Sears Could Be Gone If Slump Lasts Through Christmas

[PureLeaf]

It's a "tool satisfaction" warranty; "If this hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction it will be repaired or replaced free of charge."

It's not a company satisfaction warranty. Also "repaired or replaced" does not equal "refund".

The Craftsman warranty has evolved over the years, some early tools may have a repair, replace, or refund warranty. Been so long I've forgotten.

Right, and my satisfaction in the tools is raised knowing that if they fail, I'm able to warranty them.

I'm willing to put up with some of the lower quality tools knowing that at least they're supported.

So I think my argument is still justified.

 

[David Jackson]

I saw a few mentions of Tiger Direct in this thread. Some years ago I fell for their hype and bought a computer from them; it was a way back maybe in the 1990s. It was a disaster. I shudder every time I get tempted to look something up on their website, assuming they still have one. Talk about poor service, they had it in spades. What a company!
They must have improved though, or they could not still be in business.

 

[Super Sport]

Right, and my satisfaction in the tools is raised knowing that if they fail, I'm able to warranty them.

I'm willing to put up with some of the lower quality tools knowing that at least they're supported.

So I think my argument is still justified.

That's really a silly way to look at it. How many tools have you truly, honestly broken? And I don't mean broken because you were using a screwdriver as a pry bar, or a 4' cheater pipe on a breaker bar.

Craftsman tools are priced so cheap that even if you had to pay to replace the few that ever break, you're better off than having bought most other US-made brands.

 

[Schurkey]

I had to go on-line to research the current Craftsman warranty, which I cut 'n' pasted into a previous post. While I was there, I saw that Craftsman bending-beam torque wrenches also have a "lifetime warranty". There's a damaged one in my garage that I bought a thousand years ago.

So I grab Mr. Defective Torque Wrench, and head to my local Sears.

What a wasteland. There's two guys stacking boxes into the isle; one is talking non-stop, and the other doesn't say a word. The guy talking is complaining about customers who want additional discounts from the marked price. "I tells 'em "this ain't a yard sale". Uh huh. That's my favorite answer. Yup." Distinct silence from the other guy. And from me.

I realized how deeply in trouble Sears is when I'd rather have the damaged item in my hand, than a brand-new one from the display. I'm looking at the new one, priced at $18. I probably paid more than that when I bought it originally.

I walked out with my middle-'70's torque wrench, drove home, and put it right back where I took it from.

Sears was destroyed by incompetent (or outright corrupt) management from the inside-out; and that's comparable to the rest of America. Sears isn't much of a retailer, but they're an excellent lesson in mismanagement, greed, and lack-of-integrity.

 

[PureLeaf]

That's really a silly way to look at it. How many tools have you truly, honestly broken? And I don't mean broken because you were using a screwdriver as a pry bar, or a 4' cheater pipe on a breaker bar.

Craftsman tools are priced so cheap that even if you had to pay to replace the few that ever break, you're better off than having bought most other US-made brands.

Numerous tools. Probably about 3 alligator vise grips because they cant handle side to side torque on a spring. I've had their flathead screwdriver edges warp from removing a really stuck screw. I've had their premium ratchet lock up twice (that issue is well known across these forums). Few others I can't recall.

I've several armstrong sets of pliers that look the same as the craftsman, however when you feel the teeth/cutting of the pliers, there is a very clear distinction in the deeper cut of the teeth in the armstrong pliers. And for cost, as easily available NOS the armstrong (2 dollars per set of pliers off egay) were cheaper then the craftsman. But I buy craftsman knowing they can be warrantied if needed. I buy other tools for quality IE my wright, SK and armstrong stuff.

Without the knowledge of the warranty, to me personally, craftsman tools would provide significant less satisfaction.

 

[PBCampbell]

I realized how deeply in trouble Sears is when I'd rather have the damaged item in my hand, than a brand-new one from the display. I'm looking at the new one, priced at $18. I probably paid more than that when I bought it originally.

I walked out with my middle-'70's torque wrench, drove home, and put it right back where I took it from.

Sears was destroyed by incompetent (or outright corrupt) management from the inside-out; and that's comparable to the rest of America. Sears isn't much of a retailer, but they're an excellent lesson in mismanagement, greed, and lack-of-integrity.

I agree with this post 100%

 

[PBCampbell]

Numerous tools. Probably about 3 alligator vise grips because they cant handle side to side torque on a spring. I've had their flathead screwdriver edges warp from removing a really stuck screw. I've had their premium ratchet lock up twice (that issue is well known across these forums). Few others I can't recall.

I think "Super Sport" is correct and your use of the tools is outside their design parameters. I can't quite imagine your "warping" problem but your plier problem seems to be using them in a way that isn't intended.

 

[Kimarieck]

Sears was destroyed by incompetent (or outright corrupt) management from the inside-out; and that's comparable to the rest of America. Sears isn't much of a retailer, but they're an excellent lesson in mismanagement, greed, and lack-of-integrity.

I was in the regional mall business at an executive level for 34 years and this is exactly correct. Took a long time, though!

 

[Toyota mechanic]

Right, and my satisfaction in the tools is raised knowing that if they fail, I'm able to warranty them.

I'm willing to put up with some of the lower quality tools knowing that at least they're supported.

So I think my argument is still justified.

I have alot of the 'good old' Craftsman tools, by alot.............. ALOT! I don't want China replacement for the old USA, BUT......... I bought quite a bit of the new import stuff. Why??????????? Because if I have to break something, or risk it.. I will risk breaking the China, and receive China... Don't want to break the old ones! I like the warranty, things change........... At least I can get things replaced, that I know breaks often... LIKE BIT SOCKETS. ALL brands break... I have several Cman sets... I'll break the China Cman, and keep getting new ones..

I agree with you. Easiest warranty, right up the street! I am saddened by the China thing! It *****! I have bought the Industrial line... all USA still. I see and agree!

 

[Coach James]

Rarely ever go to sears any more. Their website is horrible not user friendly sorting thru all the non in store items and 3rd party sellers! In store the pushy idiot sales staff last in store experience the cashier could not do simple addition and subtraction in his head and the tool guy did not know the fraction and decimal system! Goes to show how the government school system is today! They need to being back shop class's and make everyone take it.

An adult cannot work with something as simple as fractions and it's the school system's fault? Should the school system also be blamed if someone cannot tie their shoes or tell time on a dial face clock?

The surest way to make a class worthless is require everyone to take it.

Coach

 

[Lhorn]

I for one will mourn the loss of Sears and Craftsman in general. Sure, it will "survive" as a brand, but be a shadow of its former self. It just seemed like an institution (look at that, we're already counting it dead..lol) that was as American as apple pie..../QUOTE]

Agree completely.
85% of my tools are Craftsman obtained over 25+ years but many over the last 5 and they've performed well. They offer a brand/option that is not available at Home Depot and other local stores. Sure you can buy high quality tools online, but there's something to be said for going to a store, checking it out and having it in your hand instead of waiting for a 3-7 days. Does HD even carry flare wrenches and stuff like that? Clothes and stuff like that I won't necessarily miss, but I've gotten a lot of tools, grill, hoses, elliptical machine, TV etc at Sears recently and have been very happy and especially with tools, getting an item on sale and getting a great price is like falling off a log.

I'd be fine if they downsized to just carry tools, lawn and garden, TV's, appliances. I think they could so those things well enough to survive, but more than 1/2 of their store is the other stuff that they can't compete on.

 

[-Hey_Now-]

I feel for the long standing full-timers and pensioners. How does management sleep at night

 

[egnorant]

The realization has finally become real to me. Craftsman tools currently available are bad quality and overpriced...barely worth walking across the street for a warranty swap.

Items recently swapped were a collection of a lifetime that I finally exchanged. Last week while tightening a 17mm bolt with my new, recently swapped 1/2" ratchet, 3 inch extension and a short 6 side socket from a gift set fom 3 years ago I first split the socket. Replaced it with an old Thorsen socket and tried again...SNAP! extension blows up! Well, a quick change to a Proto was next. 3rd try was the charm...except the ratchet stripped...I was sad. If I had used excessive force I would understand.

Now with my old SK ratchet that was literally dug up a month ago, Proto extension and Thorsen socket I was tight in about 20 seconds.

Sadly, I must add China Craftsman tools to this years list of things I will advise against...along with beets, Justin Bieber and fun-sized candy.

Oh, and the poor girls at Sears were clueless, frustrated and spent most of their time fighting through computer confusion. Just to replace a 1/4 ratchet took 40 minutes, 3 people, manager approval and my help finding the tool.

Bruce

 

[Parrothead]

I feel for the long standing full-timers and pensioners. How does management sleep at night

On very nice fluffy high thread count pillows.

 

[rsanter]

I feel for the long standing full-timers and pensioners. How does management sleep at night

On a pile,of money thay they have bilked from the company.
The ones at the top mKe big wages for making stupid decisions , not managing their mid level managers, and not keeping up with market trends

Bob

 

[ravenzfusion]

I have a stripped out 1/4" ratchet and 1/2" RP ratchet which i wont even bother to warranty because i know it'll break again in no time. horrible ratchets.

 

[purplezr2]

That's really a silly way to look at it. How many tools have you truly, honestly broken? And I don't mean broken because you were using a screwdriver as a pry bar, or a 4' cheater pipe on a breaker bar.

Craftsman tools are priced so cheap that even if you had to pay to replace the few that ever break, you're better off than having bought most other US-made brands.

I have broke alot of sockets and ratchets, and a few wrenches and 1/2 to 3/8 adapters.

 

[F350]

Cripes.

I have a Craftsman 1/2 drive torque wrench that needs calibration. From the looks of it, I shouldn't bother taking it to Sears. It's my only torque wrench.

I'm not really impressed with their auto tools, either, but they were at the right price. I still have a bit of their tools, all USA made purchased 5+ years ago. I hate the ratchet handles.

Might go down there and see if I can get something cheap.

 

[Toyota mechanic]

The realization has finally become real to me. Craftsman tools currently available are bad quality and overpriced...barely worth walking across the street for a warranty swap.

Items recently swapped were a collection of a lifetime that I finally exchanged. Last week while tightening a 17mm bolt with my new, recently swapped 1/2" ratchet, 3 inch extension and a short 6 side socket from a gift set fom 3 years ago I first split the socket. Replaced it with an old Thorsen socket and tried again...SNAP! extension blows up! Well, a quick change to a Proto was next. 3rd try was the charm...except the ratchet stripped...I was sad. If I had used excessive force I would understand.

Now with my old SK ratchet that was literally dug up a month ago, Proto extension and Thorsen socket I was tight in about 20 seconds.

Sadly, I must add China Craftsman tools to this years list of things I will advise against...along with beets, Justin Bieber and fun-sized candy.

Oh, and the poor girls at Sears were clueless, frustrated and spent most of their time fighting through computer confusion. Just to replace a 1/4 ratchet took 40 minutes, 3 people, manager approval and my help finding the tool.

Bruce

To never have to sacrifice, my USA Cman tools, I bought a cart full of the China stuff,, and decided they were the tools to chance breaking if that occasion arised. Who wants to trade a 1971 ratchet, etc... for a new one?

I lubed the ratchets, and purposely used the new Cman China tools, I did notice some unflattering differences, but........... I put 20" long pipe on a 3/8 drive flex head ratchet, and on the wrenches for a few suspension jobs, purposely not grabbing the larger more appropriate sized tools for the job, and ................................................

They didn't break! lol... I hate that they switched to China, but the tools are not really bad, just not finished as well, and fairly strong, barring you don't get a dud... The last USA stuff, since the late 90's wasn't top notch either, so for warranty purposes, I still think They are a good alternative.

The new China Cman ratchets have a metal release button, and they seem smooth. From what I can tell, strong if you get a on spec. one... The wrenches don't look as nice, but definitely have strength.. Same with the sockets.

They are no more junk, than the USA that became junk in the final years of it.

 

[Toyota mechanic]

My abuse of the China Cman tools will stop, and go back to normal usage, but the test was fun!

High end China tools are like beautiful chubby women. They keep becoming more abundant, and even if you don't like, or prefer it; they can get your nuts off just the same...............

 

[Schurkey]

I put 20" long pipe on a 3/8 drive flex head ratchet, and on the wrenches for a few suspension jobs, purposely not grabbing the larger more appropriate sized tools for the job, and ................................................

They didn't break! lol... I hate that they switched to China, but the tools are not really bad, just not finished as well, and fairly strong, barring you don't get a dud... The last USA stuff, since the late 90's wasn't top notch either, so for warranty purposes, I still think They are a good alternative.

The new China Cman ratchets have a metal release button, and they seem smooth. From what I can tell, strong if you get a on spec. one... The wrenches don't look as nice, but definitely have strength.. Same with the sockets.

They are no more junk, than the USA that became junk in the final years of it.

Any tool can break, even top-shelf USA stuff.

I was removing cylinder heads from my '93 Lumina. The head bolts spec is torque-angle; and I wanted to know how much torque it would take to loosen them about 20 years later. The answer was between 160 and 170 ft/lbs; crudely based on a 5% accurate (CCW) click-type torque wrench that was progressively set to higher and higher torques until the bolts began to turn.

This socket popped after it had been used to break loose several head bolts. (Sounded like a .22 round had been fired.) It's a 3/8 drive six-point 15 mm.

This is, of course, not altogether a scientific test--the socket wasn't new when I started, (note the "old" logo) and the sample number is "1". In fact, it wasn't a test at all, it was "just what happened" when I made a poor decision to use 3/8 drive tools when I should have chosen 1/2 drive tools.

I wonder how much torque a similar (15mm, 6-point, 3/8 drive) American Craftsman socket will take, and also a Chinese Craftsman, and a 15 mm 3/8 drive Chinese Craftsman "Universal" (meaning Spline, but Craftsman prefers a silly name) socket.

 

[MagnumForce]

Any tool can break, even top-shelf USA stuff.

I was removing cylinder heads from my '93 Lumina. The head bolts spec is torque-angle; and I wanted to know how much torque it would take to loosen them about 20 years later. The answer was between 160 and 170 ft/lbs; crudely based on a 5% accurate (CCW) click-type torque wrench that was progressively set to higher and higher torques until the bolts began to turn.

This socket popped after it had been used to break loose several head bolts. (Sounded like a .22 round had been fired.) It's a 3/8 drive six-point 15 mm.

This is, of course, not altogether a scientific test--the socket wasn't new when I started, (note the "old" logo) and the sample number is "1". In fact, it wasn't a test at all, it was "just what happened" when I made a poor decision to use 3/8 drive tools when I should have chosen 1/2 drive tools.

I wonder how much torque a similar (15mm, 6-point, 3/8 drive) American Craftsman socket will take, and also a Chinese Craftsman, and a 15 mm 3/8 drive Chinese Craftsman "Universal" (meaning Spline, but Craftsman prefers a silly name) socket.

Challenge accepted

 

[wvrailroader]

On very nice fluffy high thread count pillows.

I was gonna say they sleep like a baby on their pillows stuffed with ill-gotten cash

 

[Schurkey]

Challenge accepted

This is going to be FUN! I can hardly wait to see your results. I have Bill Cosby's voice in my head, from the Fat Albert TV series: "...and if [we're] not careful, [we] might learn something before it's done."

Kinda hate to see an American Craftsman socket sacrificed, though. Science isn't always pretty. Or convenient.

My Lumina headbolt heads were, of course, 6-point, with reasonably but not unusually tall heads. I suppose you'll have to run a bolt or three* into a through-threaded steel block, probably weld them on the bottom to prevent the bolts from turning, and then secure the test fixture into a (big) vice. It'd be near-impossible to duplicate my 20-year seized/non-lubricated head bolts unless you happen to have a bad head gasket on an early-'90's GM W-body 3.4.

*If it were me, I'd want several bolt heads available in case one (or more) of the bolt heads become damaged. A damaged bolt head won't load the next socket properly.

When did Snap-On discontinue that logo? I'm thinking my socket dates to the '80's or early '90's.

 

[monomach]

I have a stripped out 1/4" ratchet and 1/2" RP ratchet which i wont even bother to warranty because i know it'll break again in no time. horrible ratchets.

Warranty out your raised panels and donate them to a local high school automotive or small engines program.

 

[mrvm]

Great idea to donate the unwanted CM hand tools and maybe qualify for a tax deduction. I ain't got a bad CM hand tool to donate just yet except for the Robo Grip....but then it might become a collectors in a hundred years

 

[Hiball]

No Wonder Sears is in the *******, They have people blatantly trying to Destroy there tools, This place gets weirder by the Day..

 

[Toyota mechanic]

No Wonder Sears is in the *******, They have people blatantly trying to Destroy there tools, This place gets weirder by the Day..

No usually, just to see if the China tools were really junk or not.... They passed the gauntlet on getting the job done, and being strong, but failed in fit and finish... Normally no tools are abused!

 

[Toyota mechanic]

I have a stripped out 1/4" ratchet and 1/2" RP ratchet which i wont even bother to warranty because i know it'll break again in no time. horrible ratchets.

I use Craftsman day in, day out, very rarely break anything... I guess mileage may vary. There are finer tools for sure, but I have never had issues like others describe..

 

[Toyota mechanic]

Any tool can break, even top-shelf USA stuff.

I was removing cylinder heads from my '93 Lumina. The head bolts spec is torque-angle; and I wanted to know how much torque it would take to loosen them about 20 years later. The answer was between 160 and 170 ft/lbs; crudely based on a 5% accurate (CCW) click-type torque wrench that was progressively set to higher and higher torques until the bolts began to turn.

This socket popped after it had been used to break loose several head bolts. (Sounded like a .22 round had been fired.) It's a 3/8 drive six-point 15 mm.

This is, of course, not altogether a scientific test--the socket wasn't new when I started, (note the "old" logo) and the sample number is "1". In fact, it wasn't a test at all, it was "just what happened" when I made a poor decision to use 3/8 drive tools when I should have chosen 1/2 drive tools.

I wonder how much torque a similar (15mm, 6-point, 3/8 drive) American Craftsman socket will take, and also a Chinese Craftsman, and a 15 mm 3/8 drive Chinese Craftsman "Universal" (meaning Spline, but Craftsman prefers a silly name) socket.

I think it depends. One would need a few sockets of each brand to test. They are not all created equal, even in the same brand. Strength and mileage may vary.

 

[Hiball]

No usually, just to see if the China tools were really junk or not.... They passed the gauntlet on getting the job done, and being strong, but failed in fit and finish... Normally no tools are abused!

I don't Get it.. I really only care if the tool allows me to complete a task, I don't care if the inside of my SK socket is painted or has surface rust, Don't care if my Wrench beam is a 1/64" wider where they stamped the size/Brand or the multitude of other brand complaints that run rampant here. Maybe that's just Me...

 

[monomach]

I don't Get it.. I really only care if the tool allows me to complete a task, I don't care if the inside of my SK socket is painted or has surface rust, Don't care if my Wrench beam is a 1/64" wider where they stamped the size/Brand or the multitude of other brand complaints that run rampant here. Maybe that's just Me...

Oh, god. This one gets me every time. "OH MY GOD YOU GUYS THE INSIDE OF THIS SOCKET ISN'T EVEN SHINY! THIS BRAND *****!"

That right there is a guy who never used the socket. Otherwise, the dull paint would have worn off.

 

[Toyota mechanic]

I don't Get it.. I really only care if the tool allows me to complete a task, I don't care if the inside of my SK socket is painted or has surface rust, Don't care if my Wrench beam is a 1/64" wider where they stamped the size/Brand or the multitude of other brand complaints that run rampant here. Maybe that's just Me...

I was just curious... By my week of real life, semi-brutal testing, I know the China Craftsman tools are still worth it to have warranty ease.... I am personally satisfied by my 'testing'...... I couldn't say they were weak without proof. The results say they are functionally strong... Cman China is sad, but very usable. To me that was important. Most guys just say, they are China, so they ****. I said, lets see?

 

[Hiball]

I was just curious... By my week of real life, semi-brutal testing, I know the China Craftsman tools are still worth it to have warranty ease.... I am personally satisfied by my 'testing'...... I couldn't say they were weak without proof. The results say they are functionally strong... Cman China is sad, but very usable. To me that was important. Most guys just say, they are China, so they ****. I said, lets see?

And that is ALL that MATTERS.. Me Personally, I don't want a tool that im going to need to take time out of my day to warranty, Even if its across the street. I put very little thought into Warranties, I do the Best to buy the brand that fits my "Criteria" and call it Good, When I was Young and Dumb and still learning how to Wrench I tore up a lot of Craftsman tools, As you get more seasoned you learn to use the correct tool for the Job and surprisingly your Warranty claims start to shrink to the point where they are laughable. Obviously tools wear.. I wont dispute that, and definitely sooner for some versus others depending on there rate of use.

 

[redmed]

I have a 30+ year old Craftsman tool cabinet that I have been meaning to get the middle chest for years. I figured I better get it now before they are not available anymore. I have read of how the quality of these tool cabinets have gone downhill, but I'm not finding the new middle chest to be noticeably worse. I have not filled the drawers yet so I may be judging too soon. One thing I have found is the old drawers have a 1/4" lip on the top of the drawer front. The new drawer does not have this lip. This is good because my wrench holder is much easier to fit inside the drawer without the lip.

 

[Nessal]

In the VERY FEW times that I go to Sears I almost always get the parking spot closest to the door. I don't even have to look behind me when I back out of the parking spot because there are no cars to run into.

My parents are probably spinning in their graves, they bought everything at Sears. I still have a lot of Craftsman and Dunlap tools that my Dad bought in the 1950's and 60's. My brothers and I would fight over the Sears Christmas Toy catalog when it came in the mail every year.

Man, I still remember those catalogs. They were THICK sons of a gun and I would spend days looking at the toy section over and over again. Such good memories. Now it's sad to see how it is going to end.

 

[Snap_cap]

Oh, god. This one gets me every time. "OH MY GOD YOU GUYS THE INSIDE OF THIS SOCKET ISN'T EVEN SHINY! THIS BRAND *****!"

That right there is a guy who never used the socket. Otherwise, the dull paint would have worn off.

Couple people on this site have raised that hue and cry.


It's hilarious.

 

[d.mcfarland]

The new China Cman ratchets have a metal release button, and they seem smooth. From what I can tell, strong

I agree. I got a 3/8 flex head that was chinese made and the initial quality is higher than the plastic stuff on the USA ones. From what I've read here though is that the steel isn't the best and will bend easier than the older USA versions. Food for thought at least.

 

[MagnumForce]

The Inferior steel thing is Bs. I use them every day, it is just toll snobs reaching.

 

[wild cowboy]

other than cracking chrome on the G series sockets and extensions, a couple of Phillips screwdrivers, and one stripped ratchet, no Craftsman failures in 40 years! (however, I have never owned any non-USA Craftsman)

what did fail was a fairly nice 26" toolbox, drawer issues and it is badly rusting on the bottom of the top box, and has never been out in the rain!