So I'm in the market for a 30' x 40' metal building that will eventually be my shop space. It's something I'm really excited about, but something I'm going to have to do ...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
- Thread starter Ryan
- Start date
So I'm in the market for a 30' x 40' metal building that will eventually be my shop space. It's something I'm really excited about, but something I'm going to have to do ...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
Tman
Well-known member
I had some good experience with Butler many years ago.
http://www.butlermfg.com/the_butler_difference/
http://www.butlermfg.com/the_butler_difference/
readhead
Well-known member
Where do I start? First it is a very cutthroat business. I know that represents a pretty broad brush but homework is key here.
I have been selling and erecting metal buildings for about ten years and have worked with many suppliers. I think the key to success is dealing with a local contractor that puts up buildings on a regular basis. A lot of internet suppliers are brokers and will farm out your building to a manufacturer and not give you any service after the sale. A local guy can show you similar buildings to what you want and show you options in person.
Start asking around for recomendations and when the same names start coming up you will know who to talk to.
Try to find a contractor that does turnkey buildings so you won't be acting as the general contractor.
Know as much as you can about what you want before you start asking for numbers. Such as length, width, height, pitch, windows, walk doors, garage doors, overhangs, gutters, insulation, heating and cooling, plumbing, electrical, interior partitions, etc.
Be very up front about your budget right away so nobody is wasting their time estimating something you can't afford.
There are a lot more things that will enter into the equation but with the right contractor you should be in good hands.
I have been selling and erecting metal buildings for about ten years and have worked with many suppliers. I think the key to success is dealing with a local contractor that puts up buildings on a regular basis. A lot of internet suppliers are brokers and will farm out your building to a manufacturer and not give you any service after the sale. A local guy can show you similar buildings to what you want and show you options in person.
Start asking around for recomendations and when the same names start coming up you will know who to talk to.
Try to find a contractor that does turnkey buildings so you won't be acting as the general contractor.
Know as much as you can about what you want before you start asking for numbers. Such as length, width, height, pitch, windows, walk doors, garage doors, overhangs, gutters, insulation, heating and cooling, plumbing, electrical, interior partitions, etc.
Be very up front about your budget right away so nobody is wasting their time estimating something you can't afford.
There are a lot more things that will enter into the equation but with the right contractor you should be in good hands.
RollTide
Member
I used Renegade Steel buildings.Talk to Kevin Welch. Great guy, he was very helpful.
readhead
Well-known member
Even if you buy the building and plan to erect it yourself I would encourage you to buy local in case you have any missing or damaged parts.
marty_p
Well-known member
Ryan:
Three local companies immediately come to my mind: Ruffin, Southern Structures, and Mueller.
I've helped put up five Ruffin bldgs b/w 1993 and 2007 and they were A1 construction. My dad had a Southern Structures bldg at home, and it has held up fine for 38 years. And finally, I have been in a few friend's Mueller bldgs, and they were all fine too. I know there are many more, but these are the only ones I know from personal experience.
Ruffin Building Systems
www.ruffinbuildingsystems.com/index.html
Oak Grove (NE), LA
Southern Structures
Broussard (SW), LA
Mueller, Inc.
www.muellerinc.com/steel-buildings
Located all over -- especially in TX
GOOD LUCK!!!
EDIT: Southern Structures is out of business now. Thanks for letting me know, Gary!
Three local companies immediately come to my mind: Ruffin, Southern Structures, and Mueller.
I've helped put up five Ruffin bldgs b/w 1993 and 2007 and they were A1 construction. My dad had a Southern Structures bldg at home, and it has held up fine for 38 years. And finally, I have been in a few friend's Mueller bldgs, and they were all fine too. I know there are many more, but these are the only ones I know from personal experience.
Ruffin Building Systems
www.ruffinbuildingsystems.com/index.html
Oak Grove (NE), LA
Southern Structures
Broussard (SW), LA
Mueller, Inc.
www.muellerinc.com/steel-buildings
Located all over -- especially in TX
GOOD LUCK!!!
EDIT: Southern Structures is out of business now. Thanks for letting me know, Gary!
Last edited:
fnieto
Well-known member
I'm in the process of erecting this Mueller 40'x80' 14' eves myself. I too searched and was turned off by many knucklehead sales persons. Promising the world but could not give me a total cost.
Mueller was excellent to work with and kept me informed throughout the process. No pressure and even bought back the insulation I had originally purchased. As you can see the red iron is up and awaiting the skin. This 40' X80' building with four 10'x12' garage door openings one man door and two 10' ridge vents ran $24,000 delivered. Other companies wanted $26k-30k with no real commitment to disclose the "hidden costs.
The sals guy was Jessie Carerra from the El Paso branch as I live in Tucson, Az.
I decided to forgo the R-10 insulation and do R-30 after the building is skinned using skrim sheet ,clips and wire to hold in place.
Mueller was excellent to work with and kept me informed throughout the process. No pressure and even bought back the insulation I had originally purchased. As you can see the red iron is up and awaiting the skin. This 40' X80' building with four 10'x12' garage door openings one man door and two 10' ridge vents ran $24,000 delivered. Other companies wanted $26k-30k with no real commitment to disclose the "hidden costs.
The sals guy was Jessie Carerra from the El Paso branch as I live in Tucson, Az.
I decided to forgo the R-10 insulation and do R-30 after the building is skinned using skrim sheet ,clips and wire to hold in place.
Attachments
green.bubbly
Well-known member
There should be a Mueller in your area. Nothing but good things to say about the 24x24 I purchased from them.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Mueller is in Temple, just up the road from Ryan.
Charles
Charles
Bib Overalls
Well-known member
Metal skinned buildings can be built a number of different ways. The cheapest are usually the most expensive to insulate and finish out. If your long term plan for the space includes insulation, air conditioning and dry wall you need to consider a conventional stick structure with the metal attached to purlins. For a 30' x 40' the additional cost (over pole or red iron framed) will be negligible.
JDewey
Active member
Ryan:
There are a lot of decisions that you need to make before you talk to a metal building contractor. First - are you erecting it yourself or having a general contractor do the work?; do you want an "engineered" building (e.g., bolt together) or a weld-up building (weld up is cheaper). Do you have floorplans showing size; height, roof slope, overhang, vents, insulation, window location/size, door(s) (people & vehicles) location & sizes; etc. You will need to have sorted all of that out before they will be able to give you a price. Although I am in the hill country just north of San Antonio, I looked at Butler and found them to be expensive and not very responsive to my requests for pricing even though I gave them detailed drawings and a spec sheet. I finally went with a weld up unit from Royal (based out of Boerne, TX) and used a general contractor that had been recommended by another car guy who let me see his building. Ask around to see who has used what contractors and what suppliers and see what their recommendations are locally. I do not recommend buying a building from someone who is not local. Service and support are difficult to get and changes are next to impossible.
FYI - my build was recorded in the following thread:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147279
John
There are a lot of decisions that you need to make before you talk to a metal building contractor. First - are you erecting it yourself or having a general contractor do the work?; do you want an "engineered" building (e.g., bolt together) or a weld-up building (weld up is cheaper). Do you have floorplans showing size; height, roof slope, overhang, vents, insulation, window location/size, door(s) (people & vehicles) location & sizes; etc. You will need to have sorted all of that out before they will be able to give you a price. Although I am in the hill country just north of San Antonio, I looked at Butler and found them to be expensive and not very responsive to my requests for pricing even though I gave them detailed drawings and a spec sheet. I finally went with a weld up unit from Royal (based out of Boerne, TX) and used a general contractor that had been recommended by another car guy who let me see his building. Ask around to see who has used what contractors and what suppliers and see what their recommendations are locally. I do not recommend buying a building from someone who is not local. Service and support are difficult to get and changes are next to impossible.
FYI - my build was recorded in the following thread:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147279
John
NHBandit
Well-known member
I used National Barn Company for my 30x40 pole barn and I'm very satisfied. I see they have an Oklahoma office that covers TX. That said, I was on a very tight budget and there are probably better quality buildings like the Mueller buildings if your pockets are deeper than mine. If you go to my build thread you can read all about it. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188161
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JCQuick
Well-known member
Anyone know of a good company in florida
readhead
Well-known member
I think it would be pretty cool to recreate the look of the building in the photo.
Who did your slab?? You're NW, judging from that pic?
Mark R
Old Spanish Trail/Melpomene area
ZRX61
Well-known member
fnieto
Well-known member
Mark, I have a friend I work with on TFD who helped and found labor. I provided all matirial as well as layout and templates for the anchors.
I live close to you off old spanish trail in Rocking K.
74 yards total. Total cost for foundation $15.3k. I figured I saved 5-6K
Nighttrain
Well-known member
Ryan, I have bought my 40x60 and the metal for our 24x32 barn from Mueller in Spicewood. Great folks there and this will be close for you. It was nice to go in a sit with them at their desk and draw up the plans. They gave me a quote and had no issues on delivery. Good quality product. Both garge and barn are in my build thread.
OP
rmalkow2
Well-known member
Also check out a company from TN called Versatube.
www.versatube.com
They make a building kit that you and a friend or two can assemble yourself after the cement pad is poured. I'm seriously considering this for my own second garage after comparing to other ready made types, or traditional pole barns. It's also expandable for future growth. You must get your own windows and doors but they frame in for the sizes you specify.
Not trying to sell for them but its worth a look. I like that its an American company using all American materials. And doing it yourself saves a lot of cost. You can purchase kits through all the typical big box stores but I also talked direct to the manufacturer and they will deliver right to your door by truck which is cheaper and cuts out the middleman step.
www.versatube.com
They make a building kit that you and a friend or two can assemble yourself after the cement pad is poured. I'm seriously considering this for my own second garage after comparing to other ready made types, or traditional pole barns. It's also expandable for future growth. You must get your own windows and doors but they frame in for the sizes you specify.
Not trying to sell for them but its worth a look. I like that its an American company using all American materials. And doing it yourself saves a lot of cost. You can purchase kits through all the typical big box stores but I also talked direct to the manufacturer and they will deliver right to your door by truck which is cheaper and cuts out the middleman step.
mustangsean
Well-known member
I too used Mueller and am very happy with them. 40 x 60, and used the bolt up Big Barn XL kit. Assembled myself and with a few guys to help. Definately would use again, and they had the building on special so got a great deal.
RTcat
Well-known member
No idea if you have an Amish close by, but they put up my 32 x 50 shop a couple years back. Very satisfied with their work. Local lumber yard does many projects with them so both the crew and material supplier were familiar with each other. Lumber yard spec'd out all my wood, doors and windows and fasteners. Amish got their tin from their own supplier.
Enjoy your build!
Enjoy your build!
getbent4x4
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2012
- Messages
- 3,722
steel supply yard, overpaying if you're getting the steel anywhere else.
Nighttrain
Well-known member
Ryan I had a guy from Johnson city weld it up. It's all he does. I bought the building from mueller and paid him separately. I contracted out the cement from another guy. Very happy how it worked out. I did build my barn myself after learning the tricks from the garage build .
Wildfire
Well-known member
Find some Mennonite barn builders.
Also stop and talk to people. Ask the where they got there building and who did the work.
Insulate everything.
Also stop and talk to people. Ask the where they got there building and who did the work.
Insulate everything.
These guys are close to Florida and are awesom to deal with. Check out www.steelmaxbuildings.com
I purcahsed by building from them and had ZERO problems. You can build/design your building on thier website and get a price NOW. THEY ARE NOT THE MIDDLE MAN. They are the internet company of Vulcan Metal Buildings.
I highly reccommend them.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Metal buildings, like anything else, vary in quality of design and construction. There are cheap ones that look good, but the primer is poor and the rust bleeds thru in no time on the fabricated columns and trusses. Wall girts of the bypass type are cheaper to manufacture, but leave the columns sitting inside the building by several additional inches....
Even bypass girts can vary in quality, some, like mine, have horizontal steel tabs welded to the outside of the columns to attach the girts. This holds them horizontal and prevents sag.
Others have no tab, they just drill the flange of the girt and the column itself and bolt one to the other, but the girts sag. Cheapest of designs.
Better wall girt design leaves the wall girt recessed into the column, known as a flush girt. You get more interior room as the column is against the outside sheet and intrudes less on the interior space, but this costs more as more tabs and clips are needed. This can be done with Z or C material, but I suspect C is used more since it is stronger and without the interlocking Z purlins of the bypass design, you need the strength you need.
Another issue is how the sheet is attached at the slab. More expensive and stronger designs run a girt, usually C material, at floor level to attach the bottom of the exterior sheet to. This is a very strong method, and provides a point to attach interior sheet also if desired. The steel building IN THIS THREAD has a C channel at floor level with the sheet attached to it.
Other options are various types of L and other finish pieces that anchor to the slab (usually nail gunned) that the bottom of the exterior sheet is attached to.
Here is a L angle attaching the sheet, with a piece of finish trim to close the bottom of the sheet that overhangs the slab.
Below is a slightly cheaper variation of closing the bottom of the sheet, and attaching the sheet with the L angle.
Here is L angle that secures the bottom of the exterior sheeting, but with the slab extending past the building line and notched to form the finish for the bottom of the sheet. My building is done that way, as shown in the pic.
Google Images using the search term "steel building wall girt to column" (no quote marks) and you get lots of images.
Another issue is Z purlin overlap. You NEED to be knowledgeable and standing there when the buliding is erected to catch mistakes. They WILL happen. Steel building companies hire who they can, and if the guy is new, or not too bright, then guess what? Things get put together wrong. You are stuck with this forever. Overlapping Z purlins is not a science. They have a wide flange, and a narrower flange. The nesting involves getting the narrow flange inside the wide flange. You can do it wrong, my building is proof of that. I have it in one place and it creates a bulge in the outside of the building skin at that point and looks terrible inside. The holes are slotted and usually will allow the overlap to be wrong and the bolts will still go thru.
Imagine what happens if you get the narrow flange on the outside of the wide one. It cannot nest properly, and its like putting a table spoon and a tea spoon together in the same stack. One way, the spoons nest, the other way you have a huge bulge.
More later as I think of it.
Charles
Even bypass girts can vary in quality, some, like mine, have horizontal steel tabs welded to the outside of the columns to attach the girts. This holds them horizontal and prevents sag.
Others have no tab, they just drill the flange of the girt and the column itself and bolt one to the other, but the girts sag. Cheapest of designs.
Better wall girt design leaves the wall girt recessed into the column, known as a flush girt. You get more interior room as the column is against the outside sheet and intrudes less on the interior space, but this costs more as more tabs and clips are needed. This can be done with Z or C material, but I suspect C is used more since it is stronger and without the interlocking Z purlins of the bypass design, you need the strength you need.
Another issue is how the sheet is attached at the slab. More expensive and stronger designs run a girt, usually C material, at floor level to attach the bottom of the exterior sheet to. This is a very strong method, and provides a point to attach interior sheet also if desired. The steel building IN THIS THREAD has a C channel at floor level with the sheet attached to it.
Other options are various types of L and other finish pieces that anchor to the slab (usually nail gunned) that the bottom of the exterior sheet is attached to.
Here is a L angle attaching the sheet, with a piece of finish trim to close the bottom of the sheet that overhangs the slab.
Below is a slightly cheaper variation of closing the bottom of the sheet, and attaching the sheet with the L angle.
Here is L angle that secures the bottom of the exterior sheeting, but with the slab extending past the building line and notched to form the finish for the bottom of the sheet. My building is done that way, as shown in the pic.
Google Images using the search term "steel building wall girt to column" (no quote marks) and you get lots of images.
Another issue is Z purlin overlap. You NEED to be knowledgeable and standing there when the buliding is erected to catch mistakes. They WILL happen. Steel building companies hire who they can, and if the guy is new, or not too bright, then guess what? Things get put together wrong. You are stuck with this forever. Overlapping Z purlins is not a science. They have a wide flange, and a narrower flange. The nesting involves getting the narrow flange inside the wide flange. You can do it wrong, my building is proof of that. I have it in one place and it creates a bulge in the outside of the building skin at that point and looks terrible inside. The holes are slotted and usually will allow the overlap to be wrong and the bolts will still go thru.
Imagine what happens if you get the narrow flange on the outside of the wide one. It cannot nest properly, and its like putting a table spoon and a tea spoon together in the same stack. One way, the spoons nest, the other way you have a huge bulge.
More later as I think of it.
Charles
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marty_p
Well-known member
^^^ This is an incredible wealth of information, Charles.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for sharing!
Bronson
Well-known member
Another vote for Mueller. My 30x40 was a pleasure to do, from initial contact to final inspection, Mueller was a pleasure to work with,and I later added a Mueller metal roof to My house. I used to be a steel erector, but I hired a crew in the area, and they did an excellent job.
I purchased steel trusses from Adams Truss in Gentry Arkansas and built a 32 x 40 myself. We bought the tin locally from Menards because the price was competitive and if we ever needed to replace any later down the road it would be easy to color match.
Dale at Adams Truss was great to work with.
Dale at Adams Truss was great to work with.
I got mine from here: http://futuresteel.com/ 20 by 30 "A" style. Very happy with it.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Cross bracing. The typical small red iron type steel building has some sort of cross bracing in it, either steel rods, or cables, usually in the end bays of the building.
If you have ever wandered around in a steel building you will have noticed it, and many times the cross bracing is slack. Its main purpose is to prevent major deformation of the building in strong winds, etc, and during the erection of the building. Some buildings are not cross braced. They are what is called "diaphragm braced", and the sheet metal, hence a diaphragm, is the bracing for the structure. On my 60x60, it is half of one wall, 30ft that was engineered into it for that purpose. I was told by the engineers that I was to never disturb or interrupt the sheeting in that section. No windows, no doors, nothing.
Overhangs. On the gable end, you have the opportunity during design, to include a roof overhang. If you have a gable end door, this is a very nice thing to have. It helps shade the door, and allows the door to remain oven in rather heavy rain, without it getting inside. This is the major thing I kick myself about on my building, that I did not include an overhang. It is easily done by extending the roof purlins beyond the end wall or clear span truss, and then skinning it on top, and on the bottom. Here is an example, a building near me that was used as a small distribution center for a convenience store pizza components distributor. The building is now empty and was for sale.
Here is an example of a building with both gable end and eave side overhangs. Its easy to design into it, a bear to add on later.
Ryan's 30x40 will only have two bays in it, meaning two end walls, and one clear span truss in the middle. If you ever think you might add on to the gable end of the building, instead of a end wall, on that end, put in a clear span truss, then enough structure to allow for sheeting, doors, etc. This will allow for the structure to be removed, purlins and girts to be spliced onto or overlapped, and the building continued further.
Size. A building is never large enough. If you think 12 ft height is enough, then go 14 ft. One thing to realize is that if you want a 14 ft high door (very necessary if you have a large boat or a tall 5th wheel camper) you will need a wall that is taller than 14 ft.
Accessibility is a very desirable feature. doors in the right places will let you get to the inside of the building very easily, but put a door in the wrong place and you end up with a dead corner or a spot that is difficult to maneuver a vehicle into. Something to consider is an aircraft hangar type bi-fold lift door, which would allow you to open up almost all of one end of the building. The lift doors, when shut fit tight, are fitted with matching sheetmetal, insulation, and seals so that there is minimal leakage of air, allowing for cooling and heating. Most door companies will custom make these doors to any height and width.
single panel hydraulic doors are also available, and there are quite a few in use. I personally am not a fan of them, as they exert some really strange stresses on the building that need to be considered during initial design. lift type Bifold doors are much easier to add or at least require less engineering considerations.
Charles
If you have ever wandered around in a steel building you will have noticed it, and many times the cross bracing is slack. Its main purpose is to prevent major deformation of the building in strong winds, etc, and during the erection of the building. Some buildings are not cross braced. They are what is called "diaphragm braced", and the sheet metal, hence a diaphragm, is the bracing for the structure. On my 60x60, it is half of one wall, 30ft that was engineered into it for that purpose. I was told by the engineers that I was to never disturb or interrupt the sheeting in that section. No windows, no doors, nothing.
Overhangs. On the gable end, you have the opportunity during design, to include a roof overhang. If you have a gable end door, this is a very nice thing to have. It helps shade the door, and allows the door to remain oven in rather heavy rain, without it getting inside. This is the major thing I kick myself about on my building, that I did not include an overhang. It is easily done by extending the roof purlins beyond the end wall or clear span truss, and then skinning it on top, and on the bottom. Here is an example, a building near me that was used as a small distribution center for a convenience store pizza components distributor. The building is now empty and was for sale.
Here is an example of a building with both gable end and eave side overhangs. Its easy to design into it, a bear to add on later.
Ryan's 30x40 will only have two bays in it, meaning two end walls, and one clear span truss in the middle. If you ever think you might add on to the gable end of the building, instead of a end wall, on that end, put in a clear span truss, then enough structure to allow for sheeting, doors, etc. This will allow for the structure to be removed, purlins and girts to be spliced onto or overlapped, and the building continued further.
Size. A building is never large enough. If you think 12 ft height is enough, then go 14 ft. One thing to realize is that if you want a 14 ft high door (very necessary if you have a large boat or a tall 5th wheel camper) you will need a wall that is taller than 14 ft.
Accessibility is a very desirable feature. doors in the right places will let you get to the inside of the building very easily, but put a door in the wrong place and you end up with a dead corner or a spot that is difficult to maneuver a vehicle into. Something to consider is an aircraft hangar type bi-fold lift door, which would allow you to open up almost all of one end of the building. The lift doors, when shut fit tight, are fitted with matching sheetmetal, insulation, and seals so that there is minimal leakage of air, allowing for cooling and heating. Most door companies will custom make these doors to any height and width.
single panel hydraulic doors are also available, and there are quite a few in use. I personally am not a fan of them, as they exert some really strange stresses on the building that need to be considered during initial design. lift type Bifold doors are much easier to add or at least require less engineering considerations.
Charles
Does anyone have an opinion on a stick-built building, with fully sheeted exterior walls, covered with metal siding?
The local radio station has been advertising a metal roofing company that now has "weathered/patina'd" roofing panels to make the buildings look like they've been there a while. They have several styles of panel.
I'm thinking that'd be just the kind of thing Ryan could use. I'm also trying to figure out why I wouldn't do that in a year or two when I build my shop/apartment.
Thoughts?
-Brad
The local radio station has been advertising a metal roofing company that now has "weathered/patina'd" roofing panels to make the buildings look like they've been there a while. They have several styles of panel.
I'm thinking that'd be just the kind of thing Ryan could use. I'm also trying to figure out why I wouldn't do that in a year or two when I build my shop/apartment.
Thoughts?
-Brad
Tman
Well-known member
I have done this Brad. It is pretty common up here. This is one regional supplier of steel like that
http://bridgersteel.com/
The sheething makes for a stronger building.
OP
Great stuff guys. Thanks so much.
OP
Yeah, I would love to hear more about that weathered stuff...
We purchased a property with a 30 x 34 pole barn already in place.
I have plastic that is falling off the ceiling and no insulation. What are
"skrim sheets"?
So far, my research seems to indicate spray foam on the exterior walls seem
to be the best bet for insulation. I am still doing research and am open to any new ideas.
Thank you.
fnieto
Well-known member
skrim sheet comes in rolls probably available in different withs. Its kind of a thick fiberglass reinforced sheeting that is white on the finished side. Its used in the insulation industry to cover batting. Very common in the industrial application.
And with R30 on wall and ceiling, I should be able to maintain a decent working temp during summer/winter. I have a neighbor that has this on his post/beam 40'x40' ceiling. When he returns from out of town, I will get some pictures and post ASAP. I will say, I have been having trouble posting pictures on this forum. Not sure if its due to using I-pad or what. I have been trying to post foundation photos in "my album" with no luck.
The best I have found is
http://www.steelbuilding.com/
You plug in your details, it spits out the price.
no salesman
http://www.steelbuilding.com/
You plug in your details, it spits out the price.
no salesman