I'm so confused. Help me out here

[Hiball]

bigblueandgoldie,

your logic is exactly why the two people that actually tried to sell toptul in the united states failed and why i will never do it as a serious business. I think, well actually i sort of know, that toptul makes excellent stuff. The problem is that the coo-taiwan and the lack of "aura" doom them to failure here. Without an american warehouse and a major marketing effort backed by big bucks they have absolutely no chance in america and never will. That, and the fact that they don't listen to suggestions, like putting 15mm and 18mm wrenches and sockets into their tools sets, because that's what we use here, could play a factor. Denny, that's me, dennis and scott decided they really liked toptul and would like to equip their shops with an extensive collection of toptul tools. I had the connections to import them for the three musketeers and did so. The extras i sell. I truly believe that their tools are equal to anybody's in the world. In the hard light of day that's not enough. I don't like the fact that brand triumphs over technology but it always has. Betamax was better than vhs, it didn't matter then, and it doesn't matter now. ******** rules the world. It took me 45 years of my life to figure that out but i've finally come to accept it.

 

[dnschmidt]

Hiball, what other rest of the story would there be?? I said what I had to say. I'm unaware of an addendum. I will however further elaborate on TOPTUL.

If TOPTUL was willing to do what TEKTON has done. Invest heavily in marketing, have customer service here in America, have reps monitor Amazon and bulletin boards putting out fires and building good will they could pull it off as their product is SUPERIOR to ninety percent of the tools available and equal (this is my opinion of course) to any of them. Their technology is great. The quality of the steel used in their tools and the feel and finish of their tools are as good as anybody's. No, I'll change that. The finish on their tools is better than anybody's since finishing is ROTAR's main business.

TEKTON was unheard of five years ago. With the right products (that would be socket sets that contain ALL the sockets) and the right customer service they have become a player.

Dealing with TOPTUL I can absolutely guarantee you that this is never going to happen. If they come, and I have no idea as to if they ever will, they will come weakly, tentatively, and in the USofA if you want to succeed you either come hard or go home. This is all my opinion but I truly believe it based on experience.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Hiball, what other rest of the story would there be?? I said what I had to say. I'm unaware of an addendum. I will however further elaborate on TOPTUL.

If TOPTUL was willing to do what TEKTON has done. Invest heavily in marketing, have customer service here in America, have reps monitor Amazon and bulletin boards putting out fires and building good will they could pull it off as their product is SUPERIOR to ninety percent of the tools available and equal (this is my opinion of course) to any of them. Their technology is great. The quality of the steel used in the tools and the feel and finish on their tools are as good as anybody. No, I'll change that. The finish on their tools are better than anybody's since finishing is ROTAR's main business.

TEKTON was unheard of five years ago. With the right products (that would be socket sets that contain ALL the sockets) and the right customer service they have become a player

Dealing with TOPTUL I can absolutely guarantee you that this is never going to happen. If they come, and I have no idea as to if they ever will, they will come weakly, tentatively, and in the USofA if you want to succeed you either come hard or go home. This is all my opinion but I truly believe it based on experience.

Seems like a lot of opinions and not facts; I thought you were all about facts? I still never got an answer as to why your Toptul tools are worth a premium over Harbor Freight?

I'm so confused. Help me out here........

 

[BDT/NWMN]

So we have these Snap-On wrench arguments and tool box arguments. If another lesser wrench tightens and loosens every bolt to which it is applied to perfection without failure what can a Snap-On wrench at ten times the price do that this other wrench can't. The toolbox argument about the Kirkland toolbox I saw at COSTCO is another perfect example. If it looks nice, holds tools, the drawers slide properly and it rolls around what else can a Snap-On tool box do that justifies it's enormous price?

I'm an engineer so I'm literal. Something either works or it doesn't. I don't care what brand it is. Am I alone on this island?

Argument, Argument, Argument... three times in that paragraph... BDT not like arguments... BDT like intelligent discussions with facts, findings and experience related to the TOPIC. BDT own Snap-On and Harbor Freight offerings.. BDT had good AND bad experiences with both.... BDT has own **** list and git list.. BDT not brainwashed brand loyalist NOR basher.. BDT buys what fit needs, wants, and budget.. BDT don't agree with everyone on everything,, and don't expect everyone to agree with BDT... BDT will only speak for BDT.. BDT would be confused, just like You are, if BDT tried to align everyone's rationalization with BDT's.... We would all be nuts if that happened..

 

[wornoutoldman]

Argument, Argument, Argument... three times in that paragraph... BDT not like arguments... BDT like intelligent discussions with facts, findings and experience related to the TOPIC. BDT own Snap-On and Harbor Freight offerings.. BDT had good AND bad experiences with both.... BDT has own **** list and git list.. BDT not brainwashed brand loyalist NOR basher.. BDT buys what fit needs, wants, and budget.. BDT don't agree with everyone on everything,, and don't expect everyone to agree with BDT... BDT will only speak for BDT.. BDT would be confused, just like You are, if BDT tried to align everyone's rationalization with BDT's.... We would all be nuts if that happened..

Best GJ signature ever.

 

[dnschmidt]

Fit, finish and quality of metal. There are certain HF tools that are very good. I think their ratchet handles and sockets are fine but their sockets are thicker, that's not an opinion that you can measure with a caliper, than TOPTUL'S and their impact sockets are MUCH thicker than TOPTUL's. For this you can use a ruler. TOPTUL wrenches are world class by any standard far exceeding any DIN or ANSI standard and that's why they deserve a premium. Happy now.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Fit, finish and quality of metal. There are certain HF tools that are very good. I think their ratchet handles and sockets are fine but their sockets are thicker, that's not an opinion that you can measure with a caliper, than TOPTUL'S and their impact sockets are MUCH thicker than TOPTUL's. For this you can use a ruler. TOPTUL wrenches are world class by any standard far exceeding any DIN or ANSI standard and that's why they deserve a premium. Happy now.

Where are the facts?

So when it comes to Toptul, fit and finish are worth paying extra for, but when it comes to watches and tool boxes it's not?

What facts do you have supporting your assertion that Toptul uses a higher quality of metal than HF?

 

[dnschmidt]

Harbor Frieght's impact sockets use CrV as does TEKTON by the way. TOPTUL'S use CrMo. For an impact application CrV is too hard and inflexible, this is why chrome sockets should not be used on impact wrenches and why they split when they are. HF makes up for this deficiency by making them thicker. All high end impact sockets are made from Chrome Moly. TOPTUL'S are made from Chrome Moly.

 

[Hiball]

Harbor Frieght's impact sockets use CrV as does TEKTON by the way. TOPTUL'S use CrMo. For an impact application CrV is too hard and inflexible, this is why chrome sockets should not be used on impact wrenches and why they split when they are. HF makes up for this deficiency by making them thicker. All high end impact sockets are made from Chrome Moly. TOPTUL'S are made from Chrome Moly.

Lots of manufacturers sell impact sockets in both moly and vanadium, it's definitely not a indication of quality, more so application IMO as Moly sockets generally carry more wall thickness, HF also sells moly impact sockets, or did because I own some.

Next?

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Harbor Frieght's impact sockets use CrV as does TEKTON by the way. TOPTUL'S use CrMo. For an impact application CrV is too hard and inflexible, this is why chrome sockets should not be used on impact wrenches and why they split when they are. HF makes up for this deficiency by making them thicker. All high end impact sockets are made from Chrome Moly. TOPTUL'S are made from Chrome Moly.

So why do Toptuls impact sockets cost more than Sunex? They are CrMo and have an easy warranty process, which is added value to a consumer.

How about their combination wrenches? What is the metallurgy specifications behind those that make them better than HF?

You never did answer the part about why it's ok in your mind to pay more for fit and finish on Toptul products than watches or tool boxes?

 

[dnschmidt]

If they have them I've not seen them. Doesn't mean the never did or never will I'm just unaware of any CrMo impact sockets from HF.

 

[dnschmidt]

There must be some point to your questions. What is it?

My focus, and apparently this has been completely lost on the others contributing, has been on HOW MUCH BETTER CAN IT BE OR GET. I've stated time after time that what others spend their money on, or what I spend my money on, e. g. SATA spray guns, is irrelevant.

My point is, and has been, that once a watch keeps perfect time for $35 don't try to tell me that your ROLEX is a better watch. It is a better piece of jewelry, it's a far better chick magnet, but it can't be a better watch. Perfection is impossible to improve upon by definition.

I believe we have reached the point of VERY diminishing returns with respect to most tools. If you want to spend 10x for Snap-On be my guest. Just don't lord it over me by telling me it's amazingly better than TOPTUL, or any other respected brand without being able to back that up with data. If it gives you happiness to own and gets you off when you finger it good for you. MY OBJECTION IS CLAIMS OF SUPERIORITY WITH RESPECT to turning a bolt which is the point of a wrench.

I always state it's my opinion when it's my opinion. When I state something as a fact it's because I've tested it and I state it as a fact. I think this is good policy, maybe others should consider it.

 

[stealthmagic27]

Anyways, back to watches....I'm "into" watches and clocks and always have been, so is my dad, and so was my grandfather who used to repair them for a living. I have 8 watches, they all tell time. They range from 40 dollars to 600 dollars. If you can appreciate the mechanics and how they're built I think they usually mean a lot more to a person, especially if they've been in the family and have history. There are many other watches I'd rather own before even considering a Rolex, IF I had the money (like an authentic Panerai from the 1950's). This is the same with tools, Id LOVE to spend on Snap on "IF I had the money," they're great quality tools we all know that, you cant deny that. Tools don't tell time...until they're rusty and scratched up and have some history to them. They all get the damn job done one way or another.

 

[Sal Bandini]

If they have them I've not seen them. Doesn't mean the never did or never will I'm just unaware of any CrMo impact sockets from HF.

Pittsburgh Pro are CrMo

http://www.harborfreight.com/10-pc-12-in-drive-metric-impact-deep-wall-socket-set-67915.html

Standard Pittsburgh are CrV

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-pc-12-in-drive-metric-impact-deep-wall-socket-set-67904.html

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

If another lesser wrench tightens and loosens every bolt to which it is applied to perfection without failure what can a Snap-On wrench at ten times the price do that this other wrench can't.
...................
I'm an engineer so I'm literal. Something either works or it doesn't. I don't care what brand it is. Am I alone on this island?

So if a HF wrench tightens and looses every bolt to perfection at half the price of Toptul, what does a Toptul wrench do at double the price?

I understand what innovation is what I don't understand is why one piece of forged metal is considered different than what amounts to an identical piece of forged metal made by the identical metallurgical process. What has changed in the making of a wrench or a toolbox in 50 years?

Ok, so HF wrenches are just as good as Toptul at half the price since they are both forged in the same metallurgical process?

Almost without question, this is no longer true. They buy their production tools from tool makers (likely German) who will sell them the tool with a guaranteed process to Snap-on, TOPTUL, Ko-Ken and anybody else with the money to buy them. Heat treating steel was once no doubt a tightly kept trade secret, these days a simple search on the Internet will provide you with excellent formulas for the heat treatment of steel. What was once a competitive advantage is now public domain. Information is everywhere. Do you think Snap-On knows more about heat treating steel than TOPTUL and many others. The clear answer to that is not anymore.

Further reasoning why we shouldn't pay a premium price for Toptul.

In the tool game everybody is at this late point in time are almost certainly using the same tools (very likely made in Germany) to make the same products. This is the key difference. Bending up a tool box uses the same level of technology no matter where or who bends it up. SO WHY PAY MORE THAN YOU HAVE TO?

An I-phone can do more than my LG flipper. It should cost more. This differentiation no longer applies to most tools.

I think you nailed it.......we shouldn't pay a premium for Toptul.

I believe hand tools are very close to also running out of HEADSPACE. The technology of forging with respect to wrenches and the bending of sheet metal with respect to tool boxes has little changed in many, many years.

My argument has NOTHING to do with price, it has to do with differentiation. Why should I pay more for zero improvement in performance. I don't understand why SO cost 10X of brand X when brand X should be able to produce the identical product since brand X has access to the identical technology. In short what does SO offer that Gearwrench doesn't. Can somebody tell me, actually I would prefer PROVE TO ME what a 13mm SO combination wrench does better than a 13mm Gearwrench?
..........................

Bottom line: a wrench is a hell of a lot less important in fixing my car than a scan tool is on a computer controlled car. That's where you should spend your money if you have a limited supply of it.

Once again, you hit the nail on the head! What does Toptul do that HF doesn't? Why pay more for zero improvement? I would prefer for you to PROVE TO US what a Toptul 13mm combination wrench does better than a 13mm HF wrench?

They don't make their own steel. How can you make the statement that their steel is better than anybody else's. Do you know this for a FACT. That's nonsense, they have no corner on whatever steel they use. YOU ARE INVENTING non-existent advantages for them.

.............That's why your argument is senseless.

So how do you make the claim that Toptul uses better steel than HF? Do you know this for a FACT? I feel like YOU ARE INVENTING non-existent advantages for Toptul.

And the irony of your last sentence in this post is priceless!

When somebody comes on here and makes claims of TECHNICAL SUPERIORITY that from what I can see don't exist that's what irks me. Don't try to tell me that by spending ten times as much it's ten times as good (at doing the job of turning a bolt) without hard proof. That it makes you feel good is not hard proof. ............................

Don't try to justify a personal preference by citing IMMAGINARY advantages. That's all I'm saying.

I agree with you 100%! Share some facts with us! Why is Toptul worth 2x the price?

I'm not a touchy feeley person. I base my views on hard data. I make no claim that something is better than something else unless I know that for an absolute fact. Maybe others should adopt this position.

The irony in your posts makes me believe you are just screwing with us! I love it!

Opinions without facts are useless, data is invaluable.

AMEN BROTHER!

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I always state it's my opinion when it's my opinion. When I state something as a fact it's because I've tested it and I state it as a fact. I think this is good policy, maybe others should consider it.

Here we go again.......

Quit reposting the same babble and start posting all of these facts you talk about!

 

[Aaron10647]

1)To me a watch is an appliance. It has no other function than to tell time. I like digital watches. If it's synced to NIST is can't do much better than that. The Casio does all I need. I have nothing against anybody buying a $10,000 Rolex for whatever reason they so chose, just don't tell me it's a better WATCH as that is impossible.

To keep this logical and on topic. Your statement here outlines the difference between OPINIONS by defining the criteria that you are judging by and excluding the criteria in which others are comparing. You’re trolling and looking for a digital answer where one does not exist.

You are absolutely correct that your digital watch will keep virtually perfect time compared to an imperfect mechanical timepiece (brands omitted because they don’t matter). But for the same reasons you define for making the BEST watch (assuming that statement is accurate because you state it can’t be improved on for timekeeping). I personally disagree on what I consider the best. The fact that you will have to replace the watch battery or that it is disposable for me detracts from it being perfect. Yes, you can buy enough of those digital watches to last multiple lifetimes for the cost of the luxury mechanical watch. But it’s still disposable, thus (FOR ME) it cannot possibly be the best. I keep a timex in my gym bag which has more features than all other timepieces I own, do I consider it my best watch? Absolutely not. Its only advantage (to me) is that I don’t care if it gets stolen. There is no such thing as a best anything between people.

{{Trolling statment to prove point, not belief}} Smaller breasts are better than large breasts. Functionally they are identical and it’s well proven that large breasts are more likely to cause health issues than smaller breasts (back issues, additional fatty tissue also increases cancer risks specifically). Thus, based on MY criteria I defined, you cannot convince me otherwise. I’m sure we all agree right? I dont understand how we all cant agree on this, the fact I provided is proof that larger volume breasts are bad and you should suggest to your significant other to get a reduction tonight. {{End trolling statement}}

1 post closer to being allowed back in the EE!

 

[dnschmidt]

I'm NOT TRYING to justify TOPTUL's 2X price. Pay it if you like it, leave it if you don't. Did I ever state that they were "magical" in some way. There is no conflict here with what I've already stated. I agree that HF does the job. Where did I state that it didn't. When specifically asked by you I did point out some demonstrable advantages that I felt TOPTUL has over some HF products, but, did I ever denigrate HF as the SO boys do here on a daily basis. Where did I ever knock HF on performance. I've never done that. I openly admitted to Wild Cowboy that HF's new flex head ratchets I like better than TOPTUL's. You are accusing me of something I've never done.

Obviously, myself and two friends decided to invest five digits into TOPTUL tools for our personal use. We clearly like them. Did I EVER denigrate other brands. Did I call them garbage as others have in defending their high end choices. NEVER. Buy what you like and be happy with it. Why do so many people here feel the need to dump on the other guy when you have nothing but your own bias to back up what you say?

Snap-On's the best, Mac's the best, Matco's the best, Cornwell's the best. It's a wrench not a dragster where you have your E. T. slip to prove who's the best. Have I ever stated that TOPTUL's the best without stating up front that that's my opinion. NEVER.

What really is your problem?

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I'm NOT TRYING to justify TOPTUL's 2X price. Pay it if you like it, leave it if you don't. Did I ever state that they were "magical" in some way. There is no conflict here with what I've already stated. I agree that HF does the job. Where did I state that it didn't. When specifically asked by you I did point out some demonstrable advantages that I felt TOPTIL has over some HF products, but, did I ever denigrate HF as the SO boys do here on a daily basis. Where did I ever knock HF on performance. I've never done that. I openly admitted to Wild Cowboy that HF's new flex head ratchets I like better than TOPTUL's. You are accusing me of something I've never done.

Obviously, myself and two friends decided to invest five digits into TOPTUL tools for our personal use. We clearly like them. Did I EVER denigrate other brands. Did I call them garbage as others have in defending their high end choices. NEVER. Buy what you like and be happy with it. Why do so many people here feel the need to dump on the other guy when you have nothing but your own bias to back up what you say?

Snap-On's the best, Mac's the best, Matco's the best, Cornwell's the best. It's a wrench not a dragster where you have your E. T. slip to prove who's the best. Have I ever stated that TOPTUL's the best without stating up front that that's my opinion. NEVER.

What really is your problem?

What's my problem? I'm not the one starting threads about why people chose to spend their money on expensive tools and tool boxes. Every chance you get you take the liberty of mentioning Snap On........hell, you even posted up letting us know that you invested in Snap On stock and told us how overpriced it is one post!

 

[Herod]

I'm NOT TRYING to justify TOPTUL's 2X price.

Snap-On's the best, Mac's the best, Matco's the best, Cornwell's the best.

What really is your problem?

Smartest thing op has said so far.

 

[Kracin]

OK Kracin I'll answer your points one at a time.

1)To me a watch is an appliance. It has no other function than to tell time. I like digital watches. If it's synced to NIST is can't do much better than that. The Casio does all I need. I have nothing against anybody buying a $10,000 Rolex for whatever reason they so chose, just don't tell me it's a better WATCH as that is impossible.

2) I DO HAVE A MILWAUKEE JONES NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. Did I ever make any claim at any time that they WERE SUPERIOR to the Ridgid. I think not. THAT'S MY POINT WHICH YOU KEEP MISSING. Buy whatever you want just don't CLAIM IT'S BETTER just because you like it without demonstrable proof.

3) A torque wrench is easier is use than a torque adapter. I have two torque adapters which I use to calibrate my torque wrenches made by Powerbuilt. That's how I could make the claim that the Eastwood was dead accurate. I TESTED IT.

4) To me Aircat and Nitrocat are the only game in town as I like being able to HEAR. They make extremely powerful tools that don't kill your hearing. I'LL ALWAYS PAY MORE FOR A FEATURE. What I will not pay more for is an unverified claim of superiority.

I'm not a touchy feeley person. I base my views on hard data. I make no claim that something is better than something else unless I know that for an absolute fact. Maybe others should adopt this position.

for an engineer you sure put the J Genius.

if you cant see past your own flawed answers, then maybe you should just run for president. we could use another one that doesn't remember the things he said 5 minutes ago.

 

[sberry]

These are the best threads. Something I think is true is the headroom is closing for reasons already described the main one is today it doesn't cost much more to make good than junk and sometimes it cost more. There was a time I woudnt have believed it either but now we see the same product in different packaging with several different price points.
It used to be a huge quality and price difference in an adjustable, junk 3$ from India and now can find a well finished one at a flea for 5, kind of makes the cheaper one obsolete. Back then junk 3, good 25, now good 5 and brand 35.
This started to come to light when I really started looking. I was a super for a co and one day I buy a Proto for one of the trucks, the guy said,,, great,, but you could have got me a 10$ one too, I just needed a wrench. Back then all the import wasn't as good, NAPA was just carrying the new lines, now 25 yrs later they are still holding up and my ATD's no brand are actually my tool of choice vs the Proto or Diamond. Its hard to improve on something so basic but they did it.

 

[BFHtime]

Now I see the point of this thread. This thread makes me not want to buy Toptul. Although I would give it a chance, on its own merit, as long as it did not come from this guy.

I hope a moderator locks this thread, and puts in an archive. Maybe use it as an example of what not to do. Maybe put a link to this thread in the newbie section saying don't do this with a thread.

 

[BFHtime]

My rolex is better because it has a better resale value. My second fastest et car is better than the fastest et car, because my car is more consistent, where the fastest et car breaks often.

When something is better, it can be better for a particular reason, but that same reason can be a disadvantage in another situation. I call this common sense.

 

[Beemer533]

So does 8 grand hanging loosely in your shirt pocket.

But can that stack of hundreds tell you the time as accurately, hmm? I think not...

I must be really bored, I cannot believe I read this entire thread..

 

[jordan.campbell.3133719]

Now days my phone tells me the time so I don't bother with a watch, however I've been turning wrenches for a good few years. I live about as far east as you can get in Canada with out going to Newfoundland. ( Cape Breton ) . Being surrounded by salt water and having the roads constantly salted all winter u can assume without seeing that cars, trucks , and bikes of all kind here rot out bad and fast if not looked after. I have a bucket in my garage with small bits of scrap metal that has lots of broken sockets and wrenches in it. When nuts and bolts start to seize together and torque is required all of a sudden those bargain basement tools are no good and will be breaking off In your left and right, and usually this leads to busted knuckles at best, had to take my old man the er to get an artery stitched up after a poor quality wrench broke once. Also just because something has a life time warranty doesn't make it any better, by the time u return a broken socket or wrench a few times u stat to realize many ya should have spent the extra $$$ and got some quality to begin with. Gas sure is not cheap. Get some good quality tools like Jet , Proto, or Grey....hell even Westward, I love westward stuff, and you'll not need to leave the job so often to replace broken junk.

 

[jordan.campbell.3133719]

These are the best threads. Something I think is true is the headroom is closing for reasons already described the main one is today it doesn't cost much more to make good than junk and sometimes it cost more. There was a time I woudnt have believed it either but now we see the same product in different packaging with several different price points.
It used to be a huge quality and price difference in an adjustable, junk 3$ from India and now can find a well finished one at a flea for 5, kind of makes the cheaper one obsolete. Back then junk 3, good 25, now good 5 and brand 35.
This started to come to light when I really started looking. I was a super for a co and one day I buy a Proto for one of the trucks, the guy said,,, great,, but you could have got me a 10$ one too, I just needed a wrench. Back then all the import wasn't as good, NAPA was just carrying the new lines, now 25 yrs later they are still holding up and my ATD's no brand are actually my tool of choice vs the Proto or Diamond. Its hard to improve on something so basic but they did it.

Still cheep my Proto 12 or so inch adjustable was $62 new. Awesome tolerances with no wiggle and this is still the case after years of abuse some times with my 4 lb hammer

 

[Kracin]

Now days my phone tells me the time so I don't bother with a watch, however I've been turning wrenches for a good few years. I live about as far east as you can get in Canada with out going to Newfoundland. ( Cape Breton ) . Being surrounded by salt water and having the roads constantly salted all winter u can assume without seeing that cars, trucks , and bikes of all kind here rot out bad and fast if not looked after. I have a bucket in my garage with small bits of scrap metal that has lots of broken sockets and wrenches in it. When nuts and bolts start to seize together and torque is required all of a sudden those bargain basement tools are no good and will be breaking off In your left and right, and usually this leads to busted knuckles at best, had to take my old man the er to get an artery stitched up after a poor quality wrench broke once. Also just because something has a life time warranty doesn't make it any better, by the time u return a broken socket or wrench a few times u stat to realize many ya should have spent the extra $$$ and got some quality to begin with. Gas sure is not cheap. Get some good quality tools like Jet , Proto, or Grey....hell even Westward, I love westward stuff, and you'll not need to leave the job so often to replace broken junk.

westward makes some cheap junk man... lol..

cable cumalongs that seize up after two weeks of use. easy outs that lose bite after two bolts.

hell even the large shield welding helmet a co-worker got as a repalcement, westward, was 380 bucks and the damn thing just stopped working after 2 hours worth of welding. the replacement helmet didn't work right out of the box.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

westward makes some cheap junk man... lol..

cable cumalongs that seize up after two weeks of use. easy outs that lose bite after two bolts.


My experience with Much of the bargain basement stuff..... It is made to sell for a bargain basement price... I seek better quality for frequently used stuff... Try to strike a balance between overspending and insufficient quality. Everyone on this forum will have a different balance point on something...

The cheap **** can be used in the bottom drawer of a seldom used roller cabinet.. It makes a good counterweight for stability. Not much reason to open that drawer,, unless to add more less than adequate tools. Yes,, I actually do this

 

[Kracin]

westward makes some cheap junk man... lol..

cable cumalongs that seize up after two weeks of use. easy outs that lose bite after two bolts.


My experience with Much of the bargain basement stuff..... It is made to sell for a bargain basement price... I seek better quality for frequently used stuff... Try to strike a balance between overspending and insufficient quality. Everyone on this forum will have a different balance point on something...

The cheap **** can be used in the bottom drawer of a seldom used roller cabinet.. It makes a good counterweight for stability. Not much reason to open that drawer,, unless to add more less than adequate tools. Yes,, I actually do this

Hah, my metabo and milwaukee grinders go in the bottom drawer, the junk goes in the new guys box!

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Hah, my metabo and milwaukee grinders go in the bottom drawer, the junk goes in the new guys box!

Please send that new guy over with a couple 5 gallon buckets

 

[sberry]

Still cheep my Proto 12 or so inch adjustable was $62 new. Awesome tolerances with no wiggle and this is still the case after years of abuse some times with my 4 lb hammer

I have Proto also, Diamond and almost everyone that ever made one. There is nothing wrong with them but I like the China ATD better. If I got one wrench to take its that one.

 

[-Hey_Now-]

10 Pages = headache

 

[bczygan]

Would someone please send me a Rolex.

I would happily send them a Casio.......any Casio.

 

[geojag]

I can break any watch known to man.