TopTul > ??? Why No Proof?

[john w]

just got off the phone with mike. ordered 6 ratchets - 3 for me and 3 for donation to my community college's auto tech dept., where they will be used for ratcheting, hammering, concrete dinging, as ufo's, and if they're really lucky they'll take a bath in the hot tank with somebody's engine parts. i figure this is one way to get an indication of toptul reliability in severe service applications!

 

[chammyman]

as far as I can see theres only been 1 person thats actually got a problem with Mike no one else.

That person seems to be one of those people who do what they can to bring others down that are doing better for themselves.

 

[Stuey]

as far as I can see theres only been 1 person thats actually got a problem with Mike no one else.

That person seems to be one of those people who do what they can to bring others down that are doing better for themselves.

There's nothing wrong with being overly cautious. Perhaps the guy that was a bit too harsh didn't see Mike's previous comments and posts.

I mean, forgetting everything you know about Mike from garagejournal and taking a look at his store, most responsible shoppers would definitely hesitate a bit.

 

[chammyman]

yeah i know what you mean but this was talked about not long ago in another thread and Mike covered the issues with it (stock, basket etc etc)

Now a few of the board members have the tools maybe Mike should get some feedback and reviews on his site about them, he has only 2 at the minute.

 

[terabyte]

Thanks for the support everyone. This IS fun for me and I enjoy boxing up orders for you all very much.

I think the hand written note was a very nice touch dude. You really know how to earn people business.

 

[wrenhandtools]

They are more reviews all the time right on this site....
I figured easier than going to my site since so many people think my site isn't 'good' enough yet.

 

[wrenhandtools]

Tera, you are welcome. Wish I knew "who" you were though I think I have an idea.

 

[terabyte]

Tera, you are welcome. Wish I knew "who" you were though I think I have an idea.

Ha ha. I'm Jose from Florida.

 

[wrenchr]

If you are going to have a discount Mike please let me know. I want to try a 3/8 ratchet out.

 

[Hip2u77]

Damn, you guys need to relax. You're way too defensive. This was nothing personal towards Mike at all, just an idea for a fun little test to help get an idea of Toptul's quality.

I know companies can have a bad run of products, but in general either the metal is going to be stronger or weaker. I figure a few different tests would show a pattern one way or the other. (IE Nissan broke 4 Snap-On breaker bars before buying a Mac, which didn't break. Bad run, or maybe the Mac are actually stronger? I'm buying a Mac.)

By the way, it was Snap-On's head-to-head video between the CT4850 and IR's WR360 that gave me the idea.

 

[Stuey]

Maybe Mike's customers should fill out a review of his service and store via resellerratings.com...

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Wren_Hand_Tools

That could go a long way towards reassuring newcomers about his good business practices.

 

[jay50]

Mike,

I'll be placing an order tomorrow. Just don't let the other tool-whores on GJ buy you out before I get my order placed....LOL

 

[paramudduck]

ni(x)it aren't you supposed to be stalking Merkava 4?

I can't keep up with stuff on this board.

 

[Merkava_4]

ni(x)it aren't you supposed to be stalking Merkava 4?

LOL!

I tried to kill'eem by running over him with my tank treads, but there's no killin' the dude; I think he's made out of solid silicone rubber.

 

[PowderKeg]

Well Mike, I've been eyeballing a few odds 'n ends on the Toptul site for a short while, just haven't gotten off my **** to order them yet. Guess I'll have to give you a call Friday and see what on the list you've got available. Any particular time in the late afternoon/evening that's best for reaching you?

PK

 

[wrenhandtools]

Powder.....anytime! Might be easiest for me if you send and email to me with wants and I'll get back with prices...the discount....and availablity. Include your address and I can get a shipping estimate as well.

Stuey, thank you for the advice, but I gotta be frank....why go to another site when there are reviews available here?? I haven't the time to be chasing all over to many different sites.

 

[wilbilt]

Craftsman/Sears has a no fuss warranty and stores significantly convenient to the majority.

That is not necessarily true, depending on where you are. My experience with the Craftsman "warranty" has been quite frustrating.

 

[paramudduck]

Merkava is this what happened?

or was it this,

Yes I stoled the pics from another forum.

 

[rhandwor]

I ordered 10 60ipr five star torx plus tamperproof from Mike. My friends and I are going to try them out. I hope they are good products? I will post if excessive problems are noted.
I think the rest of the people will also. If he didn't have a decent product this is the wrong place to sell tools.

 

[paramudduck]

Very true some of the folks on here get down right nit picky about stuff.

 

[Crasen]

There are a few tools I would consider buying to try out of toptul actually offered them. Maybe a set of angle wrenches. A large deadblow hammer. Possibly some crowfoot wrenches. I could not find any of the products that came to mind when browsing through the website. All things I would expect from a professional tool company. It is not Mikes fault by any means. If the company does not make them not much he can do.

 

[Stuey]

Stuey, thank you for the advice, but I gotta be frank....why go to another site when there are reviews available here?? I haven't the time to be chasing all over to many different sites.

It's just a suggestion to keep in mind for the future.

Resellerratings is very beneficial for consumers looking for info and reassurance about unfamiliar stores, and as such, it helps those stores as well. Petra's Tech Shop is a great example of how this system can work to everyone's favor. On the home page, he points to his listing on resellerratings. Much of his success began with the support of one particular forum community, and with so many satisfied customers' reviews, unfamiliar shoppers are put at ease which translates to more business.

 

[wrenhandtools]

Stuey - Roger that.

Crasen - The make a mid size dead blow HAAB1038 $12.57 Crow foot....nope.
Angle wrench......more specific or description???

 

[dirty old man]

I got this from the previous distributor's Myspace. It's probably one of the photos referred to earlier in this thread.

 

[krusty the clown]

i'm not sure that proves anything in the real world. the obvious question would be at what point in the test did the toptul bend and at what point did the snap on break.

 

[dirty old man]

It's hard to read, but the closed end: Snap-On=47.555 kgm Toptul=55.356 kgm

Open end: Snap-On=28.813 kgm Toptul=28.348 kgm

or something like that. Like I said, it's hard to read.

 

[Crasen]

Stuey - Roger that.

Crasen - The make a mid size dead blow HAAB1038 $12.57 Crow foot....nope.
Angle wrench......more specific or description???

This is what I mean by an angle wrench. They can really come in handy when working in tight areas. http://tinyurl.com/angle-wrench

 

[vssjim]

I have bought some Toptul stuff and been happy with the tools in my daily work but I have also watched "Trading Places" many times and still don't understand how they buy and sell in the pit so you may have to make a post to explain that as well to keep everybody happy. I really do like the movie alot when Jammie Lee shows us what costs money in her house, you don't have any of those for slae in catalog either.

 

[Stanger]

That wrench test is pretty impressive if it is accurate. It not only withstood more force, but it didn't break like the Snap-On. At least it showed a sign of failure. I have an old USA Blue-Point that is broken just like that Snap-On. Poor engineering there.

 

[Torque1st]

The point is, that's like saying if you launch a Chevy at a concrete wall at 300 mph, it compresses 13 inches versus the ford compressing 14 inches. Honestly, who cares? It's never going to happen in the real world. Does the test data mean jack? No.

Nobody on here has broken one of the Toptul ratchets. That means they work as they were designed to do.

Testing would be almost impossible, you would need numerous ratchets of each kind, you couldn't do it by hand, you would need some sort of mechanical (most likely hydraulic) rig to test them that would ramp up the pressure via a timer, so each test was the exact same, etc. All that so he can sell a few more $15 ratchets? The price is on par with JUNK tools, and of good quality. If you like them, buy them, if not, don't worry about it.

Gee, I designed and built some hydraulic machines like that to torture test tools for a couple of major tool companies a number of years ago. I programmed them so they could torture test ratchets by torquing them to some value then moving N# teeth then torquing them again for thousands of cycles. It would test a 1/4" rathet on up to 1" drives and would twist off a 1" drive like Play-Doh. The guy that built the tooling and frame for the machine twisted off a 1" drive playing with the machine one day.

 

[wrenhandtools]

VSS.......that was AWESOME!!! lol

Crasen.....nope....I don't have those at all yet.

 

[ossaguy]

Hey Mike,
I live on the west coast ( San Diego ) Do you know what stations will carry your show? Could you post the info here on the GJ when it happens?
Thanks!
Steve

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

Mike,Do you also ship USPS or just UPS?

 

[wrenhandtools]

ossaguy...yes I can tell you if you remember to ask me sometime in the new year. My agent is working on it as we speak but nothing will happen until the new year sometime. Maybe longer, I probably only have 6-8 listeners anyway!!!!!!HA !!!Oh and you can go to www.smartinvestingshow.com and listen to archived shows if you REALLY want to torture yourself.

Neal....yes if for some reason we're talking real heavy but still fitting in the largest flat rate box.....or real small and putting something in a padded envelope then yes. Other than that, UPS and USPS are pretty competitve .....usually.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Craftsman/Sears has a no fuss warranty and stores significantly convenient to the majority.

Damn, you guys need to relax. You're way too defensive. This was nothing personal towards Mike at all, just an idea for a fun little test to help get an idea of Toptul's quality.

I know companies can have a bad run of products, but in general either the metal is going to be stronger or weaker. I figure a few different tests would show a pattern one way or the other. (IE Nissan broke 4 Snap-On breaker bars before buying a Mac, which didn't break. Bad run, or maybe the Mac are actually stronger? I'm buying a Mac.)

By the way, it was Snap-On's head-to-head video between the CT4850 and IR's WR360 that gave me the idea.

4 Craftsman, 2 snap-on.

It's hard to read, but the closed end: Snap-On=47.555 kgm Toptul=55.356 kgm

Open end: Snap-On=28.813 kgm Toptul=28.348 kgm

or something like that. Like I said, it's hard to read.

kg-m to ft-lb is x 7.233 That means 344 ft lbs for the Snap-On, and 400 ft lbs for the toptul.

It looks like the standard length Snap-On, which is 10 inches. Now, we all know you don't apply force directly at the end of the wrench, the center of your hand is in a good 2". So, you're applying the force around the 8" mark.

That means you would have to exert 516 ft lbs to break the snap-on, and 600 ft lbs to the Toptul wrench to break them. How many people can do that? Pretty much NONE.

See what I mean about pointless testing?! The fact that the Snap-On broke first (although I admit surprising and impressive) is really a non-issue. The test only proves that the Toptul wrench is a quality product, not that either wrench is inferior for their intended job, because they'll never see that force.

Gee, I designed and built some hydraulic machines like that to torture test tools for a couple of major tool companies a number of years ago. I programmed them so they could torture test ratchets by torquing them to some value then moving N# teeth then torquing them again for thousands of cycles. It would test a 1/4" rathet on up to 1" drives and would twist off a 1" drive like Play-Doh. The guy that built the tooling and frame for the machine twisted off a 1" drive playing with the machine one day.

In that case, you know how expensive it would be to test it, and the amount of tools you would have to run through to get a good standard, which would be 100% cost prohibitive to a part time tool dealer. Get my point?

 

[Ryan]

ni[x]it is entitled to his opinion.

That said, Mike is really going out of his way to support this forum... and I love him for it.

 

[Frank Elson]

4 Craftsman, 2 snap-on.



kg-m to ft-lb is x 7.233 That means 344 ft lbs for the Snap-On, and 400 ft lbs for the toptul.

It looks like the standard length Snap-On, which is 10 inches. Now, we all know you don't apply force directly at the end of the wrench, the center of your hand is in a good 2". So, you're applying the force around the 8" mark.

That means you would have to exert 516 ft lbs to break the snap-on, and 600 ft lbs to the Toptul wrench to break them. How many people can do that? Pretty much NONE.

See what I mean about pointless testing?! The fact that the Snap-On broke first (although I admit surprising and impressive) is really a non-issue. The test only proves that the Toptul wrench is a quality product, not that either wrench is inferior for their intended job, because they'll never see that force.



In that case, you know how expensive it would be to test it, and the amount of tools you would have to run through to get a good standard, which would be 100% cost prohibitive to a part time tool dealer. Get my point?

agree totally.
Day to day work will prove something, fancy testing proves nothing but the test equipment.

 

[Stuey]

agree totally.
Day to day work will prove something, fancy testing proves nothing but the test equipment.

Fancy testing tells you a lot about the quality of the materials and the production process. Such testing cannot substitute for real-world testing, but it can tell you a lot about what could happen at extremes.

 

[T56 Impala]

1. I only need the proof I have on hand. I took a chance and bought some tools from him. Whats the worst that could happen? I'd be out $26.00. Big deal!

2. Now, I haven't read all the reviews of these tools. I did post up my take on them before and after using them. I never said they were competition for the big brands like Snap On, Mac, Matco. The reason? I don't use over priced tools like those. I'm not a pro only a weekend warrior. They are, at the very least, as good as the Craftsman Pro line tools. (at about 1/2 the price too)

3. I have never had trouble contacting Mike. I don't know him from Adam. He is the best Internet seller that I have ever run across though. He has replied to EVERY email. He has initiated email contact. He has given me his home phone number without me even asking!

4. You may THINK I sound like someone who knows the guy or is maybe in on some part of the deal. I assure you I am not in any way shape or form associated with him or the company he represents. I was simply looking for Quality off shore tools. Quality being the key word here. He has supplied them and I am willing to, for free, speak well of him. Trust me, if the tools had been ****, you would have heard about it!

5. Stop thinking everything is a scam on the Internet. Some folks are trying to do honest business via a new medium. More power to him. I hope he succeeds.

6. You want your own proof that the tools are good. Open up your wallet and spend a few dollars and get it yourself. Judging from your comments, I doubt you would be fair in your judgements though.

I'll tell ya what. YOU buy one of his 1/4" 72 tooth ratchets . Compare it to one of your choosing. When you are done, I'll buy it from you for the same price you paid for it. Shipping included. Whatta ya say?

 

[Stanger]

nissan, I agree that that much force PROBABLY won't be applied. However, if you are a heavy dude and you like to jump on your wrenches(seen it done), then that test could factor in.

The real issue with that test is not the force that caused the failure, but the way the Snap-On failed. The Toptul deformed, which is good. The Snap-On just broke(and at a lower force). Wrenches should be made to give a failure warning. The Snap-On looks like it was too brittle and not ductile enough and just snapped. The Toptul provided the proper warning.

That being said, how else do you want to test these tools? I want to see quantitative data, not "this is a good wrench, trust me." So, what type of testing would you propose? These are good tests of the engineering IMO. I'm sure this is very similar to how the tool companies themselves test in a lab.