Outlawmws
Well-known member
Take a look and a cue from the Emmerts that have received the best prices on Eprey. I suspect the high rollers would want it as original as possible.
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
Take a look and a cue from the Emmerts that have received the best prices on Eprey. I suspect the high rollers would want it as original as possible.
Thrumcap
Well-known member
Ah, hindsight :> Next time, I'll take the bigger car.
jakemac
Well-known member
BTDT ! 
joe.striper
Well-known member
outlaw, show me some completed listing? I cannor find a thing on there except for the normal style Emmert pattern vises, nothing like this one. All the old ones that are similar to mine are grease covered. There was no hint of paint on mine at all, not a drip.
I think it will end up black or spruce green with lots of exposed metal.
Fretters
Well-known member
You're just going to have to go with instinct on that one. IMHO, the more neutral the better. Paint something like that Kermit Green, and people will dislike you for it. 
Black or Olive Drab, satin finish, are about the least imposing to go with. With something like that, you're walking a fine line. Anything you do at all is likely to make a restorer not interested in buying it, and going too far in any other direction is likely to deter another unknown percentage. Just make sure that whatever remedial work you do to it, you do well. The Spruce Green might work okay too. Hard to gauge until it's on.
Black or Olive Drab, satin finish, are about the least imposing to go with. With something like that, you're walking a fine line. Anything you do at all is likely to make a restorer not interested in buying it, and going too far in any other direction is likely to deter another unknown percentage. Just make sure that whatever remedial work you do to it, you do well. The Spruce Green might work okay too. Hard to gauge until it's on.wrenchguy
Well-known member
I went to day to a farm auction outside River John in Nova Scotia. There I expected to find a Record No. 100 4" vise, which I picked up for $15.
What I did not expect to see was an 8" Columbian blacksmith's vise. Here'a a couple photos for posterity -
it went for $75....
Thrumcap
Please explain the factory looking short leg? i seen several like it and think they must had extensions? Maybe different lengths? Please chime in if u have anything to add.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Wrench: i'd like to know more about Blacksmith vises too. i'm guessing the short leg versions were to mount those to a block of wood or a stand and have them at a level easier for shorter Blacksmiths or giving more leverage to taller ones?
here's one mounted to a stand in my local Craigs that also looks factory.
Thumb: for $75 i don't think you did too shabby considering the guy selling the one in these pictures wants $500 for his.
Joe: i'm not sure why you don't want Boiled linseed or some other natural finish on your Emmert because most of the ones I've seen are all more of a bare metal finish. check out some of the collector and woodworking forums and i'm pretty sure i haven't seen a painted one yet. of course my saying is your vise your color, but it sounds like you want to sell it to fund some more vise purchases or get your bride some flowers.
here's one mounted to a stand in my local Craigs that also looks factory.
Thumb: for $75 i don't think you did too shabby considering the guy selling the one in these pictures wants $500 for his.
Joe: i'm not sure why you don't want Boiled linseed or some other natural finish on your Emmert because most of the ones I've seen are all more of a bare metal finish. check out some of the collector and woodworking forums and i'm pretty sure i haven't seen a painted one yet. of course my saying is your vise your color, but it sounds like you want to sell it to fund some more vise purchases or get your bride some flowers.
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jakemac
Well-known member
I've never seen one in person, but I think the jaw arms are longer on one of those beasts. So the leg would be shorter to get a standard (not that there was a standard) overall height.
Thrumcap
Well-known member
Wrench: Seems to me to be a matter of proportion: you want the vise at waist height or lower, say... the 8" blacksmith vise covers most of that distance with the jaws and workings, hence the short leg. For a 3" vise, smaller workings, longer leg required. That 8" vise is about 3' long, and probably wouldn't fit by length or depth in that oil barrel it's on.
Drives: Not too shabby for the other guy who bought it :> :> Next time
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FMC1959
Well-known member
Joe, like Fretters and others say, you need to keep it classic looking, sorry Oldie, "arrest me red" would not work here.
Also, do not go for an overly glossy finish, not completely flat either, something in between. The ones I have seen that I personally like the most are either black or the "browned" look, be it painted or just an oiled finish developed over many years.
I think what is key is that this model has many contrasting and highlighted areas. I have seen some Rustoleum hammered bronze/copper colors that could be nice, or black and you do the lettering highlights, but not white, something gold or bronze would look nice.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Others have made the point already, but while THIS Emmert doesn't have a lot of examples on Eprey, many of the patternmaker/woodworkers Emmerts DO show up and are indicative. What finish do they get, and how are the higher priced ones finished?
It's an industrial tool from a time when glossy paints and fancy colors were not used generally.
Look at pics on Google image, what do you see? Follow the links and see what those web pages ha to say.
Personally I'd go with flat/satin black, or linseed oiled and be done...
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joe.striper
Well-known member
Thanks for the links. I had seen the second one but not the first. That one is a huge help with lots of color on the vise and a really good shot of the locking knob on the side. It v appears that there is some sort of screw on the top right behind the swiveling jaws. Mine is sheared off but for the life of me i cannot figure it's purpose.
i've been playing with boiled linseed oil on some of my other vises but not an option fot this one. I have pitting that is unacceptable to me on the front of the dynamic that ive been working with metal epoxy. It sets up like metal and is strong and hard:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/J-B-Weld...y-Putty-Stick-8247/202528470#customer_reviews
Great stuff for this sort of cosmetic refinishing but it wont take oil well; therefore, for me this vise will be either black, black hammertone or the dark spruce green in satin.
You guys have all been a great help on this rebuild. I'll take some pics of the vise in its raw state tonight.
jakemac
Well-known member
On tools that I want to "restore" the original black finish, I use Rustolium's Satin Black. I think it gives a good balance between a flat finish and that "new car smell".
The original black finish on old tools would have had a little sheen to it. Oil base paints and finishes have a gloss to them, due to the linseed oil base that was used for a long time. Satin and Flat finishes came later by adding something to the paint to break up the surface at a microscopic level.
Tools that were used would quickly fade to what we call a satin finish with use and handling then to a flat(ish) finish as natural scrapes and grime affected the paint. That's why we now see that old paint as being Flat.
As for the pattern vise, your market to sell it will be very small. Most collectors will want it in "as found" (but clean) condition, the users will be ok with a new paint job as long as it's done well and doesn't interfere with the vise's use. The problem with finding a user is that there are very few people left that actually sharpen their own handsaws, let alone use one at all (this is the same reason why no-one recognizes a saw-set when they see one).
I'd recommend going Satin Black and try to thread the needle between the sellers, and hope for the best. Any other color will limit your potential buyers to an even smaller pool than it already is.
The original black finish on old tools would have had a little sheen to it. Oil base paints and finishes have a gloss to them, due to the linseed oil base that was used for a long time. Satin and Flat finishes came later by adding something to the paint to break up the surface at a microscopic level.
Tools that were used would quickly fade to what we call a satin finish with use and handling then to a flat(ish) finish as natural scrapes and grime affected the paint. That's why we now see that old paint as being Flat.
As for the pattern vise, your market to sell it will be very small. Most collectors will want it in "as found" (but clean) condition, the users will be ok with a new paint job as long as it's done well and doesn't interfere with the vise's use. The problem with finding a user is that there are very few people left that actually sharpen their own handsaws, let alone use one at all (this is the same reason why no-one recognizes a saw-set when they see one).
I'd recommend going Satin Black and try to thread the needle between the sellers, and hope for the best. Any other color will limit your potential buyers to an even smaller pool than it already is.
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Hello Fellow Vise Guys.
I have been restoring vises for a while, but this is my first post thanks to Joe Striper. Hope everyone enjoys my York Restoration as much as I enjoyed doing it. It is a great vise and I understand why the design was stolen for what is now Wilton.
I have been restoring vises for a while, but this is my first post thanks to Joe Striper. Hope everyone enjoys my York Restoration as much as I enjoyed doing it. It is a great vise and I understand why the design was stolen for what is now Wilton.
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rmalkow2
Well-known member
Picked up these three oldies today via a CL ad and I was amazed I was able to get to them first since it had been out there for almost a day and they were priced cheap.
A Columbian 603
A Prentiss Bulldog No. 50 with one jaw insert missing.
A Yost 103 1/2 but missing the handle.
Cost a total of $50, a 45 minute drive north and a ride for the seller to the local store for some smokes! He was stuck at home without a car. That's a new one for me but you meet all types of interesting people via CL.
A Columbian 603
A Prentiss Bulldog No. 50 with one jaw insert missing.
A Yost 103 1/2 but missing the handle.
Cost a total of $50, a 45 minute drive north and a ride for the seller to the local store for some smokes! He was stuck at home without a car. That's a new one for me but you meet all types of interesting people via CL.
ShadowRuleZ
Well-known member
Couple of us were trying for those vises, congrats!
joe.striper
Well-known member
The detail on this vise is fantastic Mariovise. Thanks for posting and welcome aboard.
FMC1959
Well-known member
Agreed, welcome aboard and an absolute gorgeous restoration you did there.
FMC1959
Well-known member
Please post other restorations you have, if they are anything like this York, they will be a treat to see
Thanks Kev, I'd like to sell that 434 1/2" it as is maybe even here on the journal. The only thing wrong with it is that Parker made these handles undersize and its bent a little. Other then that, its Grade A-
It wouldn't be my favourite in terms of my own aexthetic preference (a light French grey, or a soft pale green would suit me), but, for a 'collector', you really must do your best to duplicate, or 'replicate' the original finish.
To do this, mix your paint as did the machinery builders of that time-frame......boiled linseed oil, a bit of japan dryer, 'pigment' and thin to suit with either mineral spirits or turpentine. The colour 'pigment' is simply 'carbon black', available in an ultra-fine powder as 'lampblack'.
You can find 'recipes' for this class of paint, on the internet, and vary the proportions of the ingredients a bit for purpose of experiment, on 'dummy' parts, til you get the optimal 'body' and 'flow-out' character of the paint.
This will replicate the original finish. The generality of small products like vises usually had some amount of 'filler' trowelled with a putty-knife onto the rougher spots in the castings. Some makers would use more filler than did others, depending on the amount of a worker's time they would allot for finishlng.
Remember, this was a class of tool which would get only a 'mediocre' class of paint-work, when it was built.
(the Emmert Co. did use a green for their post-war production of the patternmakers' vise, but all of their production except for the last few years was always black. (altho there could be exceptions.......they may well have finished one or another lot in some specific colour, to special order.....some large hardware supply houses would specify a 'special' colour, as a 'sales gimmick'.)
You can use modern 'fillers' and no one will know the difference.....if you'd wish to be 'correct', the recipes for the old-time fillers can also be found on the internet.
cheers
Carla
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joe.striper
Well-known member
joe.striper
Well-known member
joe.striper
Well-known member
everyone thanks for ALL the info, so many strong opinions here. Next time i'll discuss politics or relligion...less controversey that way!
Fretters
Well-known member
everyone thanks for ALL the info, so many strong opinions here. Next time i'll discuss politics or relligion...less controversey that way!
It's all the fun of restoration.
Some things you can literally have carte blanche with, and other things you have to be very sympathetic towards. When you're aiming for a premium price on resale too, you have to tread carefully and realise that what one envisages or prefers isn't necessarily what others might want. Then you have to take into account that we all have our personal preferences and approaches too, and it becomes a right old mixed bag of opinions. For example, (and this isn't intended to be a downer type comment, as I think the same when I see some other restorations too), I personally think that is way too shiny and smoothed up. IMHO, that has pretty much lost all patina and some character along with it. I do, however, appreciate the amount of work and effort which goes into making them look that condition.
(Conversely, some would look at the things I do and think it appears to have been 'cleaned up' in a half arsed fashion, as I tend to leave some original surface patina whilst also cleaning it to some degree). Doing that has likely ruled out the proportion of potential buyers who want originality and patina, and using filler has likely also ruled out the ones who like to finish an untouched item to their own preference, as it would be nigh on impossible to return that to something resembling as found condition. That still leaves people who want a finished item which doesn't require any work on their part, however, so you can see how it works. Once you touch an item in any way or form other than simply degreasing and cleaning it up, you've started aiming at a specific portion of your potential buyers. On the flip side though, if you don't do anything to an item, you're also limiting your potential buyers. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, to be honest. It's a simple case of weighing up the options and going with the one you're happy with.
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Fretters
Well-known member
Just_George
Well-known member
Picked up these three oldies today via a CL ad and I was amazed I was able to get to them first since it had been out there for almost a day and they were priced cheap.
A Columbian 603
A Prentiss Bulldog No. 50 with one jaw insert missing.
A Yost 103 1/2 but missing the handle.
Cost a total of $50, a 45 minute drive north and a ride for the seller to the local store for some smokes! He was stuck at home without a car. That's a new one for me but you meet all types of interesting people via CL.
So YOU'RE the guy....that's alright, it was too far for me to drive!
Going tomorrow to pick up a Parker 272 for $89, so all is not lost!rmalkow2
Well-known member
So YOU'RE the guy....that's alright, it was too far for me to drive!
I did get lucky on these. Good luck with the Parker. I have not added one of those to my collection yet. Hope to one day.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Thrum: sorry i read your post too quick, but sounds like you stole a Record vice and grabbed a good picture of one that got away.
RM: I even saw that ad and was tempted to pay shipping for those three which probably wouldn't have worked if he didn't have a car. nice score.
Mariovise: not sure how Joe led you to post the York vise, but happy to have another guy that knows his way around a good hunk of steel. Welcome and do tell on how you made it so shiny and is it waxed or waiting to be painted or ??
Clara: your knowledge never ceases to amaze me and thanks again for sharing some more of your wisdom.
RM: I even saw that ad and was tempted to pay shipping for those three which probably wouldn't have worked if he didn't have a car. nice score.
Mariovise: not sure how Joe led you to post the York vise, but happy to have another guy that knows his way around a good hunk of steel. Welcome and do tell on how you made it so shiny and is it waxed or waiting to be painted or ??
Clara: your knowledge never ceases to amaze me and thanks again for sharing some more of your wisdom.
joe.striper
Well-known member
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Joe: maybe hire him to finish off the Emmert and you won't have to think about it or be told what color it should be. of course you did set yourself up by asking.
joe.striper
Well-known member
Impressed. Was scrolling thru the thread and came upon this post. I now have a mission to locate a Shop King like this.
Fantastic job balane.
Fretters
Well-known member
joe.striper
Well-known member
Hey without GJ people i never would have bought it. I did want input, and i thought it was all good.
I could have sold it as it was, and i did offer it to the board but since i kept it I didn't want to piss everyone off. So far my vises have sold ok, so i should be ok. i promise no racing stripes or naked ladies, no pink, no baby blue.
Fretters
Well-known member
There have been a couple posted, I believe. Can't remember what they are offhand though. If that's anywhere near you, you ought snap that up at that price, if only for the novelty factor alone.
Fretters
Well-known member
No need to make any hasty decisions. I'm sure that's one thing we could all find it in our hearts to accept, at a push.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Joe: it's a Cole brand (and maybe another name attached) and sort of a blacksmith vise. yes $15 is a deal and it's a pretty decent vise.
Fretters: Stirring the pot is what you do well and wondering if you have made up Carla's brew that she described earlier yet. or have you made one like that before because i think i recall you saying something like those ingredients before.
Mario: Did Joe tell you Wilton stole York's design? i'd like to hear more about that and my thinking was they had two different names for different parts of the world being made by the same owners. not certain on Wilton versus York history so please enlighten me or someone else please do if you know. again nice job on your York.
All: found one in the wild today that needed a new home. 1971 Wilton 4 inch bullet that has had a good life so far and just might need a cleaning and a good coat of boiled linseed over the paint job. or should i strip it and just do boiled linseed? so many options and so few vises.
Fretters: Stirring the pot is what you do well and wondering if you have made up Carla's brew that she described earlier yet. or have you made one like that before because i think i recall you saying something like those ingredients before.
Mario: Did Joe tell you Wilton stole York's design? i'd like to hear more about that and my thinking was they had two different names for different parts of the world being made by the same owners. not certain on Wilton versus York history so please enlighten me or someone else please do if you know. again nice job on your York.
All: found one in the wild today that needed a new home. 1971 Wilton 4 inch bullet that has had a good life so far and just might need a cleaning and a good coat of boiled linseed over the paint job. or should i strip it and just do boiled linseed? so many options and so few vises.
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joe.striper
Well-known member
I read that Wilton was started out of York by their lead salesperson. i believe he came out here previous to the war to scout locations but the factory was absorbed during the war by Germany. I'll try to source it..