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Outlawmws

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Haha I just used hakko as my example because that is what I have the most experience with and it's affordable. I have no doubt that there is much better to be had out there. :thumbup:


Stop feeding the troll guys. He's proven he's either obtuse or deliberately trolling.

It takes guts (Or stupidity) to troll and derail the thread of the owner of the Forum in a thread Titled WELLER SOLDERING GUNS to spew nonsense about a tool for a completely different purpose than a soldering gun...
 
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J.harris

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Easy? No. But not entirely impossible (could pull the passives with an iron, and even easier with hot tweezers; damn BGA's would be another matter though). :p

BTW, when you say "iron", are you strictly referring to the unregulated fire sticks, such as those you can find in a Radio Shack?

Haha you're right! No should I be calling it something different? I'm referring to my hakko 936.

Steve please show me these capacitors you keep referring to, they must not be the electrolyics I'm used to working with.
 

kc-steve

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Stop feeding the troll guys. He's proven he's either obtuse or deliberately trolling.

It takes guts (Or stupidity) to troll and derail the thread of the owner of the Forum in a thread Titled WELLER SOLDERING GUNS to spew nonsense about a tool for a completely different purpose than a soldering gun...

Yeah, I've about had it with these guys who think they know something and have no shame about it.

Steve
 

J.harris

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Stop feeding the troll guys. He's proven he's either obtuse or deliberately trolling.

It takes guts (Or stupidity) to troll and derail the thread of the owner of the Forum in a thread Titled WELLER SOLDERING GUNS to spew nonsense about a tool for a completely different purpose than a soldering gun...

They all do the same thing, I'm not burning wood with my hakko here.

All I'm wanting to get across is that a modern soldering station such as a hakko 936 can in every way solder better than a 1960's hunk of plastic with a big transformer in it.
 
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WWIIjeep

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You also cannot solder the older larger wired stuff with a soldering iron either. Think watts. :D
If you try, it'll take forever and you risk cold solder joints.

^^^ +1

Most of the electronics I work on are vacuum tube circuits and large power supplies--'40s vintage stuff and older. Sometimes, even the ubiquitous 145/210W Weller D-440 isn't enough, and then my go-to is the 240/325W Weller D-550, which is a little bigger and heavier all around than the D-440.

But really, if you're going to use a soldering gun, shouldn't it look like a gun? :lol:


 

Outlawmws

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They all do the same thing, I'm not burning wood with my hakko here.

No, they don't. you go wind some 12 gauge solid core wire together and TRY to actually get a solid soldering job on it with that 25W hakko. You can't. It takes a tool that can produce the watts, and a good gun can do just that. A light weight soldering station can't, and will probably self destruct if you tried.

And you still haven't gotten the point troll. Ryan made this thread to discuss older Weller soldering guns compared to the new guns, or did you not bother to read his whole intro?

Again, apples and oranges. I have several soldering stations and one of mine will make your Hakko look like the toy it is. for the $$ it costs new, it better.
 

nanofrog

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Stop feeding the troll guys. He's proven he's either obtuse or deliberately trolling.
Neither is the case.

I used to be under the incorrect impression it was solely about watts as well (need more heat, use a more powerful iron/gun). But after spending time with more experienced engineers, they showed me there was more to it (practical stuff not taught in any university course or lab).

If you're interested, send me a PM, and I'll send you some links as to what I'm talking about (regulated stations & different heating technologies they're using).

And BTW, the first Weller I ever got, was the type of gun the thread started on (these are unregulated BTW). Current model is a WD1 w/ WP80 & WMP irons (80W & 65W; 80W unit is slower to heat & recover, but the additional mass in the tips allows it to make good joints on larger connectors & wire where the smaller WMP would choke, which was made for SMT parts, not Thru-Hole).
 

JJThrasher

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No, they don't. you go wind some 12 gauge solid core wire together and TRY to actually get a solid soldering job on it with that 25W hakko. You can't. It takes a tool that can produce the watts, and a good gun can do just that. A light weight soldering station can't, and will probably self destruct if you tried.

That's easily doable with any decent solder iron. It doesn't take some over powered and over priced gun to make that happen.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 

trainer

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A soldering gun is a repair tool, not a production tool. in most cases I can have my soldering gun out and the job done, cooled off and put away before any soldering iron will heat up.

IN the past week I used mine to replace a circuit board -mounted jack on a guitar amp and then to splice longer 10 guage leads onto a battery charger.

If I was building complete circuit boards or splicing a large quantities of wire, then different tools would be called for.
 

captaindiode

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One other point, a gun will be hot in seconds, compared to an iron which will take a few minutes to heat. And the gun will also cool down much faster so you can put it back in the tool box and move on while your still waiting for the iron to cool down. If you have never used a gun, you can't compare it to an iron. It was never meant for printed circuits, but is perfect for old tube amps and radios. I still use mine to solder wires or other connections that need lots of heat.
 

JJThrasher

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If your solder iron takes a few minutes to heat up, something is wrong.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 

Davefr

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One other point, a gun will be hot in seconds, compared to an iron which will take a few minutes to heat.

Not if you have a decent iron. This guy will go from ambient to 850 degrees in 30 seconds and shut itself off at any period I program into it.

x2scrap2.png


It does 90% what a gun can. If I need more heat I usually bypass the gun and go straight to an old fashioned big American Beauty style of iron.
 

kc-steve

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I understand what you "latest technology" freaks are trying to say but you guys still don't know what us old tech guys are saying.

Do any of you soldering iron "rocket scientists" know what a cold solder joint is? If you do, then do you know what it can do in UHF circuits or even high powered DC circuits? (as noted in my electrolytic capacitor example, tin can style)

I rest my case. :rocker:

Steve
 

LEVE

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Note the transformers! They're not just for helping set temps. They're there for current isolation from the AC line.... that can pop discrete components. I've two Wellers, a gun type and a soldering pen. I like both of 'em.... I've had them for 30 years and they still work great.
 

marty_p

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So why exactly did this thread have to leave the simple merits of vintage Weller solder guns? :soapbox:
 

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Mark in Indiana

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I have three of the Weller "guns", all from that era, and all still as reliable as ever.
Of course, there are no more electronics stores around where you can walk in and buy tips, bulbs and solder, but it is all still available online.

I just checked Amazon. It looks like they carry them.
 

Bull

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I got this bad-boy from my wife's grandfather:



It looks lightly used. The last time I tried to use it, though, it seemed like the tip wasn't getting hot. I'm not sure why...?
 
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Outlawmws

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Bull, make sure the tip nuts are clean and tight and he tip at the nut end isn't grodey. It makes all the difference in the world.
 
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Bull

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Bull, make sure the tip nuts are clean and tight and he tip at the nut end isn't grodey. It makes all the difference in the world.

I'll check that stuff, maybe snap some pics, and report back. Thank you.
 

kc-steve

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Outlaw beat me to it, but I will add that copper corrodes so clean the tip and it also probably needs to be dressed.

Steve
 

steve58

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I worked for a pinball machine co. back in the late 70's to mid 80's and we used weller soldering irons and guns, they worked great.

About 5 years ago i decided to buy a new weller gun, what a serious piece of ****! It only work intermittently like 1 minute on and 3 minutes off, I could never solder a damn thing with it, it only got hot after you held the material so long it moved and then not hot enough to melt solder, then it got in its "safety/intermittent mode" and was impossible to use,, its for sale if anybody wants it.
 

BDT/NWMN

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I got this bad-boy from my wife's grandfather:



It looks lightly used. The last time I tried to use it, though, it seemed like the tip wasn't getting hot. I'm not sure why...?

I've received that gun's mate for Christmas back in the 60's.... good tool, still works like new....
 

nanofrog

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I understand what you "latest technology" freaks are trying to say but you guys still don't know what us old tech guys are saying.

Do any of you soldering iron "rocket scientists" know what a cold solder joint is? If you do, then do you know what it can do in UHF circuits or even high powered DC circuits? (as noted in my electrolytic capacitor example, tin can style)
I do understand what a cold joint is (been soldering electronics for the last 35 years).

To be fair, I made some assumptions about the "old techs" that posted, such as having a thorough understanding how tip geometries and mass can affect performance, as well as differences between unregulated and regulated irons/stations, and even that there are variations between regulated station brands (still suspect this is the case :)).

What I was getting at, as when I was younger (not a kid BTW, but just out of uni), was that for larger joints (larger AWG, buss bars, large RF connectors, .... sorts of things), it was necessary to go for the larger wattage irons and/or crank the temps on a temp controlled station (i.e. either crank the 80W iron, or grab the 120W <Weller gear FWIW>), to make sure the joint got enough heat to flow properly (good joint). Essentially all things being equal, that large joints meant the bigger/est irons would be required.

Up to this point, I'd never really thought about iron construction in terms of tip to heater relationships (tip butts up against the element, such as Weller's LT series, slid over the element as the Hakko 900M series does, ...).

Then some of the newer stuff started to appear, and through videos and meeting some that owned or had access to one, what they were capable of. Using less wattage no less (i.e. JBC T2245 or newer T245 irons vs. what I would have previously thought it would take a 120W Weller or similar to tackle with good results). Completely shocked me as to how well the thing was able to work (solder lugs, such as those found on large electros, RF connectors, and large AWG wire ...).

So after seeing this thing in action, it changed my thinking on how the tip/heating element construction affected the power consumption necessary to accomplish the joint correctly.

That's all I was trying to point out (i.e. ~50 - 65W using the newer tech can actually keep up with irons ~2x the power using the older tech (tip slides over the heater type of construction), not that a ridiculously small power iron (say 15W), with newer tip tech & regulation could tackle any joint on the planet.
 

dbonne

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I still got the Weller gun my dad gave me as a kid. (Plus a couple more I picked up along the way) Case has been glued a few times, don't know how many pen-light bulbs I have been through. I've made tips for just about every kind of soldering and melting application I could dream up. I like to think of the Weller gun as Brute Force and Ignorance kind of soldering tool.

I am not going to be a thread crapper, but will say that as with any tools, there is a time and place for soldering guns and same goes for temperature controlled irons. I have both, in fact I have more kinds of soldering equipment than most good electronics stores. Why the hell do do I have 4 different kinds of screwdrivers? Right tool for the job.

I will say, the one and the same Weller gun is most likely the very tool I have owned the longest of any tool I own, well, except for one :evil:
 

kc-steve

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I understand what you "latest technology" freaks are trying to say but you guys still don't know what us old tech guys are saying.

Do any of you soldering iron "rocket scientists" know what a cold solder joint is? If you do, then do you know what it can do in UHF circuits or even high powered DC circuits? (as noted in my electrolytic capacitor example, tin can style)

I rest my case. :rocker:

Steve

I do understand what a cold joint is (been soldering electronics for the last 35 years).

To be fair, I made some assumptions about the "old techs" that posted, . . .

. . . That's all I was trying to point out (i.e. ~50 - 65W using the newer tech can actually keep up with irons ~2x the power using the older tech (tip slides over the heater type of construction), not that a ridiculously small power iron (say 15W), with newer tip tech & regulation could tackle any joint on the planet.

I think we were both seeing many here on both sides of the issue that were basically clueless. I began my electronics career in 1972 in the USAF but after 28 years or so stopped carrying a tool bag. But like I said earlier I have done work on ILS and also in the medical field. Reliable equipment was always necessary so soldering proper joints was important.

This all started when a guy started bashing the soldering gun and Outlaw tried to tell him comparisons were not applicable. And I agree. So let's get back on topic as someone appropriately put it, the "merits of the vintage Weller soldering gun."

Steve
 
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planeguy

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This all started when a guy started bashing the soldering gun and Outlaw tried to tell him comparisons were not applicable. And I agree. So let's get back on topic as someone appropriately put it, the "merits of the vintage Weller soldering gun."

Steve

Funny....At perilous risk of being called a troll....I know nothing about soldering or repairing electronics. I only cared to read through this thread because it was something other than "Oh I had one" and "Me too". Perhaps there are better places for the discussion, places that people like me would never have stumbled across....I have found this informative, I never knew there was anything other than "unregulated firesticks".

Now back to the "I had one too" thread....lol
 

Mark914

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just picked up an old toolbox yesterday and it had a Weller "Junior" in it.
Ill have to get some pics. whats the difference between a Junior and a regular ? physical size ?? power ??
 

kc-steve

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. . . Now back to the "I had one too" thread....lol

The problem in the thread previously is the opposite situation where everyone is bashing each others preference, . . . and no one learns anything in that situation. We have to get past the one-sided view points and arguments to actually learn anything.

Steve
 

rustynbent

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My dad had one of those and used it constantly. He worked for IBM in the ear of big iron and would bring home discarded PCBs to strip for project parts. He was also a Ham and built his own transmitter and antennas. I have a more modern late 80s model Weller station but it needs a new stick. The old one was cool with the little incandescent lights that came on with the trigger. I'd love to have one.

What is one worth to you? I have some. Nobody around here is smart enough to use electric. They still use a blow torch and copper head wand. Mostly for making stills.
 

rustynbent

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I worked for a pinball machine co. back in the late 70's to mid 80's and we used weller soldering irons and guns, they worked great.

About 5 years ago i decided to buy a new weller gun, what a serious piece of ****! It only work intermittently like 1 minute on and 3 minutes off, I could never solder a damn thing with it, it only got hot after you held the material so long it moved and then not hot enough to melt solder, then it got in its "safety/intermittent mode" and was impossible to use,, its for sale if anybody wants it.

Depends on how much you are offering to take it?
 

Outlawmws

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just picked up an old toolbox yesterday and it had a Weller "Junior" in it.
Ill have to get some pics. whats the difference between a Junior and a regular ? physical size ?? power ??

1.1 amps or basically 130 watts and a single stage trigger, so one heat range not two.

Still a decent gun. I have my Jr. setup with a bent tip to get around corners...
 

hefty lefty

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i ******* hate those solder guns! soldering iron all the way!

Soldering guns were useful for the old line inhouse TV techs who had to solder in the field and everything was point to point wired. It is impossible to do good PCB soldering with a gun. The soldering gun also puts out a big electromagnetic field that can zap some parts on circuit boards where the traces are a resonant loop.

They are useful for odd things but the curse of death for modern electronic work. I've bought them from garage sales just to scrap them they are so bad in fact.
 

kc-steve

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Soldering guns were useful for the old line inhouse TV techs who had to solder in the field and everything was point to point wired. It is impossible to do good PCB soldering with a gun. The soldering gun also puts out a big electromagnetic field that can zap some parts on circuit boards where the traces are a resonant loop.

They are useful for odd things but the curse of death for modern electronic work. I've bought them from garage sales just to scrap them they are so bad in fact.

Seems like a waste of money to buy something just to scrap it. There's still a lot of industrial applications in use today that require a high wattage gun. Not to mention the old electronics stuff people here have mentioned they refurbish.

Steve
 
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