The VISES of Garage Journal

[deerhunter496]

How do I get to that thread?

 

[KMScott]

G-Man, yep I agree with you that the painted vises get knocked down some here, some do not like vises getting all spiffed up. When these vises were sold they were not coated in linseed oil but painted. I have vises that have casted in jaws that are pretty shot. Here is a Reed 103R that I cut out the very hard jaws and built a set of hard replaceable jaws that are similar to Starrett's. I like taking a vise like this and try hard to make it as new as I can. The replaced handle and added alum/bronze washer tucked inside the spindle area is a nice way to not have metal to metal. I am not sold on the thrust bearings other uses. Clamping a little heavy could break the small needle bearings and dent the thin hard washer provided if the casting is rough.

 

[KMScott]

Here is a Hollands 13 with 3" jaws like the Reed but built much different. It is larger then the Reed 103R and heavier. I added a new handle and a alum/bronze washer as well. Replaced the rear nut pin with a larger diameter one and tightened the backlash to where I like them at 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock. This one to is ready to get back to work with the new replaceable jaws like the Reed.

 

[BrettJ74]

That little Hollands is beautiful! Everything I have seen you do is extremely impressive. [emoji106] [emoji482]

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[Private Lugnutz]

Lug: looks like we helped enough.

Sorry for that mysterious delete, Drives. Totally different vise. Nothing special, but I knew I could get it at an uninformed price, and I was trying to get some info on it while I was at the flea market before deciding to cart it home. All good. Thanks.

 

[Outlawmws]

How do I get to that thread?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6545181#post6545181

 

[thedannyc]

Reading and looking a long time, but first post. Bought 2 bullets. $ 110
Some rough wear, but smooth. 6/71 date and 1/71 date from the local swap meet. One swivel, one not. 2.5 inch jaws.

 

[Colin Len]

Hopefully Carla or KMScott will see this and chime in....maybe post it over to the vise repair thread?

I've seen people try to use a MIG on castings like this, but I wasn't impressed with the results. It might have been the operator, but I think somewhat it would be the wire isn't really that compatible with ductile iron.

I've had really good results lately TIG welding Wilton base parts using Inconel rod based upon a suggestion by KMScott (he was kind enough to send me some filler rod when I ordered some parts). It's nickel-based, and that's probably why it works so well with cast parts.

The problem with the break on yours is that it's the pad that takes virtually all of the load when you tighten the swivel lock, so it's got to be pretty strong.

I wonder if you could weld it as best as possible the way it is, and then weld a support across the crack on either side of the bolt hole? Something like a 1/4" wide strip that you could put a bead all the way around would help strengthen things. It wouldn't be pretty, but it would be hidden in use.

Colin: if you maybe put up a post in the Wanted section and or Classifieds here that you might want to trade for a Wilton C0, C1, C2 and you'd pay cash to make up the difference of the value maybe some member might need a small Wilton. not saying it's worth $200 without a swivel, but it's still a good vise without one and it's worth something as is.

if you only have room for one vise i kind doubt a 3 inch bullet would be my ONLY VISE.

good luck

Colin. Mig isn't the best for something with that much stress on it. not with ordinary wire anyway....

I would attack that one like this:

• Clamp the broken bit in place (looks to be a clean break)
• Tap drill it for the largest countersunk screw to think you can get away with on each side.
• After the tap drilling, tap the main piece.
• Clearance drill the small part, then countersink it so the head is less than flush.
• Now you can secure the bit for the next operations, but first, grind the "Vee" you need - fairly deep. Assemble it with good quality screws.
• I would braise, if you have access the inconel is a better choice, or you could get some Nirod for arc welding and use that with TIG....
• PREHEAT the assembly.
• Weld/Braise...
• Cool slowly. The old school trick is bury it in hot sand (bucket of dry sand on a Coleman stove works...) You can also leave it in an oven and slowly reduce the heat before turning it off and letting it finish cooling with the door closed.
• After cooling, re-tighten the screws, as I'd bet they got loose...

Thank you all VERY much for the info - this is exactly why I love this place! I'm glad I decided to ask instead of just breaking out the welder. And I apologize I didn't post this in the repair thread - I did not know there was a separate thread for that. My bad.

I might just give Drivesitfar's advice on selling/trading it a try when I get it cleaned up a bit and take some pics. I just disassembled it this evening and stripped the paint but it could use some rust removal as well. Unfortunately I don't have the equipment to handle this repair in the way that is being suggested and I'm even shorter on time so I may need to leave this to another member whos' more fit for the job. But on the positive side this gives me an excuse to ditch it in favor of one that, as Drivesitar mentioned, will likely suit my needs better. I had been thinking this for a while but figured it'd be neat to keep the one that came with my first house.

 

[royce]

Here is a Hollands 13 with 3" jaws like the Reed but built much different. It is larger then the Reed 103R and heavier. I added a new handle and a alum/bronze washer as well. Replaced the rear nut pin with a larger diameter one and tightened the backlash to where I like them at 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock. This one to is ready to get back to work with the new replaceable jaws like the Reed.

My, My, that is plum pretty.
Royce

 

[is9582]

Hello All,

I have an old Wilton Baby Bullet with a date of 11- 48 and would really appreciate some expert opinions, if possible. I didn't specify the model of my vise, as I can't seem to find any, like 820 or 920 since mine has 2" jaws. I dug into the research before buying, but didn't notice this stamping wasn't there until it was in my possession. I even watched Ox Tools youtube series where they built a 2" version, based on an historical version, and the small details they delved into, all seem in order. I've seen relic'd pieces of gear before, and this is either the best fake job, or it is real (as I believe) and I'm just not aware of a different marking scheme. It works wonderfully, so it is more an education endeavor than me thinking to jettison it, just to be clear.

Cheers to all in advance,

Lee Laird

 

[sandman54]

Hey Master Scott, u know one of these days i believe u are going to fool around and get the hang of refurbishing these old vises!!! Sandman

 

[drivesitfar]

Laird: i'd think your Baby Bullet is a real Wilton cause it's got the date stamp on the slide and the Chicago in the casting. mine doesn't have a # on it either and i have 2 date stamps on my slide for some reason in 1946 & 1947. i'm not sure when they started putting in the #'s, but maybe you can check out the Wilton Date stamp thread and see for yourself while you are posting your Wilton with it's date stamp. here's the link:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269079&highlight=wilton+date+stamp

nice find and also welcome to Garage Journal and our forum.

 

[eddieK]

Eddie, I remember back when I was racing Stock Cars and was always pulling tie rods ends off and the quickest way was a shock treatment by hitting the side of the female portion of the 7 degree tapered knuckle joints and they just fell off. So that being said you can not do the same with a vise since vises are so soft and not made from nodular Iron which I believe the drag linkage was made from and could handle the hammer hits. Shocking the pin, heating causing it to grow that will break the rust seal is the best way I found to remove tapered pins. I make replacement pins out of 300 series SS which is very soft steel and really not a good choice except for the corrosion resistance but should not deform like a aluminum pin would. Good luck.

Thanks Kevin...the main screw had to be freed up first...after a 24 hr "cook" it finally came free, then low and behold I discovered that the swivel base screw hole lined up with the swivel jaw pin - drift and hammer SWEET.

Now it is cooking more to help loosen the swivel pin...I use heat to separate dissimilar metal connections at (replacing gas valves and manifolds on furnaces) so I will try sometime later.

 

[eddieK]

Reading and looking a long time, but first post. Bought 2 bullets. $ 110
Some rough wear, but smooth. 6/71 date and 1/71 date from the local swap meet. One swivel, one not. 2.5 inch jaws.

Great finds!

 

[KMScott]

Eddie good luck on your swivel pin, after the discussion of pin removal I went around my shop and grabbed my Copper and Bronze bars that I have used for many years instead of hammers. I use these guys on vises just about everyday. These are what I use for a shock treatment when taking a vise apart. They still will damage cast but not steel.

brettjull, Royce and Sandman thanks for your comments. Business is slow so time to step it up on vise repair / restore and get some of this iron back to work again. I have several cast jaw vises that are un usable and need fixing.

 

[Locker537]

drivesitfar: Yes, Reed! I believe it has 3.5 inch jaws and weighs ~20 lbs. I'll get some more pictures.

 

[deerhunter496]

Thank you

 

[gman007]

Is there an organization for protection of vises from neglect, abuse and endangerment? If not there needs to be one (Lord knows that there is one for every other cause, why not abused and endangered vises?).

Here is a prime example: a 100 years old beautiful CP 205 vise with holes drilled into it everywhere. The vise seems to be in fair shape. It seems jaw inserts are missing and three of the visible holes might be the jaw insert pin holes (the fourth pin hole is not visible). Also missing is the swivel arm. May be someone tried jury rigging some kind of jaw inserts (there are even horizontal holes drilled into the surface of the jaws) but there seems to be holes every which way too.

 

[eddieK]

Is there an organization for protection of vises from neglect, abuse and endangerment? If not there needs to be one (Lord knows that there is one for every other cause, why not abused and endangered vises?).

Here is a prime example: a 100 years old beautiful CP 205 vise with holes drilled into it everywhere. The vise seems to be in fair shape. It seems jaw inserts are missing and three of the visible holes might be the jaw insert pin holes (the fourth pin hole is not visible). Also missing is the swivel arm. May be someone tried jury rigging some kind of jaw inserts (there are even horizontal holes drilled into the surface of the jaws) but there seems to be holes every which way too.

Let me at 'em! That is ridiculous

 

[FMC1959]

Couple new ones
View media item 712773" Dohm Wilson (well this only has Wilson on the tag) rotating multi use jaw, quick release.
£31.50 delivered

View media item 712764 1/2" Paramo quick release, good order, just needs a clean and oiling really, local pickup, £15
also got a dozen good, mostly British made files for a £ a piece.

Cool vises, I especially like the look of that paramo, distinct look

Finished up this little Wilton C0, double pin today. I made new pins out of stainless so they wouldn't get rusty. I really like how it turned out. I didn't bother with new jaws, a new handle, or even running the handle on the belt sander as that just seems to make them rust worse. I tried to keep my cost and time down on it so this could be a user for somebody, not a museum piece.

I think the last one I saw like this on eBay went for something crazy like $625...yikes!

That a very nice restore, but on top of that, I just love the look of dual pin C0. The machinists vise are great vise, but the next pic of the 500S looks so bland compared to the character of the C0......nice vise.

 

[G-ManBart]

Reading and looking a long time, but first post. Bought 2 bullets. $ 110
Some rough wear, but smooth. 6/71 date and 1/71 date from the local swap meet. One swivel, one not. 2.5 inch jaws.

Nice score!

 

[G-ManBart]

That a very nice restore, but on top of that, I just love the look of dual pin C0. The machinists vise are great vise, but the next pic of the 500S looks so bland compared to the character of the C0......nice vise.

Thanks...I just wanted to make it into a really nice user for someone, but I have to admit, I really like the look of the double-pin combination vises!

I'm finishing up a Chicago era (1951) double-pin C1 that is going to be pretty darned nice, and I can't wait to see it at the end

 

[Rileysan]

If anyone is looking for a project, here's one that will challenge even the best of you ...

Columbian 606 listed in CL here in Portland.

- Dynamic jaw broken and held in place with steel bar bent in an 'L' shape and screws.
- Slide shortened SIGNIFICANTLY
- Both jaws have been replaced with something home-made and brazed in place.
- Missing the swivel base

And that's just what I can see in the ads pictures.

Yours for only $200!



Brian

https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/tls/6172230721.html

 

[KMScott]

Nice job on those pins G-man. the C series Wiltons are nice looking Wiltons.

Rileysan, just amazing how much work that Columbian would take. Think I'll pass. Pretty funny.

 

[tombell572]

I've been looking for a fairly heavy vise with minimum 4" jaw width and swivel jaw. I noticed a guy here on Long Island advertising vises on Craigslist and gave him a call. He didn't have what I wanted but said he knew a guy in Massachusetts who might and passed along his phone number. Turns out the guy is our own Joe Striper and although I always read his posts I didn't realize he sold vises in addition to collecting them. Further, he's in Agawam where my son who lives in Holyoke works as a firefighter. We settled on a Prentiss Model 20 with 4 1/2" jaw width and swivel jaw. Joe told me the swivel pin had been replaced by a bolt that seemed to be jammed in place--nothing i couldn't deal with. Joe was kind enough to drop the vise off at Michael's firehouse. I was at Michael's last weekend and picked up the vise--definitely a nice one.

One question: would anyone know the approximate shape of the jaw swivel pin or perhaps have a picture. I'll be making a new one and would like to have it as correct as possible.

Tom B

 

[Outlawmws]

Brian that one is definitely fixable! You start with a sand mold and a smelter...

 

[KMScott]

One question: would anyone know the approximate shape of the jaw swivel pin or perhaps have a picture. I'll be making a new one and would like to have it as correct as possible.

Tom B

Tom, watch out for Joe, he'll take advantage of ya. Here is a drawing I use for making Prentiss Pins. Basically 6 degrees included or 3 degrees per side. Check your pin hole diameters and see if they match my drawing. Good luck

 

[GETRIDAONE]

I just thought I had a grease covered vise with a spray bomb paint job. After the first round of cleaning the problem showed up
A nice brazing job but it has been broken just the same. I'll finish cleaning it and put it back together and move on to the next one.

 

[tombell572]

KM--thanks, that's perfect! I haven't extracted the bolt yet but have been giving it a daily shot of Kroil. I'm a little hesitant to really try and wring it out, not knowing how much force the vise casting can take. I have some brass drops that I use as drifts similar to your copper and may try heat and shock if the Kroil doesn't loosen things up. If I need to, there's enough space between the underside of the bolt head and the vise to cut the head off and then drill the bolt.

Thanks again for the dwg.

Tom B.

 

[KMScott]

I just thought I had a grease covered vise with a spray bomb paint job. After the first round of cleaning the problem showed up
A nice brazing job but it has been broken just the same. I'll finish cleaning it and put it back together and move on to the next one.

I hate that, I started on a Reed103R just like the one I finished a couple days ago and it was brazed the same as yours. That one snuck by me on a e-bay purchase. Got a free Reed vise for anyone visiting.

KM--thanks, that's perfect! I haven't extracted the bolt yet but have been giving it a daily shot of Kroil. I'm a little hesitant to really try and wring it out, not knowing how much force the vise casting can take. I have some brass drops that I use as drifts similar to your copper and may try heat and shock if the Kroil doesn't loosen things up. If I need to, there's enough space between the underside of the bolt head and the vise to cut the head off and then drill the bolt.

Thanks again for the dwg.

Tom B.

Tom, another way that I pull stuck swivel pins is using a slide hammer, the pic shows one I use that I weld to the top of pins after drilling a 1/4 hole all the way through ( if replacing the swivel pin) drilling that hole seems to relieve some pressure or the heat from drilling breaks the seal. I also use the side hammer set up to pull jaw pins like the ones used on Columbian jaws. The shock of the slide hammer sure pulls out the jaw pins easy.

 

[Thrumcap]

Hi all,

Here's an old gizmo of a vise! Anyone seen one of this vintage.



Thrumcap

 

[tombell572]

Thanks again, KM. The OD of the bold is 5/8=.625. You show an OD of .650 on the dwg. so my guess is that the bolt has been driven down into the tapered hole and become jammed. I like the slide hammer approach--I'm not a welder but there's plenty of meat to drill and tap the bolt for a piece of all-thread. An extractor may work also.

Tom B.

 

[autopts]

Here is a Hollands 13 with 3" jaws like the Reed but built much different. It is larger then the Reed 103R and heavier. I added a new handle and a alum/bronze washer as well. Replaced the rear nut pin with a larger diameter one and tightened the backlash to where I like them at 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock. This one to is ready to get back to work with the new replaceable jaws like the Reed.

Great restores Kevin, all your projects are flawless. For some that didn't know, Hollands dated some f their vises and they stamped the year right on the bottom of the Dynamic. Not all but a few.

 

[eddieK]

KM--thanks, that's perfect! I haven't extracted the bolt yet but have been giving it a daily shot of Kroil. I'm a little hesitant to really try and wring it out, not knowing how much force the vise casting can take. I have some brass drops that I use as drifts similar to your copper and may try heat and shock if the Kroil doesn't loosen things up. If I need to, there's enough space between the underside of the bolt head and the vise to cut the head off and then drill the bolt.

Thanks again for the dwg.

Tom B.

I just removed the swivel pin on my 19 1/2 Prentiss.

One I removed the main nut I found the base center bolt hole lined up with it and just used a drift after the original soak in mineral oil - a lot of Kroil- and a cook in an electrolysis tank, then knocked it right out.



This entire vise was frozen solid, the adjustable jaw, the slide, the main nut, the base and both pins...took three weeks of soaking and heating and kroil. splintered up some great hard wood kindling in the process.

I might as well add that I also found a fatal flaw, the dynamic braze was done well enough to be hidden under the paint. Looks similar to the one pictured above in getridaone's post.



I'm going to finish this one, now that I'm this deep into it - I am going to give it to my son as he loves Prentiss Vises as much as I do. If it fails we'll just find him another. I must admit I am very impressed by the brazing work.

 

[Outlawmws]

Hi all,

Here's an old gizmo of a vise! Anyone seen one of this vintage.



Thrumcap

Is it a vise, or is it a forming tool?

 

[eddieK]

Great restores Kevin, all your projects are flawless. For some that didn't know, Hollands dated some f their vises and they stamped the year right on the bottom of the Dynamic. Not all but a few.

Kevin -

You are a master craftsman.

 

[TinkTinkForge]

Some recent ones. Erie #102 Stephens 5" jaws prentiss ? 2" jaws athol #614 3" jaws

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[eddieK]

Some recent ones. Erie #102 Stephens 5" jaws prentiss ? 2" jaws athol #614 3" jaws

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That Stephens is um...interesting...

 

[TinkTinkForge]

That Stephens is um...interesting...

Are you referring to the handle being broken?


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[eddieK]

Are you referring to the handle being broken?


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No, honestly didn't notice that. I'm speaking of the design and the handle on the side...I like unique.