Craftsman from China - really that bad?
- Thread starter thwaller
- Start date
Tool truck service and lifetime warranty on tools that are generally used hard every day. All that is built into the price.
wyattstihl
Well-known member
Be gone ye herald of Satan!!!!
Coach
Ye shall not banish me!!! For I have protection!
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wyattstihl
Well-known member
Guess so, but Ive heard Snap Ons warranty is horrendous, and im sure Snap Ons name doesnt hurt its price either. Like I said, Im no pro so it all seems like a waste to me, but its different for the pros.
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Not sure where you heard that, but SO warranty is generally considered one of the best in the business
WWheeler
Well-known member
Snap-on's warranty is awesome if you bought the tools yourself new from a dealer or through their website. Seriously. At least dealing with them on the phone their customer service doesn't get any better than that.
Only people I've seen butthurt by Snap-on's warranty are those who figured they could warranty tools they inherited or picked up used thinking their warranty was going to be like Craftsman and came to find out Snap-on's warranty only covers original purchaser. Well, there have also been a few whose dealers sounded like pricks, but we're just getting half the story. The dealers I've seen have all been great about warrantying a tool.
Only people I've seen butthurt by Snap-on's warranty are those who figured they could warranty tools they inherited or picked up used thinking their warranty was going to be like Craftsman and came to find out Snap-on's warranty only covers original purchaser. Well, there have also been a few whose dealers sounded like pricks, but we're just getting half the story. The dealers I've seen have all been great about warrantying a tool.
But that applies only to the professionals that have a tool truck that visits them. to the rest of us, there is essentially no warranty. I say that meaning that a warranty with fine print and that is hard to use is not a good warranty. Plus, Snap On also makes it clear that the warranty applies to the original purchaser only and you have to pay to ship it to them for them to "make a decision".
Husky, Kobalt, Tekton, Craftsman, etc all have a lifetime warranty as well, so I do not think that the warranty is a factor in why it costs more than others. But I am sure it is nice to have a tool truck come to you vs having to go to a store. I think it is quite clear though that Snap On caters to professionals, especially those with a credit account. So the experiences are sort of expected to be different, since as a non professional, Snap On really could not care less about me.
Could I ask the Snap On fans a question? I know that Blue Point is a Snap On brand with a similar relationship as Craftsman and Evolv. Is the quality of Blue Point same as Snap On, or is the quality lesser? I know the USA guys wouldn't buy Blue Point as it is not USA made, but how do the two brands compare? Is Blue Point the way to go, as a better value brand than Snap On?
I generally think of them as the same in terms of a brand, but they do offer slightly different products. On the other hand though, Evolv is not at the same quality as Craftsman. I cannot speak to how well they hold up to hard use, but I can say that the overall feel is where they fail. Plus I need a receipt to get warranty service.
I generally think of them as the same in terms of a brand, but they do offer slightly different products. On the other hand though, Evolv is not at the same quality as Craftsman. I cannot speak to how well they hold up to hard use, but I can say that the overall feel is where they fail. Plus I need a receipt to get warranty service.
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wyattstihl
Well-known member
The warranty is the same via phone/email as it is on the truck. Of course, dealers are individuals, and some are more lenient than others, especially with their good customers.
Making a phone call or writing an email is not hard for most of us. Try it and call them, you'll speak to a friendly person in the USA! Imagine that!
I've had one warranty issue. I called them and explained it. They didn't even want the old one back or ask for any pictures, just sent me a new one. Then again, I'm a legit customer and not a flea market bucket full o' rusty tools type looking for "warranty". I'm glad they deny that type--I don't feel obligated to finance his eBay endeavor through my future purchases.
There is no gauntlet to run for warranty service. Although if you wanted one, they'd probably do it for you--their customer service is that good.
Only new Cman I have was warranty stuff, I agree it's not as horrible as some make it out to be, I have several new sockets and drivers, as well as an extension. Have not broke anything yet and I've had the one new China 15/16 on an impact multiple times.
Hey, he asked, I answered. Want to know a big part of the reason SO is expensive? Well there you go...
I don't get the "hard to use' or "essentially worthless" warranty bitching. Have you ever used the SO warranty? I have. I called them and they sent a new item without issue. Took all of probably 6 minutes. Of course I bought directly from their website and they had record of the sale. Buy on eBay and you may not have such good service...
SO tools aren't for everyone, that's for sure and I am no SO fanboy, but warranty hard to use? Come on...
Thinking back ... I purchased both O2 sensor sockets online, so those should be covered as I can actually provide I purchased them. My Blue Point spinner (PN FSD1) I had a buddy grab for me from the Snap On truck, so no warranty there. The Snap On spinner came from my father, so again, no warranty. The brake kit I mentioned (Blue Point) was a gift, so yet again, no warranty.
But the Husky/Kobalt/Craftsman/Stanley/etc wrench I bought myself, the ones I got as gifts and the ones I got from my father ... those all have a warranty, no hassle, no worries, just a warranty that I know is there.
I never have tried calling them, my only interaction with them has been web site order and having someone else interact with the truck for me. I think I may try and give them a call and pose this to them and see what they say. I do not believe any of my tools under their brands could be considered not legit, but yet most end up with no warranty due to fine print.
I have zero experience with Bluepoint, so I cant address that question.
You seem to be hung up on easy warranty. If that's the case then just get Tekton. Generally very good stuff (some of it excellent), some of it made in the USA, relatively inexpensive, and probably the easiest hassle free warranty in the business.
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Wait. You post that the SO warranty is "hard to use" then 2 posts later you say you've actually never tried to use it?
Makes sense...
In regard to Snap On, my biggest issue is warranty, yes. If I would pay $150 for a ratchet, I would expect Tekton type warranty, easy, hassle free, etc. That is one of the reasons that is supposed to justify the high prices, the service.
I do not like receipt required warranties, but I think all would agree on that. There is no way I would have and be able to keep receipts for each and every tool I purchased. But for brands like Evolv, you get a small set of something in a box and the receipt could easily just be kept in there.
I also buy some generic tools with the expectation of no warranty, whether it is there or not. So warranty is not the only thing I am concerned with, but I buy cheap tools for cheap prices and do not expect warranty. But if I pay a premium price, I do expect warranty.
Wait. You post that the SO warranty is "hard to use" then 2 posts later you say you've actually never tried to use it?
Makes sense...
Well, I never said that, but I think I know what you mean. I have never called or dealt with Snap On as the company in that sense. But I have tried talking directly to the Snap On truck guy. That is where my experience comes from, and also why the spinner I had someone else get it for me on the truck. When you ask a Snap On guy about a warranty on a tool and he tells you that you need to deal directly with where you bought to see if there is warranty, then you turn around and give said tool to one of his shop customers and he is taken care of right away, that makes it fairly clear Snap On does not value small people or their business. But that is fine as I am also not in their target market.
And that ties in to the reason I posted here to begin with. Craftsman comes with a warranty, and I have experience with the quality of the tools, but not so much since the change to China. So where I wonder is that due to the lack of Sears locations compared to years back, are the China tools less reliable? If one breaks, it is harder to get service, but if the China CMAN do not break more often than the former USA ones, then that is still fine. But if they will break frequently, then CMAN is no longer a good option in that regard as I will need to use warranty more often and it will be harder to use when I do.
I am just looking at a good mix of value and quality. A Tekton type warranty is still not good if you break the tool every week. Thus the question here on China CMAN... is the quality a good fit in that value mix? I hope that makes sense.
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OK, I didn't understand the whole story earlier.
Again, I'm not a SO fanboy, but like someone else mentioned, the tool truck drivers are individuals each with their own personality. I don't know what their SOP is for 'walk on's", but I can kinda understand not warrantying every Joe that walks on to the truck with a tool he wants replaced. The driver has no relationship or history with either the customer or the tool. How does the driver know that it's not a garage sale or eBay tool?
And as far as a $150 dollar ratchet, I have and have no problem with spending $10-$15 bucks on a repair kit. I bet if I called and was nice I might even get one for free, but I wouldn't expect that. Usually, when I buy a new ratchet I buy a repair kit along with it. They're cheap and if I ever need it, I have one now, not in a week. As a home gamer, I know what I'm in for when I buy SO tools.
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All good, I think I understood what you were meaning. I do hear you, but that is the exact reason why I say there is warranty issue, and my opinion is to just associate SO with no warranty. You can still buy new tools on eBay, not just used, but I know what you are intending there I think.
My question would be though ... how do they know it is NOT a garage sale tool? It is more like you are denied warranty if you are not a current customer to the guy or you cannot prove your purchase... sort of making them a "proof of purchase required" warranty. But that really does go into people like me are just not their target market ... their target market will most likely have a regular truck guy who knows them.
Personally, I do not feel that a warranty should be based on a relationship, a warranty should be based on the product and if they truly believe in it and truly care about the customers. Relationship based things are not customer centric, it is self involved. That sounds kind of harsh, but I think you know what I am trying to say.
I guess "Lifetime Warranty" to SO means the lifetime of the original purchaser, not the tool
And as far as buying new on eBay, don't be so sure you'd be covered. SO might deny one on that scenario too
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I guess "Lifetime Warranty" to SO means the lifetime of the original purchaser, not the tool
And as far as buying new on eBay, don't be so sure you'd be covered. SO might deny one on that scenario too
I believe you are correct, that SO would deny warranty if purchased on eBay. I have no fact to back it up though. I would assume SO will warranty tools purchased on the truck as long as you are either a current customer or the truck guy knows you and/or knows you bought the tool from the truck... or you bought from the web site as there is a solid proof of sale. I also believe, if I read correctly, if I buy a SO tool from the web site and have a receipt, the truck will still deny warranty, you are to deal with SO directly.
That is what frustrates me, that the warranty is complex for lack of better words. Many reasons to avoid providing warranty service. Not that this is likely to happen, but I could buy $10k of tools from a Snap On truck and give them to you, and you as the first and only user of the tools have absolutely no warranty. Honestly though, one should not end up breaking too many tools. I would suspect that the majority of warranty service attempts are the result of misuse, but I could be wrong.
Back to the point of the thread, what I might find helpful is a list of China Craftsman tools to avoid as they are known to be of lesser quality and a list of tools that appear so far as good.
I know right away that those wrenches with the large lobster claw on the open end are to be avoided. I have not used one, but I heard from many others and have seen pictures of them. Although you would normally be able to easily see this, if you do not have the different products next to each other to compare and are not paying close enough attention, one could purchase those wrenches without realizing it until later. I would not be happy if that happened to me.
I know right away that those wrenches with the large lobster claw on the open end are to be avoided. I have not used one, but I heard from many others and have seen pictures of them. Although you would normally be able to easily see this, if you do not have the different products next to each other to compare and are not paying close enough attention, one could purchase those wrenches without realizing it until later. I would not be happy if that happened to me.
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
The Loss of the Craftsman mechanics tool line, as I once knew it, has fortunately had only a minor impact on My purchases. I bought Craftsman tools as secondary, fill in, and less used tools behind Proto, Snap-on, SK and Duro. The old USA Craftsman and Duro may be gone; but when I add Wright, USA Williams, and a host of smaller USA and German companies to My wish list; I have no reason morn the past, or make any depressing purchases..
wyattstihl
Well-known member
Maybe come this Thursday the Craftsman name won’t be as Chinese anymore, Im itching to see what Craftsman has to offer...
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Coach James
Well-known member
Ye shall not banish me!!! For I have protection!
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A+ for that one. LOL.
Coach
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I will say, as one who looks at the quality of the tool, at least as it relates my my uses, it is frustrating that there is so much variance as of late. This thread had intent to see if the China CMAN is really as bad as made out to be vs the USA ones. Now, there is yet another version of tools. So, unless I am missing some or simply oversimplifying ... we have the Sears Craftsman made in USA, the Sears Craftsman made in China, and we are adding to that SB&D Craftsman made in USA with global materials.
I still wonder if SB&D will warranty the Sears China versions and replace them with their USA version, or if you will be asked to obtain service from the retailer purchased from. I would also be interested to see if there is an actual strength difference between them. Take a Sears China and a SB&D USA, strip on the markings and use them and compare.
The issue I see is bias. I am making what I believe to be a fair attempt to give China Craftsman a fair shot, but I still find myself with a bias and a overall doubt and hesitation on the China ones. Mostly because I have used my USA Craftsmans for 20+ years, so there is a certain level of confidence and trust in a specific tool over time. The China ones, there is no time tested trust there. For all I know, the China variety may only be 1/2 as strong and I just cannot see it at this time.... or it may actually be the other way around and the China ones actually be stronger.
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wyattstihl
Well-known member
Theres also SBD China Craftsman, take a look at whats on the shelf in Lowes right now. The current SBD sets are Chinese, and I dont even know if thats going to change this Thursday.
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I guess "Lifetime Warranty" to SO means the lifetime of the original purchaser, not the tool
The more I think about what you said here, the more I wonder if that is actually correct, and possibly even their intent. I cannot say I would agree with that, but given that Snap On does have a very specific target market, maybe that is part of that. You cater to those who are in a position to pay top dollar for tools, and you take care of them (warranty service). For others, you do not provide service as they are not your "customer" in the sense of what is said here. I guess it is possible that their service and warranty policies are intentionally structured to sort of enforce a segmented market place. Almost you are paying the price for the tools and sort of hiring yourself a tools partner. So once you stop buying, or sell the tools, that "employee" you hired no longer works for you or the tools.
I would be curious as to what others think about that. That would actually make sense to me, and would also put truth and logic into both sides of that discussion.
Interesting ... it was my understanding that what SB&D is selling right now (the Lowes shelves and others) are actually Sears "made" tools, same as you get in the Sears shelves. The change is the new ones coming our where SB&D will introduce their Craftsman variety of made in USA with global materials tools. I know for sure that the tool chests/boxes are being made in the USA, or at least some of them or certain lines of them.
I could be wrong, that is just was I was to understand. So it is interesting to hear what others have heard or know.
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WWheeler
Well-known member
I guess "Lifetime Warranty" to SO means the lifetime of the original purchaser, not the tool
And as far as buying new on eBay, don't be so sure you'd be covered. SO might deny one on that scenario too
FWIW I have no idea if Snap-on used to have an express 'lifetime' guarantee, but they don't use the word 'lifetime' or imply anything to that effect in their current online warranty statement.
In short, their warranty only applies to "the original Customer" who purchased snap-on/bluepoint products 'from authorized .. distribution channels' and they they "will be free from defects in workmanship and materials for a duration described in each Product's warranty code."
I would assume the 'warranty code' duration for their hand tools is lifetime or something to that effect but that would be just a guess. I've bought more than a handful of tools from the website before and none came with anything explaining it's 'warranty code' duration. The way it's written everyone has to ask their dealer or snail-mail snap-on for the warranty code for each specific tool. That seems like it leaves them a LOT of wiggle room for what is and isn't covered for however long. That said, I've only had to deal with Snap-on twice and both times they were as perfect a customer service as they could be. Told them the deal and they asked for the address to make it right. Done.
https://www.snapon.com/industrial/utility/Warranty.nws
After reading all that it really does make me appreciate Craftsman's 'lifetime' warranty.
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wyattstihl
Well-known member
Guess I should clarify more. SBD was sourcing almost everything (excluding boxes) from Sears sources, accept their gunmetal socket sets. Those were made in Taiwan and sourced from SBD.
IMO, the boxes they have now dont look a darn thing different from what was on the floor in Sears, just a bunch of USA advertising because thats what the people want. Set a newer Sears Craftsman and Stanley Craftsman next to one another, there no different. Example:
52 Inch Combo
Sears:
Stanley:
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454ragtop
Well-known member
My one bit of experience regarding this, I have a set of Craftsman metric raised panel DBE wrenches, made in USA, probably from the late 70's early 80's. Quite frankly, I abuse the **** out of them, doing things you wouldn't think of doing to say tool truck wrenches, like hitting them with a hammer. Not proud of it, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do, I didn't design these sh**boxes, just trying to fix them. Anyway, about a year and a half ago the 13mm/15mm cracked, from said hammering. Hoped Sears might have some old stock, nope, had to order in a replacement, and of course it's Chinese. Fearing the worst, I compared it to the old one, surprised to see I can see no difference other than the country stamp. Been using it, hammering on it sometimes, and seems just as good as the original one, much as I hate to admit it.
sberry
Banned
I used to change jobs on occasion. Every once in a while I could talk a company owner to raid the Sears store and get some **** could be free by the end of the week. .. really. I agree this class of tool isn't fine craftsmanship but if the object is to get something done it can be bought at convenience prices.
Makes it a no brainer not to do without if you need it. 300 sockets 200$. Be a great graduation gift for the right type.
Gich U a 1/2 HF breaker bar too.
Makes it a no brainer not to do without if you need it. 300 sockets 200$. Be a great graduation gift for the right type.
Gich U a 1/2 HF breaker bar too.
I've split my Snap-on purchases about 70% direct and 30% used. I never pay more than 50% of retail for used because if I break it I know I will have to replace it myself.
I too am glad they don't warranty any junk from 50 years ago that people buy at a Flea Market. If they did they would have to charge even more for their tools. They seem to very rarely ask you to send in the tool unless they think you are abusing the warranty. Many people have also reported calling in and being honest, "I inherited this tool from my grandfather", etc and still got service even though they weren't the original owner. The other thing is their repair kits are stupid cheap compared to the tool and they sell them with free shipping from the website. Try that with Mac or Matco and it's $20 shipping for a $30 repair kit.
No BOGO deals or interest free financing from the website like is possible on the truck but they do keep a record of the sale so you don't have to worry about a receipt.
I do get irritated with unauthorized eBay sellers reselling Snap-on and citing lifetime warranty as a benefit. That is nothing less than fraud. Those clowns are also usually selling for about 10% less than new and get offended when I offer 50%.
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AreYaSerious
Well-known member
I guess "Lifetime Warranty" to SO means the lifetime of the original purchaser, not the tool
And as far as buying new on eBay, don't be so sure you'd be covered. SO might deny one on that scenario too
This is why I will never do business with them.
wyattstihl
Well-known member
Please do share should anything happen to it or it breaks. Even if you notice something that makes it worse in some way to its prior USA wrench you had. To clarify, your replacement China wrench does not have the over sized lobster claw end on it, correct?
EDIT: I failed to see and interpret "DBE", so I can see there is no open end for you, so my question does not apply. Sorry.
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I agree with you there, that those selling this way are acting in a fraudulent way. Mainly because they are misleading, if not lying, to the customer. From my understanding, Snap On will only provide warranty service is you are the original purchaser from an authorized dealer (with apparent discretion at times). So the tools they sell, the eBay buyer is actually NOT the original owner, even though it might seem like it.
Thing is ... used Snap On tools are somewhat worthless in value, as there is no warranty whereas with cheaper brand tools, the used tool has warranty, thus has more value. That is not to say that the tools perform any worse, assumingly, but in the event something should happen, your money is better spent elsewhere if that is a concern. If you step back, used Snap On tools carry no warranty. Where that ***** ... never gift anyone Snap On tools as you are giving them expensive tools with no warranty. That just sounds very unfortunate. I mention that because the screwdriver set I shared a picture of pieces from ... that set was a gift.
I completely disagree with this. If you are not abusing the tool (and I'm talking hand tools here, sockets, ratchets, wrenches, etc.) the chances of one breaking is virtually zero. I have some 2nd hand SO hand tools and never had one issue with any and they've all given me more than my monies worth.
I know warranty is important to some, many threads have quickly gone down hill with warranty discussion. Personally, warranty is so far down my hand tool buying decision list, it's inconsequential.
sberry
Banned
I never warranted any common Snap hand tools. I don't have that much, used some here and there. never busted one. I would say it might be a pretty rare day for a professional to break it in normal service. I have broke very few cheap sockets, a couple impacts in common I really hammer. I say cheap but lots of Sears as I got a lot. I got a few of mix never those.