Facom Tools

[Cantause]

Hi R25_GTS

Sorry to see that you have some problems with your new Facom set!

I compared with my 1/4 set (R.2A) and half of what you say seems normal to me, the other one doesn't.

Play with socket+extension+handle: I have a few degrees of play, it makes little "clic" when I shake them but it doesn't sound like a bell , most of the play comes from the handle 1/4" square drive (mine has a square handle, not the new round one)

Socket finish: inner walls are chrome coated as the exterior, almost as smooth but less shiny, finish is identical from a socket to another.

Bit holder socket: From what you say everything is normal, the r.235 never has a magnet in it, even my father's one which is 20 years old has this "almost" circular spring retaining system. I noticed when I took a pic of mine that an end of the wire was also a bit out of the groove but it goes back when you put a bit in it so nothing embarassing.

<a href="http://s739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/?action=view&current=IMG_1178.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/IMG_1178.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/?action=view&current=IMG_1179.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/IMG_1179.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

PH/PZ bits: Mine have the same retaining cuts as the other bits so it doesn't sound normal.

<a href="http://s739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/?action=view&current=IMG_1182.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/IMG_1182.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I hope it helped you to compare with your set...

 

[Garage_Mahal]

What a bargain! I got this FACOM salesman's sample kit off of eBatty for $50.
Half-inch drive RJS.161 ratchet
Facom 601 and 603 hacksaws
257G automatic center punch
10 mm and 3/4" rapid combo wrenches in satin finish.

If you look closely at the full size picture, the canvas kit bag is made in the USA. One of these tools is on it's way to my Secret Santa recipient. The kit bag will be for sale in the classifieds soon. I'm keeping the rest. What do you think I should ask for the bag?

 

[R25_GTS]

Hi Cantause

Thanks for letting me know about yours. I have made some pictures and movies and i will post them tonight. My r.235 looks exactly like yours, i can relax now about this. I have also the old Enduro like 1/4 handle. But it has a lot of play, you will see in the movie, also the PH and PZ bits have the same part # like yours from the picture but the part number and Facom logo are not engraved in the bit, they are like painted with black paint. They don't have that groove for the retaining spring in r.235. The finish of the sockets it's ok on outside, also inside. But the bottom of the sockets it's not the same. The 14 mm one has the bottom like 3mm lower, like it was cut on a lathe. The groove on the side where the 1/4 square with the retaining ball enters is not small, just to fit the ball there, is up to top of the socket, it's long as the whole square side of the socket. The 14mm is the only one with a COO on it, it's France .I'm making a long description here because the pictures are a bit blurry.
Anyway, a will post more tonight with the pictures.

R25

 

[superautobacs]

Garage Mahal,

A YOU **** has been awarded to you.

 

[Theloniousmonk]

What a bargain! I got this FACOM salesman's sample kit off of eBatty for $50.
Half-inch drive RJS.161 ratchet
Facom 601 and 603 hacksaws
257G automatic center punch
10 mm and 3/4" rapid combo wrenches in satin finish.

If you look closely at the full size picture, the canvas kit bag is made in the USA. One of these tools is on it's way to my Secret Santa recipient. The kit bag will be for sale in the classifieds soon. I'm keeping the rest. What do you think I should ask for the bag?

Yea, you ****.

VERY cool bag too... congrats, I'll actually be interested in the bag when it comes up.

Oh, and nice 544 in photo stream.

 

[Garage_Mahal]

I thought I might **** a little with this deal. The retail price on the ratchet alone is around $50.

Monk, the 544 is my veterinarian's car. Make me an offer on the bag so I don't have to make up a classified. I can send more pics if you like. It is about 2 inches thick.

 

[ultgar]

I wonder why he writes that the Pro-Twist series is now from eastern europe while "France" is clearly visible on the screwdrivers ?? (see pic above)

Monte....thanks!! I have been telling people Eastern Europe as COO for the ProTwist and only noticed the "France" stamp on my stock after seeing your post.

Steve

 

[american lockpicker]

Do they make protwist pozidrivs?

 

[Monte]

Monte....thanks!! I have been telling people Eastern Europe as COO for the ProTwist and only noticed the "France" stamp on my stock after seeing your post.

Steve

eastern - western ... not a big difference

 

[dkroth]

Do they make protwist pozidrivs?

Apparently they do. Lifted from the Facom catalog:

 

[R25_GTS]

Hi again

I came back with some pictures and movies, sorry about the quality. Please let me know if this is normal.

R25

<embed src="http://img257.imageshack.us/flvplayer.swf?f=Phzt" width="480" height="380" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"/>

Handle and 14mm socket</a>

<embed src="http://img585.imageshack.us/flvplayer.swf?f=Pug1" width="480" height="380" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"/>

Handle + extension+socket</a>

<embed src="http://img695.imageshack.us/flvplayer.swf?f=Pqsa" width="480" height="380" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"/>

Bit holder + PH bit </a>

<embed src="http://img573.imageshack.us/flvplayer.swf?f=Puw4" width="480" height="380" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"/>

Bit holder +PH bit + extension</a>

 

[Jononon]

That isn't a Facom bit, the design's all wrong. It should have machined 'shoulders', notches in the drive portion of the bit and a deeply incised product number.

 

[R25_GTS]

I know the design it's wrong, it doesn't have the machined shoulder to be hold in the bit holder, the TORX and HEX bits are ok. The facom logo and part number it's on the other side.They are marked with black paint, not engraved. The metal it's the same as the other bits in the set and it holds well, i have tested them in a few screws. Only the PZ and PH look like that. The play in the 1/4 handle and the sockets it's mostly the problem as you can see from the videos. I'm worried if they are normal, to be like that, the people from facom's QC are blind or the standards are very low now and everything passes the tests.

R25

 

[tony p]

That's interesting, R25_GTS:

I have quite a lot of Facom - that and Beta being possibly the brands I have most of (although most of it I've had long enough that it is marked 'France' or 'Italy') - and that 1/4-dr spinner handle is perhaps the only really disappointing Facom item I've bought.

Mine came in a 1/4-dr set that I bought, new, at a very, very cheap clearance price - as an extra 'spare' set - but the handle is marked France whereas most of that set isn't. The handle itself, btw, is truly excellent if you have smallish hands, but the fit of the 1/4 sq drive is rather poor, although not quite as sloppy as yours appears to be.
Fit does seem to vary, brand-to-brand and within a brand - I keep an old Beta handle with my Facom sockets and and old Britool one with the King Dicks (Beta seem to have a handle that fits their own sockets very nicely though!).

Can't really see in your pics, but the insides of the 'new, non-France' 1/4 sockets is excellent - very finely finished, very smooth non-glossy plating.

Haven't experienced your prob with the bit-holder though; there are two types, btw: one for frequently-changed bits and one with a much firmer grip for rarely-changed bits.

Whether that means your items are rogues or rejects or that quality is becoming generally inconsistent - who knows?

 

[Jononon]

The play in the 1/4 handle and the sockets it's mostly the problem as you can see from the videos. I'm worried if they are normal, to be like that, the people from facom's QC are blind or the standards are very low now and everything passes the tests.

No, they're not normal (videos didn't load earlier), nothing you have there is of the quality you should expect from Facom. This is frankly a guess, short of being able to directly compare them to known real items, but, unlike the bits, they don't look like fakes. Possibly QC failures 'liberated' from the factory?

 

[Monte]

maybe a counterfeit ??

 

[Jononon]

maybe a counterfeit ??

Maybe, but the bit is a hopeless effort, whereas the extension looks real

Either way I'd send them back and, once I'd got my money back, send pics and the ebay vendor details to Facom.

 

[R25_GTS]

I don't think they are fakes, the good material is there, in every piece, just the sizes are not right, for a proper fitting. The handle and the 14mm socket are the only pieces marked "France" . I can't send them back, is was a private seller, not a company, I think i will pass them on.... and buy new ones from my facom dealer.

 

[Monte]

or try a different brand

 

[Cantause]

Monte is right, buy something else!

Facom only make pieces of sh**, your disapointment seems normal

That said, sorry to see that your set has been messed up by a crazy Facom machine

 

[superautobacs]

Sorry, but that first video made me laugh out loud.
That's clearly not normal. I'd be greatly dissapointed if those were legitimately sourced items from the various Facom/Stanley factories/distributors.

Like some have already noted, it's plausible that they were rejects pocketed by some individual?

 

[Jononon]

Facom only make pieces of sh**, your disapointment seems normal

 

[ultgar]

I pulled one of the newer spinner handles out of stock and noticed the same loose fit with the sockets. The older drivers in my sets have a very tight fit...the ball retainer fits tighter to the socket and the seat on the older drivers has a wider flange to stabilize the socket.

I wonder if Facom made the change intentionally (both early and late are still marked "France" on the driver handle) as the few degrees of wobble allows easier access in tight spots. When approaching a fastener straight on, I'm more likley to use a ratchet & extension or more recently, a compact 1/4' cordless impact driver (Makita or Bosch). SD

 

[Monte]

Then they should advertise them as "Wobble spinner handle".... A socket should fit on a ratchet/extension/handle without or only with minimal play.

 

[AussieDan]

My Fast wrenches:

I find I don't use them as much as I expected, but they do come in handy when you can't get a ratcheting box end into a tight spot!

 

[Cantause]

Yes, you heard me!!!

<a href="http://s739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/?action=view&current=IMG_1187.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/IMG_1187.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[Monte]

Nice Facom collection !

 

[dkroth]

Anyone ever had any trouble with those dark grey plastic cases? I've had a couple of them (1/4" sets) for several years. Every time I open them I check the thin plastic hinge for cracking. So far so good, but it's got to come apart somtime. I wonder if anyone else has had one fail?

Cantause, nice wallpaper.

<a href="http://s739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/?action=view&current=IMG_1187.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/IMG_1187.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[ultgar]

I agree ..started going through your pics and you've got quite a bit of
Facom (and other quality tools too). Mainly case and box sets....I didn't see any module sets. Steve D

 

[Cantause]

Nice Facom collection !

You already know about my addiction... I promise that I'll try some German drugs next year (I already do with power tools!)

Anyone ever had any trouble with those dark grey plastic cases? I've had a couple of them (1/4" sets) for several years. Every time I open them I check the thin plastic hinge for cracking. So far so good, but it's got to come apart somtime. I wonder if anyone else has had one fail?

Cantause, nice wallpaper.

My dad has a 1/4 set in box since 15-20 years, it's not the same as current box (light grey), hinges don't crack and have been used hundreds times. Facom seems to care about such things, at least they did in the past...

Thanks for the wallpaper, my mum choosed it for me when I was a baby
It's been years since we said we would repaint the room but we never did, I'm used to it now:
<a href="http://s739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/?action=view&current=IMG_1193.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/cantause/IMG_1193.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I agree ..started going through your pics and you've got quite a bit of
Facom (and other quality tools too). Mainly case and box sets....I didn't see any module sets. Steve D

Thanks, now I think I have a good "basic" tools kit, I start buying more specific ones.
I don't have any modules , I'm a student so spend 1000$ on a Facom roller cab wasn't in my list of tool priorities...
Anyway I'd prefer to have my tools in Lista's cabinets as you do in the garages you build. I'll always remember how amazed I was when I first saw the pictures from your website like 4-5 years ago, it's how I discovered Lista, thank you! Now it's not a matter of 1000$ anymore
By the way, do you think it's useful to have small height drawers from bottom to top of the cabinet? I was thinking about 3-4 low height (50mm or 75mm) on the top for tools and then drawers of 100-150 maybe more for bolts, spare parts... I may have the opportunity to invest in 2 or 3 like these next year (not very wide, to fit my budget) to make a new workbench, this configuration seemed ergonomic/economic to me, I wonder if it is in reality...

 

[pacsguy]

Here's my facom screwdriver collection! From a far and close-up...

 

[ultgar]

Anyway I'd prefer to have my tools in Lista's cabinets as you do in the garages you build. I'll always remember how amazed I was when I first saw the pictures from your website like 4-5 years ago, it's how I discovered Lista, thank you! Now it's not a matter of 1000$ anymore
By the way, do you think it's useful to have small height drawers from bottom to top of the cabinet? I was thinking about 3-4 low height (50mm or 75mm) on the top for tools and then drawers of 100-150 maybe more for bolts, spare parts... I may have the opportunity to invest in 2 or 3 like these next year (not very wide, to fit my budget) to make a new workbench, this configuration seemed ergonomic/economic to me, I wonder if it is in reality...

I like to use Lista's 2", 3" and 5" for the hand tools and air tools and 5", 7" and 9" for the larger case sets. I've moved a lot of my test equipment and delicate items to Tanos systainers.

I've also managed to accumulate a fair amount of Facom over the years....glad I got most of it before Stanley started shifting some of their production to Taiwan.

If I had to pick a new hand tool company now it would be difficult. Toptul offers a high quality high value tool but I find customers will opt for the Facom brand (regardless of where the tool is made) based on name alone. Snap-on and Mac have shifted quite a bit to Taiwan. Festool still appears to be all German and their pricing reflects this. Steve D

 

[Monte]

You already know about my addiction... I promise that I'll try some German drugs next year (I already do with power tools!)

very good !!

ps: i like your wallpaper too

 

[american lockpicker]

Wow those Poxis look just like the ones I had even down to the discoloured Facom logo on the middle one.

 

[Garage_Mahal]

Here's my facom screwdriver collection! From a far and close-up...

Looks a lot like mine, but where are the stubbies?

 

[Jononon]

Yes, you heard me!!!

Well played, sir.

 

[pacsguy]

Looks a lot like mine, but where are the stubbies?

Unfortunately, No facom stubbies for me!

 

[maxipouce]

@ r25gts
here are some pics from my f96 catalog

The bit is from the earlier "torsion" series, you should compare the size of the square end of the handle and the square end of the extension and maybe give us your measurements to compare with other stuff.

That extension is certainly made in taiwan and reminds me of the quality of the extensions of my NORAUTO 1/4 ratchet set.

 

[R25_GTS]

@utgar

Hi Steve, thanks for letting me know about the handles. Mine is also made in france, but i don't think the play was made as a wobble thing. They square doesn't have the look of a wobble one, is normal.
I think more and more i will go for the Toptul tools, i will buy only the Facom ratchets. Toptul is easy available here in Eastern Europe with a more than ok price. I don't do use my tools professionaly, just for regular car maintenance. I wanted to go with Facom for all my tools because i got a few 80'- 90' tools from them and was impressed about the quality and finish.

Since today there is no rule anymore for the tool company's and they can produce/import from anywhere without lowering the price just to increase the profit is not worth anymore to be loyal to one company, whatever the COO is on it. Just buy the best tool for the money you have and do your job. Is more likely to loose the tool than needing a warranty replacement.
The same thing goes also with cars manufacturers. More than 70% from a Audi car comes from outside Germany, so ....

@maxipouce

Hi, thanks for the picture. I have seen the bits also for sale on EBay France. The strange thing is where did my set came from? The ratchet is the new style, the handle old style, the bits seem even an older style.... weird.

It's a sad thing that old values slowly disappear, the big company's are going now only for big money, smashing years of history and the peoples who believed in them over time. But this is the world now and we need to adapt.

Thanks,
R25

 

[ultgar]

@utgar

Hi Steve, thanks for letting me know about the handles. Mine is also made in france, but i don't think the play was made as a wobble thing. They square doesn't have the look of a wobble one, is normal.
I think more and more i will go for the Toptul tools, i will buy only the Facom ratchets. Toptul is easy available here in Eastern Europe with a more than ok price. I don't do use my tools professionaly, just for regular car maintenance. I wanted to go with Facom for all my tools because i got a few 80'- 90' tools from them and was impressed about the quality and finish.

Since today there is no rule anymore for the tool company's and they can produce/import from anywhere without lowering the price just to increase the profit is not worth anymore to be loyal to one company, whatever the COO is on it. Just buy the best tool for the money you have and do your job. Is more likely to loose the tool than needing a warranty replacement.
The same thing goes also with cars manufacturers. More than 70% from a Audi car comes from outside Germany, so .... Thanks, R25

Things are tough with hand tools these days.....there is no more certainty as to country of origin and I suspect the cost accountants with these big companies will continue to shift production to countries with lower labor rates.

On this garage forum, there is a strong focus on country of origin yet people still want super cheap pricing. Its going to be tough to find 16pc screwdriver set, made in America or Western Europe for under $30-40. I guess people should continue to look for great deals on lightly used Snap-on, Mac, Facom and other items that were produced before the shift to Taiwan. There's still a lot of New Old Stock (NOS) in the marketplace. I'll definitely be holding onto my existing Facom sets that are out in the workshop. SD

PS - Toptul is the best of the Taiwanese tool companies I've seen so far. Sonic has some interesting products too and I like their foam module sets. Sonic is readily available in Europe but I don't know of anyone selling it here in the states yet. I wasn't that impressed with Genius or much of the JTC line.