The 1/4” Square Drive Thread

[HannibalLecter]

Nice!

KoKen quickly discontinued the quick release Z Series / Zeal ratchets in 1/4” drive. Assume there was a problem with them.

Don’t know if they have re introduced them yet.

Yes I am aware and it *****. This I grabbed very early. Pretty pissed with them given the fact they had 5 years to develop them. No, they haven't been reintroduced and with kokens pace we will wait another five years I'm sure

 

[Dave455]

Question: on the locking pin style, how do you release the pin? Do you have to poke it with something? I've never encountered these before. Are they mainly an industrial use thing?

Yes, you have to push something in to release the pin. Must admit I don’t like them much.

And yes, seem to be an industrial thing.

 

[ecotec]

Wobble extensions are one of the most ridiculously useful accessories ever invented.

Many of these are made so that they have a shoulder or taper, and if you push the socket on a bit further, it locks into a second position tight against the shoulder to become essentially a straight extension. Very handy sometimes.


Question: on the locking pin style, how do you release the pin? Do you have to poke it with something? I've never encountered these before. Are they mainly an industrial use thing?

I have a few, and I hate them. Yes, you poke it with a pick or small screwdriver.

I would assume that they are for places where dropping a socket is extra problematic, where tethered tools are required, or for on a tool where you only only ever use one socket. Maybe on an assembly line.

 

[KnurledNut]

I wouldn't touch gedore even with a pole. Uneven finish, monkey grinding marks on wrenches, out of center broaching, their ratchets are agricultural at best, the ratcheting wrenches have an enormous ring.

Didn't buy them, but these problems are documented on this forum. For such premium price they command of course I wouldn't be pleased

To each, his own.
Every company makes some duds. But to throw the baby out with the bathwater is a little shortsighted.

I am quite fond of my little 1/4 drive SAE set. The sockets have good tolerances and all the pieces fit well together. I especially like the ratchet. Low drag, high count, excellent selector. I love the compactness and overall design of the case. And the selection of tools included offers a range of versatility.


I think highly of the K20 1/4 drive impact socket line. Very beautifully made. And yes, that is a 17mm 1/4 drive.


The 620 series bit adaptors are of very good quality and I quite like the 1/4 drive version.

I own other Gedore tools and wouldn't piss on any of them.
Well, I take that back. I might on those Gedore made in India wrenches.

 

[Dave455]

Yes I am aware and it *****. This I grabbed very early. Pretty pissed with them given the fact they had 5 years to develop them. No, they haven't been reintroduced and with kokens pace we will wait another five years I'm sure

I’ve got some of the KoKen regular 1/4” drive but no Z Series / Zeal.

I was going to get some but I think I want a quick release ratchet - in 3/8 I find that the combination of the tighter fit and the shorter sockets makes them harder to remove - and I think that will only be worse in 1/4” drive.

No, they are not the quickest at getting this stuff to market.

Do you know what the problem was with them?

 

[HannibalLecter]

I’ve got some of the KoKen regular 1/4” drive but no Z Series / Zeal.

I was going to get some but I think I want a quick release ratchet - in 3/8 I find that the combination of the tighter fit and the shorter sockets makes them harder to remove - and I think that will only be worse in 1/4” drive.

No, they are not the quickest at getting this stuff to market.

Do you know what the problem was with them?

Yes, I too prefer qr, my 3/8 long is with qr and the regular without. Good luck getting the socket off without qr.
I think they were braking anvils, however I am not sure and I haven't seen one that failed, maybe they caught something up in the r&d department and decided better to be safe than sorry. Mine functions fine though
Edit; they say it was because they performed inconsistently on holding the sockets

 

[Dave455]

Yes, I too prefer qr, my 3/8 long is with qr and the regular without. Good luck getting the socket off without qr.
I think they were braking anvils, however I am not sure and I haven't seen one that failed, maybe they caught something up in the r&d department and decided better to be safe than sorry. Mine functions fine though
Edit; they say it was because they performed inconsistently on holding the sockets

Thanks for that.

I’ve been tempted to order the non QR when I’ve been ordering from Japan, but I think I will wait.

Strange they should function inconsistently. Nepros had a similar issue with their early 3/8 ratchets and it took them an age to sort it.

Not sure why, as in both cases people will predominantly be using matching ratchets and sockets, and the makers control all the variables?

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I definitly reach for a wobble extension at least 100x for each time i worry about that angle.at the top of a socket....

 

[Dave455]

Funny that this thread should drift towards KoKen, because that’s exactly what I did.

Still needing some BA sockets, but unsatisfied with the Gedore, I went KoKen. To be honest, I knew I should have in the first place, but I was swayed by a discount on the Gedore.

At the present time I’ve probably been buying KoKen for probably three decades. In the early days, I thought of it as sort of “mid grade” - better than the Taiwanese of the time, but not up there with European or American tools. This perception was largely because of the price, but the tools were far from mid grade.

When I bought this 1/4” drive I already owned a lot of 3/8” drive, and it was serving me very well. I wasn’t disappointed by the 1/4”.

Some stand out features. The accuracy of the manufacture, vital in 1/4” drive, is superb. Steel quality, heat treatment, strength, finish likewise. The extension knurling is superb, and the general fit of the pieces is above average too.

There are a couple of areas where KoKen are totally outstanding. Firstly, the range of tools they offer. I don’t think any other manufacturer, not even Snap On, offers the variety of 1/4” drive tools that KoKen does.

Secondly, the value. For me in the U.K, the European manufacturers have always been very competitive. But… when you start to buy more specialised tools, even just deep sockets, their price advantage reduces.

KoKen have always been keenly priced across their range, but where the more specialised tools are concerned, they are unbeatable.


If I had to pick some things I don’t like (and I’m struggling) I would admit I don’t like the female square drive in the spinner. If I want an extension I’ll use one, and it results in a slightly uncomfortable edge on the back of the handle.

My only other dislike is the flex handle. It could do with being longer and I don’t use it much. All else is faultless though.

And if any U.S. readers are wondering how often I use these BA sizes, I use them a good deal. Here’s some in use overhauling a petrol pump. And I use some sizes, (such as 4BA) a lot for electrical terminals.

But of course KoKen offer a huge selection of Metric and SAE too, and even a separate range of “aerospace grade” SAE sockets.

 

[Stubby1743]

My 1/4 drive BA sockets.








A full set of 6 point 0-10BA (no skips). Just marked "Chrome Vanadium, no branding or COO. Nicely made.

6 point 10BA Gordon, 8, 6, 4, 3, 2 and 1BA Britool.

6 point 6, 5, 3, and 1BA King ****.

The no name set was a recent acquisition in a toolbox. The Britools I bought new in the 1970s from RS for putting together hobby audio amps before I switched over to metric fasteners. I still use them on old car electrics.

The King Dicks were in with a partial Craftsman BE 1/4 drive set that I recently picked up at my local car boot sale. The 6BA socket has cracks from 2 of the 6 groves. Can someone tell me how anybody can crack a socket tightening or loosening a fastener with a 0.11" (2.79mm) dia. thread?

 

[Dave455]

Can someone tell me how anybody can crack a socket tightening or loosening a fastener with a 0.11" (2.79mm) dia. thread?

I can.

6BA is 4.9mm a/f. I’ve seen one of these hammered on to a 5mm nut. I know this - because the nut was still stuck in the socket…!

 

[Stubby1743]

I think you're right, but at least the animal had the decency to use a soft faced hammer as the top of the socket is not marred. Although he/she could, of course, have been hammering on the ratchet.

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

I really like Gedore. I appreciate there devotion to function. Some like every remnant of the forging process polished away. I don’t see the purpose. They are premium tools in function, and used very successfully in aerospace and other demanding applications. They have grown to be 50% bigger than their brethren Stahlwille and Hazet. Good stuff. Successful in world wide markets.

I like my Gedore stuff , the 1Bs are damn nice to use , fit in my hands nicely, I've yet to find a more comfortable wrench.
The 1993 ratchet is nice too , also has that center locking feature I like to work bolts back and forth after some oil and heat instead of changing from ratchet to wrench and back etc.
I have found the finishing or stamping not be up to standard on a few tools in the past but I have never had any off centre ,sharp edges or have any fail on me. I've been using them since I was a kid.
I'm not saying that this hasn't happened , I'm sure it has since more than one person has said something about this. I think I've been unhappy with 2 of their ratchets , the 1/4 with coupler and 1/2 with coupler , the 1/4 locked up all the time and the 1/2 teeth felt rough but the replacement they sent for the 1/2 was better.
As far as Gedore Red goes , their Indian made wrenches are terrible , not because of their design but because of the utter lack of quality control , I bought a 6-32mm set and it's clear that the quality control in India is hit/miss. Sharp edges , inconsistent chamfer , a chunk out of the box end that was just smoothed over.

Most complaints I see about Gedore blue are cosmetic and Gedore red , well , that's hit /miss so I avoid it and I feel they're doing damage to their image by selling that red range , it's just too much of a pot luck scenario with those.

Their pliers , I like them and Knipex , Ive never had quality control issues with them , they always line up and are finished as well as anything else , clearly the Austrian plant has very strict quality control. I'm not a fan of their screw drivers though , I just don't like the way they fit my hands, I miss my old Wihas , they fitted nicely and worked well for decades.

I see Gedore's value , some don't , it's that's simple. People see value where I don't as well in other tool brands but they're looking for something different to what I'm looking for, their needs differ too.
Gedore is used in industry around the world and has a good reputation around the world. No clever marketing etc , just trusted and tested for decades. It doesn't seem to be popular here in the US though( I don't blame this market for not liking them after seeing the shocking tools out of India that came here decades past ) and I don't think they rely on this market that much, if they did , they'd never have sent you guys their Indian made tools, those would not have flown anywhere else either and thankfully other markets never got them as that would have been the end of Gedore I think. 1st time I encountered them was when I moved here and saw them selling for peanuts on eBay and was curious.

I really like Gedore. I appreciate there devotion to function. Some like every remnant of the forging process polished away. I don’t see the purpose. They are premium tools in function, and used very successfully in aerospace and other demanding applications. They have grown to be 50% bigger than their brethren Stahlwille and Hazet. Good stuff. Successful in world wide markets.

 

[HannibalLecter]

In my book gedore red is not gedore. I am not referring to these tools, only to the blue gedore. An example of a ratchet malfunctioning and locking (and we are not talking about cheap tools here, are we?)would have me not touching the brand again. Another example, the reversible ratcheting wrenches. Very expensive, very few teeth and huge thickness of the ratcheting end.
And here, on this forum, some another duds; these id call lack of QC

Gedore Tools - the biggest disappointment

Hello everyone, This is my first post and I found the forum in search of answers regarding Gedore... So disappointed and have lost any trust in them... I have no idea if Gedore UK is doing to me or just the German manufacturer changed... I have no idea how to post pictures here for you to...

www.garagejournal.com

I am sure other people have their tools and like them and I do not own gedore tools, but I do my research and I do not to get burned after I buy them

 

[jbltwin1]

This is the "A" set that is in my main tool box. There is another set not quite as big in the shed for the smaller jobs. My 1/4" swivel impacts are there too. Not ALL is snappy but when you are wrenching 8 hours a day, chit gets lost, broke, tossed, etc.

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

In my book gedore red is not gedore. I am not referring to these tools, only to the blue gedore. An example of a ratchet malfunctioning and locking (and we are not talking about cheap tools here, are we?)would have me not touching the brand again. Another example, the reversible ratcheting wrenches. Very expensive, very few teeth and huge thickness of the ratcheting end.
And here, on this forum, some another duds; these id call lack of QC

Gedore Tools - the biggest disappointment

Hello everyone, This is my first post and I found the forum in search of answers regarding Gedore... So disappointed and have lost any trust in them... I have no idea if Gedore UK is doing to me or just the German manufacturer changed... I have no idea how to post pictures here for you to...

www.garagejournal.com

I am sure other people have their tools and like them and I do not own gedore tools, but I do my research and I do not to get burned after I buy them

Please see my response as constructive rather condescending. I 100% mean it in the best way possible and not to be offensive.

Everything you've said here , I can say about any other premium and non premium tool maker based on research I've done online but without actual experience using the product , they would just make me ignorant, it would be valid in my mind and I may avoid said tool brand based on what I've read , but I won't go and repeat it as my opinion as I wouldn't be able to sufficiently answer any follow up questions as to why it's my opinion.
But when I have actual experience , then I'll gladly share my opinion as I have something more than just internet research to base it on. An example is that damn awful 290pc Husky set I bought when I 1st moved here.

It reminds me of when some people from hear my accent and ask where I'm from then reply " wow, things are really bad there" and then list ABC. I'll then reply , "where did you go where this was your experience ? " They'll reply saying that they haven't been , they just read it or heard it on the news. I then say nothing further. Sometimes the discussion goes further from their end and it comes out they don't even hold a passport , their experience of the world came from a screen or print on a piece of paper.
Right now , you're using research Vs experience. Don't get me wrong , there will be those who have experience and have a negative opinion of said tool , ill listen to their arguments as they are based on personal experience.

2 ratchets out of say 30 or so I've bought over the years , it happens to everyone , and it gets sorted out.

I will say though, where I do agree with you is that the limited availability makes it hard to go to a store , hold , touch and play with the tools , so the 1st time you touch it will be after you e paid for it, so yes you will not know before hand if said tool will suite you , that is an issue as how do you know your hands will find it comfortable to use etc. where I came from I could go ins store , home them , touch them etc so it was always an easy buy for me and knowing the product , having used it for years ,it remains an easy buy as if I do have an issue , the vendors and gedore themselves sort it out.
To this day , I only ever had an issue with those 2 ratchets , nothing else at all.
I like them for the same reason I like Toyota , or Yamaha or whatever else , reliable no nonsense , easy to use, get the job done.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Please see my response as constructive rather condescending. I 100% mean it in the best way possible and not to be offensive.

Everything you've said here , I can say about any other premium and non premium tool maker based on research I've done online but without actual experience using the product , they would just make me ignorant, it would be valid in my mind and I may avoid said tool brand based on what I've read , but I won't go and repeat it as my opinion as I wouldn't be able to sufficiently answer any follow up questions as to why it's my opinion.
But when I have actual experience , then I'll gladly share my opinion as I have something more than just internet research to base it on. An example is that damn awful 290pc Husky set I bought when I 1st moved here.

It reminds me of when some people from hear my accent and ask where I'm from then reply " wow, things are really bad there" and then list ABC. I'll then reply , "where did you go where this was your experience ? " They'll reply saying that they haven't been , they just read it or heard it on the news. I then say nothing further. Sometimes the discussion goes further from their end and it comes out they don't even hold a passport , their experience of the world came from a screen or print on a piece of paper.
Right now , you're using research Vs experience. Don't get me wrong , there will be those who have experience and have a negative opinion of said tool , ill listen to their arguments as they are based on personal experience.

2 ratchets out of say 30 or so I've bought over the years , it happens to everyone , and it gets sorted out.

I will say though, where I do agree with you is that the limited availability makes it hard to go to a store , hold , touch and play with the tools , so the 1st time you touch it will be after you e paid for it, so yes you will not know before hand if said tool will suite you , that is an issue as how do you know your hands will find it comfortable to use etc. where I came from I could go ins store , home them , touch them etc so it was always an easy buy for me and knowing the product , having used it for years ,it remains an easy buy as if I do have an issue , the vendors and gedore themselves sort it out.
To this day , I only ever had an issue with those 2 ratchets , nothing else at all.
I like them for the same reason I like Toyota , or Yamaha or whatever else , reliable no nonsense , easy to use, get the job done.

While your observations and deductions for the most part stand correct, there is evidence for my claims. I will not repeat it again.
Gedore blue is not by any means a <<medium>> price point brand, never has been. I can't afford and certainly wouldn't do it even if i could, to buy every tool brand rachet or sockets, just to have experience on something. I do my research as you mentioned, and make an educated decision.
I have some experience with stahlwille and gedore, from what ive seen, doesn't hold a candle to them. Again, some people on this forum have 50 ratchets. That's not the way I roll and its not demanded by my profession. Also, I am not sure the argument <<it does its job>> holds any water. Certainly when i hear about locked ratchets, or when I see bad castings in sockets. If it were tekton, or gearwrench we all would be more demanding. I get it to love toyota (which is a quality affordable brand), but to love the new v6 toyota while paying g class money, no I dont get it. Unless you all find gedore for little money, that I wouldn't know.
Another note, I am not a fan boy. If you look at the Japan tools thread, I was pretty clear of the problem i encountered with my koken ratchets. Again, (gedore) does its job for a premium priced tool with subpar quality is not an argument i can get behind. No one said it doesn't, for the most part at least. If someone sees casting with voids and sees 15€ for a socket and thinks yeah thats ok, it will get the bolt off, more power to them.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Here are some 1/4 drive tools I’ve had for many years.

My Dad bought me this “Draper” (British importer / distributor) branded set, made in Japan in the 1970’s. Wish I knew the maker.

He bought it solely on the basis that the tools felt decent. He was right - I’ve used it for at least four decades.

The “bi square” sockets are invaluable for adjusting drum brakes.


When I needed metric sockets I went out and bought Britool (British manufacturer long gone - but very decent).


These are lovely and I have used them a lot. These Britool tools were slightly more hefty, for their overall size, than those from other makers. Note the thickness of the extension.

Unfortunately, for those with OCD, a lot of my 1/4” drive just evolved naturally - a mix of tools from different makers - but all are good quality and all work well together.

Some pb sockets. Very nice. Shame they discontinued them

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

While your observations and deductions for the most part stand correct, there is evidence for my claims. I will not repeat it again.
Gedore blue is not by any means a <<medium>> price point brand, never has been. I can't afford and certainly wouldn't do it even if i could, to buy every tool brand rachet or sockets, just to have experience on something. I do my research as you mentioned, and make an educated decision.
I have some experience with stahlwille and gedore, from what ive seen, doesn't hold a candle to them. Again, some people on this forum have 50 ratchets. That's not the way I roll and its not demanded by my profession. Also, I am not sure the argument <<it does its job>> holds any water. Certainly when i hear about locked ratchets, or when I see bad castings on sockets. If it were tekton, or gearwrench we all would be more demanding. I get it to love toyota (which is a quality affordable brand), but to love the new v6 toyota while paying g class money, no I dont get it. Unless you all find gedore for little money, that I wouldn't know.
Another note, I am not a fan boy. If you look at the Japan tools thread, I was pretty clear of the problem i encountered with my koken ratchets. Again, (gedore) does its job for a premium priced tool with subpar quality is not an argument i can get behind. No one said it doesn't, for the most part at least. If someone sees casting with voids and sees 15€ for a socket and thinks yeah thats ok, it will get the bolt off, more power to them.

But my point is that your research should have shown that every single tool brand will at some point send out a locked ratchet, it does happen, even to the premium makers. Wherever there is room for human error , there is room for lapse in quality control.

I don't only use Gedore , I use other tools too and including Stahlwille , which I don't see to be of better quality , just shinier with a smoother surface while I prefer the rougher more matt surface of the gedore , that's personal preference and not an indication of quality.

I also don't see it as a premium tool , snap on is a premium tool and costs substantially more, I see it as a middle of the road tool and it's pricing puts it there too, a happy medium between cheap and premium and I know what I'm getting and that if there is an issue , ittll be sorted out.

 

[HannibalLecter]

But my point is that your research should have shown that every single tool brand will at some point send out a locked ratchet, it does happen

I don't only use Gedore , I use other tools too and including Stahlwille , which I don't see to be of better quality , just shinier with a smoother surface while I prefer the rougher more matt surface of the gedore , that's personal preference and not an indication of quality.

I also don't see it as a premium tool , snap on is a premium tool and costs substantially more, I see it as a middle of the road tool and it's pricing puts it there too, a happy medium between cheap and premium and I know what I'm getting and that if there is an issue , ittll be sorted out.

Funnily enough, my research didn't show that. I made my points based on evidence. I respect your remarks, but I do not agree. Let's not derail this thread.

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

Funnily enough, my research didn't show that. I made my points based on evidence. I respect your remarks, but I do not agree. Let's not derail this thread.

Fair enough, Apologies to the OP for the de -rail.

 

[Pexto]

Some pb sockets. Very nice. Shame they discontinued them

Well, now you've done it - made me go out to the shop and snap a pic.

These all live in my specialty bicycle tool box which has seen a lot of upgrades the last few years.

I would love to complete the set of PB Swiss hex bits; they are my favorites even over the Nepros which are also very nice.

As regards Gedore I think these pliers are my only Gedore tools. They are very nicely made in Austria, very precise, and I really like the satin finish. However the handles were ridiculously oversized and clunky and you can see where I took a knife to them and cut off the most egregious lumps.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Lucky you! I missed that train on pb sockets. These pliers arent bad looking, similar to knipex

 

[Dave455]

Fair enough, Apologies to the OP for the de -rail.

I enjoy hearing all views. Saves me wasting money to find out for myself.

With regard to Gedore, although I’m not their biggest fan, I can see both sides of this.

If you’re located in Europe, Gedore are inexpensive tools. Historically, they were priced on a par with Taiwanese ones, so the decision to buy Gedore was a decision to opt for (hopefully) reasonable steel and functionality, but at the expense of finishing.

If you’re located in the U.S. Gedore end up as premium priced tools, but without the premium quality, so I see no attraction whatsoever.

The issue for me is the inconsistency. I’ve seen some reasonable Gedore, and some awful, but you need to know the individual tool, the country of origin that year, and possibly the phase of the moon, before you really know what you are going to get.

 

[Dave455]

Well, now you've done it - made me go out to the shop and snap a pic.

These all live in my specialty bicycle tool box which has seen a lot of upgrades the last few years.

I would love to complete the set of PB Swiss hex bits; they are my favorites even over the Nepros which are also very nice.

As regards Gedore I think these pliers are my only Gedore tools. They are very nicely made in Austria, very precise, and I really like the satin finish. However the handles were ridiculously oversized and clunky and you can see where I took a knife to them and cut off the most egregious lumps.

The PB Swiss hex sockets were lovely. I’m fortunate to have a few 1/4” and a few 3/8” drive. As so often with PB Swiss they seem to be the absolute best for repetitive use.

They used to offer Torx as well, and I regret not acquiring any.

The Gedore pliers are one of their better lines. They tend to be very consistent, and the Austrian factory supplies them to a lot of other companies too.

But I don’t find that pliers are something where I struggle to get good ones at a reasonable price, and the saving on the Gedore (compared to say Knipex) is relatively small for me.

Loving that gold Nepros though…!

 

[four.cycle]

the handles were ridiculously oversized and clunky

While I fully agree with your opinion of the current day, oversized "insulated" grips, the buying public does not - evidenced by the proliferation of this handle design across the board among various manufacturers.
It is apparently what the public wants. Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing so many brands going this route.

 

[Hannahranga]

And if any U.S. readers are wondering how often I use these BA sizes, I use them a good deal. Here’s some in use overhauling a petrol pump. And I use some sizes, (such as 4BA) a lot for electrical terminals.

What stuff has that much BA on it? I'm a railway signal technician in Australia and some of our older equipment is BA (generally the older UK stuff).

 

[Pexto]

While I fully agree with your opinion of the current day, oversized "insulated" grips, the buying public does not - evidenced by the proliferation of this handle design across the board among various manufacturers.
It is apparently what the public wants. Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing so many brands going this route.

I agree. However in this case it's my own dang fault for buying VDE pliers to work on bicycles. And to be fair, if you're designing plier handles for working on high-voltage equipment, you should design them so they encourage the user to hold them entirely by the plastic part of the grip, and keep their mitts off the metal. But when I'm doing delicate work I often creep up on the handle. Like in the pic below - (totally posed) just to show the grip I often use on smaller needle-nose pliers, in a case like pulling the cable out of an STI shifter. Note that I wouldn't ordinarily use a 3rd-hand tool on the brake lever but I needed a free hand for the phone!

 

[KnurledNut]

here is a pic of an extension I picked up at Habitat. drive end is 3/8. business end is 1/4" with pin retainer

Nice score. Did that have a brand name on it? Only one I am aware of in that configuration is Apex. Which is a brand that could have a thread devoted entirely to itself.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Nice score. Did that have a brand name on it? Only one I am aware of in that configuration is Apex. Which is a brand that could have a thread devoted entirely to itself.

Koken has a zeal one, from 3/8 to 1/4

 

[KnurledNut]

Koken has a zeal one, from 3/8 to 1/4

Industrial grade pin retention? The 3322AZ is chrome ball retention for hand use.

 

[HannibalLecter]

Industrial grade pin retention? The 3322AZ is chrome ball retention for hand use.

Ah no, I thought you meant in general

 

[KnurledNut]

This is the "A" set that is in my main tool box. There is another set not quite as big in the shed for the smaller jobs. My 1/4" swivel impacts are there too. Not ALL is snappy but when you are wrenching 8 hours a day, chit gets lost, broke, tossed, etc.

Very nice. Love the old Snap-on boxes.
Here is my 1/4 drive metric setup.

 

[Dave455]

What stuff has that much BA on it? I'm a railway signal technician in Australia and some of our older equipment is BA (generally the older UK stuff).

Basically most things that need a fastener smaller than about 1/4”, and are pre ISO metric.

When the U.K. adopted Unified threads in the late 50’s, the smaller “numbered” threads were not adopted, and BA was retained, so you find them on petrol pumps, carbs, instruments etc on vehicles into the 1980’s.

You find them on machine tools much later - even on some stuff now I suspect. 4BA is a standard electrical terminal size for industrial motors.

They’re found widely in aero engines and aircraft instruments, and in specific industries. Telecoms come to mind, but I’m not surprised about signalling equipment.

Some industries never switched from Whitworth because they had standardised on one bolt size (e.g. railway track) and changing would be a nightmare. I gather it’s similar in mining, water supply, and so forth.

They are a popular choice for model engineers (folks building stuff such as the locomotive below) because they go down to such small sizes. Doubt that will ever change.

 

[whateg01]

Basically most things that need a fastener smaller than about 1/4”, and are pre ISO metric.

When the U.K. adopted Unified threads in the late 50’s, the smaller “numbered” threads were not adopted, and BA was retained, so you find them on petrol pumps, carbs, instruments etc on vehicles into the 1980’s.

You find them on machine tools much later - even on some stuff now I suspect. 4BA is a standard electrical terminal size for industrial motors.

I haven't worked with those British sizes, so I looked up 4BA and it says it's 0.248" across the flats. Won't a 1/4" work for that? 3BA is 0.282" which is "just" over 9/32". Those are normal fractional sizes. What's special about these BA sizes that keep fractional tools from working?

 

[four.cycle]

^ Because they're off just enough that you will round off the tiny little nuts they use to hold things together.
I received several tiny "BA" open-end wrenches with a batch of stuff - had NO clue what they were at first - realized I would never have a use for them and sent them off in a "Secret Santa" package - probably to Blake or Cody. The sizes on those things are itty-bitty.

click below to download *.pdf file wrench size chart (52 kb):

 

[Dave455]

I haven't worked with those British sizes, so I looked up 4BA and it says it's 0.248" across the flats. Won't a 1/4" work for that? 3BA is 0.282" which is "just" over 9/32". Those are normal fractional sizes. What's special about these BA sizes that keep fractional tools from working?

Because we didn’t have fractional sizes!

Don’t really find them much in the small sizes, even now. Only really found in the aviation world, or on American equipment.

 

[whateg01]

Because we didn’t have fractional sizes!

Don’t really find them much in the small sizes, even now. Only really found in the aviation world, or on American equipment.

But fractional sizes are readily available now, right? So, why do you need to find BA sizes now if a fractional sticker would fit?

 

[Dave455]

But fractional sizes are readily available now, right? So, why do you need to find BA sizes now if a fractional sticker would fit?

Actually, no, not in those smaller sizes.

The U.K. switched from using BA sizes directly to ISO Metric, so smaller fractional sizes are seldom found here. The only industry that used them was the aviation sector.

And while some BA sizes have fractional equivalents, not all do.

I have smaller fractional sizes, but that’s because I work on both aircraft components, and occasionally American vehicles. I still wouldn’t use the wrong tool, when I have the right one to hand.

 

[Hannahranga]

But fractional sizes are readily available now, right? So, why do you need to find BA sizes now if a fractional sticker would fit?

Some of them do have sufficiently close metric or fractional AF equivalents that it's eh for low torque stuff or one offs (shockingly enough BA insulated nut spinners aren't common) but not everything. They do tend to be obnoxious fiddly and hard to replace too so you don't really want to ruin them.