed everything so we could stuff rags into the housing, then put it all together so he could nurse it out of the back country and then I followed them most of the way home while everyone else split and went their separate ways. While I did the work, he sat off to the side eating his lunch and BS'ing with other members, not even watching to see what broke and why or see the carnage and heaven forbid, learn something. Nope, not any interest at all getting his Jeep back mobile again. That was it for me. You can't help those who won't help themselves.

 

[zmotorsports]

Moving on to the next project that I picked up last night with the help of my son.

I have been contemplating getting a yard tractor for a couple of years now. I wanted something older to use as a restoration project that I could also use a bit around the yard. At first I wanted an older John Deere 318 but after the last couple of months I have given up on John Deere.

My son informed me a couple of weeks ago that a co-worker's dad had an old Wheel Horse from the mid-70's. Last night we drove to the gentleman's house, and I ended up coming home with a 1974 Wheel Horse D-180 yard tractor. The price was more than fair and he just wanted it to go to a good home. When he walked out with two packets containing all of the paperwork, manuals and receipts I could have kissed him. The gentleman had to be in his early to mid-80's and a nice as hell guy. He is the second owner and has owned it since about 1978 as he said it was about 4 years old when he purchased it. It also had the Wheel Horse front end blade and tow plow for the 3-point hitch setup.

I don't have the time right now to start on this but the deal was too good to pass up so it will have to wait until I get time to commence the restoration. However, I can already envision what it will look like when done and I hope to get my grandson to help me turn a few bolts and nuts.



I didn't think it all the way through when we arrived as it was sunken in the dirt a bit and not exactly light. We struggled getting it onto the trailer for the ride home and all of that in the middle of a rainstorm.













Thanks for looking.

 

[ScepterToad]

Nice Wheel Horse Mike! I remember cutting grass at my grandparents house on a similar model when I was a kid. Grandpa loved those old Wheel Horse machines.

 

[Jayman17]

I really look forward to your vacation pics Mike, those were awesome as usual. Thanks for posting and glad you enjoyed it.

 

[zmotorsports]

Nice Wheel Horse Mike! I remember cutting grass at my grandparents house on a similar model when I was a kid. Grandpa loved those old Wheel Horse machines.

Thanks Keith. I am becoming much more knowledgeable about them compared to a couple of weeks ago. I spent a lot of our down time during last week's vacation in the evenings researching and reading about them, their history, various models and idocyncracies of the D-180 model in particular. I think I'm ready to tackle this but many I saw on a Wheel Horse forum were "freshened up" and used whereas I plan on taking this down to the frame and building it fully up from there. I don't want to start until I can commit the time it will require so that may not be until winter at the earliest. This was somewhat of an impulse buy and that is not like me. However, for the price I couldn't pass it up and after talking with the gentleman, he pretty much sealed the deal as he was an awesome old guy.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Good find on the tractor, Mike! Be warned, it's a deep rabbit hole .

I spent the last 3 weeks soaking fuel tank in a 30% vinegar solution to send the rust back to its maker, just to have a correct fuel tank on my Massey 8. The redcoat is drying today.

 

[zmotorsports]

I really look forward to your vacation pics Mike, those were awesome as usual. Thanks for posting and glad you enjoyed it.

Thank you and thanks for continuing to follow along.

 

[aka Larry]

While I did the work, he sat off to the side eating his lunch and BS'ing with other members, not even watching to see what broke and why or see the carnage and heaven forbid, learn something. Nope, not any interest at all getting his Jeep back mobile again. That was it for me. You can't help those who won't help themselves.

That would have sealed the deal for me as well. I'm not busting my a$$ on your rig while you don't even lift a finger...unless you're handing me a wad of cash for my troubles.

As for questions Vincent, please don't hesitate to ask. I will be happy to answer any that I can.

Thanks Mike. I'll PM you when I get a chance.

 

[Finallygotit]

Mike, I remember back in the 70's that those Wheel Horse tractors being somewhat bullet proof. I use to go to a dealer in town to pick up supplies for our Lawnboy mower. As I waited for a salesperson, I would drool over those tractors, new and used.

Anxious to see you refurbish this one.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, I remember back in the 70's that those Wheel Horse tractors being somewhat bullet proof. I use to go to a dealer in town to pick up supplies for our Lawnboy mower. As I waited for a salesperson, I would drool over those tractors, new and used.

Anxious to see you refurbish this one.

Thanks Dan. I need to do a good assessment of the hydraulic pump and steering before I get too carried away. But I know someone who has machining capabilities if needs be.

 

[Finallygotit]

Thanks Dan. I need to do a good assessment of the hydraulic pump and steering before I get too carried away. But I know someone who has machining capabilities if needs be.

I am at your disposal sir.

 

[aka Larry]

Anxious to see you refurbish this one.

As am I.

If anyone here has ever wondered what a brand new Wheel Horse D-180 yard tractor looked like back in 1974 ...stay tuned. I'm sure Mike's meticulous restoration will not disappoint!

 

[bigdave_185]

All wonderful posts! Love your trips Mike

I’ll send ya a few good photos from our trip to SD with the kids and not muddy up your thread
It was really enjoyable

 

[zmotorsports]

Last night I was nearly done with mowing the lawn when the clouds rolled in. I got a few sprinkles just as I was finishing up but had to snap a picture of the sky over the shop as I was closing up for the night.




Then the wife and I sat on the deck and watched the lightning show for about an hour. Then that was it, no rain, all blow and no show.

 

[PugetDude]

Last night I was nearly done with mowing the lawn when the clouds rolled in. I got a few sprinkles just as I was finishing up but had to snap a picture of the sky over the shop as I was closing up for the night.




Then the wife and I sat on the deck and watched the lightning show for about an hour. Then that was it, no rain, all blow and no show.

We've been getting the same faux storms here in the AZ White Mountains almost every afternoon for the last month. All show and no go- just a few sprinkles from some pretty ominous clouds.

 

[LXCam]

We've been getting the same faux storms here in the AZ White Mountains almost every afternoon for the last month. All show and no go- just a few sprinkles from some pretty ominous clouds.

We got the whole rolla bolla from last Wednesday thru Sunday. If you guys want I’ll set up a couple fans on the back porch and blow it your way.

I’m sick of dealing with lightening and rain damage right now.

 

[PugetDude]

We got the whole rolla bolla from last Wednesday thru Sunday. If you guys want I’ll set up a couple fans on the back porch and blow it your way.

I’m sick of dealing with lightening and rain damage right now.

Cam, blaming the rain for your leaking windshield is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbor has too many kids.

 

[LXCam]

Cam, blaming the rain for your leaking windshield is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbor has too many kids.

Wellll maybe. Lol

I’m not even bitching about my issues, that can be solved with a new truck. I’ve got major project problems up here at criminal justice. It’s bad, really bad.

 

[losdudes]

Continuing on with our trip.


The next day we took Last Dollar Road over to Telluride. I had heard there was the old cabin from the original True Grit movie with John Wayne (1969) on this route so I did some research and found the GPS coordinates and plugged them into our tablet. I turned down a road and the wife was surprised when we found it. I was surprised it was in as good of condition as it was.


There was even a placard on the gate out front.


Then we drove through Telluride (not stopping) and headed up and over Imogene Pass. We stopped at the Tomboy Mine near the top for lunch.


We barely finished with lunch and put the chairs away and flipped the top up when the skies opened up.


As we drove out of the rain it was lightening and threatening rain all around us but the push to the top of Imogene Pass was dry.


I didn't spend too much time outside the Jeep with the lightening going on though.


The next day we wanted to do the Alpine Loop and head over to Lake City via Mineral Creek and Engineer Pass. I shot this picture was we just above the tree line on Engineer Pass looking down into the valley we had just climbed out of.


Top of Engineer Pass.


A smaller waterfall as we neared the town of Lake City.


We didn't take a lunch with us on this trip as we generally like to stop in Lake City for lunch, at least when we have a smaller group with us as it is too difficult with a large group of anything over about 5 couples. The restaurant we like to stop at is quite small. One of the best chicken fried steaks ever though and another meal we look forward to each year.



More to come....

The first time we went over Imogene Pass about 1968, we were in my dad's 57 Dodge Power wagon. Ended up walking the last incline on the Telluride side. Vapor lock was a problem on that truck. Fun times.

 

[XJSuperman]

Moving on to the next project that I picked up last night with the help of my son.

Oh hell yeah, that was the King of the Wheelhorses back at that time! (Ok not quite, as they had the D200 too). Good score Mike. And nearly all of the Wheelhorse attachments from any model will fit as they had a great system "Attachamatic" that was intended to be tool-less and quick. It looks like you said you got the snowplow and chains? and the nice Brinly 3pt plow. I'm assuming that means the 3pt is still intact on the tractor then. Even better. We'll have to find you a snowblower for it. They're out there, trust me.

We've got a B-100 with mowerdeck, and a 520H with deck, blade, rototiller, and aerator. Very solid machines for sure.

 

[zmotorsports]

The first time we went over Imogene Pass about 1968, we were in my dad's 57 Dodge Power wagon. Ended up walking the last incline on the Telluride side. Vapor lock was a problem on that truck. Fun times.

Vapor lock plagued a LOT of carbureted vehicles back in the day.

I started wrenching in the early to mid-80's in jr. high then high school just as fuel injection was coming out among the majority of the manufacturers. Although I had cut my teeth on carburetion on the farm working on small engines, tractors and my parent's vehicles even as early as 10 years old in the late 70's, it wasn't until about 1984 when I was in high school that I started fooling around with fuel injection.

My brother also worked on vehicles for people on the side for extra money and I would help him as much as I could. I remember about the time I was diving deep into automotive repairs in the mid-80's, he actually started backing away due to the increased complexity of fuel injection. I think this is when I started wrenching on people's vehicles on the side at my parent's farm to continue to learn as my brother started shifting away from them. I worked on a lot of my friends from school's parents vehicles in those years and did quite well on the side, although most of that money went towards more tools and having fun.

That being said, the vast majority of the vehicles I worked on were still carburetion as fuel injected vehicles were still pretty new and most people wouldn't trust them to a "young kid" working at his parent's farm earning money on the side. I sharpened my honed my skills on tuning carburetors (as well as distributors) and became pretty well known in the area for making carbureted vehicles perform and run well.

I also read a lot, although there wasn't quite the amount of information available as there is today. I read a lot of FSM (Factory Service Manuals) as well as TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) from various manufacturers. I found most people only read the TSB's pertaining to the vehicle they were working on, at least when they read TSB's. But I found that by reading the TSB's I could actually work backwards in my mind to envision the problem that the TSB was addressing before I even ran across it. Sounds kind of bass-ackwards but in my mind it actually made sense.

I promise I will tie this into the subject of vapor locking. One such TSB that I ran across in the early 80's was from GM and addressed the vapor locking issue on the GM P30/P32 motorhome chassis. These chassis had the fuel tanks mounted anywhere from 12' to 30' behind the engine and relied on the mechanical engine mounted fuel pump to pull the fuel all that distance. It went on to explain the effect that sucking (lowering atmospheric pressure on) a fluid lowers the boiling point. It can sometimes lower it to the point of flashing off (turning into a vapor) before it gets to the carburetor in liquid form.

I remember being about 16 at this time as I just got my driver's license and was talking to my cousin and uncle at their commercial automotive shop just about a mile from my parent's farm. I loved going to their shop when I was younger and picking their brains about things I had read or was working on. They were both so great to share their wisdom with me and bounce things around, even though I was a punk kid at that time.

We were discussing this effect, and my cousin mentioned that they used to mix in some diesel fuel into the gasoline at a ratio of about 16:1 (gasoline:diesel) in their chainsaws when he was younger working for the forest service at high altitude when the saws would vapor lock, and it cured the problem. I tried it shortly after and I'll be damned if it didn't work.

Fast forward to the early 90's and I was married and in my mid-20's by now and the wife and I purchased our first motorhome. It just happened to be a 1984 Travelcraft on the GM P30 chassis with the 7.4 liter (454cid) engine. Upon first purchasing it I set out to zero it out and during the first trip to Yellowstone NP it experienced a vapor locking issue on the drive home. It wasn't severe and worked itself out relatively quick, but that GM TSB flashed back through my mind. Upon arriving home I went to work reconfiguring the fuel delivery system to install a small electric fuel pump as close to the fuel tank at the rear of the coach as I could. It only had about 18-20 inches of line to pull from the tank and then pushed it the 30~ish feet up to the mechanical fuel pump on the engine. That cured my vapor locking issue on the motorhome and after a little "tweaking" of the carburetor I prided myself on that thing starting as quickly as it did.

I remember pulling into fuel stations and shutting the engine down to fuel, which is when everything would get heat soaked and many times propagate vapor locking issues. However, while other people in their gas powered motorhomes would crank and crank for sometimes 20 seconds or longer trying to get gasoline to the carburetor to fire, ours would fire right up within only a few revolutions. I freakin' loved that sound and feeling.

For my daily driver/weekend wheeler truck at the time, I wrapped the fuel lines to protect them from the heat and never experienced any vapor locking issues on any of our off-road adventures to Moab or any other areas for that matter. In my senior year of high school, I bought a wrecked 1984 shortbed Chevy that had the OEM 305 cid/ SM465 for a short while. Shortly after meeting and starting to date my wife, I dropped in a small block 400 cid and converted the manual transmission to a TH400 and NP208 transfer case. I capped the hole in the floor from the shifter and installed a B&M QuickSilver shifter for a short time. It was kinda cool having the auto shifter on the floor and was kind of unique among the crowd I ran with. That thing ran pretty good but just before the wife and I got married in 1989 I took it to the next phase. I had been learning and started to shift my attention away from the heavily modified and in your face look of my truck and thought I'd shift gears to make it more like something that would have rolled off the assembly line.

I built up a mild big block 396 cid, bored .030" over, to bring it to a 402 and for a very short time had the TH400 behind it. However, my boss then, and mentor as I was 19 years old now and just entered the Industrial Maintenance field and was set on a career of wrenching, had me intrigued with automatic transmissions so I built up a 700R4 to withstand the abuse of the big block and had my first overdrive transmission. At this time I also found a tilt steering column from a salvage yard and put replaced the floor mounted shifter with an OEM column shifter. Complete with dash PRNDL and lighting. I also remember going away from chrome valve covers and air filter to OEM steel valve covers and a custom modified OEM air filter. I took two OEM air filters and made a tall dual feed air filter fed from each side just behind the headlights. Exactly like the factory design, only dual. From underneath the truck looked OEM with the exception of the wrapped fuel lines. I never had any issues with vapor locking in that truck either.


That sure brings back some memories from the brain bucket, as that was a long time ago, seems like an eternity ago actually. There are times I wish I still had that truck. Sometimes I even think about finding another and duplicating it but using what I've learned over the past nearly 40 years of wrenching. I wonder what it would be like.....

 

[zmotorsports]

Oh hell yeah, that was the King of the Wheelhorses back at that time! Good score Mike. And nearly all of the Wheelhorse attachments from any model will fit as they had a great system "Attachamatic" that was intended to be tool-less and quick. It looks like you said you got the snowplow and chains? and the nice Brinly 3pt plow. I'm assuming that means the 3pt is still intact on the tractor then. Even better. We'll have to find you a snowblower for it. They're out there, trust me.

We've got a B-100 with mowerdeck, and a 520H with deck, blade, rototiller, and aerator. Very solid machines for sure.

Thank you. I have learned quite a bit about the old Wheel Horse yard tractors over the past couple of weeks. It's been a steep learning curve and the more I learn about them, the more I like them and am pretty excited about the one my son found for me.

At first, I thought I'd add a mower deck to it, however, seeing as how mowing grass can kind of make a mess of machines, I think I will just keep this one for snow removal. I already have a nice Toro ZTR mower so no need to replace it, plus these Wheel Horses don't have the tightest turning radius in the world. It may take the entire back yard to turn it around as is.

Yes, I have the blade attachment and would like to find a snowblower attachment in the future.

I really want to get to work on it right away, however, I have so much other work to do and about a dozen or so side jobs that I have promised out that it will have to wait until I get caught up. I hope sometime over the winter I can at least begin the teardown on it. Until then it will have to sit.

 

[losdudes]

Vapor lock plagued a LOT of carbureted vehicles back in the day.

I started wrenching in the early to mid-80's in jr. high then high school just as fuel injection was coming out among the majority of the manufacturers. Although I had cut my teeth on carburetion on the farm working on small engines, tractors and my parent's vehicles even as early as 10 years old in the late 70's, it wasn't until about 1984 when I was in high school that I started fooling around with fuel injection.

My brother also worked on vehicles for people on the side for extra money and I would help him as much as I could. I remember about the time I was diving deep into automotive repairs in the mid-80's, he actually started backing away due to the increased complexity of fuel injection. I think this is when I started wrenching on people's vehicles on the side at my parent's farm to continue to learn as my brother started shifting away from them. I worked on a lot of my friends from school's parents vehicles in those years and did quite well on the side, although most of that money went towards more tools and having fun.

That being said, the vast majority of the vehicles I worked on were still carburetion as fuel injected vehicles were still pretty new and most people wouldn't trust them to a "young kid" working at his parent's farm earning money on the side. I sharpened my honed my skills on tuning carburetors (as well as distributors) and became pretty well known in the area for making carbureted vehicles perform and run well.

I also read a lot, although there wasn't quite the amount of information available as there is today. I read a lot of FSM (Factory Service Manuals) as well as TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) from various manufacturers. I found most people only read the TSB's pertaining to the vehicle they were working on, at least when they read TSB's. But I found that by reading the TSB's I could actually work backwards in my mind to envision the problem that the TSB was addressing before I even ran across it. Sounds kind of bass-ackwards but in my mind it actually made sense.

I promise I will tie this into the subject of vapor locking. One such TSB that I ran across in the early 80's was from GM and addressed the vapor locking issue on the GM P30/P32 motorhome chassis. These chassis had the fuel tanks mounted anywhere from 12' to 30' behind the engine and relied on the mechanical engine mounted fuel pump to pull the fuel all that distance. It went on to explain the effect that sucking (lowering atmospheric pressure on) a fluid lowers the boiling point. It can sometimes lower it to the point of flashing off (turning into a vapor) before it gets to the carburetor in liquid form.

I remember being about 16 at this time as I just got my driver's license and was talking to my cousin and uncle at their commercial automotive shop just about a mile from my parent's farm. I loved going to their shop when I was younger and picking their brains about things I had read or was working on. They were both so great to share their wisdom with me and bounce things around, even though I was a punk kid at that time.

We were discussing this effect, and my cousin mentioned that they used to mix in some diesel fuel into the gasoline at a ratio of about 16:1 (gasoline:diesel) in their chainsaws when he was younger working for the forest service at high altitude when the saws would vapor lock, and it cured the problem. I tried it shortly after and I'll be damned if it didn't work.

Fast forward to the early 90's and I was married and in my mid-20's by now and the wife and I purchased our first motorhome. It just happened to be a 1984 Travelcraft on the GM P30 chassis with the 7.4 liter (454cid) engine. Upon first purchasing it I set out to zero it out and during the first trip to Yellowstone NP it experienced a vapor locking issue on the drive home. It wasn't severe and worked itself out relatively quick, but that GM TSB flashed back through my mind. Upon arriving home I went to work reconfiguring the fuel delivery system to install a small electric fuel pump as close to the fuel tank at the rear of the coach as I could. It only had about 18-20 inches of line to pull from the tank and then pushed it the 30~ish feet up to the mechanical fuel pump on the engine. That cured my vapor locking issue on the motorhome and after a little "tweaking" of the carburetor I prided myself on that thing starting as quickly as it did.

I remember pulling into fuel stations and shutting the engine down to fuel, which is when everything would get heat soaked and many times propagate vapor locking issues. However, while other people in their gas powered motorhomes would crank and crank for sometimes 20 seconds or longer trying to get gasoline to the carburetor to fire, ours would fire right up within only a few revolutions. I freakin' loved that sound and feeling.

For my daily driver/weekend wheeler truck at the time, I wrapped the fuel lines to protect them from the heat and never experienced any vapor locking issues on any of our off-road adventures to Moab or any other areas for that matter. In my senior year of high school, I bought a wrecked 1984 shortbed Chevy that had the OEM 305 cid/ SM465 for a short while. Shortly after meeting and starting to date my wife, I dropped in a small block 400 cid and converted the manual transmission to a TH400 and NP208 transfer case. I capped the hole in the floor from the shifter and installed a B&M QuickSilver shifter for a short time. It was kinda cool having the auto shifter on the floor and was kind of unique among the crowd I ran with. That thing ran pretty good but just before the wife and I got married in 1989 I took it to the next phase. I had been learning and started to shift my attention away from the heavily modified and in your face look of my truck and thought I'd shift gears to make it more like something that would have rolled off the assembly line.

I built up a mild big block 396 cid, bored .030" over, to bring it to a 402 and for a very short time had the TH400 behind it. However, my boss then, and mentor as I was 19 years old now and just entered the Industrial Maintenance field and was set on a career of wrenching, had me intrigued with automatic transmissions so I built up a 700R4 to withstand the abuse of the big block and had my first overdrive transmission. At this time I also found a tilt steering column from a salvage yard and put replaced the floor mounted shifter with an OEM column shifter. Complete with dash PRNDL and lighting. I also remember going away from chrome valve covers and air filter to OEM steel valve covers and a custom modified OEM air filter. I took two OEM air filters and made a tall dual feed air filter fed from each side just behind the headlights. Exactly like the factory design, only dual. From underneath the truck looked OEM with the exception of the wrapped fuel lines. I never had any issues with vapor locking in that truck either.


That sure brings back some memories from the brain bucket, as that was a long time ago, seems like an eternity ago actually. There are times I wish I still had that truck. Sometimes I even think about finding another and duplicating it but using what I've learned over the past nearly 40 years of wrenching. I wonder what it would be like.....

Sounds like fun. Another short vapor lock story, I lived in the Phoenix area during the 70's and was the proud owner of a 73 Pinto, and a 77 Pinto. Both had the 4 cylinder motor. On weekends we would travel to Flagstaff or Colorado and had vapor lock issues with both as we neared Flagstaff. The fuel line on these engines ran straight up the side of the block, after figuring out what was causing the issue, I spent a couple of hours at a Checker auto in Flag buying and re-routing the fuel line away from the block and to the inner fender on the 73. Worked fine after that.

 

[readhead]

I have a '84 GMC K1500 for sale right now. Might be just what you need to relive your youth.

 

[zmotorsports]

Sounds like fun. Another short vapor lock story, I lived in the Phoenix area during the 70's and was the proud owner of a 73 Pinto, and a 77 Pinto. Both had the 4 cylinder motor. On weekends we would travel to Flagstaff or Colorado and had vapor lock issues with both as we neared Flagstaff. The fuel line on these engines ran straight up the side of the block, after figuring out what was causing the issue, I spent a couple of hours at a Checker auto in Flag buying and re-routing the fuel line away from the block and to the inner fender on the 73. Worked fine after that.

Necessity engineering at its finest, love it. Try explaining vapor locking to someone now and they look at you like you made the term up.

 

[zmotorsports]

My new Deutsch DTM assortment arrived yesterday afternoon.

I had an assortment of DT size #16 Deutsch pins and sockets prior but have the need for some smaller size #20 pins and sockets. I was impressed with the previous assortment that I had ordered from wirecare.com so I turned to them again and they did not disappoint. I created and added the small labels inside the dividers for the two different wire gauge pins and sockets.



I also created a label for both assortments to easily identify between the two sizes I now have.

 

[zmotorsports]

I then moved to outside the shop and house last night. Our home was volunteered for our family reunion this weekend so I spent several hours last night pressure washing the house, shop and fence around the property. I generally perform this cleaning a couple times a year but I've slacked this year and this is only the first thorough cleaning I've had time to do.


The Stihl pressure washer out and hitting the fence then the front porch area.


The fence in the front and down the sidewalk was actually pretty clean so it only needed a quick blast with the pressure washer.


The house garage doors had a light film of dirt and along the top panel a bit of sanding dush from when the garage was finished off. I'm a bit embarrassed it took me so long to clean that off. I kept telling myself when the weather warmed I'd wash them, but time got away from me this year. They sure cleaned up nice now though.


Front of the house completed. Now to head down the length of the attached garage. Although the stucco and brick really weren't that dirty this year. Seems like since the neighbor completed their yard a couple of years ago we don't get nearly the dirt and dust kicked up during a windstorm. So I'm grateful their yard is now done.


Moving back to the deck off the back door of the house which was needing a good washing, then I turned my attention to the shop. The shop was actually pretty clean as well and really didn't need much cleaning.



The fence at the back of our property needed the most attention. I worked my way down the depth of the shop cleaning the brick, stucco and windows then turned my attention to the fence at the south end of the backyard. The neighbor's trees are so close to the fence that they overhang much of the fence, so we end up with bird **** and other debris on that section of fence only. I gave this fence at the south end of the yard the most attention and I was pleased with how it turned out.




Fence completed and turned out great.



Now I just need to edge, trim and mow the lawns and then the yard is ready for about 60-80 people to trample my lawn down.

 

[GeoRoss]

Continuing on.

After leaving Lake City, we took Cinnamon Pass back to Animas Forks then highway 550 back to Ouray.


The next day we did some unscheduled or mapped out exploring and rather than take our lunch we opted to go into Silverton and give the pizza joint another try that we found last year. It didn't disappoint and was just as good as it was last year. Excellent brick over pizza.


The next day we took a trail that I have wanted to do for several years but have been unable to, Stoney Pass. This took off from just outside Silverton and headed east towards Creed. This 38-mile dirt road was awesome and we quickly climbed in altitude and only passed a few people the entire day on this trail.




Just as we found a nice quiet place for lunch a couple of side by sides ripped past us and up until this point we had only seen one other person.


Once we dropped down in altitude the road changed to become more of a dirt highway but still the scenery was spectacular. This is the Rio Grande Reservoir about 10-miles before we hit pavement on highway 149. We ended up popping back out on the highway about mid-point between Creed and Lake City on Hwy. 149.


A few miles down the road we saw a cow and calf moose in this little kettle lake only a mile or so from the pavement. It is hard to see the calf but you can barely see an ear over the rump of the cow. They wouldn't move much to allow for a better picture. Until we drove off that is, then they separated.


Once we hit Hwy 149, rather than air up and take the pavement back, we headed about 25 miles north towards Lake City and ended up taking Cinnamon Pass back over to Animas Forks and then Silverton. As it was getting late in the day we opted to eat dinner in Silverton, especially since the trains had left for the day and the streets weren't as crowded. I was craving a burger and we have had good luck at Handlebars for a burger so we indulged. It was quite noisy as there was a birthday party going on upstairs but the food as well as service was excellent as always.


Friday morning being our last day in the area we splurged and ate breakfast at the campground. The chile verde smothered breakfast burrito was delicious and even the coffee was pretty good.


It was threatening rain on Friday so we stuck to more scenic trails on the last day. Our campsite for the week was great and other than one night earlier in the week, we had great neighbors the entire time. The group next to us for the last couple of nights were from a manufacturer's group and they were very nice. They asked us to join them a couple of nights during their happy hour time and even sat under their pop-up canopies during a thunderstorm one night. Great people.



That concludes our 2024 Ouray trip.

Thanks for looking.

Mike, all the Land Cruisers where at the annual Solid Axle Summit event.

My daughter and I were in the area the week before. I witnessed one of the most selfish/obnoxious things I’ve ever seen. Coming down Engineer down to Ouray we encounter a full-sized double cab long bed Chevy pulling a 25’ ”adventure trailer”. You know how those switch backs are. He was fully hung up on one and would not accept one bit of help. We told him he had about dozen more heading up, but he would turn around.