The VISES of Garage Journal

[Carla]

I see...

???ERT MFG. Co.
WAYNESBORO
PA

TICER or TIGER or VICER
6 1/2 IN NO 39

Looks like a wood vise handle welded on to the lead screw, busted slide, and IDK about where the dynamic meets the slide. But I've never seen this brand, so rare/ish maybe...

The 'patternmakers' style vise made by the Emmert Co, of Waynesboro, Pa. is common, and somewhat 'famous' amongst woodworking folk. They also made a 'machinists' style vise with a unique angular positioning system, which are relatively quite rare. This is the first I've ever seen, of a standard or common type of machinists' vise built by the Emmert Co.

It looks like that handle repair is a common pipe tee, one of those 'don't knock it, it works, doesn't it?' type of 'quick, cheap, and dirty' repairs commonly done, yeas ago.

cheers

Carla

 

[neophyte]

I see...

???ERT MFG. Co.
WAYNESBORO
PA

TICER or TIGER or VICER
6 1/2 IN NO 39

Looks like a wood vise handle welded on to the lead screw, busted slide, and IDK about where the dynamic meets the slide. But I've never seen this brand, so rare/ish maybe...

EMMERT MFG Co.
Waynesboro PA

Emmert was mostly known for their Patternmakers vises.

This website has info on Emmert, but doesn't show the vise from CL.

http://www.mprime.com/Emmert/index.htm

 

[bl00]

The make/model is Emmert Tiger. There have been a few posted on this site, but they don't come up often. Here are links to a few of them:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2627149&postcount=6
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1662719&postcount=169
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161735
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1758409&postcount=53

And there is a mention of them in the Railroad Gazette from 1907. I used to have a decent line drawing of one, but it seems to have gone missing after replacing my home computer.
http://books.google.com/books?id=oo...gK#v=onepage&q=emmert machinists vise&f=false

 

[toomanytoyzz]

Pretty cool vise. An old friend of mine has a hunting cabin which he converted into a year round home right outside of Waynesboro, PA. I'll ask him if he ever heard of the place that made them.

 

[bigcaddy]

Emmert machine/mechanics vise are exceedingly rare and only a few have ever shown up on here.

I do remember a new member asking about a vise he had or was going to buy and it turned out to be a 8" Emmert Tiger. I never heard another word from the guy and nobody ever found out if he bought/sold the vise.

I've never seen one in person, except the pattern makers vises.

 

[wrenchguy]

Re: here u go big caddy,

U got the cape connection yet? I won't be out there till after 1st of year. Its been on there a couple weeks. good luck.

http://capecod.craigslist.org/tls/4165353079.html

 

[drivesitfar]

I have googled for information about my various vises and tools for years and always seem to be led to Garage Journal at some point which usually has the best information. I joined a few years ago and have been enjoying the threads and pictures and now I have something to post a picture of that might interest some of you. I also have some questions about this vise and started a new thread, but don't know how to cut and paste the link to this in the Vises section so until I do you can send me any information on the Prentiss #26 thread or here if easier. i'm trying to find out the best way to pull out the swivel pin for the jaw because not sure it has been pulled in about 100 years. taking the swivel's base off too might be a challenge or is it? My handle is because i'm a golf pro, but I tend to drive a couple hundred miles for a good vise or tool too. Happy Holidays.

 

[drivesitfar]

I tried to attach pictures of my Prentiss #26 vise and they didn't attach so i'll try again. I was able to attach on my original thread so is there a different method to do it on an ongoing thread?

 

[BFBOB]

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. I'm into a nice plate of turkey leftovers as I contemplate my newly-acquired Yost No. 1 vise. It has 3 1/2" jaws and weighs 45 lbs. As you can see from the pictures, it's in pretty sad shape. I'm not sure it's worth fixing; might be better put to use as an organ donor. Maybe some of you restoration experts can chime in. One thing it has going for it is that it has all its parts, even the swivel lock plate, wing nut and washer. The screw and nut look good, but the slide leaves a bit to be desired. The bit that's missing. I can probably get a chunk of cast iron angle that would be a good starting point and fab a patch, but I'm not so sure I could weld it in. I've only got gas and plain ol' stick welders, and I don't think brazing would be strong enough.
It's actually usable as is, and apparently was used for some time after the break. Right after the apprentice broke it, the master welded a bead on the top of the slide to prevent it from opening far enough to get the broken portion inside the body.
One oddity is that it doesn't seem to have removable jaws. Is this even possible with a vise of this caliber? Maybe it's just so bashed up I can't see the parting lines. I'll know more after it comes out of the electrolysis tank.
I'd appreciate any help on dating it (tried candy and flowers, not interested), or any other info. I haven't found another example of this vise on the web; next step is checking patents. That can be tedious indeed!

 

[Outlawmws]

Drivesitfar,

Nice Prentiss!

Get the dynamic jaw/slide out all the way, and take the swivel base off first. Clean down there, you should be able to knock the retention pin for the main screw nut out.

I think there should be at that point a way to access the bottom of the tapered pin for the swivel, and get to that with a drift punch.

 

[Fyrme]

What do you think of the crack in the slide from this 3-1/2" Monarch Model 213? Might be able to get it for $30 locally, can that be welded up? The rest of of it looks pretty good but is that indicative of a past pounding on the slide and perhaps internal damage? Seller says it works fine...

To answer your question, yes it can be repaired. If the rest of the vise is in good shape, I'd grab it for $30 IF he even still has it.

Here is a similar example of what that vise has. I had this one preheated and TIG welded. Then belt sanded the whole slide to square everything up. There was a little undercut on the edge of the weld and a couple spots of porosity from the cast still being a little contaminated, but it's not gonna crack there again.

 

[drivesitfar]

thanks Outlaw. great ideas. i'll do that tomorrow and get a few pictures posted on my thread I started. so my spray I use for the rusty bolts is probably going in the top and running all the way down the swivel pin to the screw and the bench? hopefully i'm talented enough to take advantage of your knowledge.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Drivesitfar,

Nice Prentiss!

Get the dynamic jaw/slide out all the way, and take the swivel base off first. Clean down there, you should be able to knock the retention pin for the main screw nut out.

I think there should be at that point a way to access the bottom of the tapered pin for the swivel, and get to that with a drift punch.

If there isn't a hole in the bottom of the stationary jaw body that a drift could go through, you can still get it out with a c-clamp and some other hardware. Look on page 381, post 7618 for the description of how I removed mine. Sorry, I never got around to taking any pictures.

 

[KMScott]

Mark
You did a great description on how you pulled your pin out. Making a custom press is effective. Sometimes you have to go to more extremes and actually drill the pin out. I have a 7" Prentiss with the pin smashed in from the previous owner. I'll try your way first, if your way does not work I will weld a slide hammer to it and try it this way and if that way does not work then I'll have to drill it out.

 

[Mpmckenzie]

Hi,
Thought I'd post my experience of pin removal...
As a lurker in England now with a vise habit courtesy of Garage Journal I stumbled across and acquired a Columbian 406 recently. I disassembled it as much as possible and was left with the swivel jaw and pin seized solid.
Attempts to free this included....
6 weeks in an electrolysis bath,
Oxy/acet,
Pounding on the base of the pin through the hole that houses the nut-retaining pin.
Finally succeeded using a M10 nut and bolt, a brass washer and a deep 10mm 1/2" socket to rig up a press to push the pin out from inside the casting. I put pressure on the pin, tapped the swivel jaw with a hammer, put a bit more pressure on, tapped again etc. Within 5 minutes it was out. I was loathe to drill it out as machining a replacement would have been trickier without the original.
I'll make a replacement one day as the original certainly shows the scars of past attempts to remove it.
My elation was short-lived as I then discovered the swivel jaw was seized too! Time to reach for the big hammer!
Once it's finished I must learn how to post pictures and will add it to this brilliant thread.
Good luck,
Mark

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Hi,
Thought I'd post my experience of pin removal...
As a lurker in England now with a vise habit courtesy of Garage Journal I stumbled across and acquired a Columbian 406 recently. I disassembled it as much as possible and was left with the swivel jaw and pin seized solid.
Attempts to free this included....
6 weeks in an electrolysis bath,
Oxy/acet,
Pounding on the base of the pin through the hole that houses the nut-retaining pin.
Finally succeeded using a M10 nut and bolt, a brass washer and a deep 10mm 1/2" socket to rig up a press to push the pin out from inside the casting. I put pressure on the pin, tapped the swivel jaw with a hammer, put a bit more pressure on, tapped again etc. Within 5 minutes it was out. I was loathe to drill it out as machining a replacement would have been trickier without the original.
I'll make a replacement one day as the original certainly shows the scars of past attempts to remove it.
My elation was short-lived as I then discovered the swivel jaw was seized too! Time to reach for the big hammer!
Once it's finished I must learn how to post pictures and will add it to this brilliant thread.
Good luck,
Mark

I learned (from expert guidance here) that there is a retaining pin or 2 that hold the swivel jaw into the body. In order to free my jaw, I had to drive the pin out, apply a lot of atf/acetone mix to the areas that should move, and whack the jaw with a baby sledge and a wooden block. During reassembly, I even had to grind the inner section of the retaining pin down and flap sand the jaw nest so it would move the way it should.

 

[Mpmckenzie]

Luckily on the 406 there were no locking/retaining pins fixing the swivel jaw other than the main pin I'd just removed. Delicate blunt force from a dead blow mallet spun it about 2mm per blow. Once off I cleared off what looks like 50 year-old copper-slip and now (with a lot more rust removal) it moves freely - so free that I successfully squashed the end of my finger between the swivel jaw and main casting. That hurt.
I'm at the stage now where I need to wire wheel all the exterior surfaces and get some primer on.
The 406 makes my Record 112 (another 6" vise) look pretty small. I think the Columbian weighs 126lb compared to the Record at about 60lb.
Mark

 

[BFBOB]

To answer your question, yes it can be repaired. If the rest of the vise is in good shape, I'd grab it for $30 IF he even still has it.

Here is a similar example of what that vise has. I had this one preheated and TIG welded. Then belt sanded the whole slide to square everything up. There was a little undercut on the edge of the weld and a couple spots of porosity from the cast still being a little contaminated, but it's not gonna crack there again.

Thanks, Fyrme, for the excellent pictures. The quality of the repair gives me hope for my organ donor. If it's to be restored, I'm facing a similar, but more extensive, repair on my Yost No. 1. (see my post, previous page I think) Could you give some details about the weld job? You said it was TIG - what kind of rod? What current (amperage)? How hot was the preheat? To color heat? Could it be done with a stick welder? - not worried about slag since it has to be ground down anyway.
I've yet to achieve a stack o' dimes bead, but with some practice... I'll have to get some scrap cast iron to make a patch for the slide anyway, so I can just get some extra and practice.
And finally, would it be advisable to weld from the inside too? Obviously couldn't be done with TIG, but is is possible with stick.

A data point for not-yet-expert welders: the quality of my stick welding went up instantly when I got an auto-darkening helmet.

 

[Fyrme]

Thanks, Fyrme, for the excellent pictures. The quality of the repair gives me hope for my organ donor. If it's to be restored, I'm facing a similar, but more extensive, repair on my Yost No. 1. (see my post, previous page I think) Could you give some details about the weld job? You said it was TIG - what kind of rod? What current (amperage)? How hot was the preheat? To color heat? Could it be done with a stick welder? - not worried about slag since it has to be ground down anyway.
I've yet to achieve a stack o' dimes bead, but with some practice... I'll have to get some scrap cast iron to make a patch for the slide anyway, so I can just get some extra and practice.
And finally, would it be advisable to weld from the inside too? Obviously couldn't be done with TIG, but is is possible with stick.

A data point for not-yet-expert welders: the quality of my stick welding went up instantly when I got an auto-darkening helmet.

My buddy did the weld for me. I don't own a TIG rig, only MIG. He heated the piece up to about 450* then welded it. I didn't get specs on what heat or rod he used though. He ground out much more than you see in the second pic. I did that cut just to reveal the crack better and determine the severity of it. Drilling the relief hole on a crack is a necessity imo. Before welding, he cut it out to almost 1/4" wide at the top, while beveling it in to the center. He didn't x-ray it, but he estimates 85% penetration. He was only able to reach about 3/4" in on the inside even using a "mini rig". I don't think you can stick weld the cast, but I'm not an expert. I've always understood that TIG and brazing were the only correct ways to weld cast iron, and really, they both use the same principle of heating the metal to the point it melts together and use filler rod to replace the needed material. Both processes are on my bucket list to get proficient at.

 

[bigcaddy]

Re: here u go big caddy,

U got the cape connection yet? I won't be out there till after 1st of year. Its been on there a couple weeks. good luck.

http://capecod.craigslist.org/tls/4165353079.html

I've been eyeballing that Emmert for some time now. I just can't get anybody related motivated enough to go pick it up for me.

 

[Bhfear]

Been busy with my jeep parts business so I have been out of the vise loop, but I just finished this one up 3" vise. Picked up on ebay for "parts" decided to fix it.. will try to find a swivel base for it at some point. Had a broken static jaw, and some pretty deep cut marks on the dynamic jaw, so got the welder out and got busy. Enjoy the pics.
Thanks, Brock
Before:


After:

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Been busy with my jeep parts business so I have been out of the vise loop, but I just finished this one up 3" vise. Picked up on ebay for "parts" decided to fix it.. will try to find a swivel base for it at some point. Had a broken static jaw, and some pretty deep cut marks on the dynamic jaw, so got the welder out and got busy. Enjoy the pics.
Thanks, Brock
Before:


After:

Nice repair. How old is it?

 

[Bhfear]

That I do not now how old it is, could not find a date stamp on the bottom key, it says pat pend on the one side so I am guessing it is a very early one.

 

[balane]

Great job on bringing that bullet back from the dead. How did you mend that broken jaw shelf? I've ran into a few of those in the past and just left them as is. Very nice work, looks terrific!

 

[Bhfear]

Basically took it to a friend that owns a weld shop, and he tig welded a shelf back to it. then I came back and sanded everything and sanded the upper shelf so the jaw would fit down correctly.

 

[drivesitfar]

I posted a bunch of pictures of my Prentiss #26 coachmaker's vise on the thread I started after I have taken the jaw out in case anybody would like to see it. I did find that there is a pin that goes through horizontally that also keeps the swivel jaw from swiveling. i'm guessing it has never been taken out because not a mark on it. also is it straight so can I knock it out from either side with a punch? once I get it coming out the other side do I grab it with a vise grip or what is the best way to pull it out. for almost a 100 year old vise it looks pretty decent inside and I only found a small worm hole in the jaw as it's only flaw as i'm taking it apart. pictures of the pin going through the jaw from both sides are attached.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

I posted a bunch of pictures of my Prentiss #26 coachmaker's vise on the thread I started after I have taken the jaw out in case anybody would like to see it. I did find that there is a pin that goes through horizontally that also keeps the swivel jaw from swiveling. i'm guessing it has never been taken out because not a mark on it. also is it straight so can I knock it out from either side with a punch? once I get it coming out the other side do I grab it with a vise grip or what is the best way to pull it out. for almost a 100 year old vise it looks pretty decent inside and I only found a small worm hole in the jaw as it's only flaw as i'm taking it apart. pictures of the pin going through the jaw from both sides are attached.

On my American Scale, I Just drove the pin out.

 

[Outlawmws]

Am I seeing a straight screwdriver slot on the side pin?

I'd guess that pin is to help keep the jaw in place during rotation; you probably don't want to take it out until the back tapered pin is out.

 

[drivesitfar]

yes I just saw those. I think that pin goes through them. good eye my friend. now i'm wondering if the original owner never wanted it to swivel or maybe it was defective with the newer looks like aluminum pin through the swivel jaw and the other one half way through I
t. I guess if I drive the one out that goes through and maybe drill the one out that goes to or thru the swivel jaw pin I could always put them back if it didn't work. i'm still more than a bit curious how to take the base swivel off or should I really just leave that alone???

 

[BFBOB]

Anyone got a busted dynamic jaw with a 3" x 2" cast iron slide to spare? Easiest way to fix my Yost No. 1 would be cut a patch out of a similar slide. (see post 11590). The missing piece is a bit less than 4" long. PM me if you can help resurrect this beast.
I just pulled the dynamic jaw out of the electrolysis tank, and the parting lines of the jaw faces are visible. No fasteners, so it must be one of the cast-in types. They're in pretty good shape; cross hatching still distinct.

 

[Outlawmws]

You don't show the bottom of that Prentiss, but there should be a shoulder bolt in the center. get that out and the base should follow. if you had the more common lock screw(s) to lock it then that would also need to be taken loose, but you appear to have a spring loaded pin and set angles for the swivel lock?

 

[drivesitfar]

Regarding: Prentiss #26 coachmaker's vise that I started a new thread on in in the general tool section in case any of you others would like to give me your method or thoughts and don't want to keep posting on this one. also I have a ton of photos now on that thread of it partially apart.

A crescent wrench doesn't seem to be the correct tool to loosen the bottom bolt. would a vise grip be the correct one or what tool would I need? also since you say it is spring loaded should I be wearing safety glasses instead of readers when I take the bottom off? will the spring loaded action be fairly easy to replace when I'm ready to? thanks

 

[Gray Ford]

Hi All .. Long time lurker ... Seldom post ...
Outlaw talked me into posting photos of this Craftsman # 5222 Vise a friend of mine just found... .
No COO marked anywhere .. Only marking is " Craftsman 5222" ...
Neither of us have seen anything like it before ..
The slide is hex shaped & and the anvil has a horn on it.

The handles are all brushed steel ... No chrome ....

The jaw width is 3 1/2" ...

Anybody have any clues ???

Thanks in advance ......

 

[Outlawmws]

I'm assuming it's a hex head bolt? (some are giant straight blade screws...)

Best if hex is a socket, or if not a box end wrench. don't go near it with vise grips, you will tear it up and you don't want to do that to an fine old Prentiss...

The spring is self contained to the side pin, so no worries there. The center pivot bolt won't have a spring

 

[Lump]

A couple folks on here had asked to be notified if I decided to sell some of my better vises. I have 3 now in the GJ classifieds, if anyone is interested. Happy holidays, folks!

 

[Outlawmws]

OK My latest addition: an American Scale CO. Kansas City Mo. Red Seal #66

6" jaws, 25" long. I need to weigh it when the Son unit re-surfaces from the GF unit's house to help unload... It is the stationary base model but looks like the swivel base could be bolted right on.

You really don't realize just how much bigger even an inch in jaw width makes these puppies, and there is just no comparison to the 2" difference from a 4" vise. the 7's and 8's must be staggering in person...

The daylight pics are from the ad, and yes those are 6" X 16" blocks it's on...

the trunk pic is after it came home. more later when I get it unloaded.

 

[Lump]

Geez, that thing is a monster, Outlaw. Nice haul!

And yes, you're right...the vises with 8" jaw width are massive. I still have that giant Ridge Tool company 8", hiding under a workbench, gathering dust... Takes two strong men straining hard, or an engine hoist to move it.

 

[drivesitfar]

I didn't see that I shouldn't use vise grips on the center bolt on the bottom bolt of my Prentiss #26 and gave them a try. since I had soaked it in the magic ($17 per little can) of rusty bolt solution it came out nicely so the bottom of my Prentiss is now off and in a box. I also managed to knock the pin out and push the screw insert out with a hammer tapping on my gas main key (it was about the right size and only thing handy). thanks for letting me know that I could just take that bolt out. by the way if you were closer and were not planning on keeping Big Red, i'd be interested in buying it for my old Boeing Surplus metal bench. nice find and curious if it tips 150 pounds. thank you all for your help and now to figure out how to set up a "E" tank or maybe the radiator shop should do this one?

 

[rennebew]

Reed 406
Later model with replaceable jaw inserts

 

[Outlawmws]

Drivesit, do the E tank, its a good thing to have in the skill set!

A 5 gallon bucket some re-bar, washing soda or Spa PH+, and a battery charger and you are set. Lots of E tank threads here, and lots of them if you Google. one strong suggestion: do not use SS for the anodes, (rebar), and keep plated to not iron/steel parts out of it. Do that ind is't very safe and easy.