Floor treatment - Would you do it again the same way?

[Harley Monster]

I am posting this in General Garage Discussion because I want to get real life stories and opinions after living with your floor for a while. The Flooring Discussion is mainly members asking what to use for their new floor, I want to hear from you guys that have been through that, made your decision and have been using your floor.

My garage is going to have 3 sections, one an RV storage section, one a storage section for completed cars and clean work and the third section is going to be what I call the dirty side where I will be welding, grinding, cutting, fabricating and servicing cars and trucks and have a lift.

I want a floor that I do not have to pamper, especially in the dirty side, I want to be able to roll metal casters, slide benches, drop things, weld, etc. without damaging the floor. I want the floor to be sealed against oil and grease too. I don't want to paint the floor.

I was pretty sold on the idea of using just a densifier and leaving it at that, but then I saw threads saying the densifier does not seal against oil and grease. I would like to hear from guy who used the densifier on the floor and used it a while.

I don't care if the floor is shinny, but I am not against it either. I just don't want a coating that will be damaged under hard use.

I have considered using a sealer in the RV and storage sections and use the densifier in the dirty side, but I also need the dirty side to not absorb oil and grease.

What have you done and are you happy?

 

[nissan_crawler]

I'm going on 9 years of Valspar/quikrete epoxy in my garage. Torching, welding, plasma cutting, grinding, you name it. It still works fine. No chips, no peeling. The only bare spots are where the back tires on the truck spin when I back it in the garage, and the front tires hit the lip of the floor.

Everybody else will tell you it's ****, though.

Personally, I think prep work is 95% of whatever you do. My garage floor was literally 2" deep in dirt, oil, grease, god only knows what. I filled my pickup bed half full after using a tile mutt to chip it all out (I bought it this way...). Almost the entire floor was stained.

I spent 13 hours power washing/scrubbing, and used 6 gallons of purple power, 2 boxes of tri-sodium phosphate, and a gallon of acid. I then let it sit for over a week before I coated it.

It's not a show finish, but I didn't try to cover up any floor blemishes either, I just didn't care. It's stayed stuck, and has made spill cleanup easy.

Would I do it again? Definitely...if I ever even have to. Maybe I'll consider recoating it in another 5 years, we'll see.

 

[Falcon67]

I used a Lowes two part gray epoxy product when I did my floor in 1997. I have no idea the brand. I let the slab sure while I built the walls, dried in the roof and put up the siding. I then etched the floor with pool acid, washed, neutralized with baking soda and let it dry a few days. I then rolled on the epoxy and let it set up 48 hours. Never an issue with it, and that includes parking race cars with warm slicks/wet slicks&tires, etc. In fact, over time there is actually rubber stuck to the floor where the race car would be parked. You can spray it with Berryman's B-12 killer carb cleaner and it just shines it up a bit. So if I can afford it, I will use a real epoxy on a floor again. I would consider a sealer for a larger work area if one worked well. Note that spilling oil, WD-40, etc on epoxy makes it slick for sure. But epoxy + sawdust = pratfall palace times 10.

I spent $60 in 1997 to do a 20x24, I expect that price would be about double today.

 

[tez929rr]

Commercially applied epoxy (2400 sq ft metal building)on new concrete floor 6 years ago. No-skid mixed in. I'd do it again. Probably use a less agressive no-skid. I'd have loved to go without the no-skid but I know I'd pull a car in out the rain and slide into something.

 

[Vicegrip]

Cheap, water based Rustolum 2 part epoxy. Battle scars from an active working home shop but still working great. Has some chips from dropping heavy stuff that knocked out spalls of concrete, some scars from dragging stuff or a rock getting pushed along under a caster wheel. No welding or plasma slag burns and no peel up from chemicals. I have done lots of roll cage and metal work. One tire pull up from a wet track tire that sat in place for a few days soon after the floor was installed but it looks like the cement under was shiny and not fully etched.

Considering it was a couple hundred bucks for 24X30 and one day to install I have gotten my moneys worth so far. The fact that I don't worry about having to protect my precious garage floor is priceless.

 

[A_Pmech]

Rustoleum epoxy kits here. Going on 10 years I think. At least 8... The floor isn't shiny and it has burn marks, a few stains, some heavy scuffing in places from moving multi-ton machines, etc.

However, it is easy to sweep, easy to mop, and spills wipe up with a rag. Most importantly, it is not a dark gray / brown color which ***** up all the light.

If the same product is available in 4-6 years when it is due for a re-coat, I would use it again.

 

[justanengineer]

My former employer paid top dollar for a crew to come in, grind the concrete (factory recommendation for maximum durability), and apply the epoxy. It lasted all of half a day in the machine shop before the decision was made to remove it due to scratches, chips etc from moving machines in on pipe rollers. The only thing tough about that floor was removing the epoxy.

My current personal rented garage had epoxy installed three years ago, had dirt permanently embedded in it from vehicle tires when I moved in, has more of it now, none of which will sweep/mop out. It also is significantly scratched/chipped to the point that my landlord jokes that he may not let me work on vehicles in there anymore.

Personally I hate it and you can see why. When I was in the military we used a simple floor buffer and scouring powder (think AJAX) to buff the concrete. It completely eliminated oil stains, tire scuff marks, and left the floor shiny enough to have a slight glare under the 20 ft high ceiling lights. Its cheap, easy, and you dont have to let it dry. IMHO that is definitely the way to go.

 

[Harley Monster]

Great responses so far, I want to hear about your floor treatment after actually using it for a couple years.

I get frustrated reading the ads for treating your garage floor, everyone has the "Worlds Greatest Product." I want to hear the admiration or criticizm after living with it for a while.

Would you do it again the same way? If not, what do you think you should have done?

I am leaning the way Justanengineer describes a perfect floor, plain concrete treated in some way the oil, grease, slag and abrasions will not hurt it. Something that will make it look "new" forever or at least a long time.

 

[Harley Monster]

I sealed a floor in a hangar about 18 years ago, several coats of sealer, several coats of polish, the floor looked great, a nice wet look and you could see the reflection of the airplane in the floor, BUT every tire that was parked on this surface left tire marks and does so to this day.

I don't want anything that will leave tire marks and I don't want to paint the floor.

I want a natural concrete look that will not scratch, chip or soak up oil. It doesn't have to be shinny, but shinny is ok if that is the way it has to be.

Have any of you found a product that will do this?

 

[54FordPanel]

I'm really happy with my epoxy floor. Grease, oil, even paint, wipes right up. I do get welding splatter marks though. But it's much better than bare concrete.
I'm doing my regular garage with Epoxy-Coat next week, because we get alot of sand/snow/mud after we park the cars in it, and it'll clean up much better. Sweeping an epoxy floor is easy.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Im happy with the professional epoxy job on my floor 2 years ago, i waited for a couple years after the house was built before having he floor done, until the warranty was up in case the slab cracked or excessivly settled or heaved.

If the epoxy ever start to look tattered, if im here that long, i reckon id cover it with Racedeck.

 

[tig]

5+ years on my epoxy floor.

Pros:

• Mostly durable. The ramps on my 4 post lift had caused a 2" section to tear up, but that's the only place where I've had any problem.
• Looks great.

Cons:

• Can't find sh** that falls on it. The gray & black paint chips make it IMPOSSIBLE to find small parts that fall.
• Slick when wet. I've pulled my groin out slipping on a spot that had soapy water on it
• Can stain. Note the yellow in the photo above. I got most of it out, but there are still some stains. Not sure whether this was anti-freeze, degreaser, or what...

If I were to do it over again, I'd follow Jack's lead and go with industrial tile:

 

[nate379]

Same deal with my floor. I don't have all that much $$ into it too so it's not the end of the world if I mess it up a bit. I just can't see spending several hundred dollars on something to protect the floor.

I'm going on 9 years of Valspar/quikrete epoxy in my garage. Torching, welding, plasma cutting, grinding, you name it. It still works fine. No chips, no peeling. The only bare spots are where the back tires on the truck spin when I back it in the garage, and the front tires hit the lip of the floor.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

If I were to do it over again, I'd follow Jack's lead and go with industrial tile:

I THINK Jack's going to chime in and remind us he (thinks!) he's cheap and that isn't "industrial" tile. It's Home Depot, low dollar stuff. But Iagree it looks great.

I've found it there as cheap as 57 cents a square foot. BUt mostly its in the 66 to 80+ cents per foot range. Its DEFINITELY what I'm doing when I fix my cracked, stained 80+ year old slab.

 

[TheGrooveking]

Umm...not to be a **** but the post directly before yours shows an epoxy floor with a rather large stain. Apparently it's not as perfect as you think.

That is not a stain, that is lighting related.

TheGrooveking

 

[slickgt1]

go with porcelain tile. Search for my thread, "can your floor do this". Tile is just the way to go. And I don't like to baby **** either. Just yesterday I was dragging 3/4" plywood, on the edge through the garage by myself. Dragged 25 sheets that way to cut them.

So far my floor has gone through the following and still no damage.
Lifted up half a car with metal floor jack, no protection under jack.
Jack stands on floor, no protection under stands.
Dragged engine hoist, and stand across the garage, multiple times.
Dropped rotor on it.
Dropped 25lb sledge out of pickup. Yea, almost **** myself on that one.
Do lots of woodworking so lots of wood has hit the floor.
Slid car ramps, with car on ramps by stopping too hard.

Tile cost .96c / sq ft.

There is more, but I feel like I'm bragging.

 

[brats.n.harleys]

i have the lowes epoxy stuff, did all the prep work per the instructions on the can, and would never use it again. at first i was real **** about the floor and would clean/mop all the time, i bought too much the first time and have since re coated it (last fall) already looks like **** again (stains) if you lift up the mat that is under my bike lift, its unbelievable how bad it looks compared to the part that is under the mat. i'm planning on re- doing the floor this summer and will either be doing tiles (cheap ones), or laminate wood flooring (wife wants new ones in the house, so the ones in the house might go in the garage)

 

[tig]

That is not a stain, that is lighting related.

TheGrooveking

No, it's a stain. It's my floor and it's a stain. Right lower 1/4 of the photo. Yellowish in color.

Epoxy can stain. Period.

 

[brats.n.harleys]

That is not a stain, that is lighting related.

TheGrooveking

ummm. he said it was a stain. ??

 

[tig]

go with porcelain tile. Search for my thread, "can your floor do this". Tile is just the way to go. And I don't like to baby **** either. Just yesterday I was dragging 3/4" plywood, on the edge through the garage by myself. Dragged 25 sheets that way to cut them.

So far my floor has gone through the following and still no damage.
Lifted up half a car with metal floor jack, no protection under jack.
Jack stands on floor, no protection under stands.
Dragged engine hoist, and stand across the garage, multiple times.
Dropped rotor on it.
Dropped 25lb sledge out of pickup. Yea, almost **** myself on that one.
Do lots of woodworking so lots of wood has hit the floor.
Slid car ramps, with car on ramps by stopping too hard.

Tile cost .96c / sq ft.

There is more, but I feel like I'm bragging.

Here's a link to SlickGT1's thread:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95966

Great thread, Thanks!

 

[Jack Olsen]

Yeah, my tiles are pretty cheap -- which is good, since I used a hammer chisel to remove a bunch this week and got a little carried away. Now I'm replacing about 45 of them instead of the originally planned 30. But they're still available for .68/sf at Home Depot, and the old ones and new ones match just fine.

Without grout, you can see how crazy the undulations are in my 86-year-old slab. I had to transition with the tiles from the wavey surface to a level square for where the lift sits.

It'll be prettier when it's done.

But all told, I love the cheap tiles. They're thicker than any epoxy, cheap, and seamlessly replaceable if they do break.

But as a rule, they don't break. You've got to use a jackhammer for that.

 

[A_Pmech]

I have to admit, I'm really warming up to the tile idea.

Tile in a machine shop would be snazzy!

 

[TheGrooveking]

ummm. he said it was a stain. ??

ummmmm, I was thinking it was the darker spot just to the side of the lift, coming off of the trough. So I stand corrected.

TheGrooveking

 

[nate379]

I can only imagine that tile price is based on region. At the Lowes and Home Deport here the ultra cheap tiles are $0.99 each and the mid range stuff is $2-3 each.

I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER do a tile job as big as my garage on my own. I did a wood stove hearth this fall, 4x5ft and I said I'd never do tile again after doing that! I'd rather pull all my teeth out with rusty made in China pliers.

 

[slickgt1]

LOL. Laying square tiles on a floor is a lot easier than laying stone up a wall.

 

[nate379]

By hearth I mean "pad".... raised area that the stove sets on.

 

[Jack Olsen]

I think the only 'easy' surface to install is Racedeck, probably. The tiles I'm putting in are inexpensive, but there is a fair amount of my time and effort in that floor now. Then again, if you're going to surface grind a pad for epoxy, you're also looking at a few Advil and maybe a Scotch at the end of the day.

 

[AndrewHR]

I haven't done my floor yet but i will be using rubber tiles. Stainproof, oil/water proof, non slip, wont crack. I can't find a downside to them.

 

[Vicegrip]

You might. Interlocking type tiles tend to leak some spills through, free floating tend to wander and scoot when you roll something heavy across them. Pressure in same place for enough time tends make the materal flow out from under the weight causing buckels.

I have thousands of Sf of tile in the dealer shops. They have some good and some bad to them. #1 bad, slippery when wetted with oils or glycols. #2 bad, grout. #3 bad, cracks, sinkholes and chips.

#1 good, hard to scratch or stain #2 good, no burn marks for the most part.

Use almost but not quite black grout with tile. It will end up almost black anyway, you might as well go with the flow.

 

[Milton Shaw]

30 years ago I worked at a new Firestone store that had a great concrete floor. It's a BASF topping mix called MasterPlate 200. Its a shake on topping that is applied while the concrete is being poured and finished. Then the topping is finished with steel trowel into a slick durable impervious surface. It will eventually show chips but nothing penetrates it. I checked on it when I poured my shop floor 20 years ago and it was about $1.50 a square foot at that time. These floors are still holding up at the Firestone stores after 30 years of heavy duty use. Go look at one if you don't believe me. The only problem has been where concrete has been cut to replace rusted out underground pipe and patched with regular concrete without the topping mix. There is a big difference in plain concrete and MasterPlate concrete.

 

[slickgt1]

By hearth I mean "pad".... raised area that the stove sets on.

Oops sorry about that. Why did you have so much difficulty?

You might. Interlocking type tiles tend to leak some spills through, free floating tend to wander and scoot when you roll something heavy across them. Pressure in same place for enough time tends make the materal flow out from under the weight causing buckels.

I have thousands of Sf of tile in the dealer shops. They have some good and some bad to them. #1 bad, slippery when wetted with oils or glycols. #2 bad, grout. #3 bad, cracks, sinkholes and chips.

#1 good, hard to scratch or stain #2 good, no burn marks for the most part.

Use almost but not quite black grout with tile. It will end up almost black anyway, you might as well go with the flow.

I agree, floating or click together floors, you will not be able to clean out the joints. These floors can also trap water and other garbage under them. You will also need to protect them when working with something sharp, or really heavy. Plus, they cost a **** ton.

They now have epoxy grout. It will not stain like the regular grout will.

A lot of finishes are slippery when wet with oils and glycols.

Crack and ships can happen with a lot of finishes. But to fix a messed up tile, all you need to do is take it out, and put another one in to match.

Look at my post, someone linked it above. Really hard to scratch, chip, or damage at all.

Whatever you choose will be fine. I just decided to sweat it out a bit, and get a permanent floor, done once. So far as the thread goes, I would not redo this floor, ever.

 

[robertwhite]

Rustoleum epoxy kits here. Going on 10 years I think. At least 8... The floor isn't shiny and it has burn marks, a few stains, some heavy scuffing in places from moving multi-ton machines, etc.

However, it is easy to sweep, easy to mop, and spills wipe up with a rag. Most importantly, it is not a dark gray / brown color which ***** up all the light.

If the same product is available in 4-6 years when it is due for a re-coat, I would use it again.

Any idea as to where I can find what you used? This stuff? (http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=16)

Did you put it over semi rough, semi smooth, or gloss smooth concrete?

And how many sq ft does a "kit" cover?

I have a large (2100+) floor to do and while tile would be nice, I am not looking to spend $2K to do tile. Hopefully, epoxy will be a whole bunch cheaper.

Also for anyone that knows, in what fashion do epoxy mfrs require a floor to be finished? (semi smooth, glossy, etc)

 

[A_Pmech]

Hi Robert,

The stuff I used is the "Professional / Industrial Solvent Base" epoxy:

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=14

The surface was hand trowel finished concrete prepped with Muriatic Acid. I would rate it as slightly rough, like 100-grit sandpaper.

I don't recall the coverage offhand, it's been a number of years since I put it down. At the time it worked out around $1 a square foot all-told, I think. The coating thickness is around 10-15 mils with two coats.

It isn't as thick or likely as durable as the pour-on floors produced by some of the suppliers here, but it is easy to clean with a dust mop. The main thing I wanted was an easy to clean surface that stays a light color. It will stain, burn and scuff, but I run a machine shop not a showroom, so it isn't something I really even think about.

If I don't do something crazy like pull out the machines and tile the floor, I'll probably recoat with the same product again in a few more years.

Any idea as to where I can find what you used? This stuff? (http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=16)

Did you put it over semi rough, semi smooth, or gloss smooth concrete?

And how many sq ft does a "kit" cover?

I have a large (2100+) floor to do and while tile would be nice, I am not looking to spend $2K to do tile. Hopefully, epoxy will be a whole bunch cheaper.

Also for anyone that knows, in what fashion do epoxy mfrs require a floor to be finished? (semi smooth, glossy, etc)

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I sealed a floor in a hangar about 18 years ago, several coats of sealer, several coats of polish, the floor looked great, a nice wet look and you could see the reflection of the airplane in the floor, BUT every tire that was parked on this surface left tire marks and does so to this day.

I don't want anything that will leave tire marks and I don't want to paint the floor.

I want a natural concrete look that will not scratch, chip or soak up oil. It doesn't have to be shinny, but shinny is ok if that is the way it has to be.

Have any of you found a product that will do this?

Monster:
Check out the Ryan's new garage:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100544

This same coating can be used to top an existing epoxy floor system as well.

 

[nate379]

Just a pain in the *** to get them square, level, flat, etc. They make it look easy on TV, that's for sure.... BUT I have been in MANY commercial bathrooms and the tile work is **** so maybe I just have better standards than most folks?

Oops sorry about that. Why did you have so much difficulty?

 

[keen]

I used V-SEAL Industra-Seal 117 on the floor when I built the new shop in Feb 2008. Unfortunately only -after- the door installers drove their truck, trailer, and fork around inside, so there are a few embeded tire marks....

The major claims are for distance to dusting, chemicals, and water. For that, I have no complaints - the few areas I couldn't treat (5 gallons was JUST shy of enough for the 30x42 floor, so I skimped under the base of the stairs, and the outside apron) are definitely dusty - but the rest of the floor is nice. Dirty, sure, but not concrete dust.

Doesn't do much good on impact or oil or paint stains, though.... Haven't had any particular problems with tire marks (the tractor WILL mark it, but I think they wear back off in time). Pencil and sharpie marks disappear over time pretty easily too (where I'd like to actually keep them... ;-), so come to think of it, it's doing better than I thought.

I wish I'd bought more and done the apron, but for some reason the extra $150 (for 5 gallons) just didn't sit with me. Even though I spent 45k on the damn thing by the time I had it wired and lit. Crazy, oh well.

 

[slickgt1]

Just a pain in the *** to get them square, level, flat, etc. They make it look easy on TV, that's for sure.... BUT I have been in MANY commercial bathrooms and the tile work is **** so maybe I just have better standards than most folks?

Yea its hard the first time you go at it. I'm not a tiler, but I watch tile guys work from time to time. Yea so first time I tried to tile I had a really hard time. My thinset was too wet at first, and the tile was sliding all over the place. Then I was using a wrong trowel. It was a mess. 9 square feet took me about 3 hours. I swore I would never do it again. I end up having to do small sections from time to time so that I can continue my work. So I got better at it. The detail sections still kill me though. But a flat floor, proper trowel, tile is fairly easy. Plus its quiet work, so I tend to enjoy it sometimes, especially when I am not paying a pro to do it at $4 per sq ft.

 

[buening]

For those tile advocates, what happens if years down the road you run out of replaceable tiles and that particular one is no longer produced? My point is to make sure you buy PLENTY of replacement tiles when you buy the tiles to do the floor, otherwise 10 years down the road you may find yourself in that situation.

For those that have done tile in their garage, did the floor have any settlement and cracking? My floor is a 20x22 and they didn't put any expansion joints, so the front part of the slab settled a little bit and cracked about midway on the floor. Curious how you handled the crack and tile, which I assume you just used a bit more thinset in that area to make up for the minor change in slope.

 

[slickgt1]

For those tile advocates, what happens if years down the road you run out of replaceable tiles and that particular one is no longer produced? My point is to make sure you buy PLENTY of replacement tiles when you buy the tiles to do the floor, otherwise 10 years down the road you may find yourself in that situation.

For those that have done tile in their garage, did the floor have any settlement and cracking? My floor is a 20x22 and they didn't put any expansion joints, so the front part of the slab settled a little bit and cracked about midway on the floor. Curious how you handled the crack and tile, which I assume you just used a bit more thinset in that area to make up for the minor change in slope.

How often do you expect these tiles to break? Seriously, I have maybe 5 tiles extra of each color. Maybe. If it does break, and that is a big IF, and I can't find exact tiles, then something similar will do. I feel it will just add character.

My slab did not have expansion joints as well a nice size crack. I stabilized the cracked section by drilling a **** load of holes in it, dug them out about 2 feet deep, nailed in re-bar, and pured in cement. So far so good.

My slab was messed up ********* too. Pitch was in all the wrong directions, low spots in the wrong places. I did a mud job under the tile to fix that. Had to pay a tile guy friend for that though. Now way I was going to mix that many bags of sand-cement by myself. You don't have to do this though. I did it because I like having stuff for easy maintenance. I can take a hose to my floor, and all the water drains out proper to the front. Sweeping is for women. lol. That was a joke you women, I sweep every day.

My renovation thread if you want to see pics.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90047

My tile durability thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95966

 

[DezRanger]

like A_Pmech used, i bought the Rust-Oleum EPOXYShield Professional Floor Coating. LOVE IT! i had to buy it on-line and have it shipped to my house homedepot stopped carrying it. my buddy was the one who originally used it and bought it at homedepot. When i weld and a piece of slag hits it, it will leave a small little BB size hole in the epoxy but has not started to peal or anything were these holes are.