A few weeks ago, I mentioned how I felt like the home security industry was lagging to adop...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
- Thread starter Ryan
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A few weeks ago, I mentioned how I felt like the home security industry was lagging to adop...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
OP
No... that's a good point actually. It's hosted on their cloud. You get 12 hours of video hosting for free. I'd think that would be plenty for most people, but I'm a nerd and upgraded to 48 hours for $50 a year.
It would be a really nice feature if you could host it on your own server.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Does it require its own wireless phone number to make the call or does it do it through the Internet ?
Looked it up. It is WiFi, so it you loose your Internet connection it is dead. Same is probably true if you lose power.
I guess if you are really paranoid, you could buy a wireless hotspot and an inexpensive wireless plan (Ting ?) and hook the hotspot on the Canary to a small UPS.
Looks like someone beat Nest to the punch !
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OP
Correct... but I don't think of this as a failsafe security system at all. I have that already. This is just another layer of security that allows me to check in on my space when I'm away and one that is capable of giving me notifications if someone does't cut power or internet.
If someone does cut power, my traditional security system will go off... so I'm cool there.
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I will be getting this!! And man those floors sure look good in the shop!!
Thanks Ryan!
Thanks Ryan!
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Here is the down side.
OP
Here is the down side.
Agreed... It would be so much cooler if you could store the video on your own server. This just seems like a flashback to traditional alarm companies and their monitoring fees... It's old fashioned and senseless.
That being said, I think 12 hours of storage is probably fine for most people... And that's free.
Thanks for the reply...12 hours is more than enough with motion activated video. I wonder how long it takes for the video to time out after motion detected...
Strouty
Well-known member
I was thinking the same as Kenwc.
Does it auto delete after a certain point or will it stop recording?
Does it auto delete after a certain point or will it stop recording?
bczygan
Well-known member
NONE of these "Home Security" devices work!
Let me explain.
So you have devices that detect entry, set of an alarm, notify you and the alarm company, who notify the police, who eventually get by your place and make a report (Sometimes).
Your building is still damaged and your valuables are still gone.
If you've spent adequate money, you may have halfway decent photos of the perpetrators.
Put them in an album and put it on a shelf. You'll never find them, and even if by chance you did, your stuff is still gone.
There is only one surefire way to prevent theft, and that is to not have anything to steal.
Barring that extreme solution, you must do everything possible to avoid the theft in the first place, because once it happens, you have lost.
The first thing to do is to prevent entry to where the valuables are.
A typical modern house is an open invitation for entry. Lots are open, especially on the street side, to present good curb appeal.
Privacy fences in rear yards are no real barrier.
The house itself is a Swiss cheese of door and window openings, inviting easy entry.
Even walls can be breached by a stolen vehicle battering them.
So my first rule is to have little worth stealing. Then the second thing is to prevent physical entry. This means rings and layers of physical barriers. Starting with perimeter walls on the property lines. Any openings in these walls (And they must be minimal), must be doubly secure with gates and doors as strong and impenetrable as the wall itself.
The second line of defense is the structure of the building itself. Walls and roofs should be as difficult to penetrate as the yard's perimeter wall. And openings should be as secure.
Humans are resourceful, so you need other methods of protection. A couple of useful ones are camouflage, misdirection and containment.
Hide valuables in unexpected places. False walls, hidden rooms, fake furniture backs, hidden cellars etc.
Misdirect thieves that do gain entry by placing items that look valuable, but aren't, in the usual places, for them to take.
Contain anyone who makes entry, until authorities can arrive. Create an obvious and easy entry path that leads to a chamber that will not allow escape.
There are other things that can be done, but these are the main ones. Of course monitoring and alarming needs doing too.
,
Most people play the numbers game and hope they don't get targeted. They buy an alarm system with monitoring, keep lights on, get a dog and buy insurance.
Bill
Let me explain.
So you have devices that detect entry, set of an alarm, notify you and the alarm company, who notify the police, who eventually get by your place and make a report (Sometimes).
Your building is still damaged and your valuables are still gone.
If you've spent adequate money, you may have halfway decent photos of the perpetrators.
Put them in an album and put it on a shelf. You'll never find them, and even if by chance you did, your stuff is still gone.
There is only one surefire way to prevent theft, and that is to not have anything to steal.
Barring that extreme solution, you must do everything possible to avoid the theft in the first place, because once it happens, you have lost.
The first thing to do is to prevent entry to where the valuables are.
A typical modern house is an open invitation for entry. Lots are open, especially on the street side, to present good curb appeal.
Privacy fences in rear yards are no real barrier.
The house itself is a Swiss cheese of door and window openings, inviting easy entry.
Even walls can be breached by a stolen vehicle battering them.
So my first rule is to have little worth stealing. Then the second thing is to prevent physical entry. This means rings and layers of physical barriers. Starting with perimeter walls on the property lines. Any openings in these walls (And they must be minimal), must be doubly secure with gates and doors as strong and impenetrable as the wall itself.
The second line of defense is the structure of the building itself. Walls and roofs should be as difficult to penetrate as the yard's perimeter wall. And openings should be as secure.
Humans are resourceful, so you need other methods of protection. A couple of useful ones are camouflage, misdirection and containment.
Hide valuables in unexpected places. False walls, hidden rooms, fake furniture backs, hidden cellars etc.
Misdirect thieves that do gain entry by placing items that look valuable, but aren't, in the usual places, for them to take.
Contain anyone who makes entry, until authorities can arrive. Create an obvious and easy entry path that leads to a chamber that will not allow escape.
There are other things that can be done, but these are the main ones. Of course monitoring and alarming needs doing too.
,
Most people play the numbers game and hope they don't get targeted. They buy an alarm system with monitoring, keep lights on, get a dog and buy insurance.
Bill
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Lassen Forge
Well-known member
And put Punji sticks in the bottom to inhibit their attempt to get free from the 10' slick vertical concrete walls.
I don't want to say I've ever considered such a thing...
Our former local jeweler (east Indian, not only had your usual jewelry stuff but dealt with a lot of "traditional" jewelry - 22K gold, Gemstones, etc.) had a system not unlike a foreign bank - you had 2 doors to go thru to get in or out, one person at a tine would fit into the intermediate area, and they buzzed you in and out, one at a time. Plus all of them - from the guys behind the counter to the cat at the workbench in back to grandma upstairs in the office - were all armed. It also had roll down steel doors that came down in front of the shop if the alarm was triggered or a window was broken. I asked them if they'd ever been robbed, he started laughing... I then asked if he'd ever locked himself out, he said one time, and it took the better part of the day to break in WITH the help of a locksmith.
Now THAT'S secure.
I disagree with most of what Bill said in this post and this part in particular:
I am not a FBI crime statistician but I would imagine that a fair bit of petty crime and burglaries are perpetrated by neighborhood punks. Armed with some decent and timely pictures, I bet you would see some of your stuff back.
But hey... I don't live in Detroit.
I am not a FBI crime statistician but I would imagine that a fair bit of petty crime and burglaries are perpetrated by neighborhood punks. Armed with some decent and timely pictures, I bet you would see some of your stuff back.
But hey... I don't live in Detroit.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
In common use is some areas.
So Bill used up some bandwidth, now it is my turn !
The '68 Detroit riots occurred along 12th street. There were a lot of pawn broker there who specialized in jewelry and guns. every building in that area was destroyed.
The jewelers who wanted to go back into business were not about to build anywhere in Detroit, so many of the moved to Southfield literally within sight of American Jewelry and Loan of ******** Pawn fame. There were new high rise office building going up there so many of them bought a suite.
Not only did they have the double doors, but you had to be "referred" and set up an "appointment".
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Sadly true in most cases, especially if you live in a big city !
Like my old rusty '98 E150 ! It looks better than a lot of cars that age, but it does have some rust hole. Inside, they might find a decent flashlight and a couple of dollars worth of change.
Given enough time, they will get in !
More than 1 liquor store in Detroit has been robbed by a couple of guys and a sledge hammer busting through the block wall, sometime right on the front side walk.
In my previous post, I mentioned that the jewelers on 12th Strret lost everything (well, the Detroit Police showed up and took all of the guns and gave the shop owners 5 minutes to put their diamonds in their safe). Once the buildings were torched, the amateurs tried to break open the safes with sledge hammers. Then the pros showed up, assessed the situation and got oxy-acetylene torch from the auto shop around the corner and cut big holes in the safes !
I have the Netgear Arlo system. It is similar in that it has the cloud based recording BUT instead of just 12hours, you get 7 days free!
I havent checked but I think i can do the away feature too. just another option if you are interested in looking into these types of systems.
Arlo is 100% wireless on the cameras (Battery operated, lasts for 3-5 months depending on ammt of movement in front of the camera)
I havent checked but I think i can do the away feature too. just another option if you are interested in looking into these types of systems.
Arlo is 100% wireless on the cameras (Battery operated, lasts for 3-5 months depending on ammt of movement in front of the camera)
bczygan
Well-known member
The only thing that keeps us from total chaos is the social contract we try to adhere to daily.
Bill
Bill
OP
So, it simply records for as long as it sees motion. I think there is a 2 minute or buffer. On the free package, once it goes over the 12 hours of the package it just starts over and starts recording over the previous data.
So, you will always have 12 hours of video.
...
Oh, and some of y'all are crazy man. I don't live in Detroit. I live in the country.
Strouty
Well-known member
Most of us are crazy, bat$hit crazy! (LOL).
bczygan
Well-known member
I do, of course, and I haven't implemented all the above things. We have been broken into 4 times. Have had 4 cars stolen and 4 vandalized. I've been held up on the sidewalk in front of my next door neighbor.
What has kept it from being worse, is having some standing in the neighborhood, being here almost all the time, having cars parked 24/7, having dogs, and keeping lights on.
And one poster is right. Some is done by people in the neighborhood. Suburbanites certainly aren't coming in and doing these things. But the social contract is tattered here. Some people think they have a right to take what they need and want from others. And the code of silence protects them.
You in the country are not exempt. If you have no nearby neighbors, who watches out for you like my neighbor and I do. We've both caught someone trying to break into our neighbors house, and stopped them. Do your authorities respond any faster to an alarm than they do here?
When it happens to you, is it any less devastating?
Maybe we should all plan for the worst, and hope for the best.
Bill
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shortykorte
Well-known member
Thanks Ryan. Something to consider.
As a previous Pawn shop owner who had 2 vehicles driven through the front door, I know from first hand experience the benefits of an alarm company. I lived within walking distance of my shop but by the time alarm company called me, it took 2 minutes to grab shotgun and run (yes run) to the shop, thieves were long gone with the goods. Found out it took 9 minutes for alarm company to call and about 9 minutes for cops to show.
Alarms may fend off most but as stated by Bill, good preventive measure are just as important. It's not Mayberry anymore.
As a previous Pawn shop owner who had 2 vehicles driven through the front door, I know from first hand experience the benefits of an alarm company. I lived within walking distance of my shop but by the time alarm company called me, it took 2 minutes to grab shotgun and run (yes run) to the shop, thieves were long gone with the goods. Found out it took 9 minutes for alarm company to call and about 9 minutes for cops to show.
Alarms may fend off most but as stated by Bill, good preventive measure are just as important. It's not Mayberry anymore.
rmalkow2
Well-known member
Well its unfortunate that simple review of a piece of technology deteriorated so quickly but I enjoyed it none the less so, thanks Ryan. It is what it is and seems to have a lot of features for a relatively cheap price if using the free service plan.Agree that it's not meant to be the perfect solution but an added layer especially if you want the ability to see video or live.
Jinks
Well-known member
You do realize that one really manly fart in the shop & the Canary will be the first thing to die, don't you?.........
To shortykorte & others depending on alarm companies; The delay in alarm company/police response is a problem. I'd opt for an alarm siren/announcement/etc. that was so loud it HURT. Had one in a house once & it was almost impossible to remain inside if it went off. I'd also look into embedding vehicle proof obstructions (posts, etc.) in the walls or inside the store to disable vehicles driven through the front.
Really saddens me that some of you have to deal with that side of (sub)humanity.
To shortykorte & others depending on alarm companies; The delay in alarm company/police response is a problem. I'd opt for an alarm siren/announcement/etc. that was so loud it HURT. Had one in a house once & it was almost impossible to remain inside if it went off. I'd also look into embedding vehicle proof obstructions (posts, etc.) in the walls or inside the store to disable vehicles driven through the front.
Really saddens me that some of you have to deal with that side of (sub)humanity.
Ol'WhiteCap
Well-known member
I've been "thinking" about a security system for a while. And I just may get something, I don't know.
I do know that Seven years ago I learned what is important when "swine flue" took my son. Yes, I lock my doors, but the guns are in the closet, jewelry is on the dresser, keys are in the ignition, and a big dog is at home 24-7. His job is to wake me in time to get the loaded gun out from under the bed.
Farmers insurance will replace the "toys".
I do know that Seven years ago I learned what is important when "swine flue" took my son. Yes, I lock my doors, but the guns are in the closet, jewelry is on the dresser, keys are in the ignition, and a big dog is at home 24-7. His job is to wake me in time to get the loaded gun out from under the bed.
Farmers insurance will replace the "toys".
My home security is Brutus and Schnappsy. They have free roam of the garage, entire yard, and the house. Good luck. They will not eat food from anyone but my kids and myself. God help you if the feel you are threatening my kids when they are around.
For additional measures I tossed a few ADT signs in the yard and on windows as well.
For additional measures I tossed a few ADT signs in the yard and on windows as well.
White Shadow
Well-known member
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Seriously? A dog, unless highly trained for security purposes, isn't going to do a damn thing if someone breaks into your house. That's been proven over and over again. The most useful thing a dog can do is act as a deterrent by barking, but even that's a stretch because the vast majority of dogs will greet an intruder at the door, wagging their tails, ready to play.
Hybridss
Well-known member
There is plenty of evidence that suggest dogs on balance are a deterrent to burglaries. I dont think this is really in doubt.
There are many aspects to this but I do think, and evidence suggests, that you will reduce your overall risk of being burglarized with a dog or dogs in the home. Most dogs that I have seen are highly trained in this area...they just bark loudly whenever there is an external disturbance or visitor. Generally that seems to be enough to deter between 50 and 70% of opportunistic burglaries. And I type this, I swear to god, as my dogs are FREAKING OUT at the UPS driver simply dropping a box at my front door.
If you are specifically targeted by a slick burgler trying to get at something specific...most dogs probably will not help and the burgler will have a tactic to deal with them or will be savvy enough to handle the dogs in some manner.
Some slick burglers actually report targeting houses with "Beware of Dog" signs because they know that dogs have to go out and generally dog owners are lazy about securing back doors etc. But those smarter criminals are much less common...lol.
The perfect solution to this is non-existent. But my philosophy to address the problem is statistical in nature. Layers of probability reduction to make my place less appealing to the greatest number of criminals.
The number one most impactful category IMO is where you live.
Second may be who you associate with and allow in and around your home.
Just list that and all other categories. Arrange in priority, strike the ones from the list that are out of your control (such as cant afford to move) and act on the rest where possible.
After doing all of this you can still be robbed. So I have good insurance and take pictures of all my ****.
Zeke
Well-known member
I'm not hear to bash any system but I'd like to point out that at that price point there are many to choose from that do much the same thing. That is a nice package that sits well on a strategic spot.
66HertzClone
ALLIANCE MEMBER
White Shadow
Well-known member
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Maybe by barking...but most dogs don't do squat if an intruder enters the house.
It's easy to find tons of videos like this:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/05...l-your-dog-react-when-a-home-invader-strikes/
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
People always bring up guns and dogs. They don't help if you're gone and you've brought your dog with you (and most people I know who own dogs nearly always bring them along wherever they go.)
Hybridss
Well-known member
I didnt say dogs would do anything once inside. I said having dogs tends to reduce the probability of your house being targeted for burglary. And barking is more effective a deterrent than no barking.
Personally I would hope my dogs would bark like hell when an intruder is attempting to gain entrance...but if the intruder still is insistent on entering and does so...I hope my dogs do absolutely nothing other than maybe continue barking. Nothing I have or own would be worth them getting hurt or killed.
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Hybridss
Well-known member
My dogs are in my home 95% of the time. so 95% of the time the reduction in probability for dog owners being burgled applies.
Dont get stuck on dogs here. They certainly are not the end all be all and are only one means of reducing the probability.
I would consider the place you live far more a factor.
White Shadow
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And that's exactly what I said in the first place. But in all honesty, it's not much of a deterrent at all....probably only for the most opportunistic of thieves. If someone has your house targeted for a burglary, the dog ain't gonna be a big concern.
OP
I'm not sure how this little feature got twisted around to Detroit and dogs and...
In any case, I have a story about dogs that pertains to security and this thread's latest twist.
Every dog guy gets that one dog in their life that no other dog ever lives up to. I got mine when I was about 20 years old. He was a rescued Pit Bull. He never barked. He never growled. He was the most laid back dog ever... and my best pal for 16 years.
In any case, when he was about 4 years old, he started scratching at my front door like mad at around 3am. He never barked, but he scratched at the door so hard that it woke me up. I was confused because when I had to pee, he typically just scratched at the back door... but I was still half asleep, so I drug him to the back door, opened it, and went back to bed.
30 seconds later, I heard primal screaming coming from my front yard. I jumped out of bed, ran out the front door and found my dog tearing into a kid's neck like there was no tomorrow. He wasn't growling, he was just getting after it.
I called for the dog to release like we were playing frisbee and he did so... He then sat next to the kid as he bled and cried.
By this time, I was waking up and started to get my wits about me. The kid had broken into my truck and was in the process of yanking my stereo out when my dog jumped my back fence and attacked him.
Long story short, the kid spent five days in the hospital and his parents decided to sue me. He was 17 years old and didn't have a record. I was a college kid and couldn't afford to settle and pay the kid's hospital bill.
So, I went to court. After 15 minutes of testimony, the judge sided with me and held the kid and his parents responsible for my dog's impound bill, the kid's hospital bill, and restitution for all the damage to my truck. I literally got checks from the family every quarter until about 5 years ago. I think it was like $12k total.
Point being - I think a lot of people see security with black and white solutions. In my opinion, that's not the case. I don't care where you live or if you have a dog or not... If someone wants something you have and wants into your house/shop, your best defense is multiple layers... That means dogs, traditional security systems, cameras, new technology, etc... The more layers, the better.
That's how I approach it anyway... and at least thus far, I've really liked this Canary system as an additional layer. In fact, something pretty cool happened yesterday.
Remember when someone said that this system's biggest weakness was that it was useless if your connection was cut? Well, yesterday I was working on my router and disconnected the cable modem. Within seconds of doing so, I got a notification on my phone that the Canary had lost it's connection. Not fool proof, but not bad.
What happens is the Canary app on your phone pings your camera every now and then. If it doesn't get a response, it's pops a notification.
I like this thing. I like it a lot. And for the price, I think it's a real solid layer to an existing security system.
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
My nephew lives in Detroit. He has had his stock rims and tires stolen twice in less than 4 years (who steals rims off of a Fusion ?). Both time, because he was to lazy to park in the garage.
His car insurance went through the roof after the second time !
Freakish Mind
Well-known member
I gave this one a try for 2 days and returned it. I was intrigued by the wireless part of it. The views were crisp. But the downfall was the batteries. It says in the manual batteries will last you 6-9 months. But fails to mention only if you have it on the lowest setting possible in an area with very little traffic. Ohh yea batteries for it cost $35 dollars for a set of 4 (takes 4 batteries) Well day two and it was showing my battery % was down to 85% already. I decided to pack it up and return it. Ended up going with a wired Swann 4 channel 4 camera system wired with NO LAG.
Has been mentioned in other threads, but make certain to evaluate all cameras based on snapshots of *moving* targets. See if you can identify a person wearing a ballcap at range while they're moving at a normal walking pace along a reasonable path through the camera's field of vision. This is especially important for low-light shots.
Camera makers are a tricky lot and generally use a series of samples over a period of time to come up with absolutely great looking video feeds when there's little motion. Unfortunately, those same cameras may perform poorly when you're trying to identify a moving target and there's little light (or you're running with IR).
This check should obviously be done with recorded footage rather than a live view.
Camera makers are a tricky lot and generally use a series of samples over a period of time to come up with absolutely great looking video feeds when there's little motion. Unfortunately, those same cameras may perform poorly when you're trying to identify a moving target and there's little light (or you're running with IR).
This check should obviously be done with recorded footage rather than a live view.