Craftsman Block motor Bench Grinders - What's the Fuss (with resource information)

[bubinga]

One more question, I swear

It came with 3/4", but looks like there is room for a 1" wide wheel, will that work?

If I may interject?
Remove the nut holding the wheel in place, and add a 1/4" spacer along with the wheel, and thread your nut back on, and see if it looks to go on far enough?
What say all "ye grinder guru's"?

 

[Outlawmws]

That works as a test; the real Q is what plates you are using, if those are thicker then it reduces the available space so no real "rule of thumb"

 

[bubinga]

That works as a test; the real Q is what plates you are using, if those are thicker then it reduces the available space so no real "rule of thumb"

True Outlaw, Good point.
Well, then you would need the 1/4" spacer, and the (both) plates you are using.
Maybe not recommended, but one time, on the import rockler variable speed grinder, I used a 1" wheel, the nut with plates only threaded on 1/2 way.
I used blue locktite on the nut.
"I" did not have a problem, but again, Ones mileage may vary.
And you may *NOT* want to do this.

 

[ndfan6464]

UPS Ruins another day for me. Was so looking forward to getting this grinder. Thank goodness the seller is giving me a full refund. Back on the hunt AGAIN for a grinder

 

[ndfan6464]

Can you get replacement light covers? Found another one on eBay but has a chunk taken out of the cover that goes over the light

 

[EOC_Jason]

Yes, I think the light covers are available either on ereplacment parts or sears parts direct. Just the black plastic cup shape thing, right?

I would just take that broken guard off and use a buffing wheel or wire wheel if the other side is okay and the shaft isn't bent.

If I was shipping one of those I would most definitely double-box it. I don't trust shipping companies.

 

[ndfan6464]

Yes, I think the light covers are available either on ereplacment parts or sears parts direct. Just the black plastic cup shape thing, right?

I would just take that broken guard off and use a buffing wheel or wire wheel if the other side is okay and the shaft isn't bent.

If I was shipping one of those I would most definitely double-box it. I don't trust shipping companies.

Yes it's just the black cover. I thought about that as well but I know me. It'll drive me nuts knowing it's not complete. Kind of OCD I guess..lol

 

[EOC_Jason]

The part # is: 534497198

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part-number/534497198/0071/358.html

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/black-cover-p-973653.html

My cover was fine, but I had to replace the socket because the on/off was wore / broke. I found a new one at Lowes/HD and it screwed onto the existing flexible arm.

 

[M_George]

Be patience, there are plenty of busted and in complete grinders out there. You will likely find a parts grinder.

 

[ndfan6464]

The part # is: 534497198

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part-number/534497198/0071/358.html

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/black-cover-p-973653.html

Thanks buddy. Just found it right when you replied to me

 

[ndfan6464]

Be patience, there are plenty of busted and in complete grinders out there. You will likely find a parts grinder.

Does that part just slide off?

 

[ndfan6464]

Just looked and it's three bolts. I am a noob with these. I think your both right. I should just keep it. It's in great shape and free spinning the shaft still spins really smoothly. Don't want plug it in cause the original owner pulled the ground prong out making it a two prong. Sure it would be fine for a quick run but knowing my luck it'll blow me and the house up..lol

 

[bubinga]

V it out and JB weld and paint, at least till you find a new one.
I think it will hold up.

 

[ndfan6464]

V it out and JB weld and paint, at least till you find a new one.
I think it will hold up.

I thought about that but the top part of the cover is pushed to the left and down. Once I get some time to tear it down and look at it I'll see what I can do to maybe salvage it.. Hate to toss history away.

found another grinder that I'll use for parts. I'll have a grinder and a polisher I guess..Lol...

 

[EOC_Jason]

Another option with the guard off is to use a convlute or unitized wheel. Basically it looks like a big scotch-brite pad. You use them for deburring & polishing.

 

[ndfan6464]

Another option with the guard off is to use a convlute or unitized wheel. Basically it looks like a big scotch-brite pad. You use them for deburring & polishing.

See now that sounds like a plan. I love all the suggestions. Keep them coming. First time ever owning my own grinder especially a block. So learning about them and their capabilities. Are nuts, bolts and screws hard to come by for these block grinders? I've looked at sears direct and they have some listed as available and some that are not. A lot of the screws, nuts are really rusted out and want to replace them

 

[torqueman2002]

I thought about that but the top part of the cover is pushed to the left and down. Once I get some time to tear it down and look at it I'll see what I can do to maybe salvage it.. Hate to toss history away.

found another grinder that I'll use for parts. I'll have a grinder and a polisher I guess..Lol...

That's pretty much how it started for me.

I have used metal epoxy to repair a broken wheel guard. When I tempted to straighten out a bend/crack, the piece broke off. A little 'fitting' and epoxy and it has held for 4 years now.

 

[ndfan6464]

That's pretty much how it started for me.

I have used metal epoxy to repair a broken wheel guard. When I tempted to straighten out a bend/crack, the piece broke off. A little 'fitting' and epoxy and it has held for 4 years now.

When I get a chance to really look it over I'll see if I can do the same. My concern is getting it straight again do to it being pushed down and to the left. Looks like these are cast iron?

 

[torqueman2002]

Some early pre-Blocks are CI, later Blocks are cast aluminum.

See the 10th picture in the following link, for example of repair.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103220

 

[elguappo]

I love this thread, so glad I have 2 of these.

 

[torqueman2002]

I love this thread, so glad I have 2 of these.

Thanks.
You probably will really enjoy this thread also. --> let's see your craftsman block grinders
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157794

 

[EOC_Jason]

See now that sounds like a plan. I love all the suggestions. Keep them coming. First time ever owning my own grinder especially a block. So learning about them and their capabilities. Are nuts, bolts and screws hard to come by for these block grinders? I've looked at sears direct and they have some listed as available and some that are not. A lot of the screws, nuts are really rusted out and want to replace them

I would just take the screws off and go to your local big-box store. They will all be common SAE (no metric)...

As for that broken guard. It's *probably* cast aluminum. Is it bent permanently, or could it just be caught and if you fidget it might pop back flush?

As for the wheels, these are what I was talking about. I bought a couple took a while to come from china but for the price I wasn't complaining. They are a little stiffer compared to some 3M wheels, but at a fraction of the price I'll deal with it. Note they are 8" and 5/8" arbor, so they wouldn't fit in a guard anyhow, and you will have to shim it to get it centered. I just cut some pieces of notecard or other thick cardstock and wrap around the inside hole a couple times.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Abrasive-Co...for-Fine-Metal-Finishing-320-9P-/252777944824

 

[ndfan6464]

I would just take the screws off and go to your local big-box store. They will all be common SAE (no metric)...

As for that broken guard. It's *probably* cast aluminum. Is it bent permanently, or could it just be caught and if you fidget it might pop back flush?

As for the wheels, these are what I was talking about. I bought a couple took a while to come from china but for the price I wasn't complaining. They are a little stiffer compared to some 3M wheels, but at a fraction of the price I'll deal with it. Note they are 8" and 5/8" arbor, so they wouldn't fit in a guard anyhow, and you will have to shim it to get it centered. I just cut some pieces of notecard or other thick cardstock and wrap around the inside hole a couple times.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Abrasive-Co...for-Fine-Metal-Finishing-320-9P-/252777944824

Thanks for information. I'll look into the wheels. The ones that came with my damaged one look to be original. Not sure if they would be good or not. I am also assuming the silver ring, forgot the technical name, that is in the center can come off? I'll send pictures tonight when I get home

 

[ndfan6464]

As for that broken guard. It's *probably* cast aluminum. Is it bent permanently, or could it just be caught and if you fidget it might pop back

It's definitely cast aluminum. Did the old magnetic trick.lol.. it's definitely pushed down. Might try a little heat to see if I can move it back and then weld it back together. Always a way to fix something right? Even if it's bubble gum and Duc tape..lol

 

[EOC_Jason]

Before ever turning on I would definitely ring test those wheels. But to be honest I would just chuck them and get new ones and not risk it.

I'm assuming that model uses 7" wheels? You can find some decent 7x1x1 wheels on eBay. Norton is my first preference, they are usually 1" arbor but most come with plastic reducers. Camel/CGW (Camel Grinding Wheel?) seems to be a popular brand, I almost went with them and kind of wish I had...

I bought a set of H&M wheels because they were so cheap... Well, cheap was the key word there... They wobbled side-to-side like crazy, took a while of adjusting the arbors and shimming. Also the reducers they give you are not the width of the wheel, they are just thin one on each side and have a tendency to want to come out so you have to be super careful getting the wheel on. Also were egg shaped (not too bad). But the worst thing is they wear FAST... Every time I grind something even small, it makes a huge mess of abrasive dust everywhere.

 

[ndfan6464]

Before ever turning on I would definitely ring test those wheels. But to be honest I would just chuck them and get new ones and not risk it.

I'm assuming that model uses 7" wheels? You can find some decent 7x1x1 wheels on eBay. Norton is my first preference, they are usually 1" arbor but most come with plastic reducers. Camel/CGW (Camel Grinding Wheel?) seems to be a popular brand, I almost went with them and kind of wish I had...

I bought a set of H&M wheels because they were so cheap... Well, cheap was the key word there... They wobbled side-to-side like crazy, took a while of adjusting the arbors and shimming. Also the reducers they give you are not the width of the wheel, they are just thin one on each side and have a tendency to want to come out so you have to be super careful getting the wheel on. Also were egg shaped (not too bad). But the worst thing is they wear FAST... Every time I grind something even small, it makes a huge mess of abrasive dust everywhere.

Jason thanks brother for the major amount of information. All good stuff and stuff I needed to know.

I did the ring test on one and it sounded good but looking at them looks like someone did some aluminum grinding on them. But like you said to be safe I am just going to get new wheels. Mine takes 6" wheels I believe...I'll be hopefully tearing it down this weekend if I finish my Craftsman Drill press restoration. Can't wait to work on the grinder. It's my very first one I've ever owned so can't wait to learn about it.. so I'll definitely be showing pictures and asking questions if that's OK?

 

[ndfan6464]

So here is what I am working with. It's model 397.19391 1/3 H.P. going to take it apart, clean and repaint. Please let me know if you see any issues just off these or suggestions. I am open to all. Will post the wheels that came with.

 

[ndfan6464]

One of the 6" x 3/4" wheels. They are Sears Craftsman Brand

 

[ndfan6464]

So what's the best way to take the two sides off? I've got the three retaining rods out.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Not 100% sure about splitting it open. There is a thread *somewhere* where a person took theirs completely apart. I *think* there is a c-clip somewhere on the shaft too, maybe just for the bearings.

Didn't realize yours is 1/3hp, I thought it was 1/2... So the 6" wheels make sense.

To clean off aluminum you would need a star type dressing wheel. But also those wheels would need blotters, you can just use cardboard from like a cereal box or a pack of drinks. You don't want to clamp directly on the bare stone.

 

[ndfan6464]

Not 100% sure about splitting it open. There is a thread *somewhere* where a person took theirs completely apart. I *think* there is a c-clip somewhere on the shaft too, maybe just for the bearings.

Didn't realize yours is 1/3hp, I thought it was 1/2... So the 6" wheels make sense.

To clean off aluminum you would need a star type dressing wheel. But also those wheels would need blotters, you can just use cardboard from like a cereal box or a pack of drinks. You don't want to clamp directly on the bare stone.

Yeah I know mines not a power house like all your guys. Lol. Thanks for the information on how to clean the wheels. What do you mean "need blotters"?

I've been looking for information on how to split them. Once I do I'll share..

 

[EOC_Jason]

I didn't mean anything negative by the 1/3HP, that's still plenty. Those old CMan's have good torque, you can't compare yours to a modern cheap 1/3HP grinder they are in two different leagues.

Blotters are the paper disc that's glued on the sides, usually had the grit & brand and all that stuff. It's called a blotter because they used to be "Blotter Paper". It just acts as a cushion and prevents metal to stone contact.

Check the various threads about the block grinders here, they all link to each other (or just do a google search). It's a lot of reading but I swear it's buried somewhere here. lol

 

[87quest]

So what's the best way to take the two sides off? I've got the three retaining rods out.

If you got the three long screws out it is just a tight tolerance. I used a rubber mallet and an ever so slight lateral twist to release the two halves of mine. You have to overcome the bearing fit on one side to release the side covers.

I'm sure someone fancier than me will give you the secret magic formula though. Haha

quest

 

[ndfan6464]

I didn't mean anything negative by the 1/3HP, that's still plenty. Those old CMan's have good torque, you can't compare yours to a modern cheap 1/3HP grinder they are in two different leagues.

Blotters are the paper disc that's glued on the sides, usually had the grit & brand and all that stuff. It's called a blotter because they used to be "Blotter Paper". It just acts as a cushion and prevents metal to stone contact.

Check the various threads about the block grinders here, they all link to each other (or just do a google search). It's a lot of reading but I swear it's buried somewhere here. lol

No negative vibe or take buddy so your good...Man you guys never stop amazing me with the amount of knowledge you have. Plus willing to share that information and putting up with noobs like me is asking a ton of questions is awesome and much appreciated.

I found a thread by torqueman who took his completely apart so hopefully he'll see my post and give me a clue on how to pull the sides from the bearings. Untill then the hunt continues

 

[ndfan6464]

If you got the three long screws out it is just a tight tolerance. I used a rubber mallet and an ever so slight lateral twist to release the two halves of mine. You have to overcome the bearing fit on one side to release the side covers.

I'm sure someone fancier than me will give you the secret magic formula though. Haha

quest

That's good information thank you. I had a feeling that's what I could do but rather ask first before I start banging on things.. I'll give that shot.. thanks buddy

 

[torqueman2002]

All good information.

I'd toss those stones, no matter if they pass a 'ring test' or not.

Even if they didn't look like they'd been used to grind wood and aluminum, the rusty flanges are a sure sign they have been in a 'wet' environment. That can degrade the stone's binding material to the point where they can shatter with explosive and deadly force.

For more information on Blocks, see the first few posts in this thread.

Also, here's a thread about Block grinder restorations.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325578

I hope this helps.

 

[ndfan6464]

All good information.

I'd toss those stones, no matter if they pass a 'ring test' or not.

Even if they didn't look like they'd been used to grind wood and aluminum, the rusty flanges are a sure sign they have been in a 'wet' environment. That can degrade the stone's binding material to the point where they can shatter with explosive and deadly force.

For more information on Blocks, see the first few posts in this thread.

Also, here's a thread about Block grinder restorations.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325578

I hope this helps.

I totally agree about the stones and was planning on getting new ones and just keeping these around just to have but NOT to use.

I think I've read every post on this thread about a dozen times. Everytime I pick up something new it's awesome. I in fact just got done reading g the thread you just shared... Only thing I haven't found was getting the two halves apart besides what 87quest said he did. Do you have any other suggestions on how to get them off the bearings? I didn't see any retaining rings around the bearings.

 

[torqueman2002]

The 3/4 & 1-HP Blocks do have 'E' or 'C' clips on the 5/8" arbors, just outboard of the bearings. IIRC all 1/4, 1/3, and 1/2 do not use the clips on their 1/2" arbors.

To 'split' the LH and RH End Frames

• Remove the Center Band, after removing the switch, and disconnecting the electrical connectors to the lamp (if equipped)
• Remove the LH and RH Wheel Guard Covers, Arbor Nuts, Stones, Flanges
• Remove the LH and RH Inner Wheel Guards
• Remove the 3 long through bolts

The bearings are housed/seated in the End Frames and the arbor shaft ends. Use you favorite penetrating oil, I use Kroil, to lightly lube the bearing/arbor/End Frame housing.

Caution: Ensure the parts don't get away from you.
I've had the End Frames simply separate from the arbor shaft with a slight twisting/pulling motion.

Some times the bearings will stay with the arbor, some times they will stay with the End Frames.

Some times they wont want to move. If this happens -

• Check the arbor shaft for nicks, scratches, burrs, .... Remove them by judiciously using very fine file, emory cloth, ....

Note: replace the arbor shaft nuts to protect the ends/threads of the shaft.

• Use a soft faced hammer to gently persuade the End Frames from the arbor assembly.

CM Block Grinder bearing replacement - 3 methods
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5722705#post5722705

Craftsman 1/3-HP Round-top Block Grinder m-397.19580, restore
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5743463#post5743463

I hope this answers your questions.

Feel free to PM me and/or post your questions.

 

[ndfan6464]

The 3/4 & 1-HP Blocks do have 'E' or 'C' clips on the 5/8" arbors, just outboard of the bearings. IIRC all 1/4, 1/3, and 1/2 do not use the clips on their 1/2" arbors.

To 'split' the LH and RH End Frames

• Remove the Center Band, after removing the switch, and disconnecting the electrical connectors to the lamp (if equipped)
• Remove the LH and RH Wheel Guard Covers, Arbor Nuts, Stones, Flanges
• Remove the LH and RH Inner Wheel Guards
• Remove the 3 long through bolts

The bearings are housed/seated in the End Frames and the arbor shaft ends. Use you favorite penetrating oil, I use Kroil, to lightly lube the bearing/arbor/End Frame housing.

Caution: Ensure the parts don't get away from you.
I've had the End Frames simply separate from the arbor shaft with a slight twisting/pulling motion.

Some times the bearings will stay with the arbor, some times they will stay with the End Frames.

Some times they wont want to move. If this happens -

• Check the arbor shaft for nicks, scratches, burrs, .... Remove them by judiciously using very fine file, emory cloth, ....

Note: replace the arbor shaft nuts to protect the ends/threads of the shaft.

• Use a soft faced hammer to gently persuade the End Frames from the arbor assembly.

CM Block Grinder bearing replacement - 3 methods
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5722705#post5722705

Craftsman 1/3-HP Round-top Block Grinder m-397.19580, restore
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5743463#post5743463

I hope this answers your questions.

Feel free to PM me and/or post your questions.

WHOLLY smokes that's some serious knowledge. Thank you for the Information. Truly really appreciate yours and everyone else putting up with me and my noob question. The willingness to answer them on top of that. Really means a lot.

I'll be tackling this part tomorrow. If your all OK with it I'll post as I go. I don't want to hijack your thread torqueman. Just let me know and I won't..

 

[EOC_Jason]

Post it up, the more info the better. Not many people tear their blocks completely apart!