Spreading the Bonney affliction!

[alinc100]

Ideally I'd love to see it filled as this MC set but I'm not sure I have the patience:

 

[Private Lugnutz]

You would have gasped at the price and walked right on by, LOL.

"Lessons with Andy", Part IV: How to call someone a cheap ******* and get away with it!

If you paid dearly I'm assuming it's a keeper then. I know you've been flipping a lot of tools as a matter of course, including the Bonney roller, so I wasn't sure. Nice. If you do decide to complete it, maybe I can fill some holes.

 

[LesserSon]

As far as organization goes, it's gonna be hard pressed to organize. The lower compartment is just open, wrenches will just splay about.

Later catalogs show a clearer suggestion for putting those wrenches in the removeable tray.

You would have gasped at the price and walked right on by, LOL.

IDK - some of us are cheapskates most of the time, so we can drop big bucks when something extraordinary comes along - and your find is extraordinary.

 

[LesserSon]

Ideally I'd love to see it filled as this MC set but I'm not sure I have the patience

I don’t think you’re that far away, though. Take out all the nonBonney, accept that you have 40xx sockets instead of the Dxx sockets…

 

[LesserSon]

@alinc100
MCset CURRENTLY MISSING:
4081 offset
4087 sliding tee
4096 hinge handle
T2 offset
T3 universal
T4 6” ext
T5 12” tee
T9 speeder
T30 hinge handle
T28 ratchet
T12 T14 T16 T18 T20 sockets
4287 sliding tee
42908-1/2” ext
4291 17” ext
4114 7/16”sq
4118 9/16”sq
D14 D25 D26 D28 D30 D31 sockets
4001 4002 drag links
LD26T LD32
HD34 HD36 HD40 HD44 HD46 HD48 HD52 sockets
H10 H12 H14 H16 H18 mini eng wrenches
1725B 1727 eng wrenches
2725B 2727 RA wrenches
2804 2807 2809 DH box wrenches
———————————-
MCset CURRENTLY INCLUDES:
DRIVE TOOLS
4084 12” speed handle (13”?)
4055 20” speed handle (4085?)
4090 5” extension
4091 10” extension
4092 cross handle
4095 universal joint
4093 ratchet with 2 drive plugs (instead of 4097 ratchet)

SOCKETS
4118 1/2” square
4016 1/2” 6 pt shallow
4018 9/16” 6 pt shallow
4019 19/32”6 pt shallow
4020 5/8” 6 pt shallow
4021 21/32” 6 pt shallow
4022 11/16” 6 pt shallow
4024 3/4” 6 pt shallow
4032 1’’ 6 pt shallow
LD36 1-⅛” 12 pt deep socket (extra)
2866 1/2” crowfoot box
2868 9/16” crowfoot box
2870 5/8” crowfoot box
2872 11/16” crowfoot box (extra)
2874 3/4” crowfoot box

WRENCHES
1729 5/8” x 3/4” doe
1731A 3/4” X 7/8” doe
1033C 15/16” x1” doe
2805 1/2” x 9/16” DH box short
———————————-
EXTRA WRENCHES:
1723 3/8” x 7/16” doe
1725 7/16” x 1/2” doe
1025 11/16” x 25/32” doe
1028 5/8” x 25/32” doe
1731 3/4” x 13/16” doe
1033 7/8” x 31/32” doe
1733 7/8” x 1”doe
1035 31/32” X 1-1/16” doe
1735 1” X 1-1/8” doe
1037 1-1/16” X 1-1/4’’ doe
1038 1-1/16” x 1-7/16” doe
1738 1-1/8” X 1-3/8” doe
1739A 1-1/4” x 1-1/2” doe
1041 1-7/16” x 1-5/8” doe
2721 5/16” x 3/8” angle head obstruction
2723 3/8” x 7/16” angle head obstruction
2725A 7/16” x 9/16” angle head obstruction
2026 1/4” uss x 3/8” uss angle head obstruction
2027 5/16” uss x 3/8” uss angle head obstruction
2724 5/8” x 3/4” angle head obstruction
2730 5/8” x 13/16” angle head obstruction
2732 3/4” x 1” angle head obstruction
2032 25/32’’ X 31/32” angle head obstruction
2033A 7/8” x 15/16” angle head obstruction
2811 1” x 1-1/8” deep offset
2812A 1-1/4” x1-7/16” deep offset
2822 11/16” offset/straight box
2824 3/4” offset/straight box
2828 7/8” offset/straight box
2830 15/16” offset/straight box
Now I see why your wrenches won’t fit in the tray!

 

[alinc100]

"Lessons with Andy", Part IV: How to call someone a cheap ******* and get away with it!

If you paid dearly I'm assuming it's a keeper then. I know you've been flipping a lot of tools as a matter of course, including the Bonney roller, so I wasn't sure. Nice. If you do decide to complete it, maybe I can fill some holes.

We call it "Thinking with Lincoln " around here. LOL And it really wasn't high priced , and you are not a "cheap *******" you are frugal, shrewd, thrifty, and very wise. It will likely become a flip . I have several other Bonney pieces ,I'm going to have to see what is period appropriate and may fit in.

Later catalogs show a clearer suggestion for putting those wrenches in the removeable tray.


IDK - some of us are cheapskates most of the time, so we can drop big bucks when something extraordinary comes along - and your find is extraordinary.

Thanks, that pic helps alot. I'll have to tinker as time allows and see what I can make happen.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@alinc100 I was just teasing. (Like LS, I have reached deep in my pockets, at times, for special things, but they are precious few and far between.) If you're flipping, it means you think there's still a margin, which means there's at least one person out there who wouldn't gasp quite as hard as me!

The little corner badging is cool. As the piece de resistance, I would protect it by all means possible.

 

[LesserSon]

The little corner badging is cool. As the piece de resistance, I would protect it by all means possible.

Ditto - I was also going to comment on it, but got caught up reorganizing your inventory to align with the catalog’s. I have two or three Bonney black metal boxes (none big), and the orange tartan badges vary from barely discernable to not as clear as yours.
Probably because yours on the underside of the lid (mine are topside), and maybe wasn’t jostled around much because of the weight of all those tools.
Since the box doesn’t seem rusty, I think you can just be careful to not scratch it by filling the top tray too high. Anything beyond that is likely going to adversly affect flip-value. (Don’t try to clean it.)

 

[Shelbylex]

Is there a good reference which I can use to assess the age of Bonney Sockets?
How old would those be? (Not mine (?yet))

 

[Private Lugnutz]

How old would those be?

No older than late 1940's. Bonney sockets and other tools were marked "MADE IN U.S.A." prewar and wartime. Like Williams and several other mfgrs, they reduced the COO marking to just the initials "U.S.A." during the transition period just after WWII. And they're chromed.

I don't know the exact age, because I don't generally collect postwar Bonney tools and have not familiarized myself with distinctions. Someone more knowledgeable on Bonney postwar tools may be able to narrow it down for you.

Catalogs will not help in terms of markings. The 1947 and 1950 catalogs still re-uses graphics from older catalogs showing all kinds of early markings, even CV and embedded Princeton-shield logos.

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Private Lugnutz!

 

[LesserSon]

I would narrow that: late 1950s to early 1960s, without hard proof, but not without evidence.

As Lugz said, “Made in U.S.A.” persisted immediately post-WWII. On some tools with date codes, it looks like they switched to “U.S.A.” around June 1946, but on others, as late as April 1947.

But there were never date codes on sockets. I see this example as wartime.



And this one, maybe 1946/7.



Then there’s this, maybe around the Miller Manufacturing years(1954-)?



And then what you’re looking at, with concave diamonds, possibly Alliance OH years (1957-64)?



After which, an inversion, maybe Kelsey-Hayes (mid1960s) era?



Then a clear Triangle stamp, smooth walls (and LocRite lobes) after 1966.



And I take this to be the demise under Cooper Tool ownership.

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Lesser Son!
This helps a lot!!!

 

[alinc100]

I would narrow that: late 1950s to early 1960s, without hard proof, but not without evidence.
As Lugz said, “Made in U.S.A.” persisted immediately post-WWII. On some tools with date codes, it looks like they switched to “U.S.A.” around June 1946, but on others, as late as April 1947.
But there were never date codes on sockets. I see this example as wartime.
And this one, maybe 1946/7.
Then there’s this, maybe around the Miller Manufacturing years(1954-)?
And then what you’re looking at, with concave diamonds, possibly Alliance OH years (1957-64)?
After which, an inversion, maybe Kelsey-Hayes (mid1960s) era?
Then a clear Triangle stamp, smooth walls (and LocRite lobes) after 1966.
And I take this to be the demise under Cooper Tool ownership.

A great visual timeline. I can say I learned something today...now If I can just remember where.......

 

[1whocares]

I am working on filling this Bonney tool board and have identified all but the 8 on the top right, the part numbers are SN6, 7,8,9,10,11,12,14, all starting with SN. I have looked at all the alloy Artifact pages and catalogs, searched the numbers on Google and e-bay with no luck, can anyone fill me in on those 8 tools, the gap between the pegs are 1/4 inch, the space to the next tools on the bottom is less than 4 inches and there is almost no room to the top of the board, any info would be appreciated. Thanks

Somehow I have gotten addicted to filling in old tool boards of different brands

 

[Oregon Dave]

I am working on filling this Bonney tool board and have identified all but the 8 on the top right, the part numbers are SN6, 7,8,9,10,11,12,14, all starting with SN. I have looked at all the alloy Artifact pages and catalogs, searched the numbers on Google and e-bay with no luck, can anyone fill me in on those 8 tools, the gap between the pegs are 1/4 inch, the space to the next tools on the bottom is less than 4 inches and there is almost no room to the top of the board, any info would be appreciated. Thanks

Somehow I have gotten addicted to filling in old tool boards of different brands

Hello & Welcome; lots of good info around here - keep us informed on your progress & please do share other info with us - it's an easy crowd here - again Welcome.

 

[Provincial]

Bottom three:

Bonney 1033-C DOE Embedded Shield Logo, "Chrome Vanadium" 15/16 x 1"
Bonney 1037 DOE Embedded Shield Logo, "Chrome Vanadium" 1-1/16 x 1-1/4
Bonney 1738 DOE Embedded Shield Logo, "Chrome Vanadium" 1-1/8 x 1-7/16

 

[RTM]

am working on filling this Bonney tool board and have identified all but the 8 on the top right, the part numbers are SN6, 7,8,9,10,11,12,14, all starting with SN

From

Bonney Forge & Tool Works : Descriptive Price List PD-13 : Applying to Catalogs D-2, M2, C3, Display Catalog #1 & All Previous Catalogs : Bonney Forge & Tool Works : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

18 p., 26.9 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

Nut Starters from 3/16 to 7/16

 

[Private Lugnutz]

From...

The asterisk might be the most significant bit of information on that page!

I am working on filling this Bonney tool board and have identified all but the 8 on the top right, the part numbers are SN6, 7,8,9,10,11,12,14, all starting with SN. I have looked at all the alloy Artifact pages and catalogs, searched the numbers on Google and e-bay with no luck,

You can add the GJ Bonney thread to this list, because I don't recall seeing any "Nut Starters" posted here, the Search function doesn't reveal any being posted naming them in the text, and, I have to admit, I have never seen one in the wild or a photo. Granted, I don't generally collect Bonney tools made after 1950, so I know virtually nothing about that era or later. There are plenty of late to modern era Bonney collectors here so they may have examples, but I had no idea what the tool even looked like. So I went looking.

Based on the name and the provisions and dimensions for hanging them on that board, I was picturing something like a screw starter, for nuts instead, or very small nut drivers, and - lo and behold, that's pretty much what they were! (I have a large set of very small, very skinny nut spinners, made from pot metal, with slightly compressive, pivoting heads, for seating on hard to reach nuts, probably 70's or 80's production, that are users, and I guess these Bonney tools were early forerunners of the same concept.)

Top of page 9 Catalog C-2 (1950)...



Despite the PD-13 Descriptive Price List (1956) claiming to apply "to Catalogs D-2, M-2, C-3, Display Catalog #1 & All Previous Catalogs", I could not find them in Catalog M-2. At least not on the same page or vicinity as they appear in the C-2. There is no copy of Catalogs D-2 or C-3 on IA/ITCL, so I could not check those. They do not appear in Catalog C-1 (1947) or Catalogs 43 (1943) and I stopped there, highly doubting earlier production.

 

[Snaparxon]

I am working on filling this Bonney tool board and have identified all but the 8 on the top right, the part numbers are SN6, 7,8,9,10,11,12,14, all starting with SN. I have looked at all the alloy Artifact pages and catalogs, searched the numbers on Google and e-bay with no luck, can anyone fill me in on those 8 tools, the gap between the pegs are 1/4 inch, the space to the next tools on the bottom is less than 4 inches and there is almost no room to the top of the board, any info would be appreciated. Thanks

Somehow I have gotten addicted to filling in old tool boards of different brands

The asterisk might be the most significant bit of information on that page!



You can add the GJ Bonney thread to this list, because I don't recall seeing any "Nut Starters" posted here, the Search function doesn't reveal any being posted naming them in the text, and, I have to admit, I have never seen one in the wild or a photo. Granted, I don't generally collect Bonney tools made after 1950, so I know virtually nothing about that era or later. There are plenty of late to modern era Bonney collectors here so they may have examples, but I had no idea what the tool even looked like. So I went looking.

Based on the name and the provisions and dimensions for hanging them on that board, I was picturing something like a screw starter, for nuts instead, or very small nut drivers, and - lo and behold, that's pretty much what they were!

Top of page 9 Catalog C-2 (1950)...



Despite the PD-13 Descriptive Price List (1956) claiming to apply "to Catalogs D-2, M-2, C-3, Display Catalog #1 & All Previous Catalogs", I could not find them in Catalog M-2. At least not on the same page or vicinity as they appear in the C-2. There is no copy of Catalogs D-2 or C-3 on IA/ITCL, so I could not check those. They do not appear in Catalog C-1 (1947) or Catalogs 43 (1943) and I stopped there, highly doubting earlier production.

That has got to be a collectors worst nightmare, A tool board with empty slots for tools that are rare as hens teeth.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That has got to be a collectors worst nightmare, A tool board with empty slots for tools that are rare as hens teeth

Snerk. Agreed! But if he's anything like me - and I suspect you and other tool board addicts enthusiasts, he will do what we all would do, and that is...[cups one hand at mouth, lowers voice...]... put something else that fits and looks good there to fill in the vacant space!

 

[1whocares]

First I want to thank all that read and helped on my Bonney tool board issue, Oregon Dave, RTM, Private Lugnutz, Snaparxon, and anyone else that started the research. As soon as I saw them my thought was I had never seen these. So as I continue the search, I am already in the process of making a set to put in there place. These nut starters must be pretty short as there is not much room for them. Thanks to all again. It is hard to believe how happy it makes me to just know what these are and have a picture/drawing. Also this is my new favorite forum.

 

[Provincial]

Xcelite P-series (miniature) nut drivers are short and have tiny handles. They might work to fill the empty slots.

 

[alinc100]

First I want to thank all that read and helped on my Bonney tool board issue, Oregon Dave, RTM, Private Lugnutz, Snaparxon, and anyone else that started the research. As soon as I saw them my thought was I had never seen these. So as I continue the search, I am already in the process of making a set to put in there place. These nut starters must be pretty short as there is not much room for them. Thanks to all again. It is hard to believe how happy it makes me to just know what these are and have a picture/drawing. Also this is my new favorite forum.

Let's just say ..You've came to the right place. The knowledge ,friendliness, and shear volume of this place make it great. I started looking last night in catalogs on IA/ITCL in between other things but never was able to beat these guyz.

 

[LesserSon]

I scanned the last few posts, but I’m not sure the search and discussion of nut starters included a comparison to tube benders.
They are longish helical springs that widen at one or both ends, used by hand to put a smooth bend into soft copper tubing without kinking.
They come in a few sizes for common sizes of copper tube. I can easily imagine someone picking one up, experimentally jamming a nut into the end, and thinking, “this could come in handy!”

I have not seen wood-handled nut starters in the wild, but the catalog illustrations and descriptions give me the impression that they are essentially tube benders with dowel handles.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Found this battery wrench at the flea this morning. It's marked (forged-in) with what is apparently a factory model number ("6481") next to the B-shield logo on the shank.




As well as what appears to be the customer's branding ("WHITAKER SPECIAL") and what is probably a Whitaker part number ("S-1043") on the flip side.



"Whitaker" is doubtlessly a reference to the Whitaker Battery Supply Company, a major early all things batteries supplier with offices in Philly and KC, MO. Here's a full-page ad from 1930.



The date code appears to be GV (1930).



These wrenches have turned up here before.

BB found one back in 2016 (without mentioning the date code or any other markings)...

An old B-shield non-symmetric-profiled DBE. Anyone know about the bottom wrench?

Which Todd ID'ed for him.

...battery terminal wrench.

Adding the following comment.

Later numbered 2875.

LS found one back in 2019, posted here...

...a 1931 (EW) battery wrench 6481.

Note that neither BB or LS noted any Bonney branding or any other markings (customer, etc).

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's the rub.

I cannot find a reference to the 6481 P/N in any Bonney catalog. Not in the numerical index or in the wrenches or special wrenches pages with the other special wrenches. In fact, there aren't any other 64xx series tools of any kind. I looked in every cat between 1926 and 1943.

The first cat the battery wrench appears in is No. 134 (1934), it has a Zenel panel look, and its P/N is 2875. It appears with that look, that P/N, and a very similar description in every cat throughout the 1930's and 1940's.



I'm all ears. But my instincts tell me they were making these on contract exclusively for customers such as Whitaker (and probably other battery supply houses), not in-house sales, hence the minimal Bonney branding, and when they finally put it in a Bonney catalog, as a Bonney branded product, it had been given a different P/N.

 

[LesserSon]

At least one of the catalogs I checked in your range of dates explicitly states Zenel alloy for the 2875. I can see from your snip that they started calling it Bonaloy by cat43.
I think your interpretation is sound. I don’t have a memory of finding the 6481 in catalogs, though I don’t have a memory of not finding it, either. It’s been enough years, I don’t really recall why I wound up collecting three, except maybe because when I started collecting Bonney it was specifically Zenel alloy that I was looking for, and I STILL don’t have a 2875.
None of the three battery wrenches I have include branding. One doesn’t even have the B-shield, though it does have a “DW” date code, and a stamped “A” prefix to the “6481”, where the shield could have been obiterated (note the forged-in numerals are a larger size than my other two examples).
The other two are “EW” but also note that the center one has grinder marks on the blank side, so possibly did bear forged-in branding at some point in its existence.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Thanks.

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are a couple of Bonney wrenches (I think). The smaller one is marked Bonney and is an obstruction wrench. The sizes are pre 1930 where it is sized to the bolt head instead of the thread. However, it is also marked with "Made in U.S.A.". The second one is not marked with the Bonney name or a date code, but does have the "Chrome Vanadium Steel" which was a trademarked name. Any ideas on when these were made? Thanks. (Edit: I said it was made after 1930, but some makers use the COO before it became law. I stand corrected.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The "R" in the date code and the embedded Princeton shield branding ("BON{/}NEY") date the obstruction wrench to 1926.
(I'm not sure where you're getting the info that 'MADE IN U.S.A.' comes after 1930.)

The second wrench was made by Duro-Indestro. Bonney TM'ed a stylized form of "Chrome-Vanadium" (note, with a hyphen) - as well as the abbreviation 'CV', but did not own all rights to all forms of the name of the steel composition itself, which was used by many mfgrs. DI used "Chrome Vanadium Steel" branding.

 

[Eric Brown]

The "R" in the date code and the embedded Princeton shield branding ("BON{/}NEY") date the obstruction wrench to 1926.
(I'm not sure where you're getting the info that 'MADE IN U.S.A.' comes after 1930.)

The second wrench was made by Duro-Indestro. Bonney TM'ed a stylized form of "Chrome-Vanadium" (note, with a hyphen) - as well as the abbreviation 'CV', but did not own all rights to all forms of the name of the steel composition itself, which was used by many mfgrs. DI used "Chrome Vanadium Steel" branding.

You right. I corrected it. Some makers did use COO before it became law. Apparently Duro was one of them.

 

[bonneyman]

Nice tool pics, guys!

 

[LesserSon]

Trip to Jake’s Flea this morning. Real purpose was to pick through some Indestro pressed steel DOE kit wrenches I ignored last weekend, but they turned out to not include the two sizes I wanted. Instead, $3 bought the Bonney B-43 Corbin hose clamp pliers at top of each photo. My phone notes told me I didn’t have a pair.
Got home and turns out I did, but with the Utica 538-8 model number. Clearly, Utica manufactered both pairs. Catalog research leads me to believe top pair are ca1960s and the bottom pair are ca1970s. Maybe Kelsey-Hayes kept the Miller-era B- system in place for a while, then Triangle collapsed it.

 

[Shelbylex]

Is there a good reference which I can use to assess the age of Bonney Sockets?
How old would those be? (Not mine (?yet))

Well, there was some Horse Trading and I brought them home.
After Evaporust and light wirebrush
- AL26T 13/16
- LT24 3/4
-LD20 5/8
-LD22 11/16

Once again, thank you for LesserSon for the lesson above!

 

[z28lsc]

Bonney Knurled sockets.

 

[z28lsc]

My first bonney screwdriver that I have found in the wild. It was rusted and faded but it cleaned up pretty good.

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

My first bonney screwdriver that I have found in the wild. It was rusted and faded but it cleaned up pretty good.

Boy that did clean up like new.

 

[z28lsc]

Boy that did clean up like new.

Yes it did. I just used a razor blade, steelwhool and flitz on the handle.

 

[Steven 33]

Here's the rub.

I cannot find a reference to the 6481 P/N in any Bonney catalog. Not in the numerical index or in the wrenches or special wrenches pages with the other special wrenches. In fact, there aren't any other 64xx series tools of any kind. I looked in every cat between 1926 and 1943.

The first cat the battery wrench appears in is No. 134 (1934), it has a Zenel panel look, and its P/N is 2875. It appears with that look, that P/N, and a very similar description in every cat throughout the 1930's and 1940's.



I'm all ears. But my instincts tell me they were making these on contract exclusively for customers such as Whitaker (and probably other battery supply houses), not in-house sales, hence the minimal Bonney branding, and when they finally put it in a Bonney catalog, as a Bonney branded product, it had been given a different P/N.

It's likely because on the archive website if you looked there. It's all jumbled up when you try to search things. But I managed come across a few catalogs with it