How to remove broken exhaust manifold bolt

[Burt Shaver]

For a little background, when I was taking the exhaust manifold off the right bank head of a 2016 Ram, 3 bolts broke, 2 were above deck height and this one is about 1/8” below deck height, so not deep at all. I’ve watched a few you tube video’s and originally was going to buy a good punch, some good drill bits and a set of easy outs but then I was warned that things could go wrong and I could damage the aluminum head, so then I got to watching videos about building up the stud with weld, then welding a washer to what I built up, and then weld a nut to the washer. I’ve never done this before and I’m really not much of a welder so I want to make sure I’m not going to destroy this head, if there is much chance at all that I will destroy it, then I will just pay someone to extract it, although as easily as the rest came out, I think it’s going to come out rather easily. I’ve already found a washer that has a center hole smaller than the diameter of the broken stud and a nut, but I’m unsure of a lot of things. Can I do this with flux core? Do I basically lay tack welds on top of each other, cleaning the tack weld in between? Or do I keep a hot puddle and just keep going till it’s slightly above the deck height? If I have a large puddle will it melt the aluminum threads? Or again am I just laying quick little tacks, trying not to let the puddle hit the threads? In one video I watched, it said that the weld would not stick to the aluminum but again just not sure of the finer details. I need some guidance, even if that guidance is don’t do it. I do plan on practising first with one of the broken studs in a vice, and see if I can build that up but…

 

[shaune]

I have done both sides still in the truck with welding to the broken stud and I am NO welder. Flux core will work yes. I used pliers to hold a larger nut over the hole and just zapped away. It took several tries to get it all to hold but the heat helps break the stub from the aluminum. when i did get a good connection the stud and nut wound out real easy. Note though….if this has been done once before and someone installed stainless studs, I could not get a weld to hold and no way was I drilling out stainless. I left one stud out…no leak that I can hear. The left side is harder to access than the right.

 

[Burt Shaver]

I have done both sides still in the truck with welding to the broken stud and I am NO welder. Flux core will work yes. I used pliers to hold a larger nut over the hole and just zapped away. It took several tries to get it all to hold but the heat helps break the stub from the aluminum. when i did get a good connection the stud and nut wound out real easy. Note though….if this has been done once before and someone installed stainless studs, I could not get a weld to hold and no way was I drilling out stainless. I left one stud out…no leak that I can hear. The left side is harder to access than the right.

Thank you, I have the heads out so much easier, although I’m pretty sketched out, worrying about damaging the head. It’s never been molested so it would be the original stud. I’m mainly worried about the puddle melting the threads of the aluminum, not sure if it would or not but that my main worry. I seen in a video I watched where he’s extracting a deep stud and he puts a copper tube in the hole first to protect the threads and then build it up with weld. That idea makes me feel more comfortable with it. Am I just adding a tack and letting it cool and then adding another, cleaning in between or just keep adding without cleaning?

 

[shaune]

I was using gas with my mig so I just kept zapping it. On the bench you will have way more control and should not have nearly the troubles I had. My stuff got red hot but the aluminum head was never damaged in my case.

 

[Burt Shaver]

I was using gas with my mig so I just kept zapping it. On the bench you will have way more control and should not have nearly the troubles I had. My stuff got red hot but the aluminum head was never damaged in my case.

Thank you

 

[Magnum440d100]

I did the weld thing on my 2007 Dakota 3.7 a while back, WITH the engine installed.

I am no welder, and it took me a few tries to get the weld to stick (flux core). But I eventually got it. You are in a much better spot, as the heads are already removed. LUCKY!!!! lol

Another trick is candle wax or crayon. Super heat the area, touch with wax. The wax will be drawn into the threads (like flux/solder). That helps break the connection and lube the threads.


Good luck either way!

 

[Kaizen]

I would not use the weld method on a bolt broke that far down. if its close to flush with the top then yes as you can weld to both the new bolt and the broken stud.
I'd use drill bits and easy outs. Yes you need to drill straight but if you ruin the threads they have spring looking things to fix it. Forget the name but readily availble.
Start with the small one and give it a try. If it does not move drill bigger. Once you remove the center of the bolt you'd be amazed how many come out.
I bought a oxy torch specifically for heating studs on my f150 exhaust manifolds. I also got a few special tools that help grab onto the stud before it breaks.

 

[BurtEggley]

if you have ever broken an easy out trying to get a seized bolt out, it is a real pain. I would soak it with penetrating oil, let it sit a day, hear it up well and then use a small punch to see if it rotates. The fact it broke off low, probably means that it is the threads that are seized. Worse case if a punch does not move it, is pull the head, put it in a drill press to get the perfect angle, and then use larger and larger drill bits until you can tap the remnants out. If you try to drill it in the car, it can be hard to get the right angle. Use a left hand drill bit if you can because that may also spin it out. But penetrating oil first. That means something like PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench, Kroil etc.,. I have had exhaust bolts snap like that and after some penetrating oil. spin out with my fingers. True penetrating oil has chemicals in it that change rust from red rust to black rust. Black rust is a smaller molecule so bolt isn't so wedged in my rust.

 

[partsguy5768]

Weld on it. Don't tack and build it up. (May take a few welds) then Weld a nut on. Very easy I have done a ton of them on and off the rig. No issue broke of below as shown by you. All the naysayers have never done. 2 3 4 broken off on this l.s engine . ( I don't remember as I have done a bunch on different engines) All below the surface. Did in the rig. Easy easy. Remember you are welding on dissimilar metals no issue. One can do the same on cast iron.

 

[bornbadbob]

Patience is the key here, I have used both welding methods, tacks pwork best on smaller studs while continuous welding works for larger one. Watch the temp of the aluminum head and stop before real damage occurs to the head. Odds are you’re going to at least run a thread chaser into all the holes anyway but be careful welding

 

[Metal-Marc]

I was warned that things could go wrong and I could damage the aluminum head

I’m really not much of a welder so I want to make sure I’m not going to destroy this head

if there is much chance at all that I will destroy it, then I will just pay someone to extract it

A friend has a milling machine. He drilled a broken bolt for me once. It only took a few minutes to center the part and effortlessly drill the broken bolt out. Easy peasy.

 

[BillK]

Burt,

Where are you located ? See if there is a machine shop near you that has an EDM machine for removing broken bolts and taps etc. That is by far the easiest way.

That being said ........ I probably see 5 or six of these every week in cylinder heads brought to me for work. Almost every Hemi and LS head I see has at least one broken stud. One of two things is going to happen. Either they will come right out or you will have to drill them out completely and put helicoils in.

The first thing I do is drill a 1/8" hole about 1/4" deep right in the center. Then I take a Snap On T-20 Torx bit and hammer it into the hole with a small hammer. About 70% of the time they will come right out using that as an E-Z out. The nice thing using the Torx bit instead of an EZ (?) Out is that you can turn the bolt both directions once it starts to move. Sometimes you have to work it back and forth a little to get it to clean up the threads and come out. They make straight spline EZ-outs but I have the Torx bit and it has always worked for me.

I use Deep Creep penetrating lube.

If that doesnt get it out then I just drill it out completely and put a HeliCoil in it. I do have the advantage of being able to do it in my cylinder head machine which is like a large drill press and makes it easy.

As far as welding goes it is hit and miss to the point that I dont even try any more. If you weld on it and it doesn't work then you have to try and drill through the hard weld material.

One last thing. Dont cheap out on the bolts. Get them from the dealer.

 

[Metal-Marc]

One last thing. Dont cheap out on the bolts. Get them from the dealer.

... and use anti-seize.

 

[budget76]

ditto to everyone saying welding will be fine. I had to do 5 on my GM LS heads of varying depth. The heat of the weld itself helps crack the joint loose, so you don't need a crazy good conenction

one or two took a couple of tries, but it was fine. Center the weld the best you can. you'll be fine

the absolute absolute worst case is you wind up drilling and tapping it one size larger if you somehow mangle the threads, which is doubtful. having broken off easy-outs in the past, they scare me and I avoid at all costs nowadays

 

[DGersic]

The first thing I do is drill a 1/8" hole about 1/4" deep right in the center. Then I take a Snap On T-20 Torx bit and hammer it into the hole with a small hammer. About 70% of the time they will come right out using that as an E-Z out. The nice thing using the Torx bit instead of an EZ (?) Out is that you can turn the bolt both directions once it starts to move. Sometimes you have to work it back and forth a little to get it to clean up the threads and come out. They make straight spline EZ-outs but I have the Torx bit and it has always worked for me.

I like this idea. The T20 is less likely to break from torque abuse, unlike the usual hard and brittle EZ Outs.

 

[Burt Shaver]

Weld on it. Don't tack and build it up. (May take a few welds) then Weld a nut on. Very easy I have done a ton of them on and off the rig. No issue broke of below as shown by you. All the naysayers have never done. 2 3 4 broken off on this l.s engine . ( I don't remember as I have done a bunch on different engines) All below the surface. Did in the rig. Easy easy. Remember you are welding on dissimilar metals no issue. One can do the same on cast iron.

It sounds to me like there is less of chance of damaging the head with welding than using an extraction tool, I’ve seen many posts of extraction tools breaking off but I haven’t seen a post yet that said they damaged it using the weld technique. Now I only have flux core, Mig Pak 140, set up for gas but I have no gas and have never used it. Sound to me like the puddle won’t melt the aluminum threads? I was thinking of maybe just welding a smaller diameter bolt to it instead of building up the 1/8”, washer, then nut?

 

[Burt Shaver]

ditto to everyone saying welding will be fine. I had to do 5 on my GM LS heads of varying depth. The heat of the weld itself helps crack the joint loose, so you don't need a crazy good conenction

one or two took a couple of tries, but it was fine. Center the weld the best you can. you'll be fine

the absolute absolute worst case is you wind up drilling and tapping it one size larger if you somehow mangle the threads, which is doubtful. having broken off easy-outs in the past, they scare me and I avoid at all costs nowadays

I’ve never done one but just from doing some research the easy outs scare me to.

 

[DGersic]

It sounds to me like there is less of chance of damaging the head with welding than using an extraction tool, I’ve seen many posts of extraction tools breaking off but I haven’t seen a post yet that said they damaged it using the weld technique. Now I only have flux core, Mig Pak 140, set up for gas but I have no gas and have never used it. Sound to me like the puddle won’t melt the aluminum threads? I was thinking of maybe just welding a smaller diameter bolt to it instead of building up the 1/8”, washer, then nut?

If you have flux core, you don’t need gas.

I get it, I’d hesitate too, but I think in this case I’d say go for it. Get a washer and a nut and weld it.

The puddle won’t melt the aluminum. Maybe the top-most thread, but all of what’s holding the stud now has way too much heat sink to be affected.

 

[DGersic]

I’ve never done one but just from doing some research the easy outs scare me to.

I have drilled out a broken EZ Out. In the car, with just a basic drill, in the parking lot of my first apartment. That sucked hard. There’s no sound in the world like the *snap* of an EZ Out breaking off.

 

[partsguy5768]

If the bolt was broken off when you got to it vs broke when trying to take out

It sounds to me like there is less of chance of damaging the head with welding than using an extraction tool, I’ve seen many posts of extraction tools breaking off but I haven’t seen a post yet that said they damaged it using the weld technique. Now I only have flux core, Mig Pak 140, set up for gas but I have no gas and have never used it. Sound to me like the puddle won’t melt the aluminum threads? I was thinking of maybe just welding a smaller diameter bolt to it instead of building up the 1/8”, washer, then nut?

Use something close to the same size nut wise. Put a good weld on it. ( don't kill it) sometimes it takes a few welds to build up. If it breaks off weld it back on again. I have always gotten them out of aluminum with zero issues. I owed a auto parts and full machine shop for years.( I was not the machinist my brother was.) My brother removed many many broken bolts studs etc. Welding on was his go to for aluminum and used many other times depending on what was going on. He was well versed in drlling tapping heat etc and thread repair. ( heli coils ect) the vast majority of stuff brought to him the customer had attempted to fix and the number one issue was a broken off tap. The second reason was drilled off center wrecking the threads requiring a heli coil ( or similar product to fix) do a couple of practice welds on the bench with a nut on the bench to get your heat correct ( a bit hotter is better) and get yer done. You will be fine.

 

[Metal-Marc]

I have drilled out a broken EZ Out. In the car, with just a basic drill, in the parking lot of my first apartment. That sucked hard. There’s no sound in the world like the *snap* of an EZ Out breaking off.

Yeah, never use an EZ Out. They should change the name to PITA Out.

 

[ToolsRCool]

Just pulled 3 broken bolts out of the aluminum heads off my 5.3L daily driven LS with 306,500 miles on it. Spray choke cleaner all over to clean all the grease and oil off. Put a nut over the hole. Use a MiG welder to do zaps of building it up to weld to the nut. Spray a mix of ATF and acetone into the threads while hot, then it will walk right out with an end wrench. I did 3, and each took less than 60 seconds total. Threads stayed perfect. It is mostly the intense heat of MiG welding that will break the bond which has the bolt seized into the head. And then with it warm, it soaks the ATF/acetone mix right into the threads.

A lot of people are really using the crayon trick lately, I still have yet to try it.

 

[Kaizen]

It sounds to me like there is less of chance of damaging the head with welding than using an extraction tool, I’ve seen many posts of extraction tools breaking off but I haven’t seen a post yet that said they damaged it using the weld technique. Now I only have flux core, Mig Pak 140, set up for gas but I have no gas and have never used it. Sound to me like the puddle won’t melt the aluminum threads? I was thinking of maybe just welding a smaller diameter bolt to it instead of building up the 1/8”, washer, then nut?

This is why I advised you drill......no welding experience. Flux core will work but you can easily damage with too much heat. Maybe get some steel and practice ten times before real thing. I can weld well and still would try drilling and heat with that many threads showing. Its all a **** shoot with no gaurentees on either way. We have all had bolts we remember for life.

 

[partsguy5768]

This is why I advised you drill......no welding experience. Flux core will work but you can easily damage with too much heat. Maybe get some steel and practice ten times before real thing. I can weld well and still would try drilling and heat with that many threads showing. Its all a **** shoot with no gaurentees on either way. We have all had bolts we remember for life.

Curious have you ever did the weld method? No offense but it appears no as it would be very hard to weld long enough to have heat damage. Most if not all in my experience that have reservations have never used this method. Can one screw things up welding? I'm sure. Can one screw things up drilling? Number one reason it ended up in our machine shop needed us to fix. Clean it.( carb clean etc) hold the nut with a vice grip or whatever. Line your welder tip up and put a good weld on it. Not a tiny little blip used on sheet metal. Apply wrench and wipe grin of ones face as it turns out o so easy.. it takes maybe 30 seconds to do if no experience about a minute. Ultimately one needs to do what one is comfortable with. Take care.

 

[Burt Shaver]

Curious have you ever did the weld method? No offense but it appears no as it would be very hard to weld long enough to have heat damage. Most if not all in my experience that have reservations have never used this method. Can one screw things up welding? I'm sure. Can one screw things up drilling? Number one reason it ended up in our machine shop needed us to fix. Clean it.( carb clean etc) hold the nut with a vice grip or whatever. Line your welder tip up and put a good weld on it. Not a tiny little blip used on sheet metal. Apply wrench and wipe grin of ones face as it turns out o so easy.. it takes maybe 30 seconds to do if no experience about a minute. Ultimately one needs to do what one is comfortable with. Take care.

I can say having used neither the welding method or an extractor that I feel more comfortable trying the welding method. After getting feedback from here and watching video’s I’ve seen that it’s the heat from the welding that really helps them come out. I’ve seen numerous posts stating that trouble ensued after trying the easy out method. I have no time today or tomorrow but I will make my decision Sunday after trying to build up one of the old broken studs in my vice and will go from there. My thinking is, that as long as I keep the wire centered on the broken stud, clean things up good first, grind the zinc coating off the washer first etc, there’s not to much that can go horribly wrong. I think one of my biggest concerns with welding at this point is the spatter from the flux core, but I plan on covering the mating surfaces of the head with some old flat stock before welding. I have a metal brake so I can quickly put a bend in the metal so it stays nicely in place, maybe even take the time snips and cut a little hole where the broken stud is so splatter shouldn’t be an issue. Either way, I will post my results/decision.

 

[Burt Shaver]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply

 

[Jazz1]

Since the head is off a machine shop would not charge much for removal. Any i have done were weld method,,,you dont want to break an easy out in the head. You are correct it’s the heat that breaks the stud free.
I saw broken stud removed once with a reverse bit,,obviously the stud had broken free at the same time the stud broke..not everyone would be so lucky,,sure as heck not me..

 

[6869704X4]

Left hand drill bits are your friend

 

[partsguy5768]

Left hand drill bits are your friend

Yes they are. My little friend. A welder is my big friend.

 

[Jswain]

Since buying a welder I rarely drill out bolts anymore.

Clean the broken piece to shiny metal. Set the welder up nice and hot. Keep the ground close & on clean metal. Weld continuously until you're above the surface slightly, stop & clean while still hot. Set a thick, clean washer(clean the zinc off) with a similar sized hole, centered on top of the newly welded stud. Weld to that. Stop and clean while still hot. Set a nut on top of the washer and weld on that from the inside.

Let it cool & wrench it out. You can try spraying it with penetrating lube while hot to wick it in. Sometimes(more often then not) it will take multiple attempts. If the nut keeps breaking from the washer then weld around the outside of it too.

 

[tom86951]

I use 3D-printed drill jigs with a McMaster drill bushing for those situations. EZ-outs can snap and create a bigger problem. Welding can work, but you can screw things up quickly if not experienced and some bolts will crumble apart below the weld anyway. With a good jig, there's not really risk to the head.

 

[partsguy5768]

I use 3D-printed drill jigs with a McMaster drill bushing for those situations. EZ-outs can snap and create a bigger problem. Welding can work, but you can screw things up quickly if not experienced and some bolts will crumble apart below the weld anyway. With a good jig, there's not really risk to the head.

 

[partsguy5768]

Nice video. For me personally I perfer to spend a minute with a welder vs hours with that method.

 

[beltfeed]

5.7 engine ?

https://www.amazon.com/Exhaust-Manifold-Template-Removal-Cylinder/dp/B0BTBWYSYQ?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[csp]

You're not going to get anything hot enough with a Mig pak 140 to do any damage.

You're smart to weld the flat washer in first since there is some distance between the surface and the stud.

 

[housewolf]

Left hand drill bits are your friend

Yes they are. I don’t run across a lot of broken bolts but LH bits are my go to. Every time I’ve used one (maybe six?) the bolt came out while drilling. I did an oil pan plug recently

 

[Kaizen]

Curious have you ever did the weld method? No offense but it appears no as it would be very hard to weld long enough to have heat damage. Most if not all in my experience that have reservations have never used this method. Can one screw things up welding? I'm sure. Can one screw things up drilling? Number one reason it ended up in our machine shop needed us to fix. Clean it.( carb clean etc) hold the nut with a vice grip or whatever. Line your welder tip up and put a good weld on it. Not a tiny little blip used on sheet metal. Apply wrench and wipe grin of ones face as it turns out o so easy.. it takes maybe 30 seconds to do if no experience about a minute. Ultimately one needs to do what one is comfortable with. Take care.

Yea. I don't weigh in on things I have not personally done. It has its place. Flush or above surface its my go to method. OP has no welding experience and using a flux core welder with exposed aluminum threads. Telling him there is zero chance if f's them up on his own is not what i would do. Ya'll want to thats fine. Maybe he'll be fine and if he's not i'm sure you will help him out.

 

[partsguy5768]

Yea. I don't weigh in on things I have not personally done. It has its place. Flush or above surface its my go to method. OP has no welding experience and using a flux core welder with exposed aluminum threads. Telling him there is zero chance if f's them up on his own is not what i would do. Ya'll want to thats fine. Maybe he'll be fine and if he's not i'm sure you will help him out.

I never said anything about zero chance of messing things up....but the vast majority by a long shot ( being in the autoparts and machine shop business for years) of screwed up threads in my experience has been fixing customers drill out methods...you have your methods and advice based on experience and I have mine based on experience. Its all good and one can make their own decisions. Take care.

 

[no704]

This is why you should break free one bolt and then retighten it, then break free the next and retighten it and repeat until all have been broken free then loosing them similar to a torque sequence.
Take them all out the last one will alwas break.

Especially on exhaust manifolds.

 

[PCustoms]

This is why you should break free one bolt and then retighten it, then break free the next and retighten it and repeat until all have been broken free then loosing them similar to a torque sequence.
Take them all out the last one will alwas break.

Especially on exhaust manifolds.

OP says 3 bolts broke, how does your logic apply?