Shocked by bit socket prices

[rust in the eye]

You all know who I'm talking about. I'll also need a T60 to match my current set so north of five hundred bones for perhaps a pound of steel.
I have an opportunity to buy some product at significant discount but even with that I have a real hard time seeing the value.
I'm NOT making this thread to stir the pot and I understand the concept of diminishing returns.
What is considered next best and how wide is the price gulf?

 

[zendriver]

That's not the cost, what's what they charge - because they can.

The "value" in the eye of the beholder, apparently not yours's

 

[L.Cheapo]

Those were on BOGO last month. If you bought that set you got a decent sized set of metric or SAE bit sockets free. A bit less painful.

 

[four.cycle]

You sure you're looking at the right set? I'm showing $472 here.

 

[vwpieces]

Guess in another 10min they will be $500

 

[rust in the eye]

Looking for best alternate here.

 

[PCustoms]

You all know who I'm talking about. I'll also need a T60 to match my current set so north of five hundred bones for perhaps a pound of steel.
I have an opportunity to buy some product at significant discount but even with that I have a real hard time seeing the value.
I'm NOT making this thread to stir the pot and I understand the concept of diminishing returns.
What is considered next best and how wide is the price gulf?

Seems all this will do is stir the pot....

You need a single T60?

What drive?

Impact?

https://a.co/d/bP1VSX8

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Snap on HD torx are only 350, what are you buying for $460? Gripedge is sub 200 right?

 

[nicks78camaro]

Also curious what's happening here and if you have a current set what's wrong with it?

 

[rooster59]

dont forget torx plus

 

[rust in the eye]

website showed set 212ftxy @ $459, the T60 is another $56, so $515 retail
I thought I'd treat myself and replace my mismatched ones but even with a discount I just don't see it.
Many here have testified they are no doubt top quality. I'll settle for second place so looking for some recommendations. Prefer to support USA manufacturers but ultimately will go with best value.
Perhaps I should just buy a few singles for the ones that give me the most grief.

 

[PCustoms]

 

[rust in the eye]

Also curious what's happening here and if you have a current set what's wrong with it?

Nothing "wrong" other than mismatched which doesn't much bother me. Mostly inexpensive ones that have served ~well.
I'm gonna change the thread title as soon as I have edits available

 

[Wrench97]

Funny first time I've seen any Snap On listed on Amazon.

Amazon.com

 

[Dave455]

I assume we’re talking bit sockets?

I’ve always thought these things were expensive. Always seemed to cost more than the sum of the parts.

One reason is profit.

Another is warranty. You’re not just paying for “warranty”, but rather a lifetimes supply of bits for the most ham fisted user. And these things get twisted easily. Perhaps that’s why the bit sockets are such a premium?

Alternatives?

Bondhus? Don’t own any myself, but own other Bondhus tools and they’re excellent.

Hazet? Probably about the best finished. And tough too. I saw a member here refer to them as “boutique” tools. Well, it probably depends where you are. Bit sockets are about 1/4 of the cost of the O.P’s where I am, and even shipping won’t bring the cost comparable.


Stahlwille? Not quite as nicely finished as the Hazet but equally tough. A frac cheaper too, in most cases.


KoKen? As tough as the others, but nicer finished than the Stahlwille and comparable cost. Maybe even less direct from Japan? Lovely to use, I like the bold stamped size markings, and the ready availability of (inexpensive) replacement bits. Pretty much my “go to” now.


Wera? The cheapest of the lot. These are not quite as tough as the others shown, and I don’t like the lasered markings, but depending on what you are doing, they can be fine. I’ve got T20, 25, and 30 in 1/4 drive that have done nothing but remove / replace trim screws, and they’re great.

 

[rust in the eye]

12 pc Combination Drive TORX® Bit Standard Socket Set (T8-T25, T27-T55, T47)​

• Item
• 212EFTXY
• Price
• $459.00

Item available in stock
1
SHARE
ADD TO CARTADD TO WISHLIST

Features​

• Includes 1/4" drive TORX® drivers T8-T25 (TTX8E-TTX25E), 3/8" drive TORX® drivers T27-T55 (FTX27E-FTX55E) and (1) 3/8" drive FTX47E GM®-style driver in a magnetic storage tray
• High-grade steel for strength and reliability
• Nickel-chrome plating helps protect against corrosion and makes it easy to wipe clean
• Use of a standard TORX® driver on TORX Plus® fasteners may result in a rounded-out fastener head or damaged driver

Specifications​

Country of Origin

USA

SetsSet Members

Warranty​

Mat/Workmanship Snap-on , Blue Point, Consumables, Sets, Service Repair Parts, Private Branded Mfg. by Snap-on & Industrial Specials The item will be Audited at the Replacement Processing Center.

Warnings​

For full warning information see CAT1600 pages W1-W4

 

[PCustoms]

Funny first time I've seen any Snap On listed on Amazon.

Amazon.com

3rd party, 1 off

 

[scooby074]

Wait for the bogo deal to come back?

 

[Wamsutta]

Snap-on has raised their prices to offset revenue lost to Hazet, Stahlwille, and Koken.

 

[FigN⋅m]

3rd party, 1 off

Big Boy Stools

 

[PCustoms]

Big Boy Stools

Edit: affiliate link breaks link to bigboystools storefront

I'm disappointed, I do not see any stools

 

[2ndGearRubber]

12 pc Combination Drive TORX® Bit Standard Socket Set (T8-T25, T27-T55, T47)​

• Item
• 212EFTXY
• Price
• $459.00

Item available in stock
1
SHARE
ADD TO CARTADD TO WISHLIST

Features​

• Includes 1/4" drive TORX® drivers T8-T25 (TTX8E-TTX25E), 3/8" drive TORX® drivers T27-T55 (FTX27E-FTX55E) and (1) 3/8" drive FTX47E GM®-style driver in a magnetic storage tray
• High-grade steel for strength and reliability
• Nickel-chrome plating helps protect against corrosion and makes it easy to wipe clean
• Use of a standard TORX® driver on TORX Plus® fasteners may result in a rounded-out fastener head or damaged driver

Specifications​

Country of Origin

USA

SetsSet Members

Warranty​

Mat/Workmanship Snap-on , Blue Point, Consumables, Sets, Service Repair Parts, Private Branded Mfg. by Snap-on & Industrial Specials The item will be Audited at the Replacement Processing Center.

Warnings​

For full warning information see CAT1600 pages W1-W4

I feel like the HD set plus a T47 would be a better buy. Do you use 10 and 8 very often?

The numbers work out okay for that bit set if you replace every bit several times. You're just buying them upfront. Snap on has worked the best for me in term of normal "bit in socket" type torx bits. Koken was okay but twisted easier, HF and Tekton I demolished quickly. For the stubby single piece style VIM and Astro both worked well. I think the astros are just a little bit taller. Zephyr makes an excellent bit, cheaper than snap on, but they don't have the retaining nub so you need to RTV them into the socket or similar.

Over time as newer options come out, there's things I wish I had bought outside of snap-on. Like if grip-edge metric hex were available a decade ago I would have got those over snap-on. Your plan to replace singles of the most used sizes is probably best. Covers your long term expense in sizes you need, and not ones you don't. My SAE hex bits are Lisle and Sunex, I just don't use them often so why buy something expensive?

 

[four.cycle]

Perhaps I should just buy a few singles for the ones that give me the most grief.

^ this.

When we first pulled the bed off the Ranger, I managed to break FIVE T55 bits. There are only 6 bolts holding the bed down onto the frame. I'm sure the first one I started with was a Great Neck. Don't remember what the other brands I had here that day were, but at least one came from O'Reilly's Auto Parts. None came from Harbor Freight.

I rounded up another half a dozen - all different brands - for the next time we have to pull the bed.

On the smaller sizes, the "Great Neck" set my brother-in-law gave me over 25 years ago has done just dandy. The larger sizes - not so much. (I recall a lot of bad language when my buddy was removing the seat belt bolts.)

 

[Hakeem]

$500 for 13 bit sockets is ludicrous. I suspect much of the Snapon pricing is based on what they think people will pay for it, rather than being based on actual production/service cost.

Getting the Student pricing was an eye opener. All this stuff for 50-60% off, and they’re still making a profit. Which just goes to show how much markup there is when you pay full price.

Here’s a couple screenshots. Interesting to see the huge difference in price between the Bluepoint and the Snapon T60. Seems like less markup on the Bluepoint Import stuff. $270 for 13 bit sockets, made domestically, with comprehensive warranty is arguably “worth it”. Still a lot of money, though.

 

[rust in the eye]

I feel like the HD set plus a T47 would be a better buy. Do you use 10 and 8 very often?

The numbers work out okay for that bit set if you replace every bit several times. You're just buying them upfront. Snap on has worked the best for me in term of normal "bit in socket" type torx bits. Koken was okay but twisted easier, HF and Tekton I demolished quickly. For the stubby single piece style VIM and Astro both worked well. I think the astros are just a little bit taller. Zephyr makes an excellent bit, cheaper than snap on, but they don't have the retaining nub so you need to RTV them into the socket or similar.

Over time as newer options come out, there's things I wish I had bought outside of snap-on. Like if grip-edge metric hex were available a decade ago I would have got those over snap-on. Your plan to replace singles of the most used sizes is probably best. Covers your long term expense in sizes you need, and not ones you don't. My SAE hex bits are Lisle and Sunex, I just don't use them often so why buy something expensive?

Singles as needed is the new/old plan. HD set? T25 or smaller I mostly use hand drivers, this makes the expensive set even harder to swallow.
I had hoped to treat myself to something nice.
Hex sockets are a similar situation for me, I looked at those too and am similarly apalled. They sure are proud of their stuff.
Never heard of Zephyr will investigate. Some Euro brands suggested above that would do fine I'm sure.

 

[rust in the eye]

After the initial shock wore off I became more curious about their business. I have some insight as a friend of mine was a vendor to them for specialty items some of the trucks carried so knew their margins were very high on his tools.
I stumbled on the 475 page contract dealers sign. I only perused it but don't ever recall seeing such a one sided agreement. Perhaps all franchises are this way, this is the only one I've "read". This was a version from more than a decade ago so adjust for inflation, listed were gross sales for dealers which varied widely. The largest segment was selling a tick over $500k annually, only a handful much over $1M. The "must buy, preselected" inventory was around $150k retail costing the dealer roughly $100k so a 33% gross margin if you can manage full retail for every sale. Doing some math and using $500k as a base makes $165k the gross profit. Seeing truck costs and other fees the franchiser collects along with a bunch of limitations on how you can sell and who to (not to mention deadbeats) I have to wonder how it makes sense from the dealer's angle either.
The gulf between top tier and second has narrowed and one can only stand on their laurels for so long. I don't see a bright future for this type of business.

 

[mreisner]

Can find very nice used ones on Marketplace for under 300. Still pricey but better.Student sales are direct and cut out the truck guy, but not the full line can be had that way either.

 

[purplezr2]

Guess in another 10min they will be $500

Set has gone up 22 dollar since 2022 according to my list of tools

I will say I have both this set and the HD set, and I think I may have twisted one of the HD ones once.

I previously had the craftsman set which I would break all the time. Last straw for me was when one of the craftsman ones shattered when torqueing cam caps and debris went in the engine.

 

[jayemm]

Funny first time I've seen any Snap On listed on Amazon.

Amazon.com

Ha-Ha. Looks pretty similar to the Performance Tool (Taiwan made) set that I bought for ~$12 about 25 years ago.

 

[jayemm]

Wonder if the tool truck sell Snap-On brand boxer shorts with a bulls-eye on the back.

 

[rust in the eye]

What is the HD set some are talking about?
Never mind I found 'em. A little less $$ for the HD? WTF is that

 

[liliysdad]

Ha-Ha. Looks pretty similar to the Performance Tool (Taiwan made) set that I bought for ~$12 about 25 years ago.

I am sure they are identical since they look similar.

 

[JradM]

This thread heavily overlaps with the one I started about Torx bit sockets. Not all the way, but still - a lot.

I wanted RBRT-like bits but without the RBRT sticker shock - because they're also hundreds of dollars. I've heard the advice "buy once, cry once", but it doesn't ring true for me either in this context. The prices are outlandish.

Unfortunately, based on the responses I received, I don't believe there is a Torx RBRT alternative in budget form. As I pointed out in that thread - there are lots of hex RBRT alternatives, just not Torx (although the Craftsman V-series T-handles DO have that - just not in bit socket form).

Even though I believe RBRT to be the "best" (and I acknowledge you feel that way about Snap-on), I DON'T believe either merits the premium. That's not disputing their status as the very bestest of bits - but I can believe a McLaren is the ultimate sports car without thinking I need to own one.

In that context, I would look to Proto, Mayhew or Zephyr first - but I don't disagree with some of the other brands mentioned in this thread. Those are companies I trust to have excellent heat-treatment and fit. For that matter, I think there's something to be said for having fresh bit sockets too.

Snap-on or Mac might be the BEST, but it will still be a pretty rare circumstance where they can move a fastener a Proto bit can't.

 

[seber]

I have both Snap-on and Koken. I actually prefer the Koken at less than half the price.

 

[rust in the eye]

Set has gone up 22 dollar since 2022 according to my list of tools

I will say I have both this set and the HD set, and I think I may have twisted one of the HD ones once.

I previously had the craftsman set which I would break all the time. Last straw for me was when one of the craftsman ones shattered when torqueing cam caps and debris went in the engine.

Ouch, ouch, ouch
USA Craftsman or...
I can and do live with twisted, certainly preferable to shrapnel.

 

[finn]

^ this.

When we first pulled the bed off the Ranger, I managed to break FIVE T55 bits. There are only 6 bolts holding the bed down onto the frame. I'm sure the first one I started with was a Great Neck. Don't remember what the other brands I had here that day were, but at least one came from O'Reilly's Auto Parts. None came from Harbor Freight.

I rounded up another half a dozen - all different brands - for the next time we have to pull the bed.

On the smaller sizes, the "Great Neck" set my brother-in-law gave me over 25 years ago has done just dandy. The larger sizes - not so much. (I recall a lot of bad language when my buddy was removing the seat belt bolts.)

After I broke the first bit while removing the Ranger bed, I switched to an angle grinder for any that didn’t spin right out.

Total cost, one bit and maybe 10% of a disc.

 

[zendriver]

By their very design, it would not be surprising if hex torx bit sockets, damaged a lot more often than hex sockets and wrenches

Maybe purchasers are just paying for warranty replacement upfront

 

[2ndGearRubber]

What is the HD set some are talking about?
Never mind I found 'em. A little less $$ for the HD? WTF is that

HD is a somewhat tapered design for an extra tight fit. Less lead in taper on the tip as well. If the head is super rusty you really want to knock them in with a hammer. IIRC there is no HD bit for t47 which is sort of not a "real" torx size but a more torx-plus like profile.

The HD set is giving you 3 less pieces as well. I've had mine for ~10 years. All the bits have been replaced multiple times as torx is garbage and the tooling is easily destroyed.

The problem with Zeyphr and similar aircraft/premium bits are buying channels. They often have minimum quantity and order $$$ requirements. I would buy #3 Phillips bits by the 50, sell a few to coworkers and make 30 cents. I was buying from Omega Technologies and their minimum was $35 a ~5 years ago. I had spotty dealer service at the time and even with good dealers you need backup bits. I'd have a worn out snap on, RTV a new Zeyphr in there, and wait until the dealer could swap the insert bit. That went into the pile of T15s or whatever until the Zeyphr wore out and went into the trash.

 

[four.cycle]

Snapon pricing is based on....

.... how many units their bean-counters anticipated would be replaced under "warranty".

FIFY.

 

[jayemm]

I am sure they are identical since they look similar.

Can't tell if your comment is serious or not but mine was an attempt made in jest. One really wouldn't expect the same metallurgy, finish or tolerances. But no matter how marvelous they're supposed to be I think they're outrageously overpriced.