My Mr Heater Big Max Install

[SuperD]

I am moving forward to install a 50,000 BTU Mr heater in my 26 X 26 Shop.

I have a few questions regarding code, but will post as I go along. I will follow the install procedure and code as per the owner's manual, but still have some questions. I will go with Cat 3 horizontal venting since it is way too long run the vertical with the B type vent since I have a 12/12 pitch roof and the loft above the shop. I know cat 3 is pricey, but I will only require a 36" to 48" length to go straight out the wall. I will convert it to propane with the kit that came with it from Princess Auto. My contractor will allow me to do most of the install, he will then connect the final gas connection and set the pressure regulator.

So my first couple of questions:

1. The 18 inch rear clearance on the heater, it that measured from the heater or the back of the electric fan and cage?

2. 1/2 inch black pipe, large enough for the 50,000 Btu? Total run length from tank to heater is about 12 feet with 3 of the 90* bends.

3. The exhaust will vent out the wall and I have soffiting on the 12" overhang. Does the vent have to extend out past the soffit or just 12 inches past the wall?

4. Suggestion where to purchase the 3 to 4 inch transition and Cat 3 vent pipe and exhaust vent online or Home depot and brand name? I might just purchase all from the contractor since i don't like bringing the steak to the restaurant if his prices are fair.

Thank for the help and suggestions!

 

[Rigpig]

I just picked up an 80K Mr.Heater from PA also, came with the propane conversion in the box with a t-stat. I also got the horizontal vent kit from PA.
I'm having a plumber with a gas ticket to come in and oversee things and make the final connections for me also and i'll be running if from a tank behind the shop.
From what i understand, the vent needs to go 12" past the soffit so as to not pull exhausting gasses into the building.
Sorry i'm not much help, but i should know more next week when my install starts.
Looking forward to seeing your install.
Cheers!

 

[SuperD]

Thanks Rigpig for the reply.

Please let me know what you find out about the venting requirements past the eve, really appreciate this. I looked at the PA horizontal kit, just figured there are a lot of vent pieces that I will not require though.

 

[Builderrhys]

Putting one in on Monday (well starting, it takes me awhile but I get there). Horizontal vent............... We will compare notes as I blunder my way through B149.1-10. I will try and take pic's.

 

[SuperD]

I look forward to seeing posts that deal with the vent, and B149.1. Anyone have a link to the current Propane requirements of B149.1 would be great, thanks.

 

[FunkyfullWidth]

It seems crazy. I got my heater delivered last week. And here it is november, and 75 degrees. I'll get around to installing mine soon enough! Eager to see how some of you guys hang and vent your units.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

It seems crazy. I got my heater delivered last week. And here it is november, and 75 degrees. I'll get around to installing mine soon enough! Eager to see how some of you guys hang and vent your units.

I was thinking the same thing last night as I was out working in my garage! Got mine hooked up last week. Propane company is coming a week from today to install my tank.

 

[diy96]

Your clearances to combustibles are usually measured from the nearest point to the combustible. E.g. 18" from the fan housing not the unit heater. Your manual should specify this..

Gas line size is determined by the gas load based on the appliances being feed. If this is a dedicated line you should be fine. Best to verify with a licensed gas fitter. I just installed a SRP tube heater and had to go to a 3/4" line based on the gas load.

Vent clearances will be dictated by your local code. Vented or unvented soffit will come into play here. If your soffit is vented it will need to extend past the overhang usually by a minimum of 2". You do not want any condensate or flue gases entering your attic space through the soffit. Ice may also build up on the building structure as well. Might be a good idea to block off your soffit if vented for a distance of 5-6' on either side of the vent. You can purchase white/brown flat tin that can be cut to size and slid under the j mould and fascia. Also, vent termination must also follow code as to location of wi does, doors and fresh air intakes to the building.

Good luck! Hope all goes well with the install.

 

[SuperD]

Anyone have the part number for the 3 inch ( Outlet Size on the 50,000 BTU Mr Heater ) that transitions to the 4 inch category III horizontal vent, Duravent, or Z vent brand part number?
I have gone to both website catalogs but it's a bit confusing.

Thanks.

 

[Builderrhys]

Okay, got started today. I had someone over to advise me on the install (friend of a coworker, nice retired HVAC guy Ken, I am new to the area so no contacts, etc...). The plan is for me to make the complete install and have it tested, fired up and certified by Ken. First thing to mention is that Ken noted that the 50,000 BTU Mr. Heater is too big for my 24' X 24' attached garage. 25,000 to 30,000 would have been better. I got a start on the 1/2" sch 40 black pipe and gas line tonight and cut the Unistrut for ceiling mount. I will be mounting in the corner by the pictured outside entry door. I will explain as I place things upon Ken's explanation of B149.1 and manufacturer's best pratices. Rhys.

 

[SuperD]

Is the horizontal kit that came with the furnace single wall or double wall category III pipe? Can you take a photo of the 3 inch to 4 inch transition and post, thanks.

 

[Builderrhys]

I am going to place the heater first and then figure out all the required venting pieces. It took us a while to figure out a spot as I had to vent out three feet from the door opening and run a minimum of three feet out of the unit as per manufacturer. I will get you all the specs and part numbers as I get them. The HVAC guy is going to get all of those for me. I am probably a week out from that. It looks like two 90 degree elbows, two three foot straight runs, 3 X 4 transition, thimble to go through wall and outside cap (yes, I have to go past my soffit as it is vented and not too far out as to put condensate on the walkway for ice issues). Rhys.

 

[Builderrhys]

Not much tonight. Managed to get it mounted to the ceiling. No problem by yourself with the ratchet straps. I am 7' 6" from the floor to the bottom of the unit (not the 8' as required in B149.1). Also, I have 2" of clearance between the top of the unit and the ceiling with the Unistrut mount(Mr. Heater manual calls for 1" clearance minimum). Rhys..

 

[SuperD]

Lookin great!
How many of these did Princess Auto sell this month on sale!

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Is your heater aimed straight down your garage parallel to the longest wall? Just curious, as most will install on an angle pointed somewhere towards the center point of the space.

 

[Builderrhys]

Yes, it is parallel to the wall. I wanted to place the heater on a 45 to the centre of the garage but then the vent becomes a problem. If you vent on the vertical it is no issue but on the horizontal it introduces more angles to get out the wall. If any one has pictures of mounting it towards the centre and their venting routes, it would be great to see some pictures.
I am just finishing off the gas piping and am pondering the drip leg. The manual mentions to place it off the vertical runs but I was planning on placing it off of the horizontal. Any issues with this? Rhys.

 

[Slowgsr]

Either way is fine. Hvac company put up 4 temp heaters at a warehouse last year, since I pay attention to most things I notice the drip legs on 2 heaters side by side had one on the vertical and one on the horizonal due to height difference of the main gas line. I actually noticed this today while running power to the new rooftop permanent heater which is in the same area. Largest heater I've personally seen - 3 million btu.

I love unistrut.

Nice to see more locals on here who do DIY stuff that isn't hacked.

 

[Builderrhys]

Well, gas line run, T-stat run and just finishing up the receptacle for power. Just need the vent run. HVAC guy where are you?????????????? Hopefully I can hook up with Ken next week and get this thing finished off. Rhys.

 

[dfiler2]

You should have a shutoff valve before the drip tube, at least you need one in the US. Will this be inspected?

Found this in the Canadian code, I wonder if you still need a valve when not using flex line.

CAN/CSA-B149
6.20.5 Flexible metallic hose (a) may be used to connect an appliance in commercial, industrial, or process applications where vibration, expansion, contraction, or other circumstances of an appliance installation warrant its use; (b) shall not be used in a concealed location; (c) shall neither extend from one room to another nor pass through any wall, partition, ceiling, or floor; and (d) when used to connect an appliance to rigid supply piping, shall have a shut-off valve in the piping immediately upstream of the flexible metallic hose.

 

[ForceFed70]

Some good looking install progress. Nice to see another member from Beautiful BC. The Okanagan at that - I'm in Kelowna!

- Appliance must have a shut off valve as mentioned.
- Flex hose is allowed but my inspector encouraged me not to use it. Apparently they ALL fail, it's not a matter of if but when. He would have passed it tho.

If you are in Kelowna, I find "Andrew Sherat" to be the best HVAC supply store. They are geared for commercial customers tho and won't be eager to assist you with questions.

Here's a link to my Mr. Heater install thread if it offers any assistance:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174108

 

[Builderrhys]

Thanks dfiler2. I will pick up a valve and install................ Rhys.

 

[Builderrhys]

All done. Valve installed at flex line. Vent run and all leak checked. Fired up and works great. Just need to get it inspected and properly set up (gas pressures checked and gas valve adjusted) by the HVAC guy. I decided to run the double wall insulated vent all the way from the heater to the vent cap. The Snaplock B vent numbers that I used are listed below. Supplied by Noble Plumbing in Niagara Falls, On.

• DONPRED04P26 - 4 to 3 reducer
• DONPBV4BDC - 4" B Vent Draft Hood Connector
• FLEX2SVSWT05 - 5" Wall Thimble
• DONPBV4BE - 4"B Vent 90 Deg Elbow Adjustable
• DONPBV4B3 - 4" B Vent 36" Length

 

[Builderrhys]

Picture of additional gas valve.

 

[James-W]

All done. Valve installed at flex line. Vent run and all leak checked. Fired up and works great. Just need to get it inspected and properly set up (gas pressures checked and gas valve adjusted) by the HVAC guy. I decided to run the double wall insulated vent all the way from the heater to the vent cap. The Snaplock B vent numbers that I used are listed below. Supplied by Noble Plumbing in Niagara Falls, On.

• DONPRED04P26 - 4 to 3 reducer
• DONPBV4BDC - 4" B Vent Draft Hood Connector
• FLEX2SVSWT05 - 5" Wall Thimble
• DONPBV4BE - 4"B Vent 90 Deg Elbow Adjustable
• DONPBV4B3 - 4" B Vent 36" Length

It may be just an optical illusion, but it looks like the vent pipe is slanted downward from the heater to the wall outlet opening. Is it slanted downward, and if so, is it supposed to be that way? I always thought an exhaust vent was supposed to be slanted upward so the warm exhaust gases would be vented outside even if the exhaust blower fan stopped working. But I could be wrong on that because I am not a heating guy.

 

[ForceFed70]

It may be just an optical illusion, but it looks like the vent pipe is slanted downward from the heater to the wall outlet opening. Is it slanted downward, and if so, is it supposed to be that way? I always thought an exhaust vent was supposed to be slanted upward so the warm exhaust gases would be vented outside even if the exhaust blower fan stopped working. But I could be wrong on that because I am not a heating guy.

Noticed the same thing and it's not to code.

 

[SuperD]

All done. Valve installed at flex line. Vent run and all leak checked. Fired up and works great. Just need to get it inspected and properly set up (gas pressures checked and gas valve adjusted) by the HVAC guy. I decided to run the double wall insulated vent all the way from the heater to the vent cap. The Snaplock B vent numbers that I used are listed below. Supplied by Noble Plumbing in Niagara Falls, On.

• DONPRED04P26 - 4 to 3 reducer
• DONPBV4BDC - 4" B Vent Draft Hood Connector
• FLEX2SVSWT05 - 5" Wall Thimble
• DONPBV4BE - 4"B Vent 90 Deg Elbow Adjustable
• DONPBV4B3 - 4" B Vent 36" Length

I thought (in Canada) that you can only horizontal vent with Category 3 approved pipe. Please let us know if it gets approved with the B vent because it sure is a lot less money than the cat 3 vent pipe.

 

[Builderrhys]

From the TSSA Blog to answer your Question SuperD. I have a similar answer to ForceFed70's question. This is a Reznor UDAP 45, 5,000 BTU less than mine. Open the link and read the comments from the TSSA. Thanks, Rhys.

http://tssablog.org/?question=category-iii-appliance-venting

 

[SuperD]

From the TSSA Blog to answer your Question SuperD. I have a similar answer to ForceFed70's question. This is a Reznor UDAP 45, 5,000 BTU less than mine. Open the link and read the comments from the TSSA. Thanks, Rhys.

http://tssablog.org/?question=category-iii-appliance-venting

Does the vent pipe you used have the UL1738 & ULS636 approval on it? I have attached a photo from the Mr Heater owner manual as well to explain. All of the pipe I have found that meets those approvals ( UL1738 & ULS636) is stainless steel alloy and is pricey. But if I could find BH vent that has those UL approval codes I should be able to use it as a horizontal vent. Thanks for the help.

 

[Builderrhys]

I will be out of town over the next three days with work. I will verify when I get back.................. Rhys.

 

[Builderrhys]

Sorry SuperD, forgot to post the ULC number. This is the tag off of the vent. Not sure if it cross-references over to your number. I did have it inspected today. It was drop tested and they actually checked a permissive on the blower for proper shut off of the heater by disconnecting a wire , basically checking a safety. All certified and tagged. The inspector had no issue with the double wall B vent that was used. All I can say is this venting is good to go in South Western Ontario. Rhys.

 

[SuperD]

Glad it passed, thanks for the note Builderrhys!

It seems in BC the inspector from the BC safety branch requires a horizontal vent pipe that meets the previous noted Cat III requirements ( UL1738 and ULS636). I called my gas inspector last week (was very personable with good suggestions and advice). I may go with a vertical vent as I have some issues with horizontal getting too close to a window and the propane tank. He also told me that the 10' verses 2' clearance for a vertical roof stack only applies if there is a vertical obstruction nearby, he would accept a 4 foot vertical on my 12/12 roof. Will keep you all posted as I move ahead.