You were correct....I edited my post.
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
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You were correct....I edited my post.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I missed Outlaw's post until you pointed it out.
Breakage is possible, but highly unlikely in my opinion. The support is a cruciform pattern and cast with the body of the vise. It would have to break real clean (again, unlikely) or be cleaned up snug after breaking off ugly. I lean toward a design mod, but I'm less sure if the vises without the support are earlier or later. I can see it going both ways. I can see Parker adding it due to instability in the moving jaw. I can also see Parker deeming it unnecessary with improvements in the mechanism, or metallurgy or design of the vise itself. Plenty of other vises in the same era (on the same ad page, in fact) didn't need a support for the moving jaw/slide, right? Anyway, thanks for commenting. These are the little quandaries that keep me curious.
EDIT: Perhaps if dodge610 and gam007 post photos of the bottom of their vises it might help.
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zoomieport
Well-known member
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If you find one, make sure the Dynamic Jaw support isn't broken off. Almost al I've seen have it missing.
AntiqueVises
Well-known member
man you are making me want to buy it now lol
how can i tell if it's a 400n or 400s? ill ask the seller for a pic
That table top is a good 4+ inches thick.
AngryBeaver
Well-known member
gman007
Well-known member
Lugz
The vise is not mine but rather the photos that I posted are from a seller's posting. I was keeping an eye on the price (hoping it would drop) and was interested in buying the vise but not at the current asking price.
In any case I found a photo of the bottom of the vise which I have attached. Now that you have raised the question regarding the support, upon closer look it seems that the support might have been broken off and someone did clean up job.
To start with the vise ears are only half attached to base of static jaw and kind of are half hung in the air on each side of the draw bar. It makes no sense that the bottom of the static jaw would not at very least extend (if not beyond) to the end of the ears to both fully support the ears as well as the draw bar. Also on the side that is lying on floor the ear itself seems to be missing a small chunk from its underside.
It looks like both FMC and you were on the money regarding the breakage!
007
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Can anyone id this Wilton C3 as to what the weight might be? The figure of 200 lbs often gets mentioned with the C3. The seller weighed this one and said it weighs 140 lbs. I have seen the newer ones and their actual weight seems to be an honest 200 lbs. This one is missing the swivel base and one pipe jaw, but that would account for less than 10? lbs. Could the seller be mistaken as to the weight or did they actually make the C3 vise over the years with a 50 pound difference in weight? Thanks.
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Rileysan
Well-known member
The base of these weighs quite a lot. I don't know if it weighs 60 lbs, but I wouldn't be surprised!
Brian
vintage nut
Well-known member
The swivel bases I've seen on 6"vises are in the 30-50# range
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I just weighed a complete swivel base assembly for a Wilton 400/450/500 and it weighed 20lbs. The base for a C3/600/800 is heavier, but not three times heavier. In fact, I weighed the outer ring from a 600S (same as a C3) and it was under 10lbs.
I suspect the seller only got a ballpark measurement on the C3 in the picture.
My c3 is now finished thanks to kmscott for the custom handle jaws and snap on extreme green. Now it's ready to pass the casino test. (Pop some eyes out your head)
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jakemac
Well-known member
The recipe is simple :
One plastic bucket, tote, or container of appropriate size.
Enough undiluted Simple Green to cover the object(s).
A cover helps prevent evaporation and contamination.
Time and patience.
Depending on the paint/grease/coating, it can take a few hours or up to a week of soaking to remove the paint. Check it occasionally. Scrub the object with a nylon brush to remove any loose paint and let the SG get into the next layer.
When done, filter the SG to remove any solid waste. Then re-bottle it to reuse on the next project. With filtering, your supply should be good for years, with the occasional new supply to refresh and make up for spillage and evaporation.
The same method works for EvapoRust as well.
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thanks jake!
joe.striper
Well-known member
I second that. I have a complete one, with pipe jaws, and a broken jaw support. these were made 5 miles from me in Westfield MA.
i did see one locally a few years ago that was intact but it had a welded crack on the body so I passed.
my buddy has a perfect one. I never cared enough to try and buy it, but if anyone here has to have one I will work to get it for you. just PM me.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Credit goes to FMC1959 and Outlaw. I was actually in the doubtful camp. Still trying to imagine the circumstances and force necessary to break the sliding jaw support off, which I can only attribute to extraordinary abuse, but perhaps there is a structural weakness in the design that ordinary use would expose. Coincidentally, note that the H.B. Smith vise that zoomieport just found also has a broken off support, and autopts warns that it's very common for H.B. Smith vises. Given all of the above, I am convinced that the supports on dodge610's and your prospective Parker No. 34 were, indeed, broken off.
Here is a photo of the support from the bottom, if you're interested in seeing what it's supposed to look like.
View media item 73077
Dodge610, I'm very curious to see what the patent number is on the garter of your Parker No. 34. I can make out a few of the numbers, but none of them seem to match up with the Parker patent numbers listed on DATAMP.
454ragtop
Well-known member
Just curious if any one has any information on Phoenix watch makers vises. I've seen more then a few on eBay but not too many sales ads or old literature. It seems like 1in or so is the most common model. Here is a picture of a 1in jaw for reference not my picture.
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Rusty65, some pics of my Colton patent vises here https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6012458#post6012458 I've added a couple more since then. The small one that mounts with 2 screws under the jaws I've had for at least 35 years, thought it was so cool when I found it at a swap meet. Really like the covered screw design of such a vintage vise. I think someone posted a catalog page pic a while back, can't remember who. Note too, "Phoenix" refers to Phoenix NY, not AZ. HTH
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Mister J
Member
Thank you FMC, that's all I needed, a little motivation. I went to see it earlier today and you were right, once I saw it I had to take it home. I had never seen a "real" 6 inch vise before I saw this one today.
Overall it looks pretty good. Not quite as clean as the pictures in the ad made it look but not bad at all as far as I can tell. I haven't taken it apart yet but mechanically it seems to work fine. It's tight and the jaws line up perfectly. Some scrapes and dings on the jaws and on the body behind the jaws, slide has just a few small dings. The handle is straight.
Only thing that worries me a bit is those pins. They obviously are not original and I know they will give me a hard time coming out, and who knows what I'll find once they are out? If somebody could link me to a thread or something where someone takes apart/puts back together one of these it would be greatly appreciated.
I ended up giving the guy $200. I thought it was a bit much but finding one of these in Ottawa is like finding a leprechaun riding a unicorn, so I had to have it. If I passed it up I would never forget and I would never forgive myself. Even in the background it makes the Record No 6 look kinda dinky.
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j.t.d.
Well-known member
140 lbs is consistent with a 600n with no swivel. I don't see the pipe jaw divot of the c3 in your pic.either
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zoomieport
Well-known member
It's a C-3 for sure, I just can't tell if it's got the spring steal clamps or pins, but the height of the jaw towers is a dead give a way, IMO....
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Oregon rock crusher
Well-known member
I wouldn't mess with those pins unless you really need to Mister J. I have a Parker of similar vintage and it uses pins in the same location to hold the jaws on too. I like the look of them myself. Ed.
The pipe jaw cutout is there....not easy to see, but it's there. It's definitely a C3. For some reason the dynamic jaw support and static jaw supports have different profiles underneath the jaw....that's another dead giveaway.
Again, I have no patience.
I brush on paint stripper, wait 10 minutes, and blow the paint and grease off with my pressure washer. Bare metal in no time. Blow the bulk of the water off with my gas leaf blower, let it sit in the sun or heat it with a torch to dry it, and I'm good to go..
Works for me.
redvalkyrie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2006
- Messages
- 423
Ditto. When I powder coat I follow the same process even using a map gas torch. Then I bake the part in the oven for at least an hour to let it outgas--especially important on aluminum parts that have been in contact with oil. Bam. Ready to paint or powder coat.
You can use paint stripper from a hardware store or aircraft stripper from an autoparts store. If you plan to do bulk there is an industrial grade stripper--off the top of my head I want to say it's called Green 88-- comes in five gallon buckets. Works great and runs about $80. I highly recommend NOT wearing gloves when you apply it. It gets on the gloves and immediately reacts causing serious pain. Use bare hands and when you get some on you it won't burn nearly as bad and you can spray some simple green on your hands or wash with water. Seems counter-intuitive but it works well for me.
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AngryBeaver
Well-known member
Saw an older C3 at a arcelormittal steel plant yesterday. I had no idea how huge these things really were. Most pictures I've seen make them look not so large. That's a full size coffee can for reference.
Agreed.. I saw my first in person a few days ago. Pictures don't do them justice.
gman007
Well-known member
Looks like you were at the land of giants! Not only the C3 is huge but also that "little" grinder in the back ground seems to be almost twice as wide as the steel drum that is next to it!
By the way that is not a coffee can but rather it is merely the Giant's espresso cup.
gman007
Well-known member
Rob
May be we should call you the Henry Ford of vise of world for inventing the first industrial scale vise restoration assembly line. But the down side of this title is that (should you accept the title) from now on you have to paint all your vises black
.007
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Rob
May be we should call you the Henry Ford of vise of world for inventing the first industrial scale vise restoration assembly line. But the down side of this title is that (should you accept the title) from now on you have to paint all your vises black
007
Ha..I'm knocking out vises with about a one day turn around. Strip them down (paint remover, wire brush, sand paper), paint, bake in the oven for a few hours on day one. Remove from oven, sit over night, and reassemble on day two (which is actually usually within 24 hours of starting the day before
).Piece of cake!
RI 594 baking in the oven now. I love the smell of vises in the morning.
Best,
Rob
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Ha..I'm knocking out vises with about a one day turn around. Strip them down (paint remover, wire brush, sand paper), paint, bake in the oven for a few hours on day one. Remove from oven, sit over night, and reassemble on day two (which is actually usually within 24 hours of starting the day before
Piece of cake!
RI 594 baking in the oven now. I love the smell of vises in the morning.
Best,
Rob
Do you use an oven in your kitchen or do you have one for vises separate in the garage ? Also what temp and for how long ?
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Oh, oven in the kitchen. The family loves it. Nothing scientific on the temperature. I roast them at about 185° for three or four hours. Shut the oven off and leave them in there for a few more hours, and then take them out to sit overnight.
Today I am cooking at 225°. Just messing around with different temperatures but I really don't think it makes a difference in the ranges that I am dabbling with.
I like my vises well done.
Today I am cooking at 225°. Just messing around with different temperatures but I really don't think it makes a difference in the ranges that I am dabbling with.
I like my vises well done.
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AngryBeaver
Well-known member
How long does the rustoleum hammered stuff with two light coats and a coat of clear take to dry? Had mine baking in the sun for 10 hours yesterday and it was still soft when I set it on the base.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
It took me a week of sun drying to get past soft with a tool box in the summer sun. Hammered goes on thick, and with clear on top is going to be still slower...
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Please tell me you are not baking anything except bare steel in the oven you prepare food in? No chemicals? (drying paint, powder coating etc...)
mlisac
Well-known member
just saw this vise online, auction ends about 7:30 CST tonight. Interesting looking slide:
https://www.equip-bid.com/auction/2845/item/389
https://www.equip-bid.com/auction/2845/item/389
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That's made by Illinois iron and bolt company. That's the second one I've seen besides the one I own. Just a very well put together vise if you ask me. The art deco styling is what makes it unique. Here is a picture of mine.
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mlisac
Well-known member
That's made by Illinois iron and bolt company. That's the second one I've seen besides the one I own. Just a very well put together vise if you ask me. The art deco styling is what makes it unique. Here is a picture of mine.
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That's a nice vise you have there. I saw the one online and thought it would look great with a two-tone paint job with gold accent pinstriping, kind of like an old steam locomotive.
MissileBear
Well-known member
Finished the Wilton 350S today. Without a doubt, this is my least favorite of any vise I've ever restored.
It's a sharp looking vise all cleaned up, but if you look closely at the pictures you can see how sloppy & rough the castings are - the base looks like it was cast in fine gravel rather than sand. The casting halves were poorly lined up, machined surfaces are rough and uneven, and the guy that did the finish grinding appears to have been in a hurry. I've already talked about the pins on this vise....man, what a real disappointment. It's worse than the Union Parker I restored a while back.
Anyways, pictures before I throw this one up on ePrey.
It's a sharp looking vise all cleaned up, but if you look closely at the pictures you can see how sloppy & rough the castings are - the base looks like it was cast in fine gravel rather than sand. The casting halves were poorly lined up, machined surfaces are rough and uneven, and the guy that did the finish grinding appears to have been in a hurry. I've already talked about the pins on this vise....man, what a real disappointment. It's worse than the Union Parker I restored a while back.
Anyways, pictures before I throw this one up on ePrey.
