Pliers; How Many Is Too Many?

[Mintgrun]

I'd like to know more about TORO pliers. I posted some that I have here --

W. Schollhorn Company/ W.A. Bernard

None of mine have that slide mechanism and I have never seen it before. The patent drawing shows and describes an explosive fuse cutter and cap crimper, interestingly enough, but Bernard points out in the second graph that the design could support other cutting, pressing, punching, and crimping...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[LesserSon]

There don't seem to be many MANSCO marked tools on Garage Journal.

Here is a pair of knuckle grip red-dipped MANSCO 68-7 GERMANY U.S.ZONE slip-joint linesman pliers. 1946-49. Note the flat (not domed) cutter side.

 

[RTM]

Here is a pair of knuckle grip red-dipped MANSCO 68-7 GERMANY U.S.ZONE slip-joint linesman pliers. 1946-49. Note the flat (not domed) cutter side.

I had the brother shaped pair, marked Oxwall, per your post elsewhere. Did you find a difference in the quality of the joint between the two? I tossed mine they were so sloppy. Seemed ok when I tried them on a cold morning with gloves on ...

 

[LesserSon]

I don’t think it’s me you’re thinking of. At least I don’t recall discussing this pattern before, and this is my only example.

 

[RTM]

I don’t think it’s me you’re thinking of. At least I don’t recall discussing this pattern before, and this is my only example.

****, I was confusing your Mansco with @Eric Brown 's Oxwall's in the Oxwall thread.

 

[Eric Brown]

****, I was confusing your Mansco with @Eric Brown 's Oxwall's in the Oxwall thread.

There are a few more that I haven't posted yet that have differences. So far I have not been able to confirm who made the Oxwall's. My first guess I decided against. Looks like the joint was being used before WWII, mostly by Bruno Will. Some are marked DGRM. However, after WWII Harry Will restarted the factory and I have not found examples of this joint on the Will pliers. Will ended up in the US Zone. Oxwall's were mostly produced with the finger grip shape either in the British zone or the later West Germany area. Another maker I am still sorting out is Schmidt. They produced before WWII but apparently the factory was destroyed during the war. Have not found examples after WWII but one site mentioned the factory being rebuilt in 1949. So they probably did not make the Oxwall's either. One maker that needs more research is Boker of Germany. They made tools such as pliers but finding them is hard.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Toro Made in USA

All stamped and folded construction.

When and what for are the questions.

I'd like to know more about TORO pliers.

Re-brands made by Schollhorn for Bridgeport. Look in the 1917 Bridgeport catalog on IA/ITCL.

 

[RTM]

Speaking of Boker, anyone have a clue what these pliers are for? No serrations inside the cylinder, the diameter is 1.75"
Boker USA is the only mark, very small on the lower leg in the picture, right about the grout line.

 

[RTM]

Re-brands made by Schollhorn for Bridgeport. Look in the 1917 Bridgeport catalog on IA/ITCL.

Damn, would not have thought to look there.

 

[LesserSon]

Speaking of Boker, anyone have a clue what these pliers are for? No serrations inside the cylinder, the diameter is 1.75"
Boker USA is the only mark, very small on the lower leg in the picture, right about the grout line.

Geez, those are neat. I have no idea. They look like oil filter pliers

like Channellock makes.
Maybe more like A-N electrical nut pliers
which Crescent makes, though a search for “A-N connector” to find out WTF one of those is, leaves me as ignorant as I began. Utica made the pliers for them back in the day.

 

[RTM]

Geez, those are neat. I have no idea. They look like oil filter pliers

like Channellock makes.
Maybe more like A-N electrical nut pliers
which Crescent makes, though a search for “A-N connector” to find out WTF one of those is, leaves me as ignorant as I began. Utica made the pliers for them back in the day.

Yeah, I thought Cannon plug initially, but the 1.75" diameter seemed small, and my jaws are probably 1" or more thick, (top to bottom in pic)

I think "AN connector" is in the military aviation field, like a Cannon. I thought the Cannon was a similar shape, as I see pliers like you showed marked as Cannon. Last link I saw was a rectangular plug.

 

[Outlawmws]

Speaking of Boker, anyone have a clue what these pliers are for? No serrations inside the cylinder, the diameter is 1.75"
Boker USA is the only mark, very small on the lower leg in the picture, right about the grout line.

I'm thinking to hold some type of hydraulic body.. maybe a rebuildable shock or something.



I'm assuming these have a smooth inside surface?

 

[LesserSon]

Another thought: small engine piston ring compression?

 

[RTM]

I'm assuming these have a smooth inside surface?

Correct

 

[RTM]

Another thought: small engine piston ring compression?

Had crossed my mind, seen car sized online, didn't pay enough attention to function. Will see what I can Google.

 

[Skyman]

That's an interesting pliers. The fixed radii, with the slip joints, has me scratching my head about its intended application. But, it also leaves me doubting it could have been for piston ring compression.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Damn, would not have thought to look there.

No intuition involved. I quite accidentally solved the "TORO" mystery last year when looking through that 1917 catalog as soon as @Mark Stansbury notified the Bridgeport thread that it had been uploaded to IA/ITCL, rather excitedly here...

...and an entire line of Bernard pliers re-branded as "Toro"!

I never transferred the discovery to the Schollhorn thread where examples had been posted inquisitively before due to their unmistakable construction features. I figured future searches of GJ on "Toro" would turn up my info in the Bridgeport thread, but maybe I should plop it in the Schollhorn thread, too.

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are three posts on all my Mansco pliers. This first group has five pliers. The first three are all marked Mansco US Zone. That puts them between 1945 and 1949, Fist one is marked with 60-6 and has plain handles. The next one is also marked on the insides of the handles with Drop-Forged 166-6 and has a wavy pattern grip. Third one is marked 166-7 and also has the wavy grip. It is marked on the inside of the handles with Drop-Forged 166-7. The fourth one is marked 284-E2K-6 1/2 Western Germany, and has the wavy grip pattern. Inside the handles is Drop-Forged Steel. The last one is marked W Germany and 166-7. West (or Western) Germany was from 1949 to 1960 when it rejoined with Eastern Germany, becoming simply Germany again.

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are three posts on all my Mansco pliers. This first group has five pliers. The first three are all marked Mansco US Zone. That puts them between 1945 and 1949, Fist one is marked with 60-6 and has plain handles. The next one is also marked on the insides of the handles with Drop-Forged 166-6 and has a wavy pattern grip. Third one is marked 166-7 and also has the wavy grip. It is marked on the inside of the handles with Drop-Forged 166-7. The fourth one is marked 284-E2K-6 1/2 Western Germany, and has the wavy grip pattern. Inside the handles is Drop-Forged Steel. The last one is marked W Germany and 166-7. West (or Western) Germany was from 1949 to 1960 when it rejoined with Eastern Germany, becoming simply Germany again.

This is the second group of Mansco pliers. First on is Mansco 35-5 1/2 England. Second one is 1575-6 Germany. Third one is Mansco Germany. All have plain handles.

 

[Eric Brown]

This is the second group of Mansco pliers.

This is the third group of Manso pliers. These all have the fancy diamond grip pattern with rounded ends. (The Oxwalls are similar but have one rounded and one square end around the diamond pattern). First one has a 16? with Germany Drop Forged inside the handles. Second one is a 35-6 1/2 with the third being 35-5 1/2.

 

[Eric Brown]

Here are my Bruno Will pliers and cutters. The first three are marked with Bruno Will and DRGM. From 1891 to 1952, products manufactured in Germany might have been stamped with this D.R.G.M. designation, if the manufacturer opted not to pay the outrageous patent fees that Germany was charging, but instead chose to copyright their product’s intended way of use, or design. This copyright was initially for a period of 3 years, with an option to extend it for another 3. This gave the copyright owner a maximum of 6 years protection.

After WWII, Bruno Will turned the factory over to his son, Harry P. Will. Tools may be marked WILL, Harry Will, HPW and after 1990 reunification some different names. My little collection stops around the 1990 point in time.

Below are three groups. The first group of two are from the U.S. Zone, Germany, putting them in the 1945 to 1949 time range. They are basically the same except the first pair has side cutters, the second does not, and the second pair have cushion grips. The next group of four all have the wavy handle pattern and are marked: Harry P. Will 35-5 1/2, DK, second one Will Made in Western Germany, Third one is HPW W Germany and fourth Made in Germany. The first three are marked inside the handles with West Germany on one side and Drop Forged Steel on the other. The fourth pair is Drop Forged Steel inside both handles. The third group first one is HPW W Germany with the wavy handle pattern and Drop Forged Steel on one handle and West Germany on the other. The second one is marked Will, W Germany and has plain handles. Third one is Will, Made in Western Germany with wavy grips and 10000V insulated handles. You can see the wavy pattern under the orange handles. The fourth one is Will, Made in Western Germany with drop forged steel on the handles. These are a direct match to the Mansco ones shown earlier.

 

[Eric Brown]

German pliers marked with M.W. Weber Germany. I think these may have been made by P.L. Schmidt based on handle grip patterns. First one is a pair of needle nose also marked DRGM with Drop Forged Steel inside the handles. The middle pair are simply marked Weber Germany and are slip joints. The last pair is marked W.M. Weber Germany and are small linesmen. The last two pictures show the middle pair apart.

 

[Eric Brown]

More German pliers, these are by P.L Schmidt. Apparently the factory was completely destroyed during WWII. One source indicates the factory was rebuilt after 1947 but no examples found. Based on handle grip patterns, they probably made pliers for the United Hardware & Tool Company, maybe Weber, and others.

The first example below is a set of pinchers about 9" long. Many markings including the P.L. Schmit name and Elberfeld along with the Mason symbol of dividers and squares. Also marked PELES, Extra, 20, 4075 and Gesscmiedet Verstahlt.

Group of pliers, L-R: PL Schmidt Elberfeld Germany and Mason symbol. PL Schmidt Elberfeld with Germany on Handle side. PL Schmidt Germany Elberfeld on one side, Elbersmit 3994 on other. Next is a PL Schmidt 3697 on one side, PL Schmidt Germany Elberfeld on other side. Then PL Schmidt 3970 one side, PL Schmidt Germany Elberfeld other.

The next two pliers may have been made by Schmidt based on handle grip pattern. Left is a Crowncut Germany and a Lanco Germany.

 

[Outlawmws]

Two pair I picked up this AM:

Barcalo Dykes, and Knipex upholstery/leather pulling (Lasting?) pliers




And the grip patterns - the Knipex marked West Germany:

 

[Eric Brown]

Two more German pliers and one cutter. These are all marked Manufacturers Steel Company, Germany and the other side has US Zone, meaning they were made between 1945 and 1949. No examples from West Germany found. I suspect that Manufacturers Steel Company US Zone and Manufacturers Steel Corporation British Zone were consolidated and become Mansco, but no proof of that yet. These companies also made other tools including spiral ratchet screwdrivers and ratchet screwdrivers. Eventually Mansco was also made in England. There was also a Manufacturers Supply Company that became Mansco USA but other than the name no connection has been made.

 

[Eric Brown]

Need some opinions. Trying to figure out a couple of Fulton pliers. The first pair has a square opening in the jaws but haven't found any matches. There is no country of origin on this or the next pair. All I seem to find comparable is a Schmidt. They have similar pivots (shape, size, orientation) and grip patterns. The second pair also matches the grip pattern except for the diamond in the middle of the Schmidt. The last picture compares the first Fulton with a Utica 1300 gas pliers for the square jaw notch.

 

[LesserSon]

The square notch is interesting, shows up on some pliers, but I don’t know that catalogs bother to explain it.
I suspect it’s for turning a square stem on gas valves, but it could grip small cylinders.
I looked through some Utica cats for the 1300, but the 8” seems to be the only size with the square notch, and no explanation.

 

[Outlawmws]

For a plumbers Acetylene tank valve, which ties on with gas and burner pliers fairly well.

 

[Eric Brown]

For a plumbers Acetylene tank valve, which ties on with gas and burner pliers fairly well.

I agree with you and Lesserson that the square notch is probably for valve stems. The size seems right. Maybe this feature didn't catch on because most plumbers had adjustable wrenches? Still, I haven't found a match for the these pliers, with or without the square notch.

 

[four.cycle]

1/4" square openings were found on various wrenches for the purpose of turning on "Prestolite" headlamps.
Ronson's "9 in 1" wrench set incorporated a square opening into one of their wrenches for that purpose.
Several "combination tools" from the early 20th century also incorporate a 1/4" square opening.

 

[Eric Brown]

I agree with your Adoration. Now as to their use, I wonder if maybe these were heated, like a sad iron. Just a thought.

Was wondering about the Adoration pliers so I tried contacting a company. Here is the response:

Hi Eric,
many thanks for reaching out.
This is an antique hair curling or waving iron. The long tong-like handles are typical of early hair curling tools. The rounded ball-shaped end is the part that was heated.
These tools were usually heated over a flame or on a stove.
We produced irons like this among other items for our customer Morris Flamingo, under their brand name Adoration, from the 1920s onwards.
Hope this information is of interest to you.
With best regards

Katharina Kuhnke

*******************

Giesen & Forsthoff GmbH & Co. KG
Baumstrasse 36-38
42651 Solingen
Tel.: +49 (0)212 - 22286-19
Fax: +49 (0)212 - 22286-13


www.gf-solingen.de // www.vintage-shaving.de

AG Wuppertal HRA 19565
Managing Director Katharina Kuhnke

 

[WisJim]

1/4" square openings were found on various wrenches for the purpose of turning on "Prestolite" headlamps.
Ronson's "9 in 1" wrench set incorporated a square opening into one of their wrenches for that purpose.
Several "combination tools" from the early 20th century also incorporate a 1/4" square opening.

I've seen the 1/4" opening on bottle openers from the early 1900s also. Another way to have the tool always handy. But I guess we're getting a bit far from pliers.

 

[LesserSon]

Poking around a small borax museum in Death Valley, spotted these well-worn blasting cap crimpers behind glass. Could not make out any branding. Found very similar “No.1” models online, branded DuPont, Atlas, Hercules. “No.2” models include bypass cutters.

 

[Beerhippie]

For your viewing pleasure:







A small pair of CeeTee Jamestown. No other markings.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No other markings.

Probably has "H210" (the model number) forged-in on the handles near the pivot. The handles obscure and also tend to wear it down with opening and closing action.

 

[Beerhippie]

Some more rubbing with steel wool revealed this:



but nothing else. Owner's mark? SH? HS? S11?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That looks like an owner's mark to me.

I'm surprised there's no model number. I've had so many CeeTeeCo's I've lost count, but they all had the H26, H28 or H210 hidden under the handles near the pivot. Sometimes smooshed so flat by the handle action you can barely recognize them as numbers. You have to spread them wide open and even then you might just see the last digit or two, and you often have to take them apart to find the numbers, which isn't worth it. Not that important.

 

[Beerhippie]

That looks like an owner's mark to me.

I'm surprised there's no model number. I've had so many CeeTeeCo's I've lost count, but they all had the H26, H28 or H210 hidden under the handles near the pivot. Sometimes smooshed so flat by the handle action you can barely recognize them as numbers. You have to spread them wide open and even then you might just see the last digit or two, and you often have to take them apart to find the numbers, which isn't worth it. Not that important.

That area is worn to a smooth, shiny finish.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Often the case. Sometimes they're a little higher on the handle.

 

[Mintgrun]

For your viewing pleasure:

Those look familiar.