The dump next door is finally mine

[jkwilson]

What would be the chances of salvaging enough usable material to get a start on the garage build? Do you think the wall studs, rafters, joists, etcetera , would be worth stacking neatly and covering for future use?

Chances are there will be quite a bit of work involved in separating the studs from the lath. Hardwood floors can be worth some money, even if it doesn't look like much now. Subfloor and sheathing are often hardwood, and could have salvageable lumber.

There is value in the framing lumber, but it usually is offset by the labor required to recover it. It's not unheard of for there to be value in the bricks from the chimney, but don't forget you will need fill for the basement, so giving them away and then buying fill would be a bad idea.

Even things like switch and outlet covers, roof vents and plumbing and electrical fixtures can have value because people restoring old houses have to buy salvage.

 

[skcj213]

I don't think the house has plaster walls. It received extensive remodeling in, I am guessing, the 60's and was turned into a duplex. I tapped on the walls and they sound hollow, like dry wall, not solid like plaster. I might go over in the next day or 2 and knock a couple of holes in the walls to see what they are made of. It could be the exterior walls are plaster and the interior are dry wall.

 

[brycez28]

Check with you local habitat for humanity. In college our group did a couple trips down south and they did complete demos, keeping any salvageable materials.

 

[skcj213]

I am in a small town in Southern Illinois. We don't have a local habitat for humanity.

 

[woodzy]

I have the exact same issue - They only problem I see is liability if someone hurts themselves tearing out items they want. The house I purchased had brand new doors, drywall, insulation (still in bats and bundles). I've sold all the loose stuff I could but the rest will be going in dumpsters. Too bad you can't help people out but the cost of a lawsuit if someone get hurt is way to risky.

I'm hoping 5-6 40 yard dumpsters and all the concrete can go in the crawl space and filled over with dirt - this will only be a side yard to my new house.

 

[Blue]

Paying for demolition is not an option. I have already received a quote for $8,000. We already have probably $10,000 more into the house and lot than what the lot itself is worth. Dropping another $8k is just not an option.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I may go against the grain here, but have you gotten more than one estimate?

I think the backhoe guy I've used in the past charges like $100-$130 an hour, something like that. A good days work ends up about $1000. I've gotten 30 yd dumpsters dumped for about $350 or so.

Figure another several hundred bucks to bring in dirt to fill in the hole.

$8k seems a little excessive, but I'm no expert. Did they itemize it out at all? Or just look at the house and throw out a number?

I'm all for DIY, but tearing down a whole house sounds like a big damn pain.

 

[garrett1812]

If the whole neighborhood is glad this house is comign down, maybe they will help out. Pick a weekend, put up some signs, and order a bunch of pizzas.

 

[Strouty]

I really feel like this should have been a conversation you would have had before you purchased the place. You may find that there is asbestos and lead in there as well. If it has a septic you may have even more issues. Sometimes a small town can be worse in these situations because the CEO or whatever inspector may have nothing better to do. I wish you luck.

 

[AZ Pete]

Many years ago my Dad and I got an old house given to us to demolish. We got enough dimension lumber from it to build his 24x36 shop, less the trusses doors and shingles.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Unfortunately the house isn't fit for use. It has a center brick chimney that also supports the floor. The joists and sills have rotted to the point that the floor around the perimeter of the house has dropped at least a couple of inches, not a level floor in the place.

Likely can not be moved.

 

[ishiboo]

I may go against the grain here, but have you gotten more than one estimate?

I think the backhoe guy I've used in the past charges like $100-$130 an hour, something like that. A good days work ends up about $1000. I've gotten 30 yd dumpsters dumped for about $350 or so.

Figure another several hundred bucks to bring in dirt to fill in the hole.

$8k seems a little excessive, but I'm no expert. Did they itemize it out at all? Or just look at the house and throw out a number?

I'm all for DIY, but tearing down a whole house sounds like a big damn pain.

My excavation contractor called me a few months ago, he did a quote on a house that the people wanted torn down... he said they would give it to me but I had to pay $2,000 in back taxes. As it turned out, it had a raze order on it and could not be salvaged, it HAD to be torn down.

It was about a 1100 square foot single story with block foundation, and his quote was also $8,000. This includes dealing with all the materials legally, and fill/grading the hole that's left. The foundation adds up. I would think you could negotiate 5-6 though.

 

[bzinsky]

Well, the dump next door is finally mine, we closed this past Thursday. We were planning to rent the place out for a couple of years to try to recover a bit of the investment. However, after looking it over we can't, with good conscience, rent it out, it is just too nasty, has dangerous wiring and the plumbing is bad.

I am looking at options to get rid of the structure. I am considering putting a listing on CL for a free house to anyone wiling to either mover it or demolish it. The requirement would be that the lot is left clean when they are done. Has anyone done this with success?

If I end up demolishing it myself how many 30 yard dumpsters am I looking at? The house is 2 story with a foot print of about 1000 ft^2 over a partial basement.

Paying for demolition is not an option. I have already received a quote for $8,000. We already have probably $10,000 more into the house and lot than what the lot itself is worth. Dropping another $8k is just not an option.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I just finished a demo project.

8k - take it and run. You're going to spend close to that on the dumpster.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Put as much as you can into cans that our weekly pickup will take. Carpeting. Lath. Plaster. Toilets. Sinks. Our city will pick up water heater and old appliances.

I our neighborhood, junk pickers will take anything metal. Aluminum siding and gutters. Galvanized pipe. It may or may not be worth your time and effort to pull the wiring out and sell it.

Hardwood flooring is very difficult to salvage, unless someone knows a trick I don't know.

If you are going to dismantle it yourself, get a big "walk in" dumpster with a door. Spend the time to remove the roof shingles and stack them in the dumpster.

Older homes typically have 1x6 roof boards. Saving them may not be worth the effort. If you are going to scrap them, stack them neatly in the dumpster. By stacking thing inside that dumpster instead of just tossing, plus using your weekly curb service, you may only need a couple of dumpsters.

Check with the city/township/county on what you have to do with the foundation. Most places will make you remove it. Same with the septic and field, if it has one.

 

[billspit]

Deleted: already covered.

 

[38Chevy454]

Probably not going to be acceptable, but it could be nice to just implode the house (not explosives, just crash in on itself) and let it all settle into the basement. No dumpsters needed. It would sure be sad that if all that caught fire and burned up.

Then add some rock and compact it so it is not a big hole and liability. You might even end up with a decent enough area and able to concrete it over for a detached shop.

 

[finn]

I did something similar to what the O. P. is doing.

Bought the shoreline property a lot down from ours on a foreclosure auction for about what the lot was selling for at the time. I tore down a 28' X 24' section but decided the remaining 1400 SF was salvageable. I stripped the interior to the studs and replaced all the floor joists and subfloor, as well as a new furnace and wiring, and improved drainage.

I did the dump truck and skid steer route, rather than the dumpster scenario, as I am doing this part time. My truck is an F450 with an 8' dump bed. License and insurance runs around $500 / yr. from memory, and it gets around 7-9 mpg on my dump runs, and 6-7 mpg hauling fill. The transfer station is 30 miles round trip and a load runs from $7.50 (cheapest, 90% insulation) to $130 (most expensive, roofing materials) to tip. I have a stack of receipts an inch thick, probably a couple of thousand dollars worth, and I only went to the studs for most of the building. Putting the debris out with the trash is futile. You'll be at it until the next millennium.

The $8000 quote is an excellent deal. You will need permits for demolition, and asbestos remediation is a real possibility. In my case, the house was from the late sixties, so asbestos was ok. You will also have to hire help for the demo, especially since the house is so close to your residence and it is a two story. Budget a couple grand additional for that, and make sure whoever you hire has insurance. You should have liability insurance too, although you may be able to add it to your existing property if it is contiguous. In my case, the property is separated from my home by a 100' lot that is owned by someone else, so it requires a separate policy.

You cannot burn, nor can you burry the demo debris as some propose, probably because of the lead paint and toxic chemicals (plastics, etc) that will undoubtedly be there.. The inspector may want to see your transfer station receipts to prove you disposed of the debris properly.

In my case, I'll end up with a nice summer and possibly winter / snowmobiler lakefront rental, and , as stated I'm in no hurry, so it makes a little bit of sense to do the demo myself. Got a real nice "spare" 24'X32' garage out of the deal too.

Have fun!

 

[skcj213]

Well......I think I can get the job done for considerably less than $8k. I plan to salvage as much of the dimensional lumber as possible, that will reduce the dumpster cost. Any metal will be sold for scrap and a few thing will go on CL. That money will be used to offset other costs. I am in a small town in a rural area. The good thing about that is there is no license or fees to demo a building, and no inspection at any time. I will try to keep this thread updated so everyone can see the progress. However, keep the input and good ideas coming.

Someone earlier requested pictures. I just can't get home from work early enough to beat the dark. I will try to get some this weekend.

I am not sure when I will get started, most likely not until spring. But who knows, I may get tired of looking at the place before then. Regardless, it has to be gone next year to avoid paying taxes on the structure.

Thanks all for your input.

 

[mechanix311]

I have removed quite a few mobile homes back when I was running heavy equipment. If you could rent a back hoe with a clam bucket or a thumb you can remove the structure very quickly. A double wide manufactured with frame generally fits in 2-3 40 foot dumpsters. Not sure if you have experience with heavy equiptment but it will yield good results

 

[Jarhead0408]

Having the local FD burn it for training is getting rare as their are plenty of EPA restrictions to deal with. The other issue if it is in aresidential area is exposures and liabilty.

Couldn't tell from around here! I've seen the local/VFD's burn down 3 within 10 miles of me here in the last 2-3 months.

Can't figure out why either. All 3 houses looked to be in great shape.

 

[efinley]

I've sort of done both routes. We had an old homestead house burned on our ranch by the local volunteer fire dept. This was very cool to watch but as you already know you'd be crazy to do it with nearby buildings.

We also did a down to the studs remodel of our house including removing the stucco and all interior walls. I bough a 7x12 dump trailer and I can't tell you how many loads I tool to the dump, it was easily $3k in dump fees. I would strongly suggest buying a dump trailer and reselling it when done if you have a truck that can tow it. I was really torn when I laid out the money for the dump trailer, but every time I use it I'm reminded what a good purchase it was.

You can't afford to let a rented dumpster sit in your yard, life will get in the way of the demo and then you'll either stress about not making progress or waste money. Also piling up the stuff and just get a dumpster when the pile is big enough means you'll spend lots of time moving and then moving again the debris. Another thing I didn't think about is that I could drive the dump trailer around the back of the house and load it closer to where the stuff was coming from. That saved a lot of time and backache.

All that said... If you could rent an modest sized excavator with a thumb you could get rid of that thing in a hurry. However you have to realize that is exactly what the guy was going to do for $8k, all you're saving is what he makes which as someone else pointed out, isn't that much for a day or 2...

Either way, I think you made the right call, now you just need to figure out how to get rid of this thing.

 

[woodzy]

My guy is charging me $3000 for the work which includes demolish and then push the current dirt in the hole and leveling out the property. I'm paying the dumpster fees (about $400 per 40 cubic yard - hopefully only 5-6 of them). He said two days and it will be gone - the only good thing is most of the inside is empty and no appliances, furniture, or mechanical equipment. He asked if he could salvage the metals (copper, steel) and I said "have fun". It did cost me about $22,000 to purchase the house, an additional $3000 for a law suit and the cost to remove the house. I'm hoping to keep it under 35,000 and all I will end up with is 3/4 acre, 2 car detached garage, and a deep well that will be used for the new house. I did manage to see about $1400 worth of stuff on the inside / outside.

It will be an eyesore that will finally be gone.

 

[2nrguy]

I would try to keep as much wood as possible from the floors and put it in your new space.

 

[skcj213]

I've shopped around and the least expensive 30 yard dumpster is $350, no one has 40 yard.

I'm not in a hurry, just needs to be gone in calendar year 2015 to avoid paying taxes on the structure. I talked to the tax assessor personally and he told me if I get rid of the structure he will wipe it out for the entire tax year.

Salvage wise I have 2 ranges that will be sold for scrap, a refrigerator that the local utility will buy from me for $50. I have a fair number of radiators that are fairly decorative. I have been given differing opinions on the value of those. Some say they bring good money others say they are worthless. I am going to try CL first to see if I get any hits. There is an old boiler, lots of galvanized water pipe and cast iron drain pipe and a small amount of copper water pipe and the copper wiring. As previously mentioned, there is a small amount of decent woodwork and a couple of good doors that have some good old brass hardware. I may try putting the brass door hardware on ebay, it can sometimes bring a decent amount of money. I know, I have tried to buy old hardware for my house and the prices can crazy for the right pieces. Any money made from salvage will be used to pay for disposal.

Slow and steady will be the name of the game. I can gut the inside and then leave it sit for a bit. as long as the yard is maintained and the windows are not broken out I think the city will leave me alone.

 

[jimindm]

I think you are underestimating the time that it will take to tear down. While your time line seems good to you, will your neighbors want to deal with an eyesore that much longer. I have to tell you neighbors can look at some real run down properties for a long time. They will not look at a project that the neighbor took on that he was over his head in. Meaning a nuisance property is one thing, an attractive nuisance is another.

You say you want to keep the city out of it, but you live just blocks from downtown. What about disconnects of the utilities.I would think the city would be very interested how you do this, and am quite positive that the utility companies will require professionals. Likely with some kind of permit involved.

Speaking of the city they surly have some kind of process for tearing down buildings, that you would have to follow. At some point they are going to get involved. I would also think that they would be very concerned about your shop being built over any basement hole you filled in.

Sometimes your slow and steady is not the slow and steady that others expect.

I am with some of the others on here, it sounds like you bought the house with out much thought of how and what you were going to do with it.

You have not mentioned a wife or SO. I can assure you in my situation I would be getting an earful everyday that we owned it, and there were any remnants of it standing. A year of nights and weekends, trips here and there to sell salvage, getting dumpsters in and out, and many other things. I would bet that in the big picture you will not save as much as you think.

In the end for a couple of thousand dollars, I would watch as all of this was completed in a few days. I would much rather start throwing grass seed next week on the completed job. I am sure your neighbors would to.

 

[sac02]

$8k

vs.

A year of manual labor and headache


I know which I would chose, even if it didn't SEEM like I could afford the $8k at the time. Remind us (and yourself) how much your time is worth, how many hours you think DIY demo-ing a house will take. Then do the math and I bet that the $8k looks pretty good, especially when you consider that the $8k option could be over and done with, and never thought of again, maybe by the end of the week.

 

[jd_1138]

$8k

vs.

A year of manual labor and headache


I know which I would chose, even if it didn't SEEM like I could afford the $8k at the time. Remind us (and yourself) how much your time is worth, how many hours you think DIY demo-ing a house will take. Then do the math and I bet that the $8k looks pretty good, especially when you consider that the $8k option could be over and done with, and never thought of again, maybe by the end of the week.

Yep, plus I know that a lot of people don't look at it this way, but that 8k will be heading back into your local community when the guy and his workers get the money and spend it locally. Assuming, of course, it's a local demo crew that does the work. So then that money will go into the pockets of workers at the local stores/restaurants, etc..

 

[skcj213]

I know this is a big job and have an idea of what I am getting myself into. Honestly, when we bought the place we did plan on renting it for a couple of years to pay back some of the investment. However, once we were actually able to look at the place closely it was in much worse shape then we expected and we either had to spend a lot of money repairing a house that we had no intention of keeping long term or just biting the bullet and tearing it down.

We really didn't have a choice on whether to buy or not. The owner was ready to get rid of the property and one of 3 things was going to happen:

1. We could buy it.
2. Someone buys from the owner to live in. The condition of the property was such that anyone that bought it would not have the means to do any repairs and it would just get worse.
3. someone else buys with the intention of renting it out. This is the worst of the 3 options. The house is a slum and the type of tenant a slum attracts is typically not good. And the new owner likely wouldn't care what effect he is having on my property.

Believe it or not, the city does not have ordinances or processes for tearing down buildings. The only time they get involved is when a building is deemed a health hazard and is condemned. That typically only happens after someone has complained and the owner is given many opportunities to make repairs. Otherwise, you tear down the building, clean up the lot, report it to the tax assessor and move on.

Utility disconnection is easy. I called the power company and they sent a guy out the next do who cut the electric feed from the pole, rolled up the wire and left, no cost. The gas company is similar, they are sending out a crew who will disconnect the gas line from the house and cap it off, probably out by the street. Water has already been shut off at the meter and just needs to be disconnected from the house.

Before building my garage I will have to get a building permit from the county, the city doesn't require a permit. The permit for the county is really just a notification that an improvement is being made to a property so they can get the added tax dollars. No inspections are required.

I know some municipalities are nannies and homeowners have to ask for permission on everything. My hometown is not that way.

 

[ishiboo]

BTW... the guys who got the $8k quote here ended up tearing it down themselves, piece by piece. I am guessing when all is said and done, with dump fees, trailering dozens and dozens of flat trailer loads of stuff, etc... they got about $2/hr for their time.

If you have a chainsaw and a skid loader/tractor with grapple, it might be worth your time to burn whatever you can and then load the rest. But if it was me, I would keep getting quotes until I found an excavator-equipped contractor to do it.

 

[skcj213]

The way I see it, my time is free. I am not a lawyer who gets paid for the time they may be thinking about a case. I only get paid when I am at work. When I am at home I don't get paid anything. I cut my own grass, make my own house repairs, repair my own vehicles and built my own 2 car garage. If I think I can do it myself I have a hard time justifying paying someone else to do it for me. The money I save, or pay myself for doing the work, will get spent in my community just as if I paid someone local to do the work. The work doesn't pay well but I get the satisfaction of doing it myself and knowing it was done the way I want. If halfway through I decide it is too much work I can still hire someone to finish it up and a reduced cost from what the whole job would have been.

Some would call me cheap, and maybe I am. I don't mean any disrespect, it's just the way I'm wired. In the end, I put a lot of money in the bank each year doing things myself.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Any hazardous waste ?

Asbestos was used in many shingle products back in the 50s and 60s. Many homes in my area have asbestos based shingle siding. Most are now cover with vinyl siding.

Resale value of doors and radiators depends on your location. Some places it could be worth a lot. Some places it is scrap.. Door knobs and hinges can be removed and sold online.

Try posting on CL in nearby large cities or even eBay.

 

[Justanoldguy]

The way I see it, my time is free. I am not a lawyer who gets paid for the time they may be thinking about a case. I only get paid when I am at work. When I am at home I don't get paid anything. I cut my own grass, make my own house repairs, repair my own vehicles and built my own 2 car garage. If I think I can do it myself I have a hard time justifying paying someone else to do it for me. The money I save, or pay myself for doing the work, will get spent in my community just as if I paid someone local to do the work. The work doesn't pay well but I get the satisfaction of doing it myself and knowing it was done the way I want. If halfway through I decide it is too much work I can still hire someone to finish it up and a reduced cost from what the whole job would have been.

Some would call me cheap, and maybe I am. I don't mean any disrespect, it's just the way I'm wired. In the end, I put a lot of money in the bank each year doing things myself.

A man who thinks exactly like me.
Go for it and ignore those who are keen to spend your $8000.

 

[skcj213]

Any hazardous waste ?

Asbestos was used in many shingle products back in the 50s and 60s. Many homes in my area have asbestos based shingle siding. Most are now cover with vinyl siding.

Resale value of doors and radiators depends on your location. Some places it could be worth a lot. Some places it is scrap.. Door knobs and hinges can be removed and sold online.

Try posting on CL in nearby large cities or even eBay.

I don't think I have any asbestos. The siding is aluminum over wood clapboards. The flooring is all wood and I don't see any pipe insulation that may be asbestos.

 

[skcj213]

I would try to keep as much wood as possible from the floors and put it in your new space.

Not sure I want flooring in my garage that is dog, cat and raccoon urine soaked. Yep, the place absolutely wreaks of urine and, yes, one of the last tenants had a raccoon. Their daughter told my kids one day that her bedroom really stinks because the raccoon had pooped and they couldn't find it to clean it up.

 

[colt zantop]

Should get a descent chunk of change for the aluminum siding too.

 

[jimindm]

The way I see it, my time is free. I am not a lawyer who gets paid for the time they may be thinking about a case. I only get paid when I am at work. When I am at home I don't get paid anything. I cut my own grass, make my own house repairs, repair my own vehicles and built my own 2 car garage. If I think I can do it myself I have a hard time justifying paying someone else to do it for me. The money I save, or pay myself for doing the work, will get spent in my community just as if I paid someone local to do the work. The work doesn't pay well but I get the satisfaction of doing it myself and knowing it was done the way I want. If halfway through I decide it is too much work I can still hire someone to finish it up and a reduced cost from what the whole job would have been.

Some would call me cheap, and maybe I am. I don't mean any disrespect, it's just the way I'm wired. In the end, I put a lot of money in the bank each year doing things myself.

As a lawyer you certainly have to understand that your time is worth something.

I also understand that I do that I can do to save money. Some times though it is just not worth it. Can I roof my house yes, but it would take a few weeks, and the cost of paying someone to do it is just plain justified. I get the job done in a day. Same could be said about tires. Can I mount my own tires? Sure, but it is much easier to take them up the street and have done for $10.

I am not questioning your ability to want to work hard, its just that sometimes you need to look at working smarter.

You mention how easy it was to cut the utilities. I can understand the electric being cut at the pole. I would have to guess though that sewer, water, and gas would not be allowed to be shut off at the dwelling, if you explained that you are tearing it down. Further more why would you want a charged water line or gas line any where close to it. Mistakes can happen.

You also mention that you like to do stuff yourself to know that it gets done right. That statement gets made way to much on this board. You are tearing a house down. What is to making sure it is done right. Do you expect that they may forget to take a wall down?

From some of your posts I am not doubting that you could tear the house down. There is so much more to this job than just demo, and that I am not sure understand what you are getting into.

 

[skcj213]

jimindm,
Point taken.

BTW, I stated that I am NOT a lawyer. I am a sales administrator (estimator) for an automotive parts manufacturer. I get paid only when I am at work, no matter how much I think about work issues

I use the phrase "know it was done correctly" as more all encompassing of why I DIY. And there are of course exceptions, yes, I pay to have tires changed. I will also pay someone to do something that I don't think I will be able to get acceptable results. My house has flat, veneer coated ceiling that have some water damage. I don't think I can make an invisible repair so I will pay a professional to make the repair.

The gas line will be disconnected by the gas company and the meters removed, at no cost to me. From what I was told on the phone they are going to dig the line up, likely out by the road, and cap it off.

Water and sewer are provided by the city. I expect they will disconnect and cap the water line at the meter, leaving the meter (which is in the yard about 150 feet from the house) in place for possible future use. I would expect they will dig up the sewer line and cap it as well. Again, I don't think there is a cost for doing this.

I'm going to give this a shot. If I decide I am in over my head, I can hire someone to finish the job. I will try to document the journey, and costs, here for others to learn (or gloat if I end up hiring it out).

 

[mmb617]

I cut my own grass, make my own house repairs, repair my own vehicles and built my own 2 car garage. If I think I can do it myself I have a hard time justifying paying someone else to do it for me. The work doesn't pay well but I get the satisfaction of doing it myself and knowing it was done the way I want.

Some would call me cheap, and maybe I am. I don't mean any disrespect, it's just the way I'm wired. In the end, I put a lot of money in the bank each year doing things myself.

I also agree 100% with this philosophy.

Wish I could give you some helpful suggestions, but I really have nothing. People like us always find a way though. I've done lots of jobs my friends thought I was crazy for taking on. Sometimes it just takes some creative thinking.

Good Luck!

 

[Slingshot Engage]

4 pages and still no pictures! frig sak

 

[skcj213]

Sorry, it's dark when I leave in the morning and dark when I get home. Just gonna have to wait until the weekend.

 

[Mandres]

Since you don't have any permitting headaches to deal with (I live in the country too; it's hard for some folks to comprehend not having to have a permit for these things) I would spend a couple months salvaging all the hardwood from inside the structure then rent an excavator, dig a hole, and knock the structure down into the hole. Burn then backfill, done.