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how Hard is it to solder copper tubes

vavet

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I’m thinking of running copper for shop air in my garage. I took a class in high school (25+ years ago) where we did some of this, but I haven’t tried since then. Am I fooling myself to think I can get out of my mapp-pro torch, buy the copper I need at Home Depot, and have a decent system? Ive reviewed YouTube, looks like I can learn how to do it, but anything is easy if you know how.
 
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danallen

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Not hard at all, just clean the pipe and fitting with some emery cloth, add a bit of flux and solder it up.
 

PoorOwner

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Copper pipes soldering is easy.
Stakes are low as you are not trying to plumb water inside walls.


Now Brazing of ACR tubing is harder and require special tools to expand the the tubing to fit one in.
 

The Cobbler

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trick to soldering is, make sure all mating surfaces are cleaned with emery cloth or sand screen. flux each pc and insert pipe fully in to fitting. heat the fitting evenly at the joint , (not the solder). when correct temp is achieved the solder will flow into the joint. (capillary action)
don't move the joint until solder has solidified .
 

ForceFed70

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Yup, it's really easy.

Good advice here. Only 1 more thing to add which is: Once you've heated evenly and you're ready to apply solder, apply the solder to the opposite side of the pipe you're heating. Solder will flow toward the heat.
 

kelpaso1

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And lightly wipe the joint with a damp rag while hot so no globs of solder are hanging. Looks much more professional.
 

LS6 Tommy

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It's very easy to overheat a joint when soldering. Mapp may be a little too hot for a relative newbie. I'd use something like a Bernzomatic propane torch. The cooler flame is a little more forgiving when you're developing a learning curve.

Tommy
 
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htmdude57

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Just want to add: there are 2 thicknesses of copper pipe sold, L and M. You should get the thicker stuff. Remember, water pressure is usually 40-60 psi. Your air pressure could be up to 140-150psi. Also, if you soldered pipe 25 years ago, you might have learned with solder that contained lead, which melts at a lower temperature. So you may have only needed to heat the joint for 5 seconds to melt the solder. Now the solders at HD don't contain lead- you will have to hold the torch on the joint for 15 seconds. (guestimate)
 

Mr. T

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https://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

This is pretty much everything you will need to know in one document.

Also, I would recommend deburring the cut tubing even if you’re only plumbing for air.

To answer your question though, soldering a leak free joint is pretty simple. Making that joint look good, as well as the rest of the installation, takes a bit of practice. If you don’t have one already buy a torpedo level. Nothing in this world looks more “amateur” than pipes and conduit that aren’t level and plumb (unless there is a functional reason).
 
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LS6 Tommy

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There's ACR, K, L, M & DWV grade copper tubing. Even Annealed Type M tubing is fine for compressed air. It's rated way above normal average compressed air system pressures you typically see for general shop use.

Tommy
 

raspy

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When cleaning, make sure there is no glue from bundling tape, paint, other soldering residue or green corrosion. Scuff up the surface a bit with sand cloth and the socket with a soldering brush, but don't get carried away. The pipe and the fittings should be round enough to slip together easily. Put a small amount of flux on the pipe and in the socket with an acid brush. Not much is needed. Bottom the pipe in the socket. Besides the prep work, there are a couple things to know.

Don't get the joint too hot. This is a common mistake and easily ruins the work. if it's turning black, it's too hot. If you get it to that point by mistake, it's best to take it apart and re-clean and flux it. Don't get it too hot.

Solder flows toward heat. Not uphill or down. Toward heat. So heat the whole joint and emphasize the heat near the back of the joint where you want the solder to go.

As the joint is warming up and the flame is pointed at the socket, start testing the temp by brushing the end of the solder along the joint, in the flame. When it begins to melt, not entirely from the torch flame, but alloys into the base metal, feed it in all the way around the socket while the heat is still on and mostly applied to where you want the solder to flow toward. You are not trying to melt the solder with the flame, but the flame can be present as you are melting. As you are testing, just brush the end of the solder aganst the socket and it will melt before the flame melts it. When you see that, it's ready to feed it in. Once quickly fed into the joint, get the heat away and stop making it any hotter. There should be no discolorization. As it begins to cool, right after the heat is removed, start wiping the joint with the tip of the solder to make sure you have a little fillet right where the pipe enters the socket. The joint is still hot enough to give you a few seconds to melt in more solder with no flame. This can get messy as extra drips a bit. This step makes sure that there is no path through the joint for a leak. Use the solder as a tool to knock off any large drips or runs. Once you have wiped the joint with the solder and see a continuous little filet, and you have knocked off any runs or big drips still attached, your done. Back away and let it cool till it hardens. While still warm, after it hardens, spray with a spray bottle that has water and about a tablespoon of detergent. This steam cleans the area. Then wipe with a clean damp rag. Inspect the joint. Done

Practice a bit and you'll get the hang of it right away. Do not get it too hot (did I already mention that) but hot enough that the solder will flow towards the heat and is hot enough to wipe the joint after the heat is removed. The pipe must be hot enough to easily melt the solder, but not too hot. This is probably where most mistakes are made. You can solder in the flame, but the flame should not be used to melt the solder. It must alloy in with the base metal and not just sit there like a bump.

On 1/2" copper, you'll probably use about 1" of solder to make the joint and a bit more to wipe it after the heat is removed.

Lead free solder is best because it is a much stronger material. Silvabrite 100 is my favorite. Everyone has their favorite flux, and so do I. Rectorseal C-Flux is the best I've found. It's aggresive enough and cleans up very easily. Plus, it's water soluble so it doesn't leave corrosive residue in the pipe.

If you are doing a vertical joint and need to hold the pipe into the socket, slip the pipe up into the socket and pinch the socket with a slip joint pliers. Just a bit. Then twist the pipe about 90 degrees and it will twist lock into place to hold it.

A few practice joints following this procedure and you'll be a pro.

The best copper pipe for your project would be Type L. It has a blue label when purchased in sticks. It comes in hard sticks or soft rolls. You can get 10' sticks at Home Depot. It's thicker than the cheapest type M which has a red label. When purchased in a roll be sure to get the right stuff. "Pipe" will say 1/2" pipe. Tubing will say 5/8' tubing. Same diameters. 1/2' copper "pipe" is 5/8" OD. The word "tube" refers to the OD. The word "pipe' refers, roughly to the ID.
 
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LS6 Tommy

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When cleaning, make sure there is no glue from bundling tape, paint, other soldering residue or green corrosion. Scuff up the surface a bit with sand cloth and the socket with a soldering brush, but don't get carried away. The pipe and the fittings should be round enough to slip together easily. Put a small amount of flux on the pipe and in the socket with an acid brush. Not much is needed. Bottom the pipe in the socket. Besides the prep work, there are a couple things to know.

Don't get the joint too hot. This is a common mistake and easily ruins the work. if it's turning black, it's too hot. If you get it to that point by mistake, it's best to take it apart and re-clean and flux it. Don't get it too hot.

Solder flows toward heat. Not uphill or down. Toward heat. So heat the whole joint and emphasize the heat near the back of the joint where you want the solder to go.

As the joint is warming up and the flame is pointed at the socket, start testing the temp by brushing the end of the solder along the joint, in the flame. When it begins to melt, not entirely from the torch flame, but alloys into the base metal, feed it in all the way around the socket while the heat is still on and mostly applied to where you want the solder to flow toward. You are not trying to melt the solder with the flame, but the flame can be present as you are melting. As you are testing, just brush the end of the solder aganst the socket and it will melt before the flame melts it. When you see that, it's ready to feed it in. Once quickly fed into the joint, get the heat away and stop making it any hotter. There should be no discolorization. As it begins to cool, right after the heat is removed, start wiping the joint with the tip of the solder to make sure you have a little fillet right where the pipe enters the socket. The joint is still hot enough to give you a few seconds to melt in more solder with no flame. This can get messy as extra drips a bit. This step makes sure that there is no path through the joint for a leak. Use the solder as a tool to knock off any large drips or runs. Once you have wiped the joint with the solder and see a continuous little filet, and you have knocked off any runs or big drips still attached, your done. Back away and let it cool till it hardens. While still warm, after it hardens, spray with a spray bottle that has water and about a tablespoon of detergent. This steam cleans the area. Then wipe with a clean damp rag. Inspect the joint. Done

Practice a bit and you'll get the hang of it right away. Do not get it too hot (did I already mention that) but hot enough that the solder will flow towards the heat and is hot enough to wipe the joint after the heat is removed. The pipe must be hot enough to easily melt the solder, but not too hot. This is probably where most mistakes are made. You can solder in the flame, but the flame should not be used to melt the solder. It must alloy in with the base metal and not just sit there like a bump.

On 1/2" copper, you'll probably use about 1" of solder to make the joint and a bit more to wipe it after the heat is removed.

Lead free solder is best because it is a much stronger material. Silvabrite 100 is my favorite. Everyone has their favorite flux, and so do I. Rectorseal C-Flux is the best I've found. It's aggresive enough and cleans up very easily. Plus, it's water soluble so it doesn't leave corrosive residue in the pipe.

If you are doing a vertical joint and need to hold the pipe into the socket, slip the pipe up into the socket and pinch the socket with a slip joint pliers. Just a bit. Then twist the pipe about 90 degrees and it will twist lock into place to hold it.

A few practice joints following this procedure and you'll be a pro.

The best copper pipe for your project would be Type L. It has a blue label when purchased in sticks. It comes in hard sticks or soft rolls. You can get 10' sticks at Home Depot. It's thicker than the cheapest type M which has a red label. When purchased in a roll be sure to get the right stuff. "Pipe" will say 1/2" pipe. Tubing will say 5/8' tubing. Same diameters. 1/2' copper "pipe" is 5/8" OD. The word "tube" refers to the OD. The word "pipe' refers, roughly to the ID.

All good points except one little thing about the sizing and description. K, L & M is always "tubing" and is always sized by ID. ACR is sometimes called "pipe" and OD sizing is only used on ACR.

Tommy
 
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purplezr2

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Only thing to add is be careful of what is behind the tubing when soldering, don't want to catch the house/garage on fire.
 

brogmi

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It's very easy to overheat a joint when soldering. Mapp may be a little too hot for a relative newbie. I'd use something like a Bernzomatic propane torch. The cooler flame is a little more forgiving when you're developing a learning curve.

I learned today in another thread here that MAPP gas no longer exists since the last plant making it in the USA closed (in 2008 according to the other thread.) The yellow bottle now contains Map-Pro, a propylene-based gas, which burns only slightly hotter than propane. Still a small step up in heat transfer though but nothing like what MAPP gas used to be.
 
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raspy

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All good points except one little thing about the sizing and description. K, L & M is always "tubing" and is always sized by ID. ACR is sometimes called "pipe" and OD sizing is only used on ACR.

Tommy

Please do some more research.

Perhaps you've never seen Type L or M hard 1/2" copper pipe at any of the many plumbing supply stores or building supply stores across this country. Or notced what homes are plumbed with.

1/2" copper pipe is sold as "pipe" and is 5/8' OD. It's the industry standard name for an extremely common material. It comes in either type L or M. Red or blue label.

Tubing refers to the OD, such as 1/4" tubing, which is 1/4" OD. Pipe refers to the approximate ID, such as 3/4" copper pipe, which is 7/8" OD. This material can also be refered to as 7/8' tubing.

1/2", 3/4" and 1" coper pipe is 5/8", 7/8" and 1 1/8" OD respectively. Or you could refer to them by 5/8", 7/8" or 1 1/8" tubing. Either is correct.

Soft copper that comes in rolls and is refered to as "tubing" (measure the OD), is used in refrigeration and refrigerator ice maker supply lines. It comes in 50' rolls commonly. These rolls will advertise the wall thickness, such as .035 wall, but not the "Type".

Soft rolls of copper that comes in rolls refered to as "Pipe" are referenced as to their "type", instead of wall thickness in thousandths. Such as Type L soft copper 1/2" pipe. This means type L (thick) wall, 5/8' OD material compatible with 1/2" water plumbing pipe and it comes in 60' rolls.

Hard copper pipe, in straight sections has different wall thicknesses refered to as "type". Type L, for instance, is thicker than type M. L has a blue label and M has a red label. Type K is very thick and only used for special cases like some municipal main supply lines or pool light electrical conduit.

L and M are used for house plumbing of domestic water. L in either hard or soft is used underground.
 
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6768rogues

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Old fashioned lead solder and a propane torch is very easy. Not food or water, so lead would work. It has a low broad range of temperature.
New lead free solder is a higher temperature and a smaller band of working temperatures. Use Mapp gas because it needs more heat.
 
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snyder

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take two cookie trays, place one under where your soldering to catch any flux and solder drips. The other one goes behind what you are soldering to keep the flame off the wall.

Also keep about a foot of solder unwound as you feed it, and do let any body parts directly under your work. Drips burn.
 

raspy

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Old fashioned lead solder and a propane torch is very easy. Not food or water, so lead would work. It has a low broad range of temperature.
New lead free solder is a higher temperature and a smaller band of working temperatures. Use Mapp gas because it needs more heat.

Yeah, the old lead solder was so easy to hold in a high viscous liquid state for filling gaps. The newer stuff wants to trickle or be solid. The Silvabrite, with a little practice works pretty well for filling, but not like the lead.

The Sure-Fire, Bernzomatic, Lennox torches (all re-labeled and the same brand) will throttle if you carefully put less pressure on the starter button. I got used to throttling these and it makes them very useful for reducing heat in tight places, with small pipes or near walls. I've had people watching me that can't see how I make them throttle down. A good test for a new self igniting torch is to see if it will throttle with the button, or just wants to be off or on.
 

Lelandwelds

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The real tricky ( amazing, I know) part is not setting your building on fire five hours after you leave.

A small strip of drywall sanding screen works really well. Clean it bright right before soldering. Any copper is stronger than you need. Any copper solder even lead is fine. Fire your torch with acetlyene, propane, mapp, propylene, natural gas, or hydogen. Presto lite rigs are OK. I think a pump up blowtorch from last century will work. Any size 3/8 or larger will work. You don't need as many station drops as you think. I like overhead loops but must admit they aren't vital. Try to remember people are going to push and pull at each air drop for years.

If you wait, it'll never get done.
 
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raspy

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take two cookie trays, place one under where your soldering to catch any flux and solder drips. The other one goes behind what you are soldering to keep the flame off the wall.

Also keep about a foot of solder unwound as you feed it, and do let any body parts directly under your work. Drips burn.

I kept a bunch of Hardyboard concrete siding scraps for this very reason. 9 1/4" wide X 3/8" thick X various lengths. Just toss 'em when they get too messed up.

Also, don't let any dripping solder go into the nozzle of the torch. This prevents them from re-lighting and is hard to clear. Best way is to unscrew the tip and heat it with another torch to melt out the drops.

Keep a large slip-joint pliers handy at all times for tapping, pinching, prying and adjusting your work. You can jam them between a pipe and the wall, dip a sub assembly into water to cool it, or take the torch apart to get the solder drips out.
These are dedicated to soldering, live in the soldering box and will get corroded and dirty over time. The best are Knipex water pump style, but perfectly good are Harbor Freight standard slip joint pliers with only two positions (Channel-Lock style **** for this).
 

DC73

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https://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

This is pretty much everything you will need to know in one document.

Good advice. I used this book when I installed an all copper air distribution system in my workshop.

Pay particular attention in the book to Table 14.4a (page 75) regarding pressure ratings of soldered joints. Because of this table I chose a 95/5 - Tin/Antimony solder. I couldn't find this solder at HD or Lowe's but one of our regional box stores called Sutherlands keeps it in stock.

I lost track of how many solder joints I made up but when it was all said and done, I had zero leaks.

Good luck,

DC
 

raspy

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Good advice. I used this book when I installed an all copper air distribution system in my workshop.

Pay particular attention in the book to Table 14.4a (page 75) regarding pressure ratings of soldered joints. Because of this table I chose a 95/5 - Tin/Antimony solder. I couldn't find this solder at HD or Lowe's but one of our regional box stores called Sutherlands keeps it in stock.

I lost track of how many solder joints I made up but when it was all said and done, I had zero leaks.

Good luck,

DC

The shear strength of 95/5 from Canfield is 6,200 PSI
The shear strength of lead Free Watersafe from Canfield is 8,000 PSI.
Times have changed and modern lead free is available everywhere.

Don't know what lead solder strength is, but I know pipes can be pulled out of fittings if lead solder is used. Very weak.

Lead solder is hard to get these days for soldering pipes. It's used for stained glass and rain gutter work though. I used lead free Silvabrite for all my home raingutters and downspouts.
 

LS6 Tommy

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Please do some more research.

Perhaps you've never seen Type L or M hard 1/2" copper pipe at any of the many plumbing supply stores or building supply stores across this country. Or notced what homes are plumbed with.

1/2" copper pipe is sold as "pipe" and is 5/8' OD. It's the industry standard name for an extremely common material. It comes in either type L or M. Red or blue label.

Tubing refers to the OD, such as 1/4" tubing, which is 1/4" OD. Pipe refers to the approximate ID, such as 3/4" copper pipe, which is 7/8" OD. This material can also be refered to as 7/8' tubing.

1/2", 3/4" and 1" coper pipe is 5/8", 7/8" and 1 1/8" OD respectively. Or you could refer to them by 5/8", 7/8" or 1 1/8" tubing. Either is correct.

Soft copper that comes in rolls and is refered to as "tubing" (measure the OD), is used in refrigeration and refrigerator ice maker supply lines. It comes in 50' rolls commonly. These rolls will advertise the wall thickness, such as .035 wall, but not the "Type".

Soft rolls of copper that comes in rolls refered to as "Pipe" are referenced as to their "type", instead of wall thickness in thousandths. Such as Type L soft copper 1/2" pipe. This means type L (thick) wall, 5/8' OD material compatible with 1/2" water plumbing pipe and it comes in 60' rolls.

Hard copper pipe, in straight sections has different wall thicknesses refered to as "type". Type L, for instance, is thicker than type M. L has a blue label and M has a red label. Type K is very thick and only used for special cases like some municipal main supply lines or pool light electrical conduit.

L and M are used for house plumbing of domestic water. L in either hard or soft is used underground.

I beg to differ. The terms "tubing" and "pipe" do differentiate size measurements, but not the way you are using them. "Pipe" describes things like black iron or steel threaded materials and is sized by NPS (Nominal Pipe Size) which is a standardized OD that is not the same as the actual measured OD, and Schedule, which is the wall thickness and dictates the ID. Think of it as the way standardized lumber sizes are not the same as actual.

All copper tube is measured by ID according the ASTM, except for ACR, which is commonly referred to as "Refrigeration Pipe" but it's still tubing. ACR is measured OD. Everything else (K, L, M & DWV) is measured ID.

Just because you can physically mix ID and OD sized copper does not change how they are actually sized (or properly applied). You can call it whatever you want in conversation, but at an engineering level, anything copper (in a roll or a straight length) is "tubing".
Copper of ANY type is not legal for electrical conduit work, for pool lighting or otherwise.

Tommy
 
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Miss the Pontiacs

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Some great posts I picked up a couple of pointers as well. When it came to soldering copper I am self taught so appreciate the extra knowledge.
Has anyone tried using the new Sharkbite fitting for air? They work great for water connections. No soldering, just measure, cut, deburr and slide on. Just wonder if they would take the additional psi involved with air.
 

James-W

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Is there any particular reason why you don't want to use black gas pipe? A friend of mine used black pipe to do his garage, he ran the pipe on the walls next to the ceiling. Where he wanted air, using a tee he ran a line down the wall. It was a minimal cost and simple to do.
 

raspy

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LS,

Well perhaps you had better go tell the entire plumbing industry that the 3/4" copper and 1/2' copper water "pipe" they are using by the mile, everyday, is not what they or the industry says it is. Pipe is measured, approximately, on the ID and tubing is measured on the OD. Even if they are the exact same thing, they will be named differently if they are discussed as pipe rather than tubing. The words "tubing" or "pipe" must be used to select the category.

You can measure 3/4 copper pipe all day and you won't find any measurement that equals 3/4". It's the same product as 7/8" tubing. Same with 1/2" and 1" copper. If you want 3/4" tubing, you can't call it pipe because it's different than 3/4" copper pipe, 3/4 iron pipe, 3/4" conduit or 3/4" PEX. But there is one thing you can do and that is argue that they are all the same, if you want to.

If you want to discuss the OD as in refrigerant tubing, call it tubing. If you want to talk about copper pipe in homes, used for water, call it pipe. The rule even applies to iron pipe. Measure it all day and you won't find a 3/4" OD measurement on 3/4" pipe, it's closer to 1'' for brass and 1 1/16" for galvanized, but you can discuss iron in terms of the word "schedule". It has an approximate 3/4" ID adjusted by the "schedule", or wall thickness. Just as you can or must discuss copper in L, M or K. All the same OD, but with different wall thicknesses. Those terms say nothing specific themselves, but refer you back to a chart if you want to know the exact dimensions they are refering to. Copper pipe, used for sweating, and sometimes refered to as tubing, is not discussed in terms of "schedule" That is for threaded or **** welded pipe, generally of steel or stainless. Copper tubing is discussed in terms of OD and wall thickness in thousandths. So, you have wall thicknesses in thousandths, Schedules and Types, depending on the material and the function. Whew!

Technically, and in engineering circles, tubing is a fine word and applicable. Perfectly OK to say that copper pipe is really tubing and that it is really a different measuement than the industriy uses. Go ahead if you want to, it's OK .

The best engineeers understand how material measurements and standards are arrived at. They understand the properties of materials and the best ones for specific uses. They also understand what industry needs, uses and has settled on for practical use. They are able to converse in both of these worlds and are successful because of it. It's so much easier to simply suggest a material in response to a simple question, Like the OP asked, than to argue about arcane enginering criteria unrelated to getting air from one side of the shop to the other.

You might want to go and argue that there is no such thing as a 2X4 or a 4X6 to a carpenter. Maybe you're technically right, if only refering to the exact measurements of boards, but so what? How does that get the house built? I can see the argument now as you pull out a ruler and argue that the measurement is really 1 1/2" X 3 1/2" and NOT 2X4, at least in the one you happened to pick up and measure. The same word can be used to name something, that is used to describe something. So what?

I'd like to overhear the conversation next time you ask, at the paint store, for "white" paint. "What color white?", "white", "bright white", " white", "gloss white", " white", etc. Then you can give him the definition of white to clear it up.

Then you can argue that a 3/4 ton truck is not a 3/4 ton truck. Is that a name, a capacity or a weight? The next time your neighbor casually mentions that he may get a new 3/4 ton truck, stop him and tell him how the Society of Automotive Engineers describe those vehicles behind closed doors and that they should only be refered to in that way!

So, carry on and the next time you are in Home Depot, tell the guy you want 7/8" schedule 40 copper pipe. "Wait, while I get the manager", is more likely than "OK". Then, at your next engineers convention, be sure to tell them that homes all across the Country are being fraudulently built with the wrong size pipe that was measured approximately on the inside rather than the outside, and further, the contractors don't know the size of the pipe they are using!

If you get a new air conditioner, ask the technician what "schedule" the copper tubing is. "It's not measured in schedule, it's type L", is his likely answer. He'll respond in tubing OD and possibly wall thickness.

Industries become efficient by streamlining and standardizing. Workmen and suppliers gravitate toward fewer standard parts and dimentions. But engineering standards must be called out in some precise way that can be agreed upon across the country or around the world. Two different situations.

Pipe and tubing mean essentially the same thing in the dictionary. The same shape and function. But in the field they have different meanings. It's the easiest way to alert the listener that you are discussing a material configured and measured in a special way for it's category and purpose. Don't say pipe if you mean tubing. Don't say tubing if you mean pipe. Pipe is ID, tube is OD. To make this mistake at the plumbing supply will just lead to confusion and reveal that you are not aware of industry standards. But, of course, when the guy tries to help identify what you mean, be sure to start lecturing him about how engineers identify things at conventions. Remind him you know more about it than he does. Then they'll quickly understand what you mean.
 
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theoldwizard1

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getting a nice, pretty, professional solder joint DOES take practice !

Don't waste you money on MAPP-Pro. It realy is no better than regular propane (the original MAPP was discontinued sever years back).

If you don't have too many fittings, compression fitting work on hard copper, but of course are more expensive (cheaper than Shark Bites). The only special tool required is a ferrule puller if you make a mistake.
 

raspy

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Wellington, Nevada
getting a nice, pretty, professional solder joint DOES take practice !

Don't waste you money on MAPP-Pro. It realy is no better than regular propane (the original MAPP was discontinued sever years back).

If you don't have too many fittings, compression fitting work on hard copper, but of course are more expensive (cheaper than Shark Bites). The only special tool required is a ferrule puller if you make a mistake.

Or just say screw-it! Loudly and seriously for affect. Throw something down as you do! :lol: Then thread up a bunch of iron pipe and be done with it. Just don't use PVC. Uh oh, PVC, a potential other topic. :D
 

like2wheel

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On an as needed basis
I learned today in another thread here that MAPP gas no longer exists since the last plant making it in the USA closed (in 2008 according to the other thread.) The yellow bottle now contains Map-Pro, a propylene-based gas, which burns only slightly hotter than propane. Still a small step up in heat transfer though but nothing like what MAPP gas used to be.

Yeah, Mapp Pro burns at 3730 degrees vs propane @ 3600. Holding the torch a fraction of an inch closer will make a bigger difference
 

James-W

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I have a tank of Mapp Gas that I bought many years ago. There is still some left in the tank. I wasn't aware they quit selling it. I wonder why they quit?
 

Miss the Pontiacs

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The hottest portion of the flame is the top of the cone. You may as well get your moneys worth out of whatever you are using for gas.
Like2Wheel says hold it a little closer.:FIREdevil
 

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metlmunchr

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No.

Copper pipe is measured by ID. Copper tubing is measured by OD.

I assume you and Raspy must be dealing with Lowes or Home Depot where anything round with a hole thru it is "pipe" and no one knows the difference between pipe and tubing.

Enter "copper pipe" in a search at Ferguson Enterprises' website, and you'll get nothing returned by that name. It will automatically revert the search to copper tubing. Ferguson is the largest plumbing and piping wholesaler in the US, and they call it tubing, not pipe. As a plumbing supply house, they definitely go by ID sizes, but its still tubing.
 

raspy

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Wellington, Nevada
I assume you and Raspy must be dealing with Lowes or Home Depot where anything round with a hole thru it is "pipe" and no one knows the difference between pipe and tubing.

Enter "copper pipe" in a search at Ferguson Enterprises' website, and you'll get nothing returned by that name. It will automatically revert the search to copper tubing. Ferguson is the largest plumbing and piping wholesaler in the US, and they call it tubing, not pipe. As a plumbing supply house, they definitely go by ID sizes, but its still tubing.

Ferguson doesn't list full length hard pipe on that site unless you have an account. But they do show tubing coils and refer to the OD.

Better to do a search for "the difference between pipe and tubing". Then you'll get many hits on industry standards and the general meaning of the two terms. Nominal ID is pipe, OD is tube.

"round with a hole in it"
Yep, I was at the tire store the other day and sure enough, they had round things with holes in them. "Pipes", I guess they're called. So I bought some rubber "pipes" for my truck. Then on the way home I stopped at Tractor Supply for some nuts and bolts. Turns out the washers are called "pipes" now 'cause they are round with holes. So I got some "pipes" and nuts and bolts. Then we went shooting and made some "pipes" ourselves from round targets. Maybe I'll plumb the house with a stack of those round things that we used to call donuts. Yep, round with holes in them, same as water pipes 'fur as I can tell.
 
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