Above 1200 Sq/FT Restored 1930's Auto Shop

[Hugo L.]

Hugo L. that's a legitimate question, especially since I haven't posted anything about the apparatus that was fabricated to support the eye-bolt or the underlying structure of the house that was designed to support the lift in general.

It's been a long day and will be a short night and another long day for me tomorrow so can I ask you to please hold that thought until I can do a proper post about it all?



For now know that, yes, everything associated with the lift support is overkill. The eye-bolt is forged and rated at supporting 13,500 lbs (6,124 kg). It's plenty beefy. The steel used in the mount fabrication is all 1/2" (1.2 cm) material and the whole mechanism is all supported by no less than 7 trusses located in the second floor. I'll show it all to you when I'm not so tired.

Many thanks to SiGmA_X for posting a link to the post where I at least showed some of what is involved in supporting the lift.

More to come including pictures of the lift in action. Today it was used to successfully lower material into the wood shop as per design. It was a good day.

Thomas

Well, I'm still holding that thought...

While you're at it, another question came to mind : any attached garage must be airtight, as to prevent any carbon monoxyde from entering the house. As such, I know that the Canadian Building Code demands that the door connecting the house and the garage be fitted with an auto-close mechanism (just like any store, for example), be it spring loaded or pneumatic.

As well, you can't have the same air exchanger connected to the garage and the rest of the house, for the same reasons.

How did this setup manage to get a thumbs-up from the inspectors? I would think that there has got to be a gap around the lift platform where CO2 could infiltrate, therefore contaminating the rest of the house?

 

[SiGmA_X]

How did this setup manage to get a thumbs-up from the inspectors? I would think that there has got to be a gap around the lift platform where CO2 could infiltrate, therefore contaminating the rest of the house?

I'm guessing it is because it has a tight fitting cover for periods of time when it is not in use (most of the time).

 

[Craptain]

Well, I'm still holding that thought...

While you're at it, another question came to mind : any attached garage must be airtight, as to prevent any carbon monoxyde from entering the house. As such, I know that the Canadian Building Code demands that the door connecting the house and the garage be fitted with an auto-close mechanism (just like any store, for example), be it spring loaded or pneumatic.

As well, you can't have the same air exchanger connected to the garage and the rest of the house, for the same reasons.

How did this setup manage to get a thumbs-up from the inspectors? I would think that there has got to be a gap around the lift platform where CO2 could infiltrate, therefore contaminating the rest of the house?

The lift does not serve the garage. It serves the basement workshop. The garage is separate.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[oldironfarmer]

I think Thomas will clarify that the lift does indeed connect the garage to the basement.

The airtight garage requirement is a new one for me. Minor amounts of CO (CO2 is carbon dioxide) are not harmful, and if a car is not run in a closed garage (never a good idea) it would seem that the Canadian regulations might be ultra conservative. Hmmm.... that would be a first.

 

[Jeff Joslin]

it would seem that the Canadian regulations might be ultra conservative. Hmmm.... that would be a first.

Canuckistani politics might be less conservative than in Trumpistan, but our building regulations tend to be stricter. I didn't realize that your regulations were less strict on air infiltration from garage to house but it doesn't surprise me. One example of stricter Canadian regulation I notice a lot is stair railings and balustrades: in Canada the baluster spacing cannot allow a 4-inch ball to pass through anywhere, and there cannot be any features that would allow a child to climb, and in my experience building inspectors interpret this to prohibit just about anything other than stair-to-railing vertical balusters. And the balusters themselves must be pretty strong, and again, the inspectors err on the side of caution. I could go on...

 

[jbmatth]

I believe Jeff is spot on with our regulations on balusters and the 4 inch gap, this is to prevent children from getting their heads caught. Check out the regulations on baby beds sometime they will make your head spin, WOW!
JB

 

[rixtrix1]

Specs for attached garage floors here in AZ require a 3.5" step up to the house door, supposedly to keep noxious vapors from entering the home door, which has to be self closing, solid construction and fire-rated. I guess we'll just have to wait for Thomas to answer the question, and I'm sure he has a great answer.

 

[BB767]

Garage/Lift Interface

I'll give a more detailed answer about the garage, the lift etc., hopefully tonight. Just really covered up right now still with house/basement shop construction details. I've got a load of construction material coming for delivery in a few minutes that I've got to get ready for.

Thanks everyone!

Thomas

PS, I love living here!!!!!!

 

[Hugo L.]

The lift does not serve the garage. It serves the basement workshop. The garage is separate.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

I think Thomas will clarify that the lift does indeed connect the garage to the basement.

The airtight garage requirement is a new one for me. Minor amounts of CO (CO2 is carbon dioxide) are not harmful, and if a car is not run in a closed garage (never a good idea) it would seem that the Canadian regulations might be ultra conservative. Hmmm.... that would be a first.

The lift serves the basement from the garage. And the basement is connected to what? The house. So if CO2 can permeate from the garage to the basement, from there it will permeate to the house.

Granted, no one shoud run a car in the garage with the doors closed. But there have been numerous cases of people starting their car to warm it up and forgetting it and, worse, a remote starter malfunctioning, which in turn had the car running unbeknownst to the owners who nearly died.

 

[BlueBomber]

The lift serves the basement from the garage. And the basement is connected to what? The house. So if CO2 can permeate from the garage to the basement, from there it will permeate to the house.

Granted, no one shoud run a car in the garage with the doors closed. But there have been numerous cases of people starting their car to warm it up and forgetting it and, worse, a remote starter malfunctioning, which in turn had the car running unbeknownst to the owners who nearly died.

Heck, I've had a remote start key fob get triggered in my pocket and come out to find the car running in the driveway.

 

[rlwhitetr3b]

Specs for attached garage floors here in AZ require a 3.5" step up to the house door, supposedly to keep noxious vapors from entering the home door, which has to be self closing, solid construction and fire-rated. I guess we'll just have to wait for Thomas to answer the question, and I'm sure he has a great answer.

We checked into the step up thing when we were building the foundation of our new house, which is a few miles from Thomas's. It is no-longer the law in Illinois or Champaign co. I do not think we ever had the self closing door regulation.

 

[eokie1]

every remote start car, that I have seen, shuts down, after 5 or 10 min or so, if you don't get in it with the key fob and drive off........ so I don't think a remote-started car could/would run long enough to FILL a house with CO ??? unless you had some MAJOR GAPS in your man door(s) insulation/w'stripping from garage to house....???

 

[Craptain]

My apologies for mis-guiding. I had 2 things I was thinking about and just posted the random thoughts and not what I intended.
I really should fully engage brain before posting.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[gasgas17]

The lift serves the basement from the garage. And the basement is connected to what? The house. So if CO2 can permeate from the garage to the basement, from there it will permeate to the house.

Granted, no one should run a car in the garage with the doors closed. But there have been numerous cases of people starting their car to warm it up and forgetting it and, worse, a remote starter malfunctioning, which in turn had the car running unbeknownst to the owners who nearly died.

There was a case here years back of a new Audi with an after market remote starter starting the car in the basement garage while the family slept. They were lucky to have woken up in the morning with extreme head aches and dizziness. The 2 family dogs both died. That dealer promptly removed all and any remote starters they ever installed for their customers. The family with the bad unit was very lucky to have lived. No way would I ever own a vehicle with a remote starter.

 

[markviii]

--rlwhitetr3b is correct about Champaign County, IL. But even better, here in the COTU, there is no need for an inspection before occupancy. We just had to have a building permit to start construction for which the fee is based on your projected cost. Since we were building so far inside the set back and not building over 3 levels above ground, the village didn't have any more authority.

We'll be taking some time with furniture arranging. There's no hurry. I got rods in some of the closets, so I was able to move all of my clothes before the snow started today. All I have remaining in the old house is mostly books. I have a couple desks to get rid of and some things to donate to Habitat Restore and various other places.

Thanks for all the positive sentiments about our move.

Chris

 

[Bob Heine]

Are we seriously discussing carbon monoxide poisoning on this thread? Is this not the home of Captain Thomas Overkill? Even a mere mortal like me has Smoke and Carbon Monoxide detectors in multiple locations (including the garage) in my death trap of a home. I am far more afraid of leaving the house and encountering drivers who think they are as smart as the phones permanently stuck to the side of their head.

 

[BBChevro]

Are we seriously discussing carbon monoxide poisoning on this thread? Is this not the home of Captain Thomas Overkill? Even a mere mortal like me has Smoke and Carbon Monoxide detectors in multiple locations (including the garage) in my death trap of a home. I am far more afraid of leaving the house and encountering drivers who think they are as smart as the phones permanently stuck to the side of their head.

Very good point Bob.

We should all give Thomas a lot more credit for his abundance of common sense (as well as his attention to detail and design skills) - I'm sure he's got it all covered.

.

 

[BB767]

Well, I'm still holding that thought...

While you're at it, another question came to mind : any attached garage must be airtight, as to prevent any carbon monoxyde from entering the house. As such, I know that the Canadian Building Code demands that the door connecting the house and the garage be fitted with an auto-close mechanism (just like any store, for example), be it spring loaded or pneumatic.

As well, you can't have the same air exchanger connected to the garage and the rest of the house, for the same reasons.

How did this setup manage to get a thumbs-up from the inspectors? I would think that there has got to be a gap around the lift platform where CO2 could infiltrate, therefore contaminating the rest of the house?

Hugo L you bring up an interesting and serious point that certainly deserves discussion. First of all, as Robert posted, the state of Illinois, Champaign County (where we live) nor Philo as any regulations regarding any of this.
Not everything can regulated, using some common sense goes a long way to keep you out of trouble.

That said, accidents can and do happen however, so to minimize risks, the cover on the lift shaft is very tight fitting indeed. So tight in fact, no light can be seen around it. It's not airtight strictly speaking, however it would allow only minimal amounts of CO2 to pass by it. The garage does not have any shared air-handling with the house. It's heated with radiate floor tubing and has no duct work for AC or vents of any kind so no contamination can occur that way. The man door to the house has an exterior type threshold and seal.

Lastly as Bob Heine points out, we do indeed have hard wired (no batteries) smoke and CO detectors on every level of the house and basement. Additionally the house is equipped...



...with air quality monitoring equipment called CERV. As you might recall, its primary function is to constantly monitor air quality throughout the house. If it senses a build up of CO2 or high levels of VOC's it will remove air from the home and replace it with fresh air from outside.



The CERV unit has dedicated intake and exhaust ducts for this purpose. They are sited far enough from each other to prevent cross contamination as well.

I certainly appreciate the concern and am glad you brought it up. As you can see, I'm very confident of the safety we've built into the home. Nothing is perfect (except Miss Chris of course! ), but I'm happy with our home. Many thanks for your continued interest and taking the time post your thoughts. That contributes to the quality of the thread for all of us.

Thomas

 

[Sweet Old Bill]

Thomas said:

"Nothing is perfect (except Miss Chris of course! )"

You are a smooth operator! We all agree with you, when you are right, you are right!

 

[rixtrix1]

While our home, built in 1983, came with hard-wired smoke detectors, current (hehe) code requires battery operated ones be used in case of a power outage negating their usefulness in a fire situation. So, we have both, and I can't believe the hard-wired ones still work after all these years!

 

[Hugo L.]

Thomas, thanks for the explanation. I agree that common sense goes a long way.

It always amazes me that some things should be regulated, but aren't, and others are mere details that common sense could override, yet are regulated and enforced big time. But, many rules stem from tragedies that, in hindsight, would've been preventable.

As rixtrik pointed out though, a battery-powered backup detector is great in case of power outage.

Imagine an electrical fire that cuts power, and the only thing that should wake you up - the detector - being unable to do so precisely because the fire has cut its power!

Looking forward to details about the lift hook installation/planning/execution. That's a lot of trusses supporting it, from what little I can see.

 

[oldironfarmer]

I think you'll find that hard wired smoke detectors all have a battery backup these days. And they go off if the detector detects battery backup failure.

But you're right Hugo, oft times regulations are introduced after a tragedy. Unfortunately, the burden of regulation might not even have prevented the tragedy but it is political sense to do something. The rest of us pay years after year for the "fix". People who do not pay attention to what they are doing just can't be fully protected by regulation. Self closing doors into a garage are a prime example. I would wager you'll find a lot of those inoperative after a few years or the owner has them propped open. Maybe propped open so they could watch their turkey fryer in the garage from in the house. Being able to say after the fact that it was their own fault for defeating a safety device does not protect them. And the rest of us did not need the safety device to start with.

The proof is in the pudding. Are there more carbon monoxide poisonings where there are no self closing doors? I doubt it.

Thomas' CERV is a wonderful device. I have something similar, it's called a leaky old house.

 

[Hugo L.]

Thomas' CERV is a wonderful device. I have something similar, it's called a leaky old house.

Now that was funny!

 

[Big A1]

Thomas,

Thank you for sharing all this! This is just one neat thread!!!! It's taken me a cpl wks to read through, rather skim through

-Andy

 

[Homebody]

Thomas,

Thank you for sharing all this! This is just one neat thread!!!! It's taken me a cpl wks to read through, rather skim through

-Andy

You skimmed?!
Go back young man, you missed a lot and will never pass the test!!

 

[rixtrix1]

Now that was funny!

Indeed!

 

[Vette60]

Congrats on the move in! I have continue to enjoy this thread and thank both you and Chris for being so willing to share.

Take care,
Randy

 

[MacTexas]

Thomas said:

"Nothing is perfect (except Miss Chris of course! )"

You are a smooth operator! We all agree with you, when you are right, you are right!

I can tell you are going to pass the test even if you get every answer wrong.

It is good to see someone else besides me has a perfect wife.

 

[BB767]

Material Lift Details Revealed

Here is how the eye-bolt manages to support all that lift platform weight. The eye-bolt itself is a forged piece rated at 13,500 lbs. From the side...



...this is a look at the eye-bolt nestled in amongst the trusses. Here's a better view from below...



From underneath you can see several double trusses as well as a triple girder on the far right, all grouped around the area where the eye-bolt is mounted. The eye-bolt is attached to a steel box that is suspended from a steel plate that spans all those trusses.



This is looking down from above that area. If there was light in the basement you'd see the bottom of the lift shaft. Note all those trusses grouped together. When the house was designed, those trusses were placed there to support the lift with a capacity in excess of 4,000 lbs.



The eye-bolt mount consists of a 1/2" steel plate, long enough to span all the various trusses and a box attached (through bolted) to this plate. There are 6 mounting holes for the eye-bolt box to attach to.

The eye-bolt box...



...was necessary to position the eye-bolt below the bottom of the trusses which are are about 14" high. That box is made from 1/2" material, as are the corner gussets. It is through bolted to the steel plate above it.



The box was constructed by cutting 1/2" plate, but not cutting it completely through, then the sides were bent up. This made 3 sides of the box and a separate...



...piece was then cut and fitted to the 4th side of the box.



Where the 2 pieces of steel meet in the corner, I filled it with weld. (the rust was removed prior to welding)



Here it is jigged up and ready to be tack welded, and here it is...



...complete in all its overbuilt glory. The inside corner gussets are 1/2" material. I put them there to prevent any "racking" of the box. It should never experience any side-loading, but now it won't matter if it does.



This is a corner after it was filled.



I made 3 passes of weld on each corner to fill it up, letting it cool in between welds. It was all wire feed MIG welded.



This is the top of the box and the mounting holes where it bolts to the flat steel plate.


Here is the steel plate in place, on top of the trusses seen in the floor of the upstairs guest bedroom. I used flat head, Allen bolts to bolt the eye-bolt box below. You'll have to look closely to see them. The plate was 1/2" material and the sub-floor is 3/4" material so...



...1/4" material was glued on top of the plate...



...so it's now level with the sub-floor around it.



Now that it is carpeted, you'd never guess what is below it.

So that's how the lift mount was designed, constructed and installed. The lift was integral with the house design from the start and is all overbuilt. In my defense though, because of that...



...I had complete confidence when some heavy, heavy machines were suspended by that eye-bolt. Works good and lasts a long time.

Check back...



...there is more in store as I set up the basement wood shop.

Many, many thanks for all the good wishes as we continue our journey here in The Center Of The Universe.

Thomas

 

[Hugo L.]

Oh man, am I glad I asked!!!!! That is absolutely badass! Great design and execution.

Thanks a lot for this explanation. You, sir, are the man.

 

[Bob275]

Great design and execution.

You, sir, are the man.

There was doubt...?

 

[realvc]

That lift set up is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Way to go and thanks for a great write up about it.

I know you will enjoy all the hard work for many years to come.

 

[C_F]

Very impressive as usual!

I thought for sure one of the last photos would have shown the eye-bolt box all powder coated & looking purty. That's okay though, since only the trusses will see it for the rest of it's life, they won't care if it's bare steel or coated.

 

[Spareparts]

Triple overkill is more than ample, if you could anchor it to the ground you could pull the world backward's. Deep down we all knew that if you build something it is meant to last forever and forever. Thanks for letting all of us come along on this adventure.

 

[Homebody]

There was doubt...?

lmao None here! But for anyone just skimming through and seeing the pic I can totally understand the question as the hook just looks so small in the pics.

 

[Boosted1]

Definitely a lot of advance planning one the lift hook. Nicely done.

 

[pedro147]

Thomas,

I just have to say what a work of art your garage and all the associated projects are. To many people the documenting alone of all this is a massive undertaking in it's own right and was done to perfection.

Thank you for sharing all this with us and I for one feel very privileged to have been taken on this journey.

Pedro

 

[Thirdyfivepickup]

overkill....

there's no kill like it.

 

[bryceaugustine]

i know you are going to powdercoat the lift. after the fact here. but what about the eye bolt and its mounting frame work? why not powder coat it before the install? or did you and i overlooked it?

 

[SiGmA_X]

i know you are going to powdercoat the lift. after the fact here. but what about the eye bolt and its mounting frame work? why not powder coat it before the install? or did you and i overlooked it?

I had similar thoughts, its going to be expensive/time consuming to re do the carpet now!