I'm so confused. Help me out here

[Canoe50]

This is a good point, I had a person that I met, that was an engineer for BIC, in the razor division. I remember talking with him about designs and things, and he said that, everything had already been done to razor. I kept thinking there has to be something new that could be done. He thought there was no way to improve the modern razor. This was at the time Gillette had the Mach three razor out for at least 5 years. He had given up. Well now Gillette makes a 5 blade razor, I don't know what they call it, I just buy it and use it. When I saw it, iAd to try it, because it took much coaxing by a friend to try the Mach3, way back when. After using the Mach 3 I did not want to go back. So when the new better thing came along I wanted to try it, then they added a ******** to it, and darn it, it was better too. I think of a razor as tool to shave my face. Like other tools like a good ratchet, after you use a good one, you do not want to go back to something lesser. Who is to say that, there is not another idea that could come out, and maybe someone will hire an engineer to figure out how to get the idea to work.

I'm guessing that BIC engineer graduated at the bottom of his class. Even a dummy like me could have figured out adding 2 more blades to your Gillette Mach 3 would make it better. (at least better for you)
Stay tuned for the Mach 7, they'll be adding 2 more blades at some point to make your shave even better.
Maybe I should come out of retirement & become a engineer at BIC's razor division. Or possibly the Marketing Dept.?

 

[TonyCH]

Engineering degree doesn't mean a person has even one bit of creativity in him. In fact most engineers I know have no capability to invent anything original or new but they are great at solving techincal problems given to them by other people. Its more than likely that the 3->5 blade thing was visioned in the sales and/or marketing departments long before engineers were given a job to desing the razor head. I also know couple of guys who are totally different and really amazing at inventing great stuff but these guys are rare breed among engineers.

 

[PKile]

The other related question is, if you have a smart phone why wear a watch at all?

This question has me scratching my head...I had the battery die in my watch a couple of months ago and have not replaced it yet, I do have a smart phone so I figured that would suffice. Big mistake! When I was wearing a wristwatch, it was so easy to glance at it when teaching a class or safety meeting to see how much time I had left. Now I need to drag the massive Samsung Note II out of my pocket and press the side button to check the time. How is this better or more convenient? It seems like the smart phone users have gone back in time to the days of pocket watches, which were replaced with wristwatches because of their CONVENIENCE. What gives here?
The only thing I can figure is those who make this argument never have to drag their smart phone out of their pockets because they are holding on to it all the time!

 

[TonyCH]

The cheapest places in USA to find new Snap-On tools when you are in Finland are the US main ebay site, and here at GJ classifieds.

Or if you know a student or instructor over here at a US technical school, some of these schools get a full 64% off on Snap-On, so a part that is $100 on the truck is $36 to the student.

If you are patient, finding new Snap-On tools on ebay for 50% of the truck price is very feasible, before shipping cost to Finland. Not saying you can buy any new Snap-On tool you want at that discount on any given day, but over time you can!

I rarely find Hazet or Stahlwille deals over here

Thanks. I have 3 locations where I use tools regularly and I don't like to transport tools between them so I have sets at all locations. So, lots of S-O in my boxes (for example 33 S-O ratchets according to my files). I am a business owner so my company buys tools sales tax free, if bought locally. This means 24% discount to retail price right away + whatever I can talk out of it. So, I will support my S-O guy and buy from him several times per year.

If I spot a super deal on an item I need in ebay or other online site I don't say no if I have a chance to get it. Ebay went worse though after they started forcing the ebay shipping on items and sellers are too lazy to skip it. Ebay makes profit out of the shipping and shipping cost for tools have doubled and sometimes even tripled. So, European brands are looking more and more atractive costwise. Luckily I bought bulk of my S-O tools before this happened.
----

About the OPs talk about identical metallurgy between all brands: if they are identical then why do they not perform the same? There are published destructive tests where they have seen big differences between brands, in for example combo wrenches and ratchets. And no, I won't search the articles for you. They are on this forum but you need to search for them yourself. Yes - the difference in strength is obviously not as great as the difference in price but then again does it have to be? The principle of diminishing returns is at work with tools too as everybody probably understands. Furthermore, at some businesses its not acceptable to have one breakage let alone several so they do all they can to minimize that. If the extra cost prevents work stoppages / delays or even injury to their very expensive guys then it might just be justified. And its not only huge high end companies but this also goes with one man companies, problem with tools or injury might cause major problems with scheduling, profit etc. or even banckruptcy.

 

[DanInVA]

I get it now, and I'm with op. No one can definitively prove that SO wrenches are better than GW. Here is my deal. I have a set of GW ratcheting wrenches, and they sure do turn nuts just fine. They even turn bolts! If any of you snap on fans want to trade, I'm game. I will even buy you a beer. If you have proto and want to trade, that's ok too, but you owe me a beer.[emoji6]

 

[Steinmetz]

I find it kind of sad that an engineer doesn't understand that the forging process, quality of steel used, heat treating, etc... is not the same at Gearwrench as it is at Snap-On. Sure, they may look the same and may even function the same for awhile but for how long? You get what you pay for in this life and sometimes you've got to pay to get quality.

I have no problem with you saying that the Gearwrench works fine for you and you don't want to pay 10x more for Snap-On, that's your choice. To say that you don't understand is complete BS if you ask me!!

Please state your qualifications as either a metallurgist, forging or heat treatment expert as applied to the particular product line under discussion before you make unfortunate statements like this.

So you don't have any of the foregoing qualifications? That's what I thought.

 

[HotRodKush]

Being practical all the time gets boring. A Yugo is just as practical as a Ferrari - they both will get you to where you want to go. A Ferrari, though, is so much more fun!

 

[toddoky]

Determining the value of "truck grade" tools is difficult unless you use them in the environment in which they were designed to be used, which is that of an industrial or automotive repair professional.

I was a dealership mechanic for many years and can tell you that the use frequency of tools and the number of times per day that tool box drawers get opened is far greater than what a DIY type individual will ever experience.

While it is true that folding sheet metal on a brake is the same process here or in China, the gage/amount of steel to make a tool box from different manufacturers and the complexity of the geometric shapes and the amount of gusseting varies greatly.

This explains why I can walk into a Harbor Freight, Sears or Home Depot store and rack a good portion of the tool boxes on display out of square with my bare hands and the same thing couldn't be done to my 25 year old Snap-on KR 1000 if it was hit by a truck.

The biggest Snap-on boxes are also 30" deep (or more), which better resists tipping when fully loaded with a **** load of tools that will cause drawers to sag in a budget box and have a negative effect on the operation of the drawer slides. I see a lot of photos of HF tool boxes in home use that are much more sparsely loaded with tools than what you'll typical find in a pro's box.

Beyond these functional benefits, the fit and finish of a Snap-on box is indisputably better than any Chinese box I've seen; the gaps around every drawer of my KR1000 is consistently the same and when you compare that to the fit and finish of the Chinese Homak Pro2 box I purchased last year to use at work the difference in the level of attention to detail between the two products is night and day. The biggest gripe I have about the Homak box is the ridiculous amount of force that is required to overcome the detents to open the drawers, which I curse at every time I have to get a tool out of the box.

I do own some other Chinese tools, but I can't think of a single one I get much joy out of when it's being used.

Snap-on (and other truck grade tools) are designed to permit professional users to perform a particular task expediently and efficiently are generally part of a full-range offering of tools that includes many specialty tools you just can't get a places life HF and Sears.

Tools sold at HF and Sears are/were designed first and foremost to hit a particular price point in order to attract value shoppers.

 

[Major Ramifications]

You can't see spending more on a watch because of your ethnicity. You are a logical, intelligent, practical white guy. The overpriced look-at-me brands are for other cultures.
Before all the politically correct crybabies start, this is a statement of fact and is in no way racist or nationalist. I can back it up with reams of data.

 

[Kracin]

I'm using SO as the most obvious example. My comments are not Snap-On specific. There are many others to which they also apply thus the watch analogy.

If somebody comes on here and says: I use Snap-On because I like it, it has a great feel for me and when my customers see my Snap-On toolbox it gives them a feeling of confidence in me so it's a great marketing tool. I say great!!! It's your money do what you want with it.

When somebody comes on here and makes claims of TECHNICAL SUPERIORITY that from what I can see don't exist that's what irks me. Don't try to tell me that by spending ten times as much it's ten times as good (at doing the job of turning a bolt) without hard proof. That it makes you feel good is not hard proof.

If Snap-On floats your boat, that's wonderful. Who can argue with that. But when you take this to the point of claiming they alone can leap tall buildings on a single bound, without a shred of scientific evidence to back up said claim, to me that's BS.

Don't try to justify a personal preference by citing IMMAGINARY advantages. That's all I'm saying.

Telling me that you wear a Rolex to attract gold digging hot chicks in Scottsdale works for me. I have a fake one for just that purpose, it's highly effective. Telling me that it keeps time better than my Casio, I think not.

i pay 15 dollars for a screwdriver because i can take that screwdriver, and pound it through sheetmetal, break a bolthead off with it, or pry apart a gearbox housing no problem with it.

you can buy one for 2 bucks or get a free set from hf and come try the same?

not saying there isn't a place for cheap tools and cheap watches and cheap everything. but do you really need to keep trying to instigate on preferences and application?



as far as watches go, you seem the extremely partial to your casio watch, i had one when i was 7 years old also. and sure it was a great watch, the quartz tuning crystal technology keeps near perfect time. much better than some mechanical watches.

hell i could buy that cheapo casio watch for 10 bucks from a discount store and it will keep perfect time. but it was cheap to make, cheap to build, and looks cheap as well. i could also buy burlap clothes instead of cotton, they are going to keep me warm enough alright and going to hide my skin from other people. but those two items are completely different in construction and manufacture.


why don't we stay on topic of watches then, tell me why you consider a casio watch to be superior to a decently priced mechanical watch, like say a swiss, timex, or even citizen? they aren't 5000 dollar watches like rolex are. but they are still affordable, look good, and keep great time. the essence of a watch is keeping time as we all know. without the ability to keep time it turns into a bracelet... where we can get into a whole other discussion about why women love jewelry so much when they are basically wearing rocks in different crystallization forms of different rarity.

 

[rancherbill]

The discussion is, as always, raging about quality.

Everybody should go and read the thread on a wrench test by a member in Greece. He test 9 mm(?) wrenches because of the failure rate that he was experiencing. His tests clearly showed there was a difference in wrenches. I can't remember the name of the thread.

There are so many factors in making a wrench, all the way from original steel, forming, forging, heat treating, etc that there really is a difference. If it was easy there would be three quality levels - good, better and best. The Greek guys test clearly shows the variation between manufacturers and their processes.

 

[Kracin]

let's look back here. and see what the deal is

Personally, I have all Milwaukee and all Fuel if the particular tool is made in the brushless variety. That stated HD's Ridgid line does have one hot smoking advantage and that is that they will replace the batteries free for life which is sort of hard to look the other way from. Since you have HD gift cards that's the way I'd go. I've never broken a cordless tool. The batteries always die first and the batteries always cost more than the tool. Free batteries for life is a very attractive offer.

so you buy only milwaukee tools, you do know rigid tools are cheaper with a better warranty right? lifetime. not to mention their power is close to the same as milwaukee, and why did you buy fuel? you do know that you are spending almost 50% more in price and not getting 50% more in power and run time? how are you justifying this spendy purchase when the standard is going to be just fine for your application? when have you ever hit something with that hex drive and said "man... if i had just 15 more ft/lbs of torque, i woulda finished this project"? (1400 vs 1600 hex driver ratings)



next

I have the Eastwood digital torque wrench in the 3/8" version. Mine is the angle version. Here's the story. The torque wrench part of the tool is outstanding and dead accurate. The angle part completely blows. Great torque wrench hopelessly bad torque angle wrench.

why in gods name did you spend 100 dollars on a digital eastwood torque wrench? you realize harbor freight sells a digital torque adapter for only 20 bucks? and you could add a 3/8th torque wrench for only 10 more dollars . why is this eastwood one which does the same thing as the harbor freight setup worth it to buy at 3x the price? it does the same thing and you get the same outcome? you've already mentioned in other threads how much you enjoy harbor freight tools. so how come you felt the need to spend too much on that?



again

To me Nitrocat and Aircat are the only game in town. Killer torque and much quieter than the I-R. I've got the new 1250K and it's awesome. I don't work on the railroad and anything under that these tools will tear up.

do we really need to go over why purchasing brand specific only nitrocat or aircat isn't the only option and might be the more expensive option in impact guns? why purchase these over the other many many different and cheaper impact guns available? what gold are these made out of?







we could go on and on but i know you see my point. you are making an unnecessarily annoying argument out of nothing. one which you don't even follow your own logic in.

 

[stikman56]

i pay 15 dollars for a screwdriver because i can take that screwdriver, and pound it through sheetmetal, break a bolthead off with it, or pry apart a gearbox housing no problem with it.

you can buy one for 2 bucks or get a free set from hf and come try the same?

not saying there isn't a place for cheap tools and cheap watches and cheap everything. but do you really need to keep trying to instigate on preferences and application?



as far as watches go, you seem the extremely partial to your casio watch, i had one when i was 7 years old also. and sure it was a great watch, the quartz tuning crystal technology keeps near perfect time. much better than some mechanical watches.

hell i could buy that cheapo casio watch for 10 bucks from a discount store and it will keep perfect time. but it was cheap to make, cheap to build, and looks cheap as well. i could also buy burlap clothes instead of cotton, they are going to keep me warm enough alright and going to hide my skin from other people. but those two items are completely different in construction and manufacture.


why don't we stay on topic of watches then, tell me why you consider a casio watch to be superior to a decently priced mechanical watch, like say a swiss, timex, or even citizen? they aren't 5000 dollar watches like rolex are. but they are still affordable, look good, and keep great time. the essence of a watch is keeping time as we all know. without the ability to keep time it turns into a bracelet... where we can get into a whole other discussion about why women love jewelry so much when they are basically wearing rocks in different crystallization forms of different rarity.

Sounds like someone needs a chisel and punch set..... They're cheap at HF.

 

[Herod]

let's look back here. and see what the deal is



so you buy only milwaukee tools, you do know rigid tools are cheaper with a better warranty right? lifetime. not to mention their power is close to the same as milwaukee, and why did you buy fuel? you do know that you are spending almost 50% more in price and not getting 50% more in power and run time? how are you justifying this spendy purchase when the standard is going to be just fine for your application? when have you ever hit something with that hex drive and said "man... if i had just 15 more ft/lbs of torque, i woulda finished this project"? (1400 vs 1600 hex driver ratings)



next



why in gods name did you spend 100 dollars on a digital eastwood torque wrench? you realize harbor freight sells a digital torque adapter for only 20 bucks? and you could add a 3/8th torque wrench for only 10 more dollars . why is this eastwood one which does the same thing as the harbor freight setup worth it to buy at 3x the price? it does the same thing and you get the same outcome? you've already mentioned in other threads how much you enjoy harbor freight tools. so how come you felt the need to spend too much on that?



again




do we really need to go over why purchasing brand specific only nitrocat or aircat isn't the only option and might be the more expensive option in impact guns? why purchase these over the other many many different and cheaper impact guns available? what gold are these made out of?







we could go on and on but i know you see my point. you are making an unnecessarily annoying argument out of nothing. one which you don't even follow your own logic in.

Op got TOLD.

 

[Herod]

determining the value of "truck grade" tools is difficult unless you use them in the environment in which they were designed to be used, which is that of an industrial or automotive repair professional.

I was a dealership mechanic for many years and can tell you that the use frequency of tools and the number of times per day that tool box drawers get opened is far greater than what a diy type individual will ever experience.

While it is true that folding sheet metal on a brake is the same process here or in china, the gage/amount of steel to make a tool box from different manufacturers and the complexity of the geometric shapes and the amount of gusseting varies greatly.

This explains why i can walk into a harbor freight, sears or home depot store and rack a good portion of the tool boxes on display out of square with my bare hands and the same thing couldn't be done to my 25 year old snap-on kr 1000 if it was hit by a truck.

The biggest snap-on boxes are also 30" deep (or more), which better resists tipping when fully loaded with a **** load of tools that will cause drawers to sag in a budget box and have a negative effect on the operation of the drawer slides. I see a lot of photos of hf tool boxes in home use that are much more sparsely loaded with tools than what you'll typical find in a pro's box.

Beyond these functional benefits, the fit and finish of a snap-on box is indisputably better than any chinese box i've seen; the gaps around every drawer of my kr1000 is consistently the same and when you compare that to the fit and finish of the chinese homak pro2 box i purchased last year to use at work the difference in the level of attention to detail between the two products is night and day. The biggest gripe i have about the homak box is the ridiculous amount of force that is required to overcome the detents to open the drawers, which i curse at every time i have to get a tool out of the box.

I do own some other chinese tools, but i can't think of a single one i get much joy out of when it's being used.

Snap-on (and other truck grade tools) are designed to permit professional users to perform a particular task expediently and efficiently are generally part of a full-range offering of tools that includes many specialty tools you just can't get a places life hf and sears.

Tools sold at hf and sears are/were designed first and foremost to hit a particular price point in order to attract value shoppers.

Op got told TWICE.

 

[coldh2o]

You can't see spending more on a watch because of your ethnicity. You are a logical, intelligent, practical white guy. The overpriced look-at-me brands are for other cultures.
Before all the politically correct crybabies start, this is a statement of fact and is in no way racist or nationalist. I can back it up with reams of data.

Let's see some of that data...

 

[toddoky]

I have a hunch that if the OP was offered a free top-end Snap-on box filled to the brim with Snap-on tools or a Harbor Freight box of his choice loaded with Harbor Freight tools that there would end up being a Snap-on tool box in his garage.

That would also save him the annoyance of having to strip off the US General badge to replace it with a Snap-on badge like so many folks do that purchase those boxes...what is that all about anyways?

 

[dnschmidt]

OK Kracin I'll answer your points one at a time.

1)To me a watch is an appliance. It has no other function than to tell time. I like digital watches. If it's synced to NIST is can't do much better than that. The Casio does all I need. I have nothing against anybody buying a $10,000 Rolex for whatever reason they so chose, just don't tell me it's a better WATCH as that is impossible.

2) I DO HAVE A MILWAUKEE JONES NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. Did I ever make any claim at any time that they WERE SUPERIOR to the Ridgid. I think not. THAT'S MY POINT WHICH YOU KEEP MISSING. Buy whatever you want just don't CLAIM IT'S BETTER just because you like it without demonstrable proof.

3) A torque wrench is easier is use than a torque adapter. I have two torque adapters which I use to calibrate my torque wrenches made by Powerbuilt. That's how I could make the claim that the Eastwood was dead accurate. I TESTED IT.

4) To me Aircat and Nitrocat are the only game in town as I like being able to HEAR. They make extremely powerful tools that don't kill your hearing. I'LL ALWAYS PAY MORE FOR A FEATURE. What I will not pay more for is an unverified claim of superiority.

I'm not a touchy feeley person. I base my views on hard data. I make no claim that something is better than something else unless I know that for an absolute fact. Maybe others should adopt this position.

 

[Tronyadorable]

Rolex get fine chicks.

So does 8 grand hanging loosely in your shirt pocket.

 

[stikman56]

Let's see some of that data...

I second that.

 

[TexasK5]

Why are you assuming Snap-On is the only source of high quality steel? They buy their stuff from somebody: Allegheny Technologies, Nucor, somebody. They don't make their own steel....

...When Henry Ford build Rouge River. He was completely vertically integrated he controlled everything going into the model T. NOBODY does that today. That's why your argument is senseless.

I have experience working for a manufacturer of steel castings used for ground engaging tools, and I recently spent some time at the facility of a leading hand tool manufacturer. I can say that the steel that ends up in a casting, or a casting that will later be smashed into a forging is not off the shelf stuff. I don't know about SO, but the 2 places I am familiar with have metallurgists that start with some "base" material - iron, and then add little paper bags filled with chemicals to get the chemistry that they want. In these cases, yes, they make their own steel.

 

[stikman56]

I have a hunch that if the OP was offered a free top-end Snap-on box filled to the brim with Snap-on tools or a Harbor Freight box of his choice loaded with Harbor Freight tools that there would end up being a Snap-on tool box in his garage.

That would also save him the annoyance of having to strip off the US General badge to replace it with a Snap-on badge like so many folks do that purchase those boxes...what is that all about anyways?

It's because the 44" box is so good you can almost pass it off as a Snap-On box. I think it's maybe just for a joke, or maybe it's to try to impress the people around them, I dunno. Some people care what other people think. I'm impressed with my US General boxes and don't give a damn about the rest of it, they do what they need to do and I have money left for stuff that matters to me. I have no idea why anyone would feel $5000.00 or more HAS to be spent on a metal box, so you can do your job, but to each his own. I'm doing my job with mine. If you just want to, fine, but stating it's needed, that B.S. There's better value out there in tool boxes. Snap-On isn't the best built tool box for that dollar amount. Lista has twice the load rating in their drawers. For what some people spend on that metal box, I built my '56 and my Road Runner and had some money left over. Maybe I should put Snap-On badges on them. Guy I worked with spent 13 grand on his box.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I'd sure hate to pay the bar tab for this thread...

 

[toddoky]

It's because the 44" box is so good you can almost pass it off as a Snap-On box. I think it's maybe just for a joke, or maybe it's to try to impress the people around them, I dunno. Some people care what other people think. I'm impressed with my US General boxes and don't give a damn about the rest of it, they do what they need to do and I have money left for stuff that matters to me. I have no idea why anyone would feel $5000.00 or more HAS to be spent on a metal box, so you can do your job, but to each his own. I'm doing my job with mine. If you just want to, fine, but stating it's needed, that B.S. There's better value out there in tool boxes. Snap-On isn't the best built tool box for that dollar amount. Lista has twice the load rating in their drawers. For what some people spend on that metal box, I built my '56 and my Road Runner and had some money left over. Maybe I should put Snap-On badges on them. Guy I worked with spent 13 grand on his box.

"Almost pass it off as a Snap-on Box" in which way, appearance? It certainly wouldn't be in it's storage volume or ability to store long and or bulky tools. At just under 19" deep, half of the tools I own wouldn't fit in it because that top length drawer is going to fill up real quick as shallow as it is. Lista boxes are great, but are usually even more expensive than Snap-on based on volume capacity.

Spending 13K on any box would have been outside of my budget at any stage of my professional wrench career and I waited for the right opportunity to buy my KR1000 when I did so many years ago to avoid paying anywhere near full price. It served me well and I made some good money out of it while enjoying the quality of the design of the tools I kept in it.

I'm glad the price-point driven Chinese tool box scenario meets your quality requirement, but for myself and others with similar standards it just doesn't.

You put a lot of money and effort into your 56' to make it nice, so you obviously have an appreciation for things that are built to a high level of quality and design detail, I do as well and it carries over to the tools I use as well.

To each his own in how they spend their dough.

 

[dnschmidt]

TexasK5, What you are saying is no doubt true. But taking the resulting casting to a metallurgical lab and waiting ten minutes as they put the sample through EDAX analysis in a scanning electron microscope you could be told in PPM what components make up this alloy. The idea of trade secrets in the metal trade I feel is a red herring as precise tools that can analyze whatever metal manufacturing company A is using are readily available and relatively easy to use. I'm not saying that anybody else uses the exact alloy Snap On does. All I'm saying is that if they wanted to they could. Analyze a Snap-On wrench and call up AT or Nucor and order a heat of steel. There are very few secrets left anymore in the world of metallurgy.

 

[utahdog2003]

My 3 year old Omega, which never even sees pool water, is being serviced after it took a dump. While it is away I'm using my 13 year old Seiko, which has never been serviced and was my dive watch for almost a decade. The Seiko also keeps better time.




That is all.

 

[stikman56]

"Almost pass it off as a Snap-on Box" in which way, appearance? It certainly wouldn't be in it's storage volume or ability to store long and or bulky tools. At just under 19" deep, half of the tools I own wouldn't fit in it because that top length drawer is going to fill up real quick as shallow as it is. Lista boxes are great, but are usually even more expensive than Snap-on based on volume capacity.

Spending 13K on any box would have been outside of my budget at any stage of my professional wrench career and I waited for the right opportunity to buy my KR1000 when I did so many years ago to avoid paying anywhere near full price. It served me well and I made some good money out of it while enjoying the quality of the design of the tools I kept in it.

I'm glad the price-point driven Chinese tool box scenario meets your quality requirement, but for myself and others with similar standards it just doesn't.

You put a lot of money and effort into your 56' to make it nice, so you obviously have an appreciation for things that are built to a high level of quality and design detail, I do as well and it carries over to the tools I use as well.

To each his own in how they spend their dough.

Actually from the quality standpoint. Look at the in-depth tool box review on here and you can see it all in the pictures,measurements etc. Guy at work has a Husky box, flimsy , thin, tiny slides etc. Typical of almost every box at that price point, until you get to the HF 44" box, then you see a real difference in materials used. I pretty much looked at them all before I bought mine and wasn't impressed with Husky, Kobalt, Craftsman at all. I just buy what works for what I need,that's all.
Mine is my roll cart, simply because it's durable, priced well and holds almost everything I need ( sockets, wrenches, air tools, cordless tools, screwdrivers, hammers, meters, ratchets,pry bars, scrapers,picks,grabby tools,pliers, cutters) without walking back to my 56" US General box all the time. 3/4" drive stuff that isn't used much fits in the 56" and wrenches above 1-1/4" as well. They said I was nuts when I bought it, what's nuts to me is walking back to your main box all the time because your roll cart don't have what you need in it. Drives me nuts, it's unproductive as hell. I tried a roll cart and it wasn't up to holding what I wanted so I sold it to a co-worker and bought the box. I'm just a person who stops when I figure it's enough, that's just how I do stuff. Everyone's different. We all know the people that have to have the biggest and the best. Again, to each their own, if you got money to spend and want it, then you should buy it. My tools work, if they didn't I'd throw them in the recycle container and buy others. I don't care the brand, just that it needs to perform well. Not brand loyal to much of anything I can think of, not even cars, even if I do have my preferences.
Actually I didn't put a lot of money into my '56 at all, I put a LOT of effort. Yes, I appreciate quality, in tools ,cars, homes, whatever, but again I didn't spend money where I felt it wasn't needed on the build. Guess I'm maybe a bit too practical as I was raised in that manner. The '56 is worth 4-5 times what it cost me to build it, as I did the work myself and finished it in 1994. It was worth twice the build cost back then when I had a professional appraisal done, not much considering my time, but it was a labor of love and nothing more. Wouldn't meet most peoples standards as it's not 400 horsepower with independent suspension, blah blah blah, bit I have no concern for that, I built what I could afford and also what I wanted at the time. It meets my needs. I built the bast bang for my buck.

My Wife's analogy of the mechanics that have the all one brand of tools and boxes is "their purse has to match their shoes". Maybe she's right on that, I dunno. I've always thought that a true mechanic buys what works, maybe I'm wrong again. I'm wrong a lot, just ask her.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

To each his own in how they spend their dough.

I agree.. I will let years of experience with 50-70 hour weeks in the shop help determine MY future purchases... A weekend warrior looking for a bargain tool may not see things the way I do...

We all be nuts if we all did the same.

 

[dnschmidt]

I completely agree that you can do whatever you want with your money. That's not the same as claiming superiority for something because you paid a lot for it. I own 13 SATA spray guns. SATA is higher end than Snap-On. Why do I buy SATA guns, because I like SATA guns. My nickname on Google is SATAMAN. I FEEL NO NEED TO CLAIM THAT THEY SPRAY BETTER THAN ANY OTHER SPRAY GUN. Sagola makes guns equal to SATA, Anest-Iwata make guns that spray as well as SATA. In fact Astro Pneumatic makes a cheap Taiwanese blue spray gun called the EURO that in fact AFTER TESTING I believe sprays as good as my SATA RPs. I've got $10,000 worth of SATA spray guns that I think are very well made and completely adequate for my purposes of spraying cars and furniture. If somebody asked me what gun to buy to spray their car I'd tell them to get the ASTRO. I couldn't tell the difference between the panel I sprayed Glasurit clear on and the one that I sprayed the same clear on with my SATA RP. To me they looked the same. How then could I, in good conscience, tell somebody to pay $700 for a SATA RP when one for a hundred delivered the goods. All I care about is how the paint looks on the panel. How it gets their is irrelevant to me. Opinions without facts are useless, data is invaluable.

Expensive does not equal superiority. Superior testing results equals superiority.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

 

[T45]

TexasK5, What you are saying is no doubt true. But taking the resulting casting to a metallurgical lab and waiting ten minutes as they put the sample through EDAX analysis in a scanning electron microscope you could be told in PPM what components make up this alloy. The idea of trade secrets in the metal trade I feel is a red herring as precise tools that can analyze whatever metal manufacturing company A is using are readily available and relatively easy to use. I'm not saying that anybody else uses the exact alloy Snap On does. All I'm saying is that if they wanted to they could. Analyze a Snap-On wrench and call up AT or Nucor and order a heat of steel. There are very few secrets left anymore in the world of metallurgy.

What about things like heat treatmement and rockwell hardness? I was under the impression that tool steels in particular are quite diverse in this regard.

 

[dnschmidt]

The steel manufacturers could easily supply that information. Both Nucor and AT have extensive labs. Using design of experiments software they could likely give you whatever Rockwell hardness you wanted. Measure the hardness of a SO wrench with a diamond imprint tool and dial that up on the computer. Out comes the heat treatment recipe.

 

[beatcad]

i agree. this is getting silly and a little off topic(i think).

i aint picking dnschmitt, but a watch aint an appliance.
its a tool.
it measures a set amount.
some are more accurate than others. some are more durable than others, some are fancier than others.
sorry to use the watch analogy again.
when it comes to measuring something it depends on what your making. sometimes i'll use a plastic ruler. sometimes i'll use a tape measure. sometime i'll use a SS rule.
does it have to be sarrett or mitutoyo or HF? i dunno
i know its a huge window between building a doghouse and NASA rocket.

this thread has gotten a little heavy. in the spirit of lightening things up a bit heres a joke i heard recently...

i was talking to my neighbor the other day and she said "i dont care what people think of me". i told her i think of her naked.
it turns out shes a hypocrite

yes that's a joke, but please everyone if you feel good w/ what ya got(tools) than feel good and dont make excuses.
rock on wit yo bad self

 

[JDSV]

...what else can a Snap-On tool box do that justifies it's enormous price?

I own 13 SATA spray guns...Why do I buy SATA guns, because I like SATA guns. In fact Astro Pneumatic makes a cheap Taiwanese blue spray gun called the EURO that in fact AFTER TESTING I believe sprays as good as my SATA RPs.

I feel like this thread just went full circle. I guess SATA is like Snap-on...they charge high prices because they can, and people will buy them because they can, regardless if the "insert other brand here" wrench performs just as good as Snap-on, just as the Astro performs just as good as the SATA.

You kind of answered your own original question. What does a high price brand do to justify the cost? Just like your SATA guns, apparently nothing (humor me here people), but people like them for their own reasons and they will buy them even if a cheaper equivalent is out there.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I think dnschmidt should tell us why his Toptul tools are better than the same tools that HF sells for a fraction of the price? By his logic, a HF tool gets the job done equally well, but at a much lower price, and with a better warranty. Why would anyone buy Toptul?

 

[Coolabah]

I think dnschmidt should tell us why his Toptul tools are better than the same tools that HF sells for a fraction of the price? By his logic, a HF tool gets the job done equally well, but at a much lower price, and with a better warranty. Why would anyone buy Toptul?

Hah ! I see your point. I was thinking of marrying this lady (see first photo ) , good cook, etc

but , for a little more investment ...


What ??? they can both tell me the time within a few seconds of accuracy

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Hah ! I see your point. I was thinking of marrying this lady (see first photo ) , good cook, etc

but , for a little more investment ...


What ??? they can both tell me the time within a few seconds of accuracy

Same Gal... with and without makeup....

 

[dnschmidt]

BigBlueandGoldie,

Your logic is EXACTLY why the two people that actually tried to sell TOPTUL in the United States failed and why I will never do it as a serious business. I think, well actually I sort of know, that TOPTUL makes excellent stuff. The problem is that the COO-Taiwan and the lack of "Aura" doom them to failure here. Without an American warehouse and a major marketing effort backed by big bucks they have absolutely no chance in America and never will. That, and the fact that they don't listen to suggestions, like putting 15mm and 18mm wrenches and sockets into their tools sets, because that's what we use here, could play a factor. Denny, that's me, Dennis and Scott decided they really liked TOPTUL and would like to equip their shops with an extensive collection of TOPTUL tools. I had the connections to import them for the three musketeers and did so. The extras I sell. I truly believe that their tools are equal to anybody's in the world. In the hard light of day that's not enough. I don't like the fact that brand triumphs over technology but it always has. Betamax was better than VHS, it didn't matter then, and it doesn't matter now. ******** rules the world. It took me 45 years of my life to figure that out but I've finally come to accept it.

 

[Herod]

Snap on.....yeah.....it's THAT GOOD.

 

[coldh2o]

Snap on.....yeah.....it's THAT GOOD.

Tool of choice for wife beaters...