customcab
Well-known member
Hey E-tek, now that I've seen the Canadian heads, you HAVE to go with the flattie. That will be sweet. Good luck, Phil
E-tek Restorations: PROJECT THREAD
- Thread starter e-tek
- Start date
HOTFR8
Banned
In Australia all we had are Canadian heads on our Sidey (Flathead) Engines in fact I would say most Sidey Engines would have been built in Canada for the Aussie (Ford) market. Due to the fact Canada was another part of the Commonwealth and it was easier to bring Ford parts from another part of the Commonwealth than the USA at the time.
Man I got some GIANT ANTS in my pants!!!!
Pneumonia is pretty much gone and the projects have been idle for a bit. Luckily I've got LOTS of time coming up with the kids going to the farm and a month off coming. I'll likely finish up the Cougar and get on with the 240Z floors - I'll feel better when it's a roller again!
I just picked up a set of Model T wire wheels and steering column for my long-term rat project too, giving me even more motivation to get the other stuff moving...
Pneumonia is pretty much gone and the projects have been idle for a bit. Luckily I've got LOTS of time coming up with the kids going to the farm and a month off coming. I'll likely finish up the Cougar and get on with the 240Z floors - I'll feel better when it's a roller again!
I just picked up a set of Model T wire wheels and steering column for my long-term rat project too, giving me even more motivation to get the other stuff moving...
HOTFR8
Banned
Oooooh rats. Filthy things. 
I hope you have not mentioned that word over on the HAMB.
I hope you have not mentioned that word over on the HAMB. HOTFR8
Banned
Been down that road..... When I type over there I am careful say "Rod". not Rat!
Never liked Rat Rods, never one for trends for that matter although with colors I was just ahead of the trends and I have to admit I did like the Pro Stock style T Roadsters. Never read about a Rod that has a 350/350 either but a Sidey or something different in the engine bay will stop me in my tracks.
Keen to see how you progress
Some more stuff I got:
Wire wheels for the rod:
Quite an upgrade from original
All these years I've made do with a small parts washer and a baby-wash bin (you can see it in the background) for washing parts....finally cracked the safe and bought a biggie...
It'll come in handy with these lined up:
But let get back to the project at hand first (finally!):
The old bondo was thick enough to use an air chisel!
...along with some clean-up with the grinder:
Found underneath, holes from a slide hammer repair:
Had to do some fancy hammer and dolly (and widget and vice grip) work to get the wrinkles out of the inner fender and get the floor to look stock again:
Scraped out a ton of undercoat they used to to and hide the wrinkles left after the "repair"....
There was a lot of surface rust under all that undercoating, so O ground most of off, then treated it with MetalReady:
Of course the kids are off school now, so I still found some time to play Dad and even let Colt drive Grandpa's scooter!
Wire wheels for the rod:
Quite an upgrade from original
All these years I've made do with a small parts washer and a baby-wash bin (you can see it in the background) for washing parts....finally cracked the safe and bought a biggie...
It'll come in handy with these lined up:
But let get back to the project at hand first (finally!):
The old bondo was thick enough to use an air chisel!
...along with some clean-up with the grinder:
Found underneath, holes from a slide hammer repair:
Had to do some fancy hammer and dolly (and widget and vice grip) work to get the wrinkles out of the inner fender and get the floor to look stock again:
Scraped out a ton of undercoat they used to to and hide the wrinkles left after the "repair"....
There was a lot of surface rust under all that undercoating, so O ground most of off, then treated it with MetalReady:
Of course the kids are off school now, so I still found some time to play Dad and even let Colt drive Grandpa's scooter!
HOTFR8
Banned
What are the new wheels off ?
don long
Well-known member
E-tek for some reason I thought you were a "computor nerd"
Man was I wrong I have read through this entire thread and was
so enlightened to find out the truth
I must admit that this old dog has learned a few new tricks from you
conserning resto stuff cuz I'm an old bodyman from the 60's
Thanks for openly sharing
Don
Man was I wrong I have read through this entire thread and was
so enlightened to find out the truth
I must admit that this old dog has learned a few new tricks from you
conserning resto stuff cuz I'm an old bodyman from the 60's
Thanks for openly sharing
Don
MP&C
Well-known member
Next up - quarter sections:
Ed, now that the bulk of the rust/bondo is cut out, how well fitting/accurate are the quarter panel patches above?
I thing they would be off a Model A, somewhere in ab out 1928-1930.
I spent my formative years in my Dad's shop in the 70's, then trade school in the 80's. I was out of it until about 1998, when I decided to get back into it as a serious hobby and learn as much I could about the newer practices - of course the newest metal-work practices are the same ones used since the 1940's!!
Not real well, but nothing some heat, a hammer and a dolly won't cure. The original metal is still warped from earlier damage, so getting that back to normal will help marry the two.
As for the inner drop-off, they cut it about 4-6" longer than required, which is OK as one can trim to fit once the outer panel is in the right place.
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Not even close... I'm sure there are tons of other 'lurkers' like me who love reading about the restorations, but whose knowledge and skill level for this type of work is so limited in comparison we just don't feel I have anything meaningful to add!
Other than
MScott
Well-known member
I thing they would be off a Model A, somewhere in ab out 1928-1930.
Actually Ed, if you are speaking of the wheels in post #768, I think those are from a later (32+) Ford. The V-8 emblems in the hubcaps indicate that they are not Model A.
HOTFR8
Banned
Actually Ed, if you are speaking of the wheels in post #768, I think those are from a later (32+) Ford. The V-8 emblems in the hubcaps indicate that they are not Model A.
He is correct Ed they are not A model if they have the V8 logo.
Time for some catch-up...
Started by fitting up the trunk drop-off:
Then the outer (the screws go in the portion that will be cut out prior to welding):
Here you can see that the lines along the wheel opening arch don't match up. Once confirming the patch is in the right place (in addition to using the metal around the patch and the rear filler panel, I measured from body lines vs the other side, measured up from the floor, then confirmed it all by eye from behind) I could see where the line should be. I rolled it in along that line with the hammer and dolly to match the width further up.
Once it's all set up, I ran my cut off wheel down the top of the patch panel - which will give me the right gap for a **** weld:
The holes from the screws got cut out here:
In checking the wheel arch with the ruler I saw it needed some tweeking before welding in the patch. In many shops this would just be filled.
Getting there...
Now instead of the screws, I used panel clamps, these ones from Eastwood.
Also had to fab up a few pieces that didn't come with the patches...
The one at top right is done, with spot-weld holes drilled, The other is for the wheel well, just starting:
I always re-install any panels that attach to the part I'm making/repairing. Body lines, holes and welds must all line up before welding it solid:
First pass ground. The drop off was trimmed once, needs to be trimmed even with the outer panel once welded in:
From the inside. Once I final weld and grind it'll take very little filler to make the repair disappear:
A good start - you can see the crease from the previous damage more than the weld line. A bunch of hammer and dolly work will get it all smoothed out and minimize any filling.
The owner came by tonight and he showed me some of the other spots that had been previously repaired. I'll have to remove the filler in those spots, weld up the slide-hammer holes and metal-finish them best I can. He's got the interior being done and is working on the suspension parts. Going to be cool to see it all come together at once.
Started by fitting up the trunk drop-off:
Then the outer (the screws go in the portion that will be cut out prior to welding):
Here you can see that the lines along the wheel opening arch don't match up. Once confirming the patch is in the right place (in addition to using the metal around the patch and the rear filler panel, I measured from body lines vs the other side, measured up from the floor, then confirmed it all by eye from behind) I could see where the line should be. I rolled it in along that line with the hammer and dolly to match the width further up.
Once it's all set up, I ran my cut off wheel down the top of the patch panel - which will give me the right gap for a **** weld:
The holes from the screws got cut out here:
In checking the wheel arch with the ruler I saw it needed some tweeking before welding in the patch. In many shops this would just be filled.
Getting there...
Now instead of the screws, I used panel clamps, these ones from Eastwood.
Also had to fab up a few pieces that didn't come with the patches...
The one at top right is done, with spot-weld holes drilled, The other is for the wheel well, just starting:
I always re-install any panels that attach to the part I'm making/repairing. Body lines, holes and welds must all line up before welding it solid:
First pass ground. The drop off was trimmed once, needs to be trimmed even with the outer panel once welded in:
From the inside. Once I final weld and grind it'll take very little filler to make the repair disappear:
A good start - you can see the crease from the previous damage more than the weld line. A bunch of hammer and dolly work will get it all smoothed out and minimize any filling.
The owner came by tonight and he showed me some of the other spots that had been previously repaired. I'll have to remove the filler in those spots, weld up the slide-hammer holes and metal-finish them best I can. He's got the interior being done and is working on the suspension parts. Going to be cool to see it all come together at once.
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HOTFR8
Banned
Nice progress.
machine_punk
Well-known member
Nope...I'm watching too. While I love the work you do, some of the specifics (like specifics about a particular engine) just don't mean much to me (I didn't grow up working on cars). I truly enjoy your posts and updates which include sheet metal repair, though. There, I at least understand what you are doing (I took a 5-day course on building and repairing vintage Jaguar sheetmetal), even if it would take me years to get to the level you work at.
Please keep posting!
M_P
MP&C
Well-known member
Ed, progress is coming along nicely. I did notice a spot in the wheel opening that may need addressing (back to our discussion of poorly fitting reproduction panels) where it looks like the leading edge of the wheel opening of the replacement part doesn't match that of the car, note what looks like an "inside corner" at the joint. It appears that the leading edge of the repair panel may need to be tweaked with a hammer and dolly to produce a more flowing radius along that edge, but probably best to match the opening to the other side of the car to be sure (if you haven't cut that out yet....) As you well know, cheaper to fix before paint goes on. Hard to tell in the later pics if you already got to this or not, so thought I'd see if you did......
Keep the posts coming, you'll be back on the model T before you know it!
.
Keep the posts coming, you'll be back on the model T before you know it!
.
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You're absolutely right Robert - you obviously have an experienced eye. Part of it was that the area where the wheel arch meets the patch panel was still pushed in and just filled. As you would know - but for those reading - the patch panel came off several times to repair the areas that didn't fit and in this instance, the original area was rolled out and the patch was rolled in to give that gentle contour through the area.
Of course, some shaping is sometimes best done AFTER the patch is welded in - working the entire area with hammer, dolly, slap file, etc both during and after the welding process.
Thanks for the input!
Of course, some shaping is sometimes best done AFTER the patch is welded in - working the entire area with hammer, dolly, slap file, etc both during and after the welding process.
Thanks for the input!
HOTFR8
Banned
Whilst on the subject of reproduction panels that do not fit. A fellow rodder not far from me got a set of reproduction running boards (from a well known US firm) for a car he was working on only to find they had been made to an odd size than original. (bigger one end than the other I believe 
). Now just think of the work to make them fit.
). Now just think of the work to make them fit. Whilst on the subject of reproduction panels that do not fit. A fellow rodder not far from me got a set of reproduction running boards (from a well known US firm) for a car he was working on only to find they had been made to an odd size than original. (bigger one end than the other I believe
A lot of the patch panels I've seen over the years look like they've been formed over a stump, with a sledge hammer
HOTFR8
Banned
A lot of the patch panels I've seen over the years look like they've been formed over a stump, with a sledge hammer
These running boards will require alterations to the front and rear guards (fenders as you may call them) on both side of I believe a 35 Ford sedan.
Once it's all set up, I ran my cut off wheel down the top of the patch panel - which will give me the right gap for a **** weld:
Sooo in a **** weld the panels don't actually **** against each other?? I have always read and heard you can't fill in a gap that the metal must be touching.
Sorry if that is a stupid question my inexperience has me at a disadvantage.
Sooo in a **** weld the panels don't actually **** against each other?? I have always read and heard you can't fill in a gap that the metal must be touching.
Sorry if that is a stupid question my inexperience has me at a disadvantage.
First off - the only stoopid questions are the ones that don't get asked!
Reason you DO want a gap is that the metal always moves and expands a bit with welding. If you actually had them **** right up against each other you'll find they can buckle and warp above and/or below the weld. Another thing I like to do to alleviate this issue is to put several tack welds at that seam before doing any plug welding at the other ends (wheel well and bottom), so that any movement can occur without constriction.
Of course you need to find the really thin cut off wheels because you are partly correct - you don't want to have to fill in huge gaps with weld either - but for no other reason than it's difficult and can end up messy! The panel clamps I'm using give about a 1/32" gap.
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The Cougar has been in a major rear-ender at some point in it life, where the end panel was replaces and the quarters where buckled. From the outside, the repairs were well-hidden and it looked OK with all the parts on. Once it was taken apart for restoration however, there are a lot of signs of a poor initial repair - or shaky foundations if you will. This leads to rust issues (slide hammer holes, welds holes left open), fitment issues (panel overlap, changing gaps, thick filler) and more.
Below, you can see how the end panel had been replaced and didn't quite line up. As well, the welds had been drilled or broken loose and then not re-welded. The entire panel was tacked on with fewer than 6 welds.
Here are some of the many slide-hammer holes that were filled over with filler. This can allow moisture to enter from the backside and allows rust to start behind the filler.
The trunk floor was still pushed up against the wheel well, which would mean that somewhere between here and the end panel was shorter than it should be.....somewhere.
The filler was thick enough in places I could use the air chisel to remove it. Like doing sculpture work. Behind this chunk were 5 or 6 slide hammer holes, again only filled by filler.....
Below, you can see how the end panel had been replaced and didn't quite line up. As well, the welds had been drilled or broken loose and then not re-welded. The entire panel was tacked on with fewer than 6 welds.
Here are some of the many slide-hammer holes that were filled over with filler. This can allow moisture to enter from the backside and allows rust to start behind the filler.
The trunk floor was still pushed up against the wheel well, which would mean that somewhere between here and the end panel was shorter than it should be.....somewhere.
The filler was thick enough in places I could use the air chisel to remove it. Like doing sculpture work. Behind this chunk were 5 or 6 slide hammer holes, again only filled by filler.....
MP&C
Well-known member
The Cougar has been in a major rear-ender at some point in it life, where the end panel was replaces and the quarters where buckled. ......Below, you can see how the end panel had been replaced and didn't quite line up. As well, the welds had been drilled or broken loose and then not re-welded. The entire panel was tacked on with fewer than 6 welds.
Ed, the Mustangs of that vintage had a rubber gasket on the perimeter of the tail light where it sealed against the inside of the rear panel, and typically would hold water for the eventual rust around the tail lights. Do you think this may have been a similar replacement of the tail light panel, or is it obvious body damage? I see some green paint there, is that the original stuff?
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machine_punk
Well-known member
Are you thinking twice about fixing the cougar?!?! (or is this a customer's car?). If it is yours, is there an emotional bond with the car, or would it be better to find a new candidate for repair?
Oh...I spent the weekend at the Cuesta Metal Meet, in Central California...so I spent the whole weekend with hot rodders, while they were learning to shape metal. I did a presentation for them on using solid rivets in their projects and spent the weekend refreshing my metal shaping skills.
M_P
Oh...I spent the weekend at the Cuesta Metal Meet, in Central California...so I spent the whole weekend with hot rodders, while they were learning to shape metal. I did a presentation for them on using solid rivets in their projects and spent the weekend refreshing my metal shaping skills.
M_P
Carguy99
Well-known member
nice work sir. I figure if i get a door ding its totaled. Body work is something I know nothing about. But I would like to. What I has thinking is to get some junk panels and try. is this a good idea???
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
The Cougar has been in a major rear-ender at some point in it life, where the end panel was replaces and the quarters where buckled. From the outside, the repairs were well-hidden and it looked OK with all the parts on. Once it was taken apart for restoration however, there are a lot of signs of a poor initial repair - or shaky foundations if you will. This leads to rust issues (slide hammer holes, welds holes left open), fitment issues (panel overlap, changing gaps, thick filler) and more.
Below, you can see how the end panel had been replaced and didn't quite line up. As well, the welds had been drilled or broken loose and then not re-welded. The entire panel was tacked on with fewer than 6 welds.
Here are some of the many slide-hammer holes that were filled over with filler. This can allow moisture to enter from the backside and allows rust to start behind the filler.
The filler was thick enough in places I could use the air chisel to remove it. Like doing sculpture work. Behind this chunk were 5 or 6 slide hammer holes, again only filled by filler.....
That's one reason I didn't mind quitting bodywork on others vehicles. You never know what you will run into. And I've run into quite a few that had bondo better than an inch thick. Two that come to mind are a '69 Nova I did for a guy. He was going to do the bodywork and I was to spray it. He backed up the mud with shop rags and steel wool
The other was a '67 Chevelle. The rear quarter had a few bubbles under the paint. He told me that the car was all original and never had any body work done to it. I grabbed the grinder and with an 80 grit disc, started to grind the rust bubbles. Holy Chit!!!!Metal mending tape stretched from the wheelwell opening to the back bumper and probably up 12" or better and all covered with bondo. As soon as I hit it, it caught and ripped all of it out of there. With a lot of car and their owners, you find a lot of makeshift stuff going on.
It's a friend/customers car. It's actually in decent shape and once we get these things sorted it'll be in excellent shape. Like a woman who uses too much make-up: there may be a nice person under it all, just need to get her to tone it down a bit!
Now that sounds like fun! Great way to trade skills and knowledge. I sure wish I could attend some metal-meets somewhere. Mrs E-tek tried to talk me into giving lessons, but there's still a difference of a few orders of magnitude between what I do and the "Covell"-types!!
The green is original and the end panel replacement is consistent with other damage indicating it'd been rear-ended. After a clean up and some re-working it'll be a nice 30 year driver.
I think it's a great idea and something I've done many times. In fact I still do! On that 27 Model T I bought, I won't use the fenders, but I will likely hammer, weld and shape some of the damage out - just for shits and giggles.
He backed up the mud with shop rags and steel wool
That must've been sweet and, unfortunately, fairly common. My '67 Galaxie had the "butchers trifecta" going on when I bought it: Rags, steel wool and cardboard all backing up major amounts of bondo....fun stuff.
machine_punk
Well-known member
The Metal Meet concept would be perfect for you (go to the metal meet forum on the web, become a member, and find one in your area).
It is just a bunch of guys getting together in a local area to learn metal shaping and repair together. Usually someone with access to a decent shop hosts the metal meet, they charge about $50 for the 3-day weekend. For the price of admission, you usually get breakfast and lunch, sheet metal for your projects, access to amazing tools to try out, and expert advice and help as you learn to shape metal.
They get the local pro's (Ron Covell was supposed to come to the Cuesta Metal Meet I just attended. Another local pro gave a LONG demonstration on metal finishing. Kent White and Lazze routinely go to the Santa Cruz Metal Meet.) or serious amateurs to come and give classes and bring equipment to try out. Some attendees are in the car business. Some guys walk in knowing nothing and walk out with a gas tank, or other project, they made themselves the first weekend. If I remember correctly, the "Big" Metal Meet (where people come from all over the world) is in Oblong Illinois, at the Crawford County Fairgrounds...which is at least in the correct state, even if it isn't right next door.
M_P
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PCO6
Well-known member
What ... no tin foil?
I did the front end of an MGA once. The body to fender seams are notorious for rust. Someone before me patched the body by taping on about 10 sq. in. of tin foil then loaded about 3/4" of filler on top of it. That same car had concrete trowelled into the frame to repair another common rust spot. Omphaloskeptic
Well-known member
I could never figure out if some 'craftsman' who do bodywork are just lazy, simply ignorant, some kind of a con artist, or believe in their heart-of-hearts that they are actually doing excellent repairs. I know time is money to some, so they rush the job with every '****-craft-shortcut' they know and push it out the door. With some guys, they make sure they have at least their 'six-pack-beer-glasses' firmly in place before they enter their shop. Other reasons might explain why some people do such '****-craft', but for the life of me, I don't know how they can sleep at night; must be a lack of pride, ethics, or conscience.
bgott
Well-known member
I've read that all of those "classic" cars you see in street life photos of Cuba are repaired with chicken wire and concrete.
Good chats boys, now back to the projects.....
First, the 331 I'm rebuilding - before:
Looking much better now.
Now, back to the Coug'!
Had to blow out the entire shop after removing this filler...
The bottom part of the inner fender needs rebuilding:
As usual, I started with cardboard, then transferred to a near-flat piece of metal cut from the remainder of the firewall section:
I'll be getting a lot done this month as I've got 4 weeks off from drug -dealing. Hoping to get the bodywork done- or close to it - so it can go to paint. Then a 40 Ford is supposed to come in, mostly for final prep and assembly.
First, the 331 I'm rebuilding - before:
Looking much better now.
Now, back to the Coug'!
Had to blow out the entire shop after removing this filler...
The bottom part of the inner fender needs rebuilding:
As usual, I started with cardboard, then transferred to a near-flat piece of metal cut from the remainder of the firewall section:
I'll be getting a lot done this month as I've got 4 weeks off from drug -dealing. Hoping to get the bodywork done- or close to it - so it can go to paint. Then a 40 Ford is supposed to come in, mostly for final prep and assembly.
Hello all. Just came across this great project and I do realise I'm commenting on some old stuff. Just a few comments - all natural does not mean safe (feed your kids arsenic, mercury or lead and see what I mean) - sand blasting is banned in many regions because of silicosis of the lungs (end of discussion - ha almost) - safer to use garnet or glass beads if you have to blast. For slow projects - try using a molasses soak on rusty bolts - brackets etc to remove rust (look it up out on the Internet). Nice truck. Take care and have a nice day all.
^^^^^ OK then Moby.....
Finished up the lower inner piece:
After setting and fitting the inner drop-off, I tacked on the outer patch panel:
Sometimes you need the looong grips!
Plug welding the edges:
First round of grinding, followed by some planishing. Due to the previous damage it looks like I'll need to put a few torch-shrinks in to tighten up some of the high spots:
You can sorta see the high and low spots from the inside:
I'll remove some more of the old filler from the quarter so I can see where the old damage is holding the metal up, but I don't really want to remove it to the top of the quarter, as it's in decent shape....and that'd just make a lot more work where it's not really required. In cases like this you have to strike a balance between finishing the new repairs so as not to require a half inch of filler, but still having to blend the new repair into the old filler....
***Here's where I'd like to hear what you do Robert! ****
After a few hours of that, I took a quick break to apply more pentrating fluids to the head studs on the early FH block. You can see I have a torque wrench on the stud puller so that I don't exceed the breaking point (apparently 65-75 ft-lbs) of the studs when twisting them out.
Finished up the lower inner piece:
After setting and fitting the inner drop-off, I tacked on the outer patch panel:
Sometimes you need the looong grips!
Plug welding the edges:
First round of grinding, followed by some planishing. Due to the previous damage it looks like I'll need to put a few torch-shrinks in to tighten up some of the high spots:
You can sorta see the high and low spots from the inside:
I'll remove some more of the old filler from the quarter so I can see where the old damage is holding the metal up, but I don't really want to remove it to the top of the quarter, as it's in decent shape....and that'd just make a lot more work where it's not really required. In cases like this you have to strike a balance between finishing the new repairs so as not to require a half inch of filler, but still having to blend the new repair into the old filler....
***Here's where I'd like to hear what you do Robert! ****
After a few hours of that, I took a quick break to apply more pentrating fluids to the head studs on the early FH block. You can see I have a torque wrench on the stud puller so that I don't exceed the breaking point (apparently 65-75 ft-lbs) of the studs when twisting them out.