The future of Craftsman?

[Fedwrench]

Craftsman has been discontinued at my local Base Exchange. Everything is reduced on its way out the door.

 

[Link-Belt]

Thing is I bought the 309 Pcs. set off e gay last week.When it came in almost every thing says USA on it except for the ignition wrenches even the 16 full Polish ratchet wrenches made in the USA. Today I went to Sears was going to get the full polished combo wrenches and they didn't: have USA on them so I passed and got the classic rps also picked up 42 pcs screw driver and a 4 pcs pliers set all made in USA.

 

[woody 73]

I don't want to sound like a broken record but I still feel the Craftsman name will never die if anything the name will get sold off.

You must remember we are but a small voice that love the made in the USA label the next time you have nothing to do walk into a sears store and talk with a few customers (I do it all the time);ask this question" is it important to you where the tool is made"? or is cost important to you?

Most people today will have no idea where the tool is made and most will not care about the coo. But on the other hand they want to save a ton of money so most will say cost is very important.

I do it all the time and maybe I find an old geezer like myself who thought the tool was made in the USA become very surprised at learning about the coo. Most people tell me saving money is the big thing!

 

[nyrapscalion]

Has anyone shopped in Sears lately? Don't dare ask for help finding something.. all I get is a blank stare? ' I'm looking for 1/2" drive stuff...6 point' It was like I was asking for a moon rock. No....Sears and I believe Kmart as well are done for.

 

[shoturtle]

That is more the store then sears as a whole. I have great customer service at 2 sears locations I goto, and decent at the other 3.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Has anyone shopped in Sears lately? Don't dare ask for help finding something.. all I get is a blank stare? ' I'm looking for 1/2" drive stuff...6 point' It was like I was asking for a moon rock. No....Sears and I believe Kmart as well are done for.

Went by Sears today to pick up a couple of things and place a web order....

No problems with service or getting the web order set.

 

[cbracer]

Ideal saids one the are going to building in the US. But they have been caught doing others things. At the end of the day, sk needs to post a profit, or ideal will have only two choices, close the division or off shore more production. It is business and they need to make money for ideal's investment.

What have they been "caught" doing, and when?

 

[back2class]

Sears seperated the Craftsman branding/division into a mostly stand alone company 3 years ago. Yes, still part of Sears, but easier to sell off, as the brand has great value as an asset (though declining). You don't read much about this here but sheds some light on what is going on. WHEN sears closes Craftsman will live on as a stand alone tool company or more likely be purchased by a larger entity like Home Depot or Stanley. In the mean time they will extract the most money they can by importing junk and hurt the brand value.....but the bean counters are looking at the next 5 years at most....as that is the average time people stay working or a company.

SK as mentioned is a possible bet....MY bet is they fail. I dumped a bunch of SK stuff here when they went out for pennies. May have been a mistake as they are now Ideal and making quality stuff. I hope they do great, but seeing how little they paid for SK, it shows how little a quality US brand is worth. My guess is SK will not be around in 10 years..but only a guess. We seem to have lost the DIY generations that allowed sears to sell metal lathes and such. We have a consumer throw away culture. You either have tool buyers who buy the cheap stuff or mechanics who buy top line. That leaves a small market for mid-line like SK outside of rare consumers or industrial buyers.

 

[shoturtle]

What have they been "caught" doing, and when?

I have some of their crimpers, on set made in the US, other set all the same marking but they excluded the made in the USA. I called them, they said it is not made in the USA, but did not tell me where it was made.

 

[nanofrog]

I have some of their crimpers, on set made in the US, other set all the same marking but they excluded the made in the USA. I called them, they said it is not made in the USA, but did not tell me where it was made.

Taiwan I suspect (most of the Asian produced units seem to be from there).

 

[eeprete]

The DIY generation is no longer. even with some of people from generation's past, there is perceived value in letting someone else, a "professional" do it.

Kids today, for the most part have very little interest in fixing things themselves and have even less interest in a quality tool or quality parts. Everything is too much work or too much effort.

I was in three different Sears home/hardware/appliance stores today, shopping for some closeout deals, there was not a single person under 35 in there except maybe the employees. All middle aged men or older men trying to pick up what is left of the remnants of a once quality brand.

One really interesting thing I found was how little discount there actually was on many of the items. Many of what was on the shelf, the prices even at 60% off were not much better than what a good memorial day sale or father's day sale would garner.

Although I tried to get what was left of the Craftsman Professional polished SAE wrenches in hopes of putting together a full set, but still need to locate 4-5 more.

 

[shoturtle]

Not really at 100 bucks and hour for labor in some area. There is always going to be a DIY group out there

 

[mmack66]

Thing is I bought the 309 Pcs. set off e gay last week.When it came in almost every thing says USA on it except for the ignition wrenches even the 16 full Polish ratchet wrenches made in the USA. Today I went to Sears was going to get the full polished combo wrenches and they didn't: have USA on them so I passed and got the classic rps also picked up 42 pcs screw driver and a 4 pcs pliers set all made in USA.

There is a gay version of eBay? You guys don't miss a trick.

 

[cbracer]

I have some of their crimpers, on set made in the US, other set all the same marking but they excluded the made in the USA. I called them, they said it is not made in the USA, but did not tell me where it was made.

Remember that SK used to be tied with Facom and I don't know of a single main US tool company (snap on, mac, matco, armstrong, proto) that makes their own pliers or screwdrivers. They all get outsourced. Heck some of the proto stuff is Facom relabeled and not made in the US. I know some tool companies farm everything out and don't make any tools themselves!

 

[shoturtle]

I have no problems with rebrands. But I would not hold my breath the Ideal will make everything in the US. As they do not, even though they said they want to keep production in the US. It is a global business environment, companies do what they have to to stay in business.

 

[camarotoolman]

From what I have seen, most of the stuff left in a closing store is just picked over stuff no one realy wants, 11/16" ,11mm etc. You can take it to an open store and swap or get a gift card but thats alot of hazzel and time spent.

 

[coolreed]

Future of Craftsman? I find it interesting that the local ACE Hardware Stores here in OKC, OK are selling Craftsman Tools. Apparently, and this is just my opinion, Craftsman is branching out to other stores to survive since Sears is getting ready to fold.

I sincerly hope Craftsman continues to exist as I have found Craftsman to offer very good value in hand tools and most other products they market. No they are certainly not Snap-On, but most of us cannot afford Snap-On tools. In addition, Craftsman has a very long history in the U.S. and I hope they continue to prosper and make good tools

Can I have an Amen Brother?

 

[mmack66]

Sears isn't getting ready to fold. Financially, they are doing quite well.

 

[powertrip]

The DIY generation is no longer. even with some of people from generation's past, there is perceived value in letting someone else, a "professional" do it.

Kids today, for the most part have very little interest in fixing things themselves and have even less interest in a quality tool or quality parts. Everything is too much work or too much effort.

I was in three different Sears home/hardware/appliance stores today, shopping for some closeout deals, there was not a single person under 35 in there except maybe the employees. All middle aged men or older men trying to pick up what is left of the remnants of a once quality brand.

One really interesting thing I found was how little discount there actually was on many of the items. Many of what was on the shelf, the prices even at 60% off were not much better than what a good memorial day sale or father's day sale would garner.

Although I tried to get what was left of the Craftsman Professional polished SAE wrenches in hopes of putting together a full set, but still need to locate 4-5 more.

There are a couple of USA made 13 pc sets still on the shelf at 2 sears by me.
SAE only, no metrics

 

[powertrip]

Sears isn't getting ready to fold. Financially, they are doing quite well.

My wife is a retail lease accountant for a very large mall ownership company. She sees the sales, lease contracts and financial shape of the tenants. Sears is doing well. Just because we dont like their website or asian made tools, we are a minority.

 

[shoturtle]

There are way to many wanting to see sears do badly on here. The ones I go to are busy on the weekend, and they sell allot of major appliances. The Cmans while allot of new stuff is made in asia. Their really are not real evidence that they are poor quality tools. Cmans is not making a pro line that much anymore. But I doubt that they were ever a big seller over their standard line. The high end buyers would look at more the truck brands, or proto and wright stuff then the craftsman pro. Cmans is marketing to their customer base. Which is something they really need to do to compete with the lower price HF stuff and husky and lowes.

 

[geologist]

Sears needs to fix itself internally, and the rest will follow. US made Craftsman would still be possible, and affordable, if knuckleheads in corporate weren't nickel and diming the Craftsman name into oblivion.

1.) Revamp the garbage website.
2.) Update the Point-of-Sale / checkout system.
3.) Keep the shelves stocked with US tools.

Profit.

Sears should take JC Penney's turnaround into consideration. The new "fair and square" pricing is nice and the stores are shoppable now.

If the Craftsman name gets bought out, I hope someone like Channellock buys it out. They used to have a line of ratcheting wrenches, sockets, etc. but they've discontinued them because the production was half-assed by another company.

 

[TwoInch]

I sincerly hope Craftsman continues to exist as I have found Craftsman to offer very good value in hand tools and most other products they market. No they are certainly not Snap-On, but most of us cannot afford Snap-On tools. In addition, Craftsman has a very long history in the U.S. and I hope they continue to prosper and make good tools

Can I have an Amen Brother?

 

[biscuit141]

I don't own every Craftsman hand tool available, but out of the ones I do own, the biggest quality issue I have found is with their sockets and ratchets, none of which are made by Danaher. While I haven't had any issue with sockets breaking, it is the finial fit and finish that I find lacking. I understand this has little to no effect on the strength of the tool, but it gives a misperception of a lack of quality. I have Craftsman pliers and their basic screwdrivers I like them both a lot. Maybe they just need to find a new supplier to manufacture their socket and ratchet lines. I know this probably won't happen, but it could have a big impact on Craftsman's perceived quality.

 

[otis66]

I just ordered some SK gear...come on guys, everybody go buy something from SK, we need to support this brand so I'll have good warranty coverage!

I already started.

 

[bcradio]

Here's a possible solution to bad Cman finishes:

1. Create the tool here
2. Ship to China or Taiwan for chrome plating and finishing
3. Ship back to sell

 

[shoturtle]

I don't own every Craftsman hand tool available, but out of the ones I do own, the biggest quality issue I have found is with their sockets and ratchets, none of which are made by Danaher. While I haven't had any issue with sockets breaking, it is the finial fit and finish that I find lacking. I understand this has little to no effect on the strength of the tool, but it gives a misperception of a lack of quality. I have Craftsman pliers and their basic screwdrivers I like them both a lot. Maybe they just need to find a new supplier to manufacture their socket and ratchet lines. I know this probably won't happen, but it could have a big impact on Craftsman's perceived quality.

the craftsman regular sockets are all made in the US by the danaher group. Danaher has not off sure the production of the sockets yet to my knowledge. Their pass through is a different story.

 

[shoturtle]

Here is a comparison of a craftsman 8mm 1/4 dr to an Armstrong 8mm 1/4 dr. They look pretty identical, expect the Armstrong is new and the craftsman has seen more uses as the armstrong is 2 weeks old, and I have not used them yet. Just that they do a little more then just anti corrosion the inside of the armstrong. The forge is most likely form the same factory, with just different chrome treatment and stamping.

And like all american chrome tools, the armstrong is brownish as well. Because of the EPA.

 

[shoturtle]

I don't own every Craftsman hand tool available, but out of the ones I do own, the biggest quality issue I have found is with their sockets and ratchets, none of which are made by Danaher. While I haven't had any issue with sockets breaking, it is the finial fit and finish that I find lacking. I understand this has little to no effect on the strength of the tool, but it gives a misperception of a lack of quality. I have Craftsman pliers and their basic screwdrivers I like them both a lot. Maybe they just need to find a new supplier to manufacture their socket and ratchet lines. I know this probably won't happen, but it could have a big impact on Craftsman's perceived quality.

Here is a better comparison of American Chrome with EPA standard vs Asian Chrome. Made in Taiwan Chrome is allot prettier, but it is a larger socket.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Sears needs to fix itself internally, and the rest will follow. US made Craftsman would still be possible, and affordable, if knuckleheads in corporate weren't nickel and diming the Craftsman name into oblivion.

1.) Revamp the garbage website.
2.) Update the Point-of-Sale / checkout system.
3.) Keep the shelves stocked with US tools.

Profit.

Sears should take JC Penney's turnaround into consideration. The new "fair and square" pricing is nice and the stores are shoppable now.

If the Craftsman name gets bought out, I hope someone like Channellock buys it out. They used to have a line of ratcheting wrenches, sockets, etc. but they've discontinued them because the production was half-assed by another company.

Don't look for Sears to go under anytime soon.

1sr qtr financials are due shortly. Sears will record a profit for 1st qtr. Albet it mainly comes from sale of real estate and closure of under performing stores. The positive outlook is same store sales will show a 1 percent loss. This is better than most retailers like kohls and nordstrom avergage of 3-4 percent which was what Sears was doing.

Look for JC Penny to show a 10-12 percent loss in same store sales.

Sears has a long way to go, but the rate of loss has slowed greatly. They have brought in some talented people to head key divisions and are getting into the hi tech game with the web to store thing. Once again they have a way to go to improve things and there will be growing pains. They are sitting on a good pile of cash, conducting some spin-offs, have a good real estate portfolio and a revolving credit line which for the post part doesn't come due for a few more years.

Retail in general, most companies are struggling. Home depot should look pretty good when they announce earnings. Just remember they too were looking bad and shuttered many stores a couple years back.

I'm not a fan of the off shoring of crafty tools, but if that's what they must do to survice in a very competitive retail enviroment then so be it. The fact is 98% of consumers don't care where something is made. They are concerned with what it costs right there and then.

I have a couple of taiwan crafty ratchets. I haven't had them long but they seem to be well made and about on par with some of my USA made ones. I'll reserve judgement on them after more time and use.

I would like my tools made in the USA but if that means paying snap on prices for IMO 'might' be a slightly marginally better tool, I'll spend money elsewhere. In the rare event I break a crafty tool it's an easy exchange where as the tool truck brands are more involved with more hoops to jump through

 

[shoturtle]

Actually even snap on has changed their chrome and proto.

 

[geologist]

Here is why Sears is going to ****:

Eddie Lampert maintains super-majority control over the company. Lampert controls 62% of the company, through a personal stake and his hedge fund, ESL Investments. Another 28% is owned or controlled by money manager Bruce Berkowitz. Lampert alone can force investors out due to the huge percentage he owns - it allows him to force the sale of stock from others, although Berkowitz has a large enough share to create a proxy war.

High activity in the small outstanding float, some 10% of shares, can lead to swings in the stock price. Much of that, possibly as much as 50%, is shorted.

Sears is tossing out the profitable Hometown / Outlet stores in a rights offering. Lampert has already mentioned that he plans to buy all the stock he can in the upcoming rights offering, and then add to his position, purchasing any left over from investors who choose not to participate.

So, he's slowly stealing the profitable real estate and divisions from shareholders who will be left with nothing once he's done stripping assets.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Here is why Sears is going to ****:

Eddie Lampert maintains super-majority control over the company. Lampert controls 62% of the company, through a personal stake and his hedge fund, ESL Investments. Another 28% is owned or controlled by money manager Bruce Berkowitz. Lampert alone can force investors out due to the huge percentage he owns - it allows him to force the sale of stock from others, although Berkowitz has a large enough share to create a proxy war.

High activity in the small outstanding float, some 10% of shares, can lead to swings in the stock price. Much of that, possibly as much as 50%, is shorted.

Sears is tossing out the profitable Hometown / Outlet stores in a rights offering. Lampert has already mentioned that he plans to buy all the stock he can in the upcoming rights offering, and then add to his position, purchasing any left over from investors who choose not to participate.

So, he's slowly stealing the profitable real estate and divisions from shareholders who will be left with nothing once he's done stripping assets.

I agree Lampert is a big part of the problem. Word is he doesn't play with others. Many hi level executives have come and gone since the merger with k-mart. Lacey(former sears honcho before the merger) doesn't have good things to say about Lampert, but then again Lacey's tenure wasn't stellar.

On a positive note perhaps, word is Lampert is stubborn enough to go down to his last penny to see Sears through to prove he knows what he is doing

Part of the stock buy up might be an attempt to take the company private. This may be a good thing as it makes it easier to attract investors through his hedge fund, thus improving cash flow and access to credit lines.


I haven't figured out his long term plan, hell no one has.

 

[cbracer]

Actually even snap on has changed their chrome and proto.

I'd challenge you to find a difference in proto chrome over the last 20 years......

EPA is not the reason why CM has darker chrome / nickel. They could chrome things the same as proto or SK but choose not to. I don't disagree that the EPA has come down and changed chrome in general, but that's not the reason CM couldn't do the same chrome as SK.

 

[Ridge Runner]

1.) Revamp the garbage website.

I wish. The old website worked pretty well, but how I loathe this new one.

 

[mmack66]

I'd challenge you to find a difference in proto chrome over the last 20 years......

EPA is not the reason why CM has darker chrome / nickel. They could chrome things the same as proto or SK but choose not to. I don't disagree that the EPA has come down and changed chrome in general, but that's not the reason CM couldn't do the same chrome as SK.

What is the reason?

 

[1982fxr]

What is the reason?

cost?

 

[nanofrog]

cost?

Assuming the chrome plating is done in the US, Yes.

Since the EPA passed stricter regs on hexavalent Chromium, it's become more expensive to use, while trivalent Chromium isn't nearly as regulated. Thus making it a cheaper alternative (it's just not as pretty as hexavalent).

 

[bcradio]

Assuming the chrome plating is done in the US, Yes.

And if USA is stamped on the tool, then the plating will have been done here.

 

[back2class]

I don't own every Craftsman hand tool available, but out of the ones I do own, the biggest quality issue I have found is with their sockets and ratchets, none of which are made by Danaher. While I haven't had any issue with sockets breaking, it is the finial fit and finish that I find lacking. I understand this has little to no effect on the strength of the tool, but it gives a misperception of a lack of quality. I have Craftsman pliers and their basic screwdrivers I like them both a lot. Maybe they just need to find a new supplier to manufacture their socket and ratchet lines. I know this probably won't happen, but it could have a big impact on Craftsman's perceived quality.

We must live in an odd parallel universe. In my universe all the sockets are Danaher made and are identical to .002" as they are no broached. On the other had their regular sdcrewdrivers are horrible **** that bend like rubber.