I was under the impression the midget wrenches were USA made. Perhaps mine were NOS when I purchased them. I haven't needed one that small yet but they were buy one get one half off at ACE so I picked up metric and SAE.
Craftsman from China - really that bad?
- Thread starter thwaller
- Start date
I think Evolv impact socket is a great value as well. It has been a while since I checked them at the store but mine which was bought a few years ago is made in Taiwan. This one is on sale now:
Evolv 10 pc. Impact Socket Set, Inches $15.26
https://www.sears.com/craftsman-evo...lerId=SEARS&prdNo=24&blockNo=24&blockType=G24
That is interesting, I did not look at Evolv at all since this ... someone had said the brand was no more. The price is interesting that you posted. 10 pieces for $17 (my price came up slightly different). Tekton has a set:
https://www.tekton.com/shallow-6-po...&drive-size=3-8-in&piece-count=8-pc&unit=inch
They offer 8 pieces in a molded case for $15.
I have never owned or even used any Evolv, but I wonder how those two compare? Additionally, do you know how they compare to the Craftsman branded China ones? I would almost assume that a Craftsman China is of a lesser quality than an Evolv Taiwan, which is opposite of the brand positioning.
I see no real value on any of the linked impact sets, you can get better designed taiwan sockets for less to same money easily, Tekton impacts really are run of the mill design/spec . Not a case they no good but a case of better can be had for no more outlay .
sberry
Banned
The money difference between these cheap tools is moot. If premium is 300 and others are 200 then that's real money but when one is 30 and one is 25 is anyone really getting robbed with the difference?
I see that in a thread here, there was some implication that Sears wanted 16 and HF 15 so Sears were greedy types out to skin everyone.
We are talking about stuff here at disposable prices for the most part.
I see that in a thread here, there was some implication that Sears wanted 16 and HF 15 so Sears were greedy types out to skin everyone.
We are talking about stuff here at disposable prices for the most part.
sberry
Banned
Sears didn't croak cause it wasn't good enough, they did because they tried to sell too cheap and raced the giants to the bottom. They should have looked up instead of down and protected their brand instead of compete with generics.
Here is an example of the sillyness of the 'lobster' or wide hipped open end.
Finish is worn away. Made in Germany for the export market by Stahlwille.
It is not worn out nor spread thus an excellent user tool.
Oh, there is no warranty...
So is it junk? Absolutely not. The fitting in tight spaces issue does apply but just use a tool apt for that area. We all have them in duplicates already.
Finish is worn away. Made in Germany for the export market by Stahlwille.
It is not worn out nor spread thus an excellent user tool.
Oh, there is no warranty...
So is it junk? Absolutely not. The fitting in tight spaces issue does apply but just use a tool apt for that area. We all have them in duplicates already.
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sberry
Banned
I keep a few of those, really very few. I stripped them out of the collection for the most part. I kept some older ones, they were different but that **** was always in the way, I really didn't and dont use it, I use some box ends. There is nothing wrong with it but have so much duplication in standard that have 2 or more of a given size at most places.
Those were bought a lot in Sears sets. I use an open end some but use a box a lot.
Those were bought a lot in Sears sets. I use an open end some but use a box a lot.
sberry
Banned
The value is if you aint got it and need or need and got. Is there better for a little different money,, maybe.
sberry
Banned
We should have a best for the least thread. It would likely look like the tool truck equivelents to some extent.
nutsnbolts
Well-known member
Not to mention taking their catalog for granted. They were in prime position to be the top online retailer if they had just hung on to what got them where they were.
WWheeler
Well-known member
I can vouch, as I have here before many times, that Craftsman's China-made impact sockets are very durable. I've been hammering on them for ~6yrs or more now and even the drive ends still look new. I have some Matco ADV sockets I bought since then and they're ok, but boy can you tell by the drive ends which ones have been beat on much more so than my Craftsman's that have been used a whole lot more for a lot longer. I also like the Craftsman impacts, both when they were made in USA by Armstrong and the newer China-made ones, because they both don't have really thick sidewalls like HFs and many others. They'll fit places many others won't. I don't own any but I suspect Gearwrench impact sockets, just like their chromed sockets, are probably comparable to Craftsman, just because they are both made by Apex and made in China.
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On the back of the holder for those wrench sets, it says Craftsman is a trademark of Stanley Black and Decker.
So, while they may actually be made by the same shop as the current Sears version, they are in newly labeled packaging.
I would think SBD may do this just to "get the ball rolling" at Lowes and elsewhere. (Meaning just to get SOME bit of stock to the stores.) Then as they get their own shops up to speed, they may change this.
I recently warrantied three Craftsman Philips screwdrivers, two #2's and one #1, all due to the handles starting to deteriorate (the chalky powder, and yes the smell).
What I got in return surprised me because one of the #2's was replaced with a China made screwdriver, but the other two were clearly marked with WF on the handles. By the way, the China #2 is marked 41295 Z AG on the handle. The WF is marked 41295 AG WF on the handle.
As to smell? Well, so far they just smell like plastic. No stink or anything. But remember, I've only had them for maybe a month or so.
I do see two differences though. The China made #2 has more "blueing" to the handle. Definitely a different shade to the handle. The other difference is the part of the shafts that are inside the handle. The ones from WF go deeper into the handle and have larger flanges in the handle.
Will the difference in the "in-handle" part of the shaft make a difference in how they hold up? I have no idea. They feel the same in my hands.
This whole discussion will soon be moot. Sears common stock is $1.58 today. It was around a buck more for the last few weeks. Eddie lampert, the CEO of Sears Holdings and the principal holder of Sears debt, has offered to buy Kenmore and a few of Sears remaining assets. They are hemmoraging money, many suppliers have cut them off,the shelves are empty and they are closing hundreds of stores. The board of directors are his hand picked choices so they will probably go along.The finance gurus say this is probably their last holiday season. I would not buy anything that might need parts down the road. Forget about warranty. If you get a good deal on hand tools that might make some sense.
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better for little different money, sure .
If you in a pickle and need something locally then this set could be useful and price acceptable but if you want better or got specific design preferences such as stepped shouldering, broaching depth etc better can be had in same cost range no problem .
Buy low and hold it until it gains value? Lol!!!
Are there specific Taiwan impact socket sets that you recommend? I remember you making a similar comment in another thread (and perhaps mentioning eBay as a possible source), but are there specific manufacturers or sets that you would recommend? Thanks in advance.
It really won't be, since Sears pretty much dropped out of the picture, when SBD, announce they were going to re-whatever with their new Cman brand through Lowes.
This tool melodrama, is just getting (re)started.
The Craftsman name will get a new life under SB&D but Sears Craftsman is another story. I would not buy anything too elaborate or expensive from Sears.
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mowkep
Well-known member
Sears MC is at 26.99 pct and balance transfer is 5 pct. Not competitive in the least. Tired of all the junk mail and email offers from them.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
When Craftsman was still owned by Sears, they went through SEVERAL different Chinese manufacturers. Some were better than other. IMHO, things like wrenches and socket were NEVER as good as the older Made in USA ones.
So the "quality", or maybe I should say "finish", has been up and down for the past 10-20 years.
What really kills me is that for years the Sears/Craftsman tools made in China sold for a BIG premium over the HF tools that were made "down the road" or perhaps in the same factory.
So the "quality", or maybe I should say "finish", has been up and down for the past 10-20 years.
What really kills me is that for years the Sears/Craftsman tools made in China sold for a BIG premium over the HF tools that were made "down the road" or perhaps in the same factory.
SB&D will honor warranty on Craftsman products. While Sears is still here, they will request that you take a Sears Craftsman to Sears for warranty. If there is no longer a Sears, then it is SB&D. That comes direct from them. But if you refer to other Sears brand products, excluding Craftsman, that is a different story. If in doubt on which Craftsman you have, they suggest you call their service number and they will assist you and/or direct you to the proper place of someone who will provide you with the needed service.
Having said that, you might also be referring to the gimmick tools. I would agree to avoid those since if SB&D will not make it, there will be nothing to replace it with. SB&D was a bit dodging of my questions, but they did say if all else fails, call them and they will take care of it.
According to Western Forge,
"The Butyrate material smell with new screwdrivers is actually from a scent that is put into the manufacturing process. I have screwdrivers from over 30 years, that still have the original scent, but if a screwdriver is stored in a tightly closed enclosure in very hot conditions, for long periods of time, this scent can be released and the natural scent of the butyrate comes out. The release of the scent doesn't affect the performance of the core butyrate handles and we have not seen degradation because of it. The best way to prevent the release of the scent is to allow air movement to the screwdrivers keep them out of long periods of extreme heat in a tightly sealed box.
The CAB has a high level of chemical resistance and using vinegar or soap and water on the handle will have no adverse effects. Caustic chemicals like Acetone should be used cautiously and under the manufacturers direction with extreme care."
That information is 2 days old.
I wonder if the China ones will have this issue of smell. The Craftsman ones have the smell usually right out the package, so since you have no smell, that sounds promising.
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Please do explain. I have found, from the advice of many others that caused my purchase, that the Tekton impacts are a great value and have so far taken all I have thrown at them, and broke one of my extensions using one while socket was just fine. Yes, extensions are a weak point on impact, but it does show the socket was not a weak point. Having used them, I see no difference between them and the others I have, parts store generics, Craftsman USA, Blue Point, etc. I have no Snap On branded, so no need to go there.
Snap on, Mac, Facom etc.. Impacts all feel exactly the same as any other impact socket i've used.
I get my sets cheap from amazon or ebay. Its just a bit of shaped metal any decent factory can churn them out in their millions easily.
When your only paying a few pounds per socket then i just buy another if it breaks, never has though.
I got tired of my 6pt 19mm impacts getting stuck on 2pc lug nuts. I bought a 19mm deep Snap On impact and I don't have that problem anymore on the exact same lug nuts.
To help understand better, can you provide a picture of both sockets and the lug nut in question? I am not sure I have seen what you refer to, but I want to understand.
If you could too, if I think I might know what you mean, you you provide picture of the inside of sockets too, to see the broach depth?
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Sounds like the cheaper one was a tighter fit than the snap-on.
Ask and ye shall receive:
View media item 85972View media item 85973
Craftsman is on top. You can see the marks on the sides where its been put in a vise to hammer out the lugs it grabs and just won't let go. I also included a new lug nut of the type I'm talking about. Chrysler, Ford, and others use these. The broach on the Craftsman is 1.312", the Snap On is .567" (roughly, used my cheap calipers, didn't feel like going to get my Mitutoyos). The depth of broach does not affect how the nut fits in the socket; the nut goes to its lip in both sockets. The Craftsman socket is USA made, code GK, which makes them Danaher, likely early 2000s when I bought them.
Funny thing: the Craftsman socket is about .003" tighter than the Snap On...but the Snap On fits the nut MUCH better. Judging solely by feel and by eye, the nut has about 2-3* of rotational play in the Snap On, and about 6-8* in the Craftsman. Neither socket has been used much, although the C-Man has been used more, as the Snappy is relatively new.
My guess: The Snap On socket grabs the nut further back on the flats than the Craftsman, making it less likely to damage the outer covering of the nut and wedging it in the socket. When the lug nuts do get lodged inside, they are not swollen, as both sockets will slip right over them. And it takes a fair amount of the ball peen technique to free them, upon which they are garbage.
For the amount of money that Craftsman socket has cost me in lug nuts (they're $6/each) I could have just bought the Snap On and saved a few bucks.
I have not used the Tekton impacts, so I'm not sure. The only impacts I can currently compare side by side are the Craftsman made-in-China set and the Pittsburg deep well impact sockets from Harbor Freight. I like the Craftsman better than the Pittsburg at least.
The screwdrivers have held up well for me over the past few years I've had them, though I'm a home mechanic, so I don't used them every single day. The tips don't seem as good to me as, for example, the Wera laser-etched tips, but they seemed better to me than any of the other screwdrivers I had before them, including the old CAB made-in-USA Craftsman screwdrivers, which I demoted to the junk drawer when I got and tried these.
The handles are a mix of hard textured plastic with gray rubberized material. They have not started deteriorating on me yet, but I'm sure any handle that incorporates rubberized material will eventually wear. Then again, the tips also eventually wear, so it's not like any screwdriver has an unlimited lifetime. I can't say how the lifetime on these compares to the lifetime of other screwdrivers, since they haven't worn out on me yet. I'm sure others who use them more often than I do could weigh in better on that. I just know that while they work, they work well and I like them.
No, the midget and ignition wrenches have both been made in China for at least a few years now. I actually have a large collection of Craftsman midget and ignition wrenches that I think covers every decade since the 50s. I spent awhile buying them up a couple years ago as I found them, so that I could directly compare the change in quality of the wrenches over time.
I haven't had the chance to do this head-to-head comparison yet, but I can tell you qualitatively that the quality didn't waiver very much until the made-in-China ones that are currently being sold. At that point, there is a drastic and sharp decline in quality, and there's no way I'd buy the current ones. The only reason I did buy them was to do the comparison. For science!
Perhaps. The Craftsman regularly go on sale for about $99, and there are often additional Sears coupons you can layer on top to bring the price down to $90 or even $85 for the 48-piece set. The 39-piece Tekton set appears to be about $59.50 on Amazon and seems to have dropped as low as $44 at one point, so the cost-per-piece is cheaper for the Tekton set. Maybe that is a better deal, I'm not sure, as I haven't tried the Tekton set and it wasn't on my radar when I bought the Craftsman set.
One does not have to arrive at fancy shiny wall decor nor expensive in all things to reach nirvana in tools.
My boss and I certianly pay less than expensive for most tools we use.
Then beat them without pity on any job so we get paid.
I prefer ugly used tools. Scraping them on the floor frequently polishes them up in a month.
My boss and I certianly pay less than expensive for most tools we use.
Then beat them without pity on any job so we get paid.
I prefer ugly used tools. Scraping them on the floor frequently polishes them up in a month.
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
The Chinese Craftsman screwdrivers are terrible. The handles have hard edges and are no where near as comfortable as the PR or WF handles. The metal also seems to be weaker.
OHMS LAW
Well-known member
It’s Funny. The guys with the cheap tools always want to borrow a snap on socket or wrench
At work. I always do because some times I need to borrow one of their beater tools. But for
The most part it’s about,for me, how well does it fit on a fastener or fitting. There is room in my box for the Cheap china tools. But as mentioned before no way I’m paying craftsman prices for junk comparable to the crappy HF offerings
At work. I always do because some times I need to borrow one of their beater tools. But for
The most part it’s about,for me, how well does it fit on a fastener or fitting. There is room in my box for the Cheap china tools. But as mentioned before no way I’m paying craftsman prices for junk comparable to the crappy HF offerings
Not my experience at all.
I've got both the Chinese versions and WF versions of the classic clear handled ones right in front of me. They feel exactly the same in my hands. Metal seems the same as well.
Have you actually used these, or just held them in a store, or just going by hearsay?
There are probably a lot of scenarios one person can't imagine outside of one's own experiences.
I have plenty of high-quality tools for the garage. However, I have a completely different set of tools for when I go racing. At the race track, I can't take everything, so I need to take tools that can be beaten on and [ab]used in the wrong way; like a screwdriver as a pry bar or an adjustable wrench as a hammer. I also don't want to worry as much if the tools walk away from other drivers borrowing them, or getting lost in the grassy paddock. At the same time though, if a tool breaks, that can mean missing a race. So, I don't want just cheap Harbor Freight stuff most of the time.
A lot of the decent Craftsman tools fill this role for me pretty well.
Ok, thanks.
So in scope of my question ... might I summarize? It seems that the fact that Craftsman is now made in China makes them bad. On the single fact of not made in USA makes them worthless tools. This is obviously more personal preference vs factual reasoning.
When a more logical reasoning approach comes in, it appears that the answer is not so definitive. It is yes and no. In some cases, the China CMAN is appearing to be the same (or possibly better) than its USA counterpart. In other cases, it has some tangible reasons making it worse. I believe people here have provided enough "proof" to show both sides as I state.
I really do believe it would be a great service to the GJ community to do as I suggested and provide a Craftsman "good and bad" list, as well as providing a list of brands / manufacturers that provide a quality tool whilst avoiding the prices and business ethic of Snap On... I say this while also agreeing that the Snap Offs are of a better quality, but said quality may never be seen by one who wrenches daily. But when one sees the difference, it makes all the difference.
When a more logical reasoning approach comes in, it appears that the answer is not so definitive. It is yes and no. In some cases, the China CMAN is appearing to be the same (or possibly better) than its USA counterpart. In other cases, it has some tangible reasons making it worse. I believe people here have provided enough "proof" to show both sides as I state.
I really do believe it would be a great service to the GJ community to do as I suggested and provide a Craftsman "good and bad" list, as well as providing a list of brands / manufacturers that provide a quality tool whilst avoiding the prices and business ethic of Snap On... I say this while also agreeing that the Snap Offs are of a better quality, but said quality may never be seen by one who wrenches daily. But when one sees the difference, it makes all the difference.
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Yes, this is a very valid response. Although 4000 is a bit of an overstatement, it is really more like 3999.
My intent here was to get some fact behind the change from Craftsman USA to Craftsman China. People are quick to say that Craftsman is now poor quality since the change to China. This could be the case, but please place some facts on it. It seems that just the fact that "Made in USA" is not there brings a prejudging of "it *****".
I can understand that there are some people who will only buy made in USA products. That is all good and perfectly acceptable. But for those who actually care about the quality of the product, COO is not an end all to this. As an example, there are plenty of quality Taiwan tools that will outlast USA made tools. It all depends on what specifically you buy.
So my question is and was more simplistic ... are China Craftsman tools really that much worse than those Craftsman tools made in USA ... based simply and solely on the fact of COO? It appears that answer is no, there are some that are worse and some that are the same, if not better. If Craftsman gives China a certain specification and that spec is not met, said products would be rejected, or at least I would hope. This would then mean that Craftsman is giving China substandard specs, if the quality is actually less than the USA counterparts.